The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

John Keim on why Forbath is doing well and Gano and Cundif didn't do well here

Said this after Kai Forbath’s debut and I’ll say it again: The guy doesn’t worry about any outside factors when he’s kicking, he just kicks. The Redskins used to get frustrated with Graham Gano because of how he’d explain his misses or what he needed to work on. He was a bit detailed (which, of course, we appreciated). Then there was Billy Cundiff, who didn’t like to make excuses but he would always point out and discuss the “timing issues”. But Forbath just kicks. It might be a surprise to many outside the organization that he’s perfect on all 10 attempts, but I think when you know his personality you know he has a good mindset to handle this job. At some point he’ll miss a kick, but given his demeanor he won’t fret about it. The Redskins should be thankful that Cundiff struggled early in his tenure here; they found something much better.

Love Forbath. Yes I think we have found our guy.

[quote="SkinsJock"]I don't want anything

I'm just pointing to the fact that Forbath is a great FG kicker

that ...

needs to become a better kicker off the tee - hate to see him go ...

but

another great kicker will be kicking here if this one doesn't get better at the really easy task of kicking off a tee

I'm loving watching this guy's FG kicking ... I'm sure Danny Smith and Mike are watching ... and waiting also ... [/quote]
Yes, he needs to improve his kickoffs (something he never did before coming to the Skins) and he is!

But you are CRAZY if you think they will let him go of he continues to play the way he is!!!

If he continues to make 100% of his kicks, he's staying. If he makes 95% of his kicks he's staying and if he makes 90% of his kicks he's staying. I don't care if he improves his kickoffs one bit he is staying as long as when they trot him out there to kick aFG they have already put the three points on the board in their minds.

He would have to go in FG slump or his KOs would have to get worse.

Your fooling yourself of you think his KOs are bad enough to warrant them even considering cutting him for even a nano second!

SkinsJock wrote:Forbath is great at kicking FGs - he's NOT great at kicking off a tee

Umm... wow. Well, we saw him kick it through the end zone several times in Dallas and in others games, so we therefore know he has the leg-strength to do it.

What I'm wondering though, is how do you know that the shorter kick-offs aren't by design? You keep talking about creating bad field position for the opponent, yet you aren't acknowledging that a shorter kick-off gives the cover-team a chance to produce worse starting field position for the opposing offense by stopping the returner inside the 20 yard line.

The Skins have a pretty darn good special-teams unit and they're pretty darn good at covering kick-offs. They've stopped the returner many times inside the 20.

So if your cover unit is good and has that capability, wouldn't it be - at times - to their advantage to have the kicker attempt to kick the ball a bit shorter, right in that uncertain grey area of the end-zone where the returner is forced to make a split-second decision as to whether he should bring the ball out of the end-zone or not, possibly stalling for just a second and presenting the kick-coverage team with a good chance of stopping him inside the 20 yard line if he does bring it out, thereby creating worse starting field position for their offense?

So again, how do you know the shorter kick-offs aren't by design?

SkinsFreak wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Forbath is great at kicking FGs - he's NOT great at kicking off a tee

Umm... wow. Well, we saw him kick it through the end zone several times in Dallas and in others games, so we therefore know he has the leg-strength to do it.

What I'm wondering though, is how do you know that the shorter kick-offs aren't by design? You keep talking about creating bad field position for the opponent, yet you aren't acknowledging that a shorter kick-off gives the cover-team a chance to produce worse starting field position for the opposing offense by stopping the returner inside the 20 yard line.

The Skins have a pretty darn good special-teams unit and they're pretty darn good at covering kick-offs. They've stopped the returner many times inside the 20.

So if your cover unit is good and has that capability, wouldn't it be - at times - to their advantage to have the kicker attempt to kick the ball a bit shorter, right in that uncertain grey area of the end-zone where the returner is forced to make a split-second decision as to whether he should bring the ball out of the end-zone or not, possibly stalling for just a second and presenting the kick-coverage team with a good chance of stopping him inside the 20 yard line if he does bring it out, thereby creating worse starting field position for their offense?

So again, how do you know the shorter kick-offs aren't by design?

The entire premise that our kicker isn't good enough is completely retarded, in my humble opinion. People will find anything to gripe about.

Oh! Our kicker has yet to miss a FG! Hmmm, his kickoffs are too short, we better replace him. (Fast forward 2 years) Our coaches are terrible evaluators of talent, I can't believe they let Forbath go!

SkinsJock wrote: hate to see him go

smh

I'll say it again - Forbath has been great at FGs - I did not know that Mike & Danny did not really want him getting his kickoffs deeper - I stand corrected

Forbath is great at kicking FGs - he's NOT great at kicking off a tee

Umm... wow. Well, we saw him kick it through the end zone several times in Dallas and in others games, so we therefore know he has the leg-strength to do it.

really? OK, I'll take your word for it

What I'm wondering though, is how do you know that the shorter kick-offs aren't by design? You keep talking about creating bad field position for the opponent, yet you aren't acknowledging that a shorter kick-off gives the cover-team a chance to produce worse starting field position for the opposing offense by stopping the returner inside the 20 yard line.
The Skins have a pretty darn good special-teams unit and they're pretty darn good at covering kick-offs. They've stopped the returner many times inside the 20.

So if your cover unit is good and has that capability, wouldn't it be - at times - to their advantage to have the kicker attempt to kick the ball a bit shorter, right in that uncertain grey area of the end-zone where the returner is forced to make a split-second decision as to whether he should bring the ball out of the end-zone or not, possibly stalling for just a second and presenting the kick-coverage team with a good chance of stopping him inside the 20 yard line if he does bring it out, thereby creating worse starting field position for their offense?

So again, how do you know the shorter kick-offs aren't by design?

OK - that settles that - I stand corrected - I thought that Mike and Danny preferred kickoffs that could not be returned - I did not know (AS YOU OBVIOUSLY DO) that they wanted Kai to make sure that some of the kicks could be returned .. THANKS

The entire premise that our kicker isn't good enough is completely retarded, in my humble opinion. People will find anything to gripe about.

what's retarded in my very humble opinion, is insinuating that I posted that Forbath isn't good enough .. I was obviously mistaken in thinking his kickoffs were not getting deep enough

I REPEAT - I think Forbath is great at kicking FGs, I just felt that his kickoffs were not getting very deep and that he should work on improving that

that mistake has been corrected

also

I did not know that Mike and Danny don't want him to get much depth on the kickoffs - that's also been explained ...

Oh! Our kicker has yet to miss a FG! Hmmm, his kickoffs are too short, we better replace him. (Fast forward 2 years) Our coaches are terrible evaluators of talent, I can't believe they let Forbath go!

I have NEVER advocated getting rid of Forbath - I just thought that he needed to work on getting his kickoffs deeper off the tee

I now understand that is NOT what Mike and Danny want

I'm glad that we have so much faith in stopping the kickoffs and do not want Forbath to hit the ball deep

THANKS

I'll certainly be watching the kickoffs more carefully now that I know what Mike and Danny are looking for from Kai ...

see - that's what so great about this site ...

there are a bunch of guys here that know so much and can straighten out all of us that are so retarded

Cobra Kai Forbath is going to be RGIII's Chip Lohmiller (didn't catch Mosely, just a bit too young). There is nothing, nothing to complain about w/r/t to Kai.

Kickoffs? KICKOFFS???!!!! We talkin' bout kickoffs? I leave this once again:

emoses14 wrote:


"Strike first, strike hard, strike fast, no mercy, sir."

I'm as excited as any here about Forbath's success as our kicker and I'm hoping that will continue

I was not aware that the HC and Danny Smith would actually prefer shorter kickoffs as some have pointed out

my concern was based on the fact that Kai seemed to not be able to get a lot of height on his deeper kicks

i'm OK with that - now that I know what the game plan is for kickoff coverage ...

As gif as he keeps making kicks and his Kick offs continue to be OK, then he will continue to be employed.

SJ,
Your posts seam like your eager for him to fall on his face. That may not be what you intended to convey, but it is certainly what you conveyed!

Now you're saying you are as happy as anyone here that Kia is 10 for 10, but then you say he needs to improve his KOs or he will be gone.

Both of those statements are total BS. If you wee as happy as anyone here you wouldn't care enough about his KOs to even mention then after he hit his tenth kick from 48 yards, with the entire nation watching, and securing us a win against are hated rivals.

There is no way he gets cut if he keeps living the way he has and to say he would is just simply insane. His KOs would have to dramatically get worse our he would have to start Cundiffing kicks!

Out looks like we have found a kicker, we haven't had a reliable kicker since Lowmiller or Mosely and you want to pick nits about KOs that aren't great, but aren't bad!

skinsfan#33 wrote:SJ,
Your posts seam like your eager for him to fall on his face. That may not be what you intended to convey, but it is certainly what you conveyed!

Pretty much...

Forbath is a beast. He's the guy. Stop obsessing over Gano. He stinks. Kai is the Guy. And, now you see why.

Corny but true. Stop mentioning Gano-Good.

What kind of crack must people be smoking to think a team would cut an insanely accurate kicker because he isn't kicking Enuf touchbacks.
?? Clean those nostrils. Step away from the pipe

You have 11 guys covering kicks for a reason. You act like teams only line up the kicker on kickoffs. SMH

Did kickoffs save Cundiff?? Guano?? How short of a memory must you have to say this stuff.

The Hogster wrote:Forbath is a beast. He's the guy. Stop obsessing over Gano. He stinks. Kai is the Guy. And, now you see why.

Corny but true. Stop mentioning Gano-Good.

Agree.

I was a Gano supporter, but it's obvious that Forbath is clearly better.

I'm on the Kai bandwagon. The kid is 25. If he keeps this up, he could be our kicker for the next decade.........

with the crappy kickers we've had in the past, Kai looks like Janikowski out there.. or the guy from the Pats.. or the guy from Indy.

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK KAI, WE FANS ARE PROUD OF YOU EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T ALWAYS PREACH IT.

Gano just missed a crucial PAT for the Panthers. Just sayin...

ATX_Skins wrote:Gano just missed a crucial PAT for the Panthers. Just sayin...

Beat me to it!!

Gotta head to the Panthers boards and see if the cheer of "GANOOOOO!!!" Has started yet.

Haha they're already calling for him to be cut. Awesome.

I'm just blown away that Forbath has come in here as a rookie and done this well. We had a lot of comments here over the past couple years about how we needed to be patient and let Gano learn and develop. I'm not knocking those posts, but its kind of a lesson maybe?

Btw who gets the credit for fixing the damn blocked kick issue this season? Danny Smith? Forbath? Linemen?

riggofan wrote:I'm just blown away that Forbath has come in here as a rookie and done this well. We had a lot of comments here over the past couple years about how we needed to be patient and let Gano learn and develop. I'm not knocking those posts, but its kind of a lesson maybe?

Btw who gets the credit for fixing the damn blocked kick issue this season? Danny Smith? Forbath? Linemen?

Danny gets credit, because he is the one that was responsible for the blocks last year (and this year). Kia certainly can't take credit, since he has has an extra point blocked.

You can look at a block and tell who didn't do there job. Take the blocked extra point Kia had. Yes thee was penetration, but his kick was WAY to low, just like the extra point Gano had blocked yesterday. Both of those misses were on the kickers.

The blocks Gano had last year were on the blocking unit. They didn't do their jobs and since there were right of them blocked, that kittens Danny wasn't doing his job!

Yes, a blocked kick can be on the blockers our on the kickers, you just have to look at it and see who didn't do their job correctly.

riggofan wrote:I'm just blown away that Forbath has come in here as a rookie and done this well. We had a lot of comments here over the past couple years about how we needed to be patient and let Gano learn and develop. I'm not knocking those posts, but its kind of a lesson maybe?

Btw who gets the credit for fixing the damn blocked kick issue this season? Danny Smith? Forbath? Linemen?

Danny gets credit, because he is the one that was responsible for the blocks last year (and this year). Kia certainly can't take credit, since he has has an extra point blocked.

You can look at a block and tell who didn't do there job. Take the blocked extra point Kia had. Yes thee was penetration, but his kick was WAY to low, just like the extra point Gano had blocked yesterday. Both of those misses were on the kickers.

The blocks Gano had last year were on the blocking unit. They didn't do their jobs and since there were right of them blocked, that kittens Danny wasn't doing his job!

Yes, a blocked kick can be on the blockers our on the kickers, you just have to look at it and see who didn't do their job correctly.

ATX_Skins wrote:Gano just missed a crucial PAT for the Panthers. Just sayin...

+1

I'm sure someone here will blame Danny Smith.

See Gano missed that PAT because of trauma he suffered here under Danny.


HE SUCKS

ATX_Skins wrote:Gano just missed a crucial PAT for the Panthers. Just sayin...

Wow.

Mississippi Hog wrote:Loving Kai Forbath. I truly hope he is the answer at Kicker for us for a long time. But, it is worth mentioning that Gano signed today with the Panthers. Here's hoping he isn't David Akers all over again.

I LOVE Forbath's ability to kick FGs - hopefully he continues to do well here ...

I'm glad Gano got a job with the Panthers - hopefully he does well there
Gano might become as good or better than Akers - good luck to him