Luck?

[riggofan]

I've been impressed with Andrew Luck the couple times I've seen him play. I think there is probably an argument to be made that the Redskins have more offensive talent around RGIII than Luck has. But I think you can also argue that Luck has played a lot more like a rookie this year, even if he is a very talented rookie.

Is it that Griffin has the better supporting cast, or that Griffin makes his supporting cast better?

Probably a little bit of both. I don't think Luck has the WRs or the RB that RGIII does, do you?

[crazyhorse1]

Is it that Griffin has the better supporting cast, or that Griffin makes his supporting cast better?

Probably a little bit of both. I don't think Luck has the WRs or the RB that RGIII does, do you?

If Luck had a good running back the Colts wouldn't be passing every down and we wouldn't be hearing so much of Luck. Comparing him with RG3 is absurd. You simply don't compare a quarterback with a 104 Rat with a quarterback with a 75 RAT, especially when the former quarterback is probably the best running quarterback in history and setting rushing records as well as passing records.

[emoses14]

Probably a little bit of both. I don't think Luck has the WRs or the RB that RGIII does, do you?

If Luck had a good running back the Colts wouldn't be passing every down and we wouldn't be hearing so much of Luck. Comparing him with RG3 is absurd. You simply don't compare a quarterback with a 104 Rat with a quarterback with a 75 RAT, especially when the former quarterback is probably the best running quarterback in history and setting rushing records as well as passing records.

Crazy horse speakum the truth. I'm not offended by the comparison, but it really doesn't make sense to me. The rookie qb having the best season is griffin.

[Bob 0119]

Is it that Griffin has the better supporting cast, or that Griffin makes his supporting cast better?

Probably a little bit of both. I don't think Luck has the WRs or the RB that RGIII does, do you?

I think if teams were more afraid of Andrew Luck, they'd have a better running game. Since teams have to worry about not just Morris running but also Griffin it opens up the passing game especially with how effectively Griffin sells play-action.

[riggofan]

I'm sure that's true. But I swear during the draft all we heard was that people underestimated what an athlete Luck was, and he was supposed to be nearly as mobile as RGIII.

Also I was going to add that we heard a lot this season about how Morris looked a lot better because of RGIII. Didn't the Browns game kind of squash that argument? Morris looked pretty damn good with Cousins under center.

[DarthMonk]

Also I was going to add that we heard a lot this season about how Morris looked a lot better because of RGIII. Didn't the Browns game kind of squash that argument? Morris looked pretty damn good with Cousins under center.

There was a lot of talk by the "pundits" about how Morris' "subpar" performance vs the Browns showed how much his success depends on Griff. I think it's not so much that he has Griff but more that he has Not Rex.

When Rex played we ran boots and the defense TOTALLY DISREGARDED HIM. If he made a good fake and bootlegged to an open field all an edge defender had to do was stop, turn around, and catch him (maybe even get a batted ball or fumble as part of the deal). We were literally playing 10 against 11 with Rex.

With Griff not only can defenses not disregard him - they have to dedicate a man to him and if they don't they are in trouble. Someone simply must stay home on the backside and that one guy usually cannot get the job done. Thus, with Griff, we play 11 against 11 or maybe even 10 against 10 or 10 against 9.

When the Captain played against Cleveland they started off playing him like Rex. They stacked the box and we were playing 10 against 11. Morris mostly got stuffed. But then the boots came and the Captain made them pay the way Rex almost never did. And when they finally kept a guy home it wasn't enough. That was the play when Hank got his 2nd TD.

DarthMonk

[SkinsJock]

There was a lot of talk by the "pundits" about how Morris' "subpar" performance vs the Browns showed how much his success depends on Griff. I think it's not so much that he has Griff but more that he has Not Rex.

When Rex played we ran boots and the defense TOTALLY DISREGARDED HIM. If he made a good fake and bootlegged to an open field all an edge defender had to do was stop, turn around, and catch him (maybe even get a batted ball or fumble as part of the deal). We were literally playing 10 against 11 with Rex.

With Griff not only can defenses not disregard him - they have to dedicate a man to him and if they don't they are in trouble. Someone simply must stay home on the backside and that one guy usually cannot get the job done. Thus, with Griff, we play 11 against 11 or maybe even 10 against 10 or 10 against 9.

When the Captain played against Cleveland they started off playing him like Rex. They stacked the box and we were playing 10 against 11. Morris mostly got stuffed. But then the boots came and the Captain made them pay the way Rex almost never did. And when they finally kept a guy home it wasn't enough. That was the play when Hank got his 2nd TD.

DarthMonk

DISAGREE our offense is completely different this season than last

looking at that 1 game and coming up with that is just BS

The Browns run defense is a little better than you're giving them credit for

there have been many instances this season when defenses were trying to stop Morris and could not

Alfred Morris plays VERY hard no matter who is playing QB
I hope we don't have to see Rex on the field but even if we did it would NOT be anything near as bad as last season

[DarthMonk]

There was a lot of talk by the "pundits" about how Morris' "subpar" performance vs the Browns showed how much his success depends on Griff. I think it's not so much that he has Griff but more that he has Not Rex.

When Rex played we ran boots and the defense TOTALLY DISREGARDED HIM. If he made a good fake and bootlegged to an open field all an edge defender had to do was stop, turn around, and catch him (maybe even get a batted ball or fumble as part of the deal). We were literally playing 10 against 11 with Rex.

With Griff not only can defenses not disregard him - they have to dedicate a man to him and if they don't they are in trouble. Someone simply must stay home on the backside and that one guy usually cannot get the job done. Thus, with Griff, we play 11 against 11 or maybe even 10 against 10 or 10 against 9.

When the Captain played against Cleveland they started off playing him like Rex. They stacked the box and we were playing 10 against 11. Morris mostly got stuffed. But then the boots came and the Captain made them pay the way Rex almost never did. And when they finally kept a guy home it wasn't enough. That was the play when Hank got his 2nd TD.

DarthMonk

DISAGREE

Wrongly.

our offense is completely different this season than last

Simply not true. We've added stuff but we run tons of the same stuff. In fact, I heard the Captain himself say they essentially ran last year's playbook against the Browns.

looking at that 1 game and coming up with that is just BS

I've watched every game since Kyle became OC - and pretty much every game since 1972.

The Browns run defense is a little better than you're giving them credit for

there have been many instances this season when defenses were trying to stop Morris and could not

The fact is they stacked the box like no team has all year because they thought they could get away with it.

Alfred Morris plays VERY hard no matter who is playing QB

Duh.

I hope we don't have to see Rex on the field but even if we did it would NOT be anything near as bad as last season

Perhaps, but it would be way worse than what you just saw. We'd play 10 against 11 all day - and not make them pay - just like the last few YEARS!

Pretty weak post (by you) SJ. Sorry, but it was.

Other than this opinion ...

I think it's not so much that he has Griff but more that he has Not Rex.

... which I back up with thoughtful analysis, please point out one item from my original post which is not a fact.

Oops. I shoulda stayed home!

DarthMonk

[riggofan]

Also I was going to add that we heard a lot this season about how Morris looked a lot better because of RGIII. Didn't the Browns game kind of squash that argument? Morris looked pretty damn good with Cousins under center.

There was a lot of talk by the "pundits" about how Morris' "subpar" performance vs the Browns showed how much his success depends on Griff. I think it's not so much that he has Griff but more that he has Not Rex.

I'm noting that you used quotes on subpar, so I'm guessing you're not in agreement. 87 yards and 2 TDs, right?

[DarthMonk]

Also I was going to add that we heard a lot this season about how Morris looked a lot better because of RGIII. Didn't the Browns game kind of squash that argument? Morris looked pretty damn good with Cousins under center.

There was a lot of talk by the "pundits" about how Morris' "subpar" performance vs the Browns showed how much his success depends on Griff. I think it's not so much that he has Griff but more that he has Not Rex.

I'm noting that you used quotes on subpar, so I'm guessing you're not in agreement. 87 yards and 2 TDs, right?

Of course. And the "pundits" are so smart!



PS - but he was stuffed early for the reasons I point out.

[riggofan]

Yeah that's true. I'd bet the Browns kept Morris to his lowest yards per carry all year.

[emoses14]

Yet another reason why Wilson should have no shot at ROY. We all know their win over the packers was rubbish, now so to apparently was their game against Chicago

NFL admitted to the Bears after their 23-17 overtime loss to Seattle in Week 13 that game officials had erred by not calling two offensive pass interference penalties committed by Seahawks receivers. Both uncalled penalties occurred on drives that resulted in Seattle touchdowns, including the winning score in overtime.

I'm not necessarily taking anything away from Russell Wilson, but a large part of his candidacy for ROY rests on his team's record, a record inflated by 2 games, 2 games which if not blatantly called asininely would have them at 8-7, fighting for a wild card and behind the redskins.

[SkinsJock]

Stating that Rex would not have success playing QB with this offense, this year is just an opinion that I totally disagree with

I have very little respect for Rex as a QB but there is NO WAY you can point to how badly he would do with this offense

ACTUALLY - that statement makes a lot of your reasonable comments VERY questionable - in my opinion, of course ... SORRY

[DarthMonk]

Stating that Rex would not have success playing QB with this offense, this year is just an opinion that I totally disagree with

Did someone make such a statement?

I have very little respect for Rex as a QB but there is NO WAY you can point to how badly he would do with this offense

To whom are you referring?

ACTUALLY - that statement makes a lot of your reasonable comments VERY questionable - in my opinion, of course ... SORRY

What statement?

If you are referring to my post, it was all about Morris benefiting from a QB who can make defenses pay for ignoring him (the QB) in a way Rex rarely could when they ignored him. You might want to read the post again.

Again, other than this opinion ...

I think it's not so much that he (Morris) has Griff but more that he (Morris) has Not Rex.

... which I back up with thoughtful analysis, please point out one item from my original post which is not a fact.

Feel free to quote the post.

[funsho2]

if luck wins ......its fixed

[Countertrey]

Of course, there is no way to prove it... but I doubt, very much, that this team would be fighting for a Division championship were Luck our quarterback... yes, our record would have been better... but we'd probably be in the 6-7 win range. We won several games purely because of RG3's very unique skills.

[Deadskins]

Of course, there is no way to prove it... but I doubt, very much, that this team would be fighting for a Division championship were Luck our quarterback... yes, our record would have been better... but we'd probably be in the 6-7 win range. We won several games purely because of RG3's very unique skills.

^^ This.

[yupchagee]

Stating that Rex would not have success playing QB with this offense, this year is just an opinion that I totally disagree with

I have very little respect for Rex as a QB but there is NO WAY you can point to how badly he would do with this offense
ACTUALLY - that statement makes a lot of your reasonable comments VERY questionable - in my opinion, of course ... SORRY

As far as I know, there is NO offense in which Rex can do well.

[emoses14]

Stating that Rex would not have success playing QB with this offense, this year is just an opinion that I totally disagree with

I have very little respect for Rex as a QB but there is NO WAY you can point to how badly he would do with this offense
ACTUALLY - that statement makes a lot of your reasonable comments VERY questionable - in my opinion, of course ... SORRY

As far as I know, there is NO offense in which Rex can do well.

This is fact.

[Bob 0119]

Andrew Luck and his Colts did turn things around this season but the schedule makers have helped a lot.

The Redskins opponents are a combined 111-113-1
The Colts opponents are a combined 95-130

The Redskins have faced 7 teams with a record of .500 or better and won four of those games
The Colts have faced 5 teams with a record of .500 or better and won two of those games

The Redskins have played three games vs opponents with double-digit losses and won all three
The Colts have played eight games vs opponents with double-digit losses and are 7-1 (that's 7 of their 10 wins for those keeping score)

For all that, the Colts have one more win than the Redskins but there is a real possibility the teams could have the same record by tomorrow. The key difference would be the Redskins would be division champs.

I would be VERY surprised if Luck gets RoY over RGIII but since it is voted on by the media, anything's possible

[1niksder]

Of course, there is no way to prove it... but I doubt, very much, that this team would be fighting for a Division championship were Luck our quarterback... yes, our record would have been better... but we'd probably be in the 6-7 win range. We won several games purely because of RG3's very unique skills.

B/r is trying

In most other years, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson or even Alfred Morris could all have easily won an Offensive Rookie of the Year award. But 2012 is no such year. There will be only one winner, and his name is Robert Griffin III.

First, a look at the passing stats so far for the three front-runners:



Robert Griffin III: 249/375 for 3,100 yards, 8.27 avg, 66.4% completion, 20 TDs, 5 INT, 104.1 Rating

Russell Wilson: 237/374 for 2,868 yards, 7.67 avg, 63.4% completion, 25 TDs, 10 INT, 98.0 Rating

Andrew Luck: 325/599 for 4,183 yards, 6.98 avg, 54.3% completion, 21 TDs, 18 INT, 75.6 Rating

...

In this case, I think Griffin is highly deserving of his Pro Bowl trip, among a slew of other awards he should be given in the very near future.

Over the course of the year, no single rookie has been such a consistently dominant force in every game. Luck, Wilson? Both have had multiple bad games. I challenge you to find RGIII's bad game.

...

Griffin has yet to post a multi-interception game, whereas Luck has posted five such games and Wilson two. Now you could say that's because Luck throws the ball more and has to play a different style, but Wilson has one less attempt on the year than Griffin.

First off, I don't believe that Luck is as big a threat to Griffin winning Offensive Rookie of the Year as Wilson. In the past four games, Luck has completed less than 50 percent of his passes. Yes he's racking up yards, but he hasn't been nearly as dominant of a player as Griffin or Wilson.

Just to be clear, Luck has been phenomenal for the Colts this season. He has led four fourth quarter comebacks (and seven game-winning drives) to Griffin's three, but while he's produced some big wins, I don't think he's played at the level of either Griffin or Wilson. He's a high-volume passer which is where he gets all the yards, but that's what the Colts need to succeed.

If we're considering Wilson, the biggest argument for him is that he's led the Seahawks to three straight blowouts, thus entering the conversation for Rookie of the Year. But let's take a look at those games:


ARI (5-10): 7/13 for 148 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
@BUF (5-10): 14/23 for 205 yards, 1 TD, 3 RSH TD
SF (10-4-1): 15/21 for 171 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT



Those three games that everyone says are making the case for him being OROY are similar to the last three games RGIII played when healthy. Although I would say Griffin's numbers are slightly better.


NYG (8-7): 13/21 for 163 yards, 1 TD
@DAL (8-7): 19/27 for 304 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
PHI (4-11): 14/15 for 200 yards, 4 TD (Only second rookie QB to post a "perfect game" in history (Bledsoe))



I think it's fair to consider that a wash. Now let's look at Wilson's single best game of the season. In their big win against New England at home, Wilson went 16-of-27 for 293 and three touchdowns.That's a huge game against a very good team, and Wilson was the reason why they won.

...


I would argue that Griffin and Wilson are very comparable statistically. Outside of his three-interception game against St. Louis, Wilson is very careful with the ball. He's a fairly accurate passer who is more than capable of delivering the big play. However, if you're comparing the two side by side, Griffin is a far greater talent because of his proficiency with the deep ball.

The Seahawks also benefit from having a top-five defense allowing the least points per game (15.5) in the country, with Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner forming one of the better cornerback tandems in the league. Marshawn Lynch has also been an animal once again this season, providing a lot of relief for Wilson in the backfield.

The Redskins, on the other hand, are near the bottom in most defensive categories. While they do have the top rushing attack in the league at 162.3 ypg, Seattle is right behind them at 161.7 ypg.

Bottom line, Wilson has won one more game that Griffin with one more game to play. The Seahawks are guaranteed a wild-card spot, the Redskins are playing for the division tomorrow. Seattle has won six of the last seven, Washington is on a six-game winning streak. Wilson has five games against quality opponents, Griffin has seven (though Seattle has a slightly harder strength of schedule (.504) than Washington (.488)).

...


The Redskin offense does allow Griffin to make easier throws down field mainly because receivers are often wide open. But the reason that happens is because teams are so afraid of Griffin as a runner. The zone-read pulls the linebackers towards the line of scrimmage and leaves the middle of the field open for Pierre Garcon to catch the ball in space.

But if you put either Luck or Wilson into that same offense, I don't believe it would have the same potency. Griffin is an entirely different player when you combine his arm with his running ability. Consider the rushing statistics of the three players:



Robert Griffin III: 114 carries for 752 yards. 6.6 average, 6 TDs

Russell Wilson: 84 carries for 431 yards. 5.1 average, 3 TDs

Andrew Luck: 57 carries for 254 yards. 4.5 average, 5 TDs

Griffin blows the other two out of the water in this category. Again, this is related to the scheme of the Redskins offense, but while they are both athletic in their own right, neither Wilson nor Luck have anywhere near the speed of RGIII that haunts defensive coordinators.

If the Offensive Rookie of the Year Award were based off the best passer in the league, this would be a close race. All three quarterbacks have their own claim to why they are the best passer, even though I still believe Griffin has the strongest case there. But since the award measures the best player rather than passer, the choice is clear.

Robert Griffin III is the best player out of these three and has performed as such. Luck and Wilson are both deserving quarterbacks with blindingly bright futures ahead of them, but right now Griffin is the clear-cut choice.

...

And are pretty convincing

[The Hogster]

The ROTY is RGIII's in my view. The Pro Bowl selection sealed it.

But, I think it's safe to say that Peyton Manning made a good move.

HAIL

[RayNAustin]

I don't think there is any comparison between Luck and RG3, statistically or otherwise .... no knock on Luck, as I think he's had a very good rookie campaign, and he'll likely continue improving each year as one should expect rookie QBs to do. He's got the talent to be a top 10 QB for the next dozen years.

Russell Wilson would be the clear front runner ahead of Luck for ROTY, if you remove RG3 from the equation, as his numbers are tremendous. Unbelievable when you consider that he was an undersized 3RD ROUND PICK .... the biggest steal of the draft among the QBs, who was brought in as a project, but has since surpassed anyone's wildest expectations.

That said, I don't think there is anyone outside Seattle WA, or those not institutionalized who would choose Wilson over RG3, given the choice. But to me, Wilson is a solid runner up to RG3, based on all relative calculations. But this was always a two-horse race between Luck and RG3, before the season even began, and now that we're near the end, with the Colts in the playoffs, and hopefully the Redskins too, it's still a two-horse race, and Wilson will likely finish 3rd.

There should be no doubt (and I'm really being objective ... or trying my best anyway) that RG3 has the significant edge on both Luck and Wilson. Heck ... give RG3 and the Redskins the Seattle Defense this year (they're #1 in points allowed 15+ per game) and the Redskins might be looking to complete a perfect 16-0 season today, instead of fighting for the Division against the Cowboys. We might have had the Division clinched at the buy week!!

Wilson has played remarkably well, and exceeded any reasonable expectation ... but Seattle's defense has carried that team, whereas RG3 has carried the Redskins, and kept them competitive even in the midst of stretches of total defensive implosion.

This recent 6 game winning streak is a perfect example .... the defense as managed (after the buy week) to improve just enough to allow the offense to win games. Still far from solid, they've managed to shore up some of the horrific breakdowns, and cut down on the number of big plays that were killing this team in the first half of the season. Hopefully that trend will continue, and the patient doesn't have a relapse this evening.

[SkinsJock]

There is no way that Andrew Luck wins the NFL ROY award ...

and there is really no way that we can gauge how well or badly Rex would have done with this offense IF he had been used

I could care less - I hope we never see Rex play a game in B&G

and

I am pretty sure that RG3 doesn't play any better nor do the Redskins win any more games or be more successful if he wins any awards
RG3 plays the game to win, NOT to get any awards

btw - I also think he should win the NFL MVP award, but they'll probably think he's 'won' enough awards

[Bob 0119]

There is no way that Andrew Luck wins the NFL ROY award ...

and there is really no way that we can gauge how well or badly Rex would have done with this offense IF he had been used

I could care less - I hope we never see Rex play a game in B&G

and

I am pretty sure that RG3 doesn't play any better nor do the Redskins win any more games or be more successful if he wins any awards
RG3 plays the game to win, NOT to get any awards

btw - I also think he should win the NFL MVP award, but they'll probably think he's 'won' enough awards

With Adrian Peterson and Peyton Manning I'm not thinking RGIII for MVP just yet...depends how far we go