The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Countertrey wrote:I do find it interesting that we are hearing "LCL" tear, when it was the Medial Collateral ligament that was so stretched in that attempt to handle the bad snap. whaddupwidat???

I'll tell ya whaddup .... our Franchise QB was playing on a 2nd degree LCL, and he probably damaged/tore an acl or an mcl or both, because of it.

That's why it is hush-hush on the MRI results today, and why the big Boss is going to Florida to see the Doc with RG3 tomorrow, to get the straight dope on the situation because he no longer trusts that he'll get the straight scoop from the Shan-knee-gate crew, or, he already knows how bad it is, and is going with RG3 as morale support to help him with coping with terrible news.

And if my suspicions are correct (and I pray to God I'm wrong), he may be looking at significant reconstructive surgery and at best, at least a full year of rehab, meaning, bye-bye RG3 for 2013, or, God forbid, worse.

This is starting to smell really bad ... really, really bad. And you can ask my wife, I was screaming at the television yesterday after it was clear he had suffered more damage in the 1st QT ... probably an ACL tear when he tried pulling up on that roll out. I told her that he needed to be taken out of the game right then and there to prevent further damage, and possibly career threatening damage. I was livid and I just couldn't believe that they'd keep him out there the way he was limping and dragging that leg.

That ugly last fall was just the awkward position he was in trying to retrieve that bad snap, but the damage was caused much earlier in the game.

And somebody ought to slap Synder too, for that horrifically terrible field condition.

I swear, this organization could foul up a good rock fight .... and make the Three Stooges look like the Three Geniuses.

welch wrote:One side note: Dan Snyder is flying to Pensacola with Robert Griffin. As many bad things as I have said about The Danny (and thought worse), this seems like just the right time and way for the owner to be involved.

Meanwhile, I'm not guessing about the degree of injury. Better to wait until Dr Andrews has finished the examination. It's not like my guessing matters.

If Kirk Cousins is the starter for a season, so be it. We will keep Robert GRiffin III in our thoughts, and hail the Redskins.

Oh well? C'est la vie ? No use crying over spilled milk? You've got to be joking right? Please tell me I'm not the only one on this god forsaken board that thinks some responsible adult heads should roll for this grossly negligent debacle?

Look ... this isn't just a case of "injuries happen". This is a case of the entire world watching and wondering what the heck these knuckle-heads were thinking by leaving him out there like a one legged tackling dummy, and risking his entire career, when anyone with something other than air between their ears could see he needed to be pulled out.

Look .... oh what the heck ... never mind ... I'm stuck in an alternate universe, or the twilight zone, and I'm just talking to myself.

If Adrian Peterson can get his knee totally reconstructed in early January, and be back (with a vengeance) the following season, why is RGIII going to have to miss all of next season? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm asking a serious question. Hasn't Dr. Andrews made some kind of new breakthroughs in these procedures?

RayNAustin wrote:

welch wrote:One side note: Dan Snyder is flying to Pensacola with Robert Griffin. As many bad things as I have said about The Danny (and thought worse), this seems like just the right time and way for the owner to be involved.

Meanwhile, I'm not guessing about the degree of injury. Better to wait until Dr Andrews has finished the examination. It's not like my guessing matters.

If Kirk Cousins is the starter for a season, so be it. We will keep Robert GRiffin III in our thoughts, and hail the Redskins.

Oh well? C'est la vie ? No use crying over spilled milk? You've got to be joking right? Please tell me I'm not the only one on this god forsaken board that thinks some responsible adult heads should roll for this grossly negligent debacle?

Look ... this isn't just a case of "injuries happen". This is a case of the entire world watching and wondering what the heck these knuckle-heads were thinking by leaving him out there like a one legged tackling dummy, and risking his entire career, when anyone with something other than air between their ears could see he needed to be pulled out.

Look .... oh what the heck ... never mind ... I'm stuck in an alternate universe, or the twilight zone, and I'm just talking to myself.

I'm pissed off too brother... But what's to happen? Fire Shanny for trusting his qb when he says he's got this don't take him out, and the drs clear him after he left in the first half? Or do we cut Rgiii for being stubborn and not upfront about his status? Blame game, point fingers? Fire everyone?
It's pointless to think about the what ifs.. and worse to stay upset about it.

I'm on the positive, pray for the knee, tip... Let's get RGiii to APs house and make friends. AP should be his new brother from another mother during this time.. I'm talkin same drs same rehab trainers etc... He is a freak like AP and can beat this injury even the worst case scenarios.
HAIL to RGiii god bless the knee!

I dont think you can fire Shanny for this but any extension should be taken off the table for sure. I agree with Ray.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but what if the worst is found to be true and RG3 will need "full-blow reconstructive surgery?"

I know they said he would miss the 2013 season but what does that mean about his career/ability/running speed?

HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed, but what if the worst is found to be true and RG3 will need "full-blow reconstructive surgery?"

I know they said he would miss the 2013 season but what does that mean about his career/ability/running speed?

Ask AP....

Deadskins wrote:If Adrian Peterson can get his knee totally reconstructed in early January, and be back (with a vengeance) the following season, why is RGIII going to have to miss all of next season? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm asking a serious question. Hasn't Dr. Andrews made some kind of new breakthroughs in these procedures?

Well....I dont know if he has the same body...different bodies are built different....I believe he has the same drive and ethic and commitment as AP....How long did it take his FIRST time? This is the SECOND time. He better do more squats and leg workouts then doing commercials and promoting your "brand"....If he dont it wont be long before hes done and spit out.

Deadskins wrote:If Adrian Peterson can get his knee totally reconstructed in early January, and be back (with a vengeance) the following season, why is RGIII going to have to miss all of next season? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm asking a serious question. Hasn't Dr. Andrews made some kind of new breakthroughs in these procedures?

He's already had one ACL reconstruction .... and there are slight physical differences between RG3 and Peterson ... as in Peterson's legs are about the size of RG3's waist, for one.

And you didn't see Peterson sent back out and finish the Redskin game trying to play on the damaged knee, either.

I'm only speculating (and I hope I'm wrong), but normally, if there is damage shown in an MRI, they just come out and say so ... without all of the cloak and dagger secrecy and this lets wait for a second opinion stuff. That tells me there is serious damage, and they didn't like the diagnosis.

It's just worrying based on the unusual secrecy. The news cannot be good, or they'd serve up a little feel good to take the heat off Shanahan.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed, but what if the worst is found to be true and RG3 will need "full-blow reconstructive surgery?"

I know they said he would miss the 2013 season but what does that mean about his career/ability/running speed?

Ask AP....

Excellent point. Seems that people were amazed at his recovery. Or was that moreso the amazement of how quickly he recovered? In other words is full recovery typical with variations on total time?

Granted, I know I'm asking questions people can't really answer, but if there's a much higher margin of players to fully recover and do great things again, I'd feel more relaxed

cleg wrote:I dont think you can fire Shanny for this but any extension should be taken off the table for sure. I agree with Ray.

Sorry Cleg ... you're going to have to get tougher than that if you wish to agree with me. I told my wife toward the middle of the 2nd QT, that if I were Snyder, I'd have sent word down to Shanahan that if I saw RG3 limping back out onto the field one more series, that I'd have security escort him and his son off the premises, and hand over the game to Haslett to finish.

Ive had MRIs and I know (but may have gotten better) that MRIs are tough to read when the swelling is still there and that HAS to be gone before they go in to fix it....I think the results were cloudy today......Just keep him away from Black and Cedric....he dont need any PEDs. On that note, we need a RT....

RayNAustin wrote:

cleg wrote:I dont think you can fire Shanny for this but any extension should be taken off the table for sure. I agree with Ray.

Sorry Cleg ... you're going to have to get tougher than that if you wish to agree with me. I told my wife toward the middle of the 2nd QT, that if I were Snyder, I'd have sent word down to Shanahan that if I saw RG3 limping back out onto the field one more series, that I'd have security escort him and his son off the premises, and hand over the game to Haslett to finish.

I would have locked the door to the dressingroom when he went in there

Deadskins wrote:If Adrian Peterson can get his knee totally reconstructed in early January, and be back (with a vengeance) the following season, why is RGIII going to have to miss all of next season? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm asking a serious question. Hasn't Dr. Andrews made some kind of new breakthroughs in these procedures?

I would say AP is actually still healing - believe it or not.

Andrews is evidently the best. Griff may have 3 tears and a bone bruise. I hope not.

I happen to pretty much agree with Ray Ray.

Shanny should have shown more faith in Kirk and thought more about Griff's future. I understand this is easy for me to say.

Deadskins wrote:If Adrian Peterson can get his knee totally reconstructed in early January, and be back (with a vengeance) the following season, why is RGIII going to have to miss all of next season? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm asking a serious question. Hasn't Dr. Andrews made some kind of new breakthroughs in these procedures?

Dunno how I missed this... But damn we think alike, my only thought has been "he better tweet to ap or something ASAP!"

Burgundy&Wha? wrote:Just heard a radio report that said it was torn ACL & PCL. He's out 14-18 months, but hoping for a second opinion.

I'm not too happy that he continued to play yesterday. The coaches can be faulted. RG III, himself, can be faulted to a degree. To hear him in his presser yesterday, he didn't feel the team could win without him. You have to have faith in your teammates. Hand the reins over to Cousins when you're limping like that. It's not like he had an a$$ like Jay Schroeder behind him.

I heard "partial" tear.....but what do i know..??? How long did it take AP to get back to normal?

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

welch wrote:One side note: Dan Snyder is flying to Pensacola with Robert Griffin. As many bad things as I have said about The Danny (and thought worse), this seems like just the right time and way for the owner to be involved.

Meanwhile, I'm not guessing about the degree of injury. Better to wait until Dr Andrews has finished the examination. It's not like my guessing matters.

If Kirk Cousins is the starter for a season, so be it. We will keep Robert GRiffin III in our thoughts, and hail the Redskins.

Oh well? C'est la vie ? No use crying over spilled milk? You've got to be joking right? Please tell me I'm not the only one on this god forsaken board that thinks some responsible adult heads should roll for this grossly negligent debacle?

Look ... this isn't just a case of "injuries happen". This is a case of the entire world watching and wondering what the heck these knuckle-heads were thinking by leaving him out there like a one legged tackling dummy, and risking his entire career, when anyone with something other than air between their ears could see he needed to be pulled out.

Look .... oh what the heck ... never mind ... I'm stuck in an alternate universe, or the twilight zone, and I'm just talking to myself.

I'm pissed off too brother... But what's to happen? Fire Shanny for trusting his qb when he says he's got this don't take him out, and the drs clear him after he left in the first half? Or do we cut Rgiii for being stubborn and not upfront about his status? Blame game, point fingers? Fire everyone?
It's pointless to think about the what ifs.. and worse to stay upset about it.

I'm on the positive, pray for the knee, tip... Let's get RGiii to APs house and make friends. AP should be his new brother from another mother during this time.. I'm talkin same drs same rehab trainers etc... He is a freak like AP and can beat this injury even the worst case scenarios.
HAIL to RGiii god bless the knee!

Look my friend, I was just watching on TV and I could see the kid needed to come out. If this had been a fight in Vegas, they would have stopped it.

Shanahan is an experienced coach, and he knows that players lie about the degree of pain and injury, and won't say anything other than I'm fine. Heck, that's what RG3 said in the post game presser ... "hows the knee" .. "it's fine".

RG3 is the player ... Shanahan is the coach ... the players don't make those decisions, the Coach does ... and he could see everything I could see and more ... and the responsibility of the head coach to not jeopardize either a player's health or best interests of the team (both short and long term interests) ... and in this case, Shanahan's poor judgement happened to fail at all three of those responsibilities.

Perhaps I should remind (or inform as the case may be) that Shanahan once sent out Terrell Davis (while he was suffering migraine headaches and virtually could not see) as a decoy in the Super Bowl against the Packers?

I laugh when I hear this talk that Shanahan would never .. blah, blah, blah .... when he already has.

RG3 has a torn ACL but extent of damage not yet determined--could be extremely serious. I feel sick.

crazyhorse1 wrote:RG3 has a torn ACL but extent of damage not yet determined--could be extremely serious. I feel sick.

They were just saying on Sportsnet that there have been players out there who have had reconstructive knee surgery as many as seven times and have come back to full strength.

This whole thing started from a freak play. There could me many more of these freak plays, or this could simply have been an isolated issue in his professional career.

I'd rather these thoroughly handle this situation even if it means sitting him out for 2013. This is a better option than to go through this again and again until he can't play at all.

I think he will continue to learn and become more and more careful. Many believe if he can't run he looses his edge. I don't buy this for one second. Better receivers, longer protection from the line, and an even more improved arm and he's just as dangerous as ever.

I don't believe he will ever stop running which means he will never stop getting hit. Some training on when to slide by gauging defender distance and running out of bounds in time before a hit would lower his risk greatly.

Brian Mitchel said it perfectly "get an offensive line that lets you run your backs anyway you want and you don't have to worry about RG3 having to run to get yardage."

Here's my large wish list:
1. POWERFUL offensive line
2. 3 POWERFUL WRs (Garcon is one of them)
3. 2 running threats; RB & a strong blocking FB
4. Use RG3's elusiveness to avoid sacks and get just a few yards on a run

Guess I'm asking for a new offense but isn't that the point? For us to continue to upgrade more and more whether through conditioning current players or getting new ones?

That said, I don't think we will be able to dial down RG3 until its too late. How do you tame and keep the wild? Not going to be easy...glad its not me who has to figure it out.

[[/quote]


Here's my large wish list:
1. POWERFUL offensive line
2. 3 POWERFUL WRs (Garcon is one of them)
3. 2 running threats; RB & a strong blocking FB
4. Use RG3's elusiveness to avoid sacks and get just a few yards on a run

I agree and those have been needs for years. Yes I am concerned about RGIII , but I have faith that he , the coaching staff and his Dr.s will make the right decisions. If he sits out a season then we continue building and get Cousins some experience-that is a win in my book.

[/quote]
Guess I'm asking for a new offense but isn't that the point? For us to continue to upgrade more and more whether through conditioning current players or getting new ones?

[/quote] I think a new offense is PRECISELY the point. What we have been doing isn't working. Let's build. Let's Win. Let's restore pride.

Shanahan also sent Terrell Davis back into the Super Bowl as a decoy when HE COULD NOT SEE from a migrane/concussion. He does not care at all about these guys, only his own ego and legacy.

crazyhorse1 wrote:RG3 has a torn ACL but extent of damage not yet determined--could be extremely serious. I feel sick.

Did I miss a report some where? I know the press conference would lead some to grieve that there is at least a partial tear of the ACL or LCL or both, but NOTHING has come out saying what is actually wrong with his knee because the Doctors don't even know yet. They may suspect something, but they don't know anything yet.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:RG3 has a torn ACL but extent of damage not yet determined--could be extremely serious. I feel sick.

Did I miss a report some where? I know the press conference would lead some to grieve that there is at least a partial tear of the ACL or LCL or both, but NOTHING has come out saying what is actually wrong with his knee because the Doctors don't even know yet. They may suspect something, but they don't know anything yet.

The Washington Post and CSN Washington have a report of partial tears but not sure if they are old or new - not sure why that matters.

Plenty of emotion round here, and understandably so. It's at times like this that I prefer not to post for a day or two. Everything is speculation right now - speculation based on what has been said, and speculation based on what hasn't been said. Personally, I'm trying to brace for the worst possible news (well, not the very worst possible - that would be career ending injury), and expecting not to see RGIII in the huddle again until 2014. If we get to see him starting in week one next season, a very large bullet will have been dodged by us, by Shanahan, by the Redskins medical staff, and by RGIII. I'm not speaking from hindsight when I say that I wanted RGIII taken out of the game at halftime on Sunday. Every movement he tried to make was uncomfortable for me, and probably excruciating for him. I like to think that if I'd been in Shanahan's shoes, I'd have had the courage/sense to take #10 out, and brought in Cousins.

I'd have taken that decision based on having a duty of care for the player, and an obligation not to take UNNECESSARY risks with his health. Yes, there are risks for every player on every play, but that does not give coaches a get out of jail free card when making decisions like this.

Not only that, my decision would have been based on my belief that RGIII's standard of play was well below normal. Yes, there were a couple of drops, but a number of his throws just weren't on target. With his performance against Cleveland, Cousins had earned the right to be trusted with the job in the second half. I'll go further than that, and say that if it had been Rex Grossman dressed on the sideline instead of Cousins, I'd have sent Rex in. A gamble in terms of trying to win the game, but so was keeping Griffin in the game. And it would have removed the foolish gamble with RGIII's health.

Just my opinion. And as I said, believe me that this isn't just hindsight.

Shanahan has stated that he'll probably second guess his decisions, and he'd be right to. I think he got this wrong.

UK Skins Fan wrote:Plenty of emotion round here, and understandably so. It's at times like this that I prefer not to post for a day or two. Everything is speculation right now - speculation based on what has been said, and speculation based on what hasn't been said. Personally, I'm trying to brace for the worst possible news (well, not the very worst possible - that would be career ending injury), and expecting not to see RGIII in the huddle again until 2014. If we get to see him starting in week one next season, a very large bullet will have been dodged by us, by Shanahan, by the Redskins medical staff, and by RGIII. I'm not speaking from hindsight when I say that I wanted RGIII taken out of the game at halftime on Sunday. Every movement he tried to make was uncomfortable for me, and probably excruciating for him. I like to think that if I'd been in Shanahan's shoes, I'd have had the courage/sense to take #10 out, and brought in Cousins.

I'd have taken that decision based on having a duty of care for the player, and an obligation not to take UNNECESSARY risks with his health. Yes, there are risks for every player on every play, but that does not give coaches a get out of jail free card when making decisions like this.

Not only that, my decision would have been based on my belief that RGIII's standard of play was well below normal. Yes, there were a couple of drops, but a number of his throws just weren't on target. With his performance against Cleveland, Cousins had earned the right to be trusted with the job in the second half. I'll go further than that, and say that if it had been Rex Grossman dressed on the sideline instead of Cousins, I'd have sent Rex in. A gamble in terms of trying to win the game, but so was keeping Griffin in the game. And it would have removed the foolish gamble with RGIII's health.

Just my opinion. And as I said, believe me that this isn't just hindsight.

Shanahan has stated that he'll probably second guess his decisions, and he'd be right to. I think he got this wrong.

Nicely said - completely agree.
I too am bracing myself for 2014 as the next time we see RGIII on the field. Also bracing myself for a year of "told you so's" by fans of other teams.

I like Russel Wilson, he seems like a good kid and I certainly do not want to see him hurt but I sure would like for him to fall flat on his face vs Atlanta so we can stop hearing about how he is so much better than RGIII and Luck.