The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Countertrey wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

welch wrote:Oh, and, of course, great story, CT. I'll buy you a carton of chocolate milk next time I see you at Bunker Hill!

Why not just have the milk man drop it off... In a glass bottle?

ahhhh... you had to be there, ckr...

He wasn't born yet that's why he asked the guy that wants to buy you some milk with the interest from your milk money for this

welch wrote:Start with Sonny.

Taylor was a first round pick the season the Skins also drafted Paul Krause. Both in the Hall of Fame. Taylor was ROY as a runner, but also caught about 45 passes.

Converted to WR by Otto Graham (called "Toot" by his players...anagram of "Otto") midway through the '66 season, he might have led the league in receptions in just that half-season. Graham didn't care about running the ball, but his passing attack was a predecessor to the "west coast offense". One difference is that the 49ers never had a set of receivers like Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, and Taylor. Yes, Jerry Rice was g=good, and became famous, but he hardly ever got his uniform dirty. Taylor was a top-rated college player in the last days of two-way football. Could have been a safety, a running back, or a WR.

Taylor was about 6-3 and was listed at 217 pounds...the popular back-field in those days was the "twin big back" formation, based on Jim Taylor and Paul Hornung at Green Bay. Charley Taylor was the "slightly smaller" fullback in the Skins version of the GB formation, but he was also the fastest player on the team. Accustomed to being hit and to blocking, he had great hands as well.

Bobby Mitchell was one of the star half-backs of the late '50s, a guy with speed and moves that shook defenders out of their shoes.

With Mitchell and Taylor both split, and with Sonny throwing it was almost unfair to defensive backs.

Except the Redskins had a tight end, Jerry Smith, who was almost as fast as Mitchell and Taylor, and who specialized in circus catches...the kind where he would leap toward a pile of defenders and catch the ball hanging upside down. Best pass-catching TE I have ever seen.

More on Larry Brown later. Watch Sonny play...the NFL Films video.

TimSkin wrote:

welch wrote:Did you ever see Sonny play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-pre ... Sonny-play

The greatest passer in modern football.

(Start here.)

Very cool video and I take it Coach Allen didn't care for Sonny too much?

Sonny scared George. Have to remember -- know -- that George invented much of modern defensive football when he was defensive coach for the Bears. Figured out how to stop the Lomardi Packers.

First thing George did when he became coach/GM of the Redskins was trade for defensive regulars from his old team, the Rams. Trade first round picks and seconds and anything else to get "Over the Hill" players like Jack Pardee (LB and on-field defensive play-caller) and Richie Petibon (first strong safety...an Allen player all the way back to Allen's Chicago days). Also Myron (Mo) Pottios, MLB, and Maxie Baughan, the third Rams LB...became a coach. Oh, and also the Rams best young DT, Diron Talbert.

Also traded a 2nd round to get Billy Kilmer, who was no longer needed in New Orleans, and Roy Jefferson. Picked up 31-year-old DE Ron McDole, and DE Verlon Biggs, a starter for the Jets one SB champ, but a guy the Jets wouldn't pay fairly.

The defense already had Chris Hanburger at LB, Pat Fischer and Mike Bass at CD, plus Brig Owens as safety. The "Ramskins" understood Allen's defense, and that made the defense as tough as anybody, and much smarter.

Notice that Pardee and Petibon later became defense-oriented coaches, a pair of the best anywhere.

Allen's game-plan amounted to pushing the other team back, grabing fumbles and interceptions, and shortening the field. Allen HATED letting Sonny pass...much preferred Billy at QB because Billy would ruin the simple, predictable plays that Allen wanted. Low risk, no mistakes.

After the '74 season, Allen refused to offer Sonny a contract. Sonny was turning 40, but was as good as ever, though he could no longer throw the ball 90 or 100 yards. They didn't like each other.

Sonny retired, and Allen tried to live with Kilmer and The Kid, young Joe Theisman...picked up from CFL, where he'd gone because the Dolphins (who didn't need a QB) had drafted him. Cost George a first rounder, I think, and turned out well, but later, under Jack Pardee.

Sonny was one of a cluster of great QBs of his time: Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, John Brodie.

If they were Class-A stars and Hall of Famers, Sonny was a Class-A star in a more advanced league. He was that good: so much better that there was Sonny, and below him a group of other all-pros.

The NY press talked about Joe Namath's quick release. People thought of Sonny and smiled. When Dan Marino entered the league, people said, "He's got the quickest release since Sonny".

The ultimate evaluation: when Vince Lombardi signed to coach the Redskins, he offhandedly mentioned that if the Packers had had Sonny Jurgensen, they would never have lost a game.

welch wrote:

TimSkin wrote:

welch wrote:Did you ever see Sonny play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-pre ... Sonny-play

The greatest passer in modern football.

(Start here.)

Very cool video and I take it Coach Allen didn't care for Sonny too much?

Sonny scared George. Have to remember -- know -- that George invented much of modern defensive football when he was defensive coach for the Bears. Figured out how to stop the Lomardi Packers.

First thing George did when he became coach/GM of the Redskins was trade for defensive regulars from his old team, the Rams. Trade first round picks and seconds and anything else to get "Over the Hill" players like Jack Pardee (LB and on-field defensive play-caller) and Richie Petibon (first strong safety...an Allen player all the way back to Allen's Chicago days). Also Myron (Mo) Pottios, MLB, and Maxie Baughan, the third Rams LB...became a coach. Oh, and also the Rams best young DT, Diron Talbert.

Also traded a 2nd round to get Billy Kilmer, who was no longer needed in New Orleans, and Roy Jefferson. Picked up 31-year-old DE Ron McDole, and DE Verlon Biggs, a starter for the Jets one SB champ, but a guy the Jets wouldn't pay fairly.

The defense already had Chris Hanburger at LB, Pat Fischer and Mike Bass at CD, plus Brig Owens as safety. The "Ramskins" understood Allen's defense, and that made the defense as tough as anybody, and much smarter.

Notice that Pardee and Petibon later became defense-oriented coaches, a pair of the best anywhere.

Allen's game-plan amounted to pushing the other team back, grabing fumbles and interceptions, and shortening the field. Allen HATED letting Sonny pass...much preferred Billy at QB because Billy would ruin the simple, predictable plays that Allen wanted. Low risk, no mistakes.

After the '74 season, Allen refused to offer Sonny a contract. Sonny was turning 40, but was as good as ever, though he could no longer throw the ball 90 or 100 yards. They didn't like each other.

Sonny retired, and Allen tried to live with Kilmer and The Kid, young Joe Theisman...picked up from CFL, where he'd gone because the Dolphins (who didn't need a QB) had drafted him. Cost George a first rounder, I think, and turned out well, but later, under Jack Pardee.

Sonny was one of a cluster of great QBs of his time: Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, John Brodie.

If they were Class-A stars and Hall of Famers, Sonny was a Class-A star in a more advanced league. He was that good: so much better that there was Sonny, and below him a group of other all-pros.

The NY press talked about Joe Namath's quick release. People thought of Sonny and smiled. When Dan Marino entered the league, people said, "He's got the quickest release since Sonny".

The ultimate evaluation: when Vince Lombardi signed to coach the Redskins, he offhandedly mentioned that if the Packers had had Sonny Jurgensen, they would never have lost a game.

Thanks for the info Welch I've heard of Pettibon and Pardee but more so in the coaching capacity than the playing. I wish I could've seen Sonny play. Where is a good site I can find some more Sonny highlights?

Next up: Kenny Houston. The Tackle. For those of us old enough, that's all you have to say. Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgEtYlyiLXo

welch wrote:Next up: Kenny Houston. The Tackle. For those of us old enough, that's all you have to say. Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgEtYlyiLXo

Thanks for keeping this at the top Welch.. its kind of busy right now with playoff hopes... But in the off-season until the draft I plan on finding old clips to fill this thread up. Need to see some riggo, sonny, Fischer etc clips to feed my knowledge!