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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:18 pm
by DaSkinz Baby
markshark84 wrote:riggofan wrote:Yes! What we REALLY need is another coaching change. That has really worked well for us in the past.
+1
We have seen progress with MS. Inpatience and instability work against you when progress is actually being made. If there is no progress --- then by all means we should cut him loose right now, but there is progress being made.
When MS got here, there were literally only 3 half-decent players on this roster. Please remember that. We weren't SF when Harbaugh took over. Look at our final roster. Outside of Fletcher. Moss, and Orakpo, we had NOBODY on this team. It's almost comical in a very sad and depressing way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Washi ... nal_rosterMS had to find 52 guys to make a decent team in 3 years. That is a tall order.
Besides, did you really think we were a playoff team this year??? Get real. Playoff teams have quality at all areas. We have issues at DL, DB, OL, and WR. That's enough to keep us out of the playoffs. You need quality everywhere.
If you really think we should have gone from that roster in 2009 to a playoff team in 3 seasons, you need a reality check.
Okay other than RG3 and Alfred Morris where have we made progress? Seriously the offensive line "looks" better because of RG3. Our defense has consistently gotten worse. We can blame Mara and Goodell all we want but seriously this team sucks with the exception of RG3 and Alfred Morris and sorry I don't want to hear about Orakpo and Carriker being the reason we suck on defense. Haslett was crap in St. Louis and New Orleans and Mike Shanahan thinks he is the answer in the NFC East?
That alone shows you Shanahan is again in over his head and Danny Snyder again fooled by over-ratedness. Snyder has went from paying too much for past their prime players (Example Deion Sanders) to paying for past their prime coaches (Joe Gibbs and Mike Shanahan). If he was 1/2 as smart he would get Sean Payton.....................But trust me Dallas or Philly will have Sean as their HC most likely.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:19 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Mursilis wrote:Who can't catch
Right, cus RGIII got that 70% completion rate throwing passes to himself...
Considering the endless drops, his completion percentage really is phenomenal. He's an amazing passer with power, touch and accuracy. Every time he runs now I'm starting to cringe, I'd really to keep him away from those hits. Someone who throws the ball that well can just shred a D.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:26 pm
by DaSkinz Baby
chiefhog44 wrote:Slow down people. Although I am disappointed in this last game and the egg we laid in Pittsburgh, I figured we would be about where we are right now. I figured we would end up at around 6-10, with a rookie QB and not factoring injuries to 4 of our best players.
Rak
Carriker
Garcon
Davis
I think it would be a huge step backward to not give this coaching staff another off season to build this. He's halfway through his contract and this offseason is a big one. Rid the team of it's last holdovers this offseason and continue to sprinkle in some solid free agents.
People are bashing the blunders of this front office, but you can point to a bunch of great FA's and draft picks they brought in who are really solid and form the nucleous of this team. Our offense across the board is pretty solid from WR, to TE, to O-line, to RB to QB. We now have a solid K. And on D, our front 7 is pretty solid (need one more pass rusher to add to Kerrigan and Rak), our Safites are poor and our CB's are overrated.
If you can add a Safety in the 2nd round next year, add a Free agent CB, a RT in the 3rd, and continue to develop all of our draft picks, I really like how that team looks. This team is not that far away really. Just had a bad couple games. Every team has them
This is ridiculous. Sorry it may be "common sense" however look at it for what it is. Mike was always over rated. The ONLY thing he get's partial credit for is finding running backs but I believe the running back coach he brought here from Denver has a lot to do with that.
In Denver his good teams consisted of Gary Kubiak calling plays, when Gary left so did Mikes offensive juggernauts. Mike never had a good defensive coordinator and that was one if not the main reason he was fired.
And again let's not kid ourselves Mike Shanahan winning the SB was nothing more than luck. He didn't make that team Dan Reeves built that team.
Kyle is a clown and his retarded play calling in the red zone prove that. All his stats the first 4-5 weeks was all due to other teams not being able to gauge RG3 but there is tape on him now and look we can barely get 14 points.
Let's also add in our special teams that SUCK. Yeah it's people with your mindset that continue to have Daniel Snyder laugh all the way to the bank........SMDH.....
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:27 pm
by chiefhog44
Mursilis wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:
I think it would be a huge step backward to not give this coaching staff another off season to build this.
Build what? A winning team? Where is it?
Build his team. He needs to be given a longer tenue than the average coach here has received over the last 10 years. Let see what this team looks like at this time next year. From day 1, I have said 4 years, and I'm not letting a poor game get in the way of that.
Mursilis wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:
Our offense across the board is pretty solid from WR
Who can't catch
for the last two weeks. Come on. we have our best WR injured.
Mursilis wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:
to TE, to O-line
Who can't seem to pass-block that well - they gave up 4 sacks yesterday, and saw almost no blitzes
You are agin using one game to settle this.
Mursilis wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:
This team is not that far away really. Just had a bad couple games. Every team has them
We fans say that every year. And every year, we're wrong.
I never said that last year, and neither did the experts...soooo, who exactly said this? You? That's on you.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:27 pm
by CanesSkins26
Chris Luva Luva wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:riggofan wrote:Yes! What we REALLY need is another coaching change. That has really worked well for us in the past.
Coaching changes haven't been our problem. Hiring the wrong coach has been the problem (ie Spurrier and Zorn). Obviously you don't want constant turnover but its equally bad to continue on with a coach that you don't think can get the job done. I'm not saying that Shanahan should be fired, but the idea for keeping him on just for the sake of continuity and because of too much turnover in the past doesn't make any real sense.
So if he's let go, who do we bring in that's a guarantee?
I would give him one more year, but if I was looking for a coach this offseason I'd go after Sean Payton.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:32 pm
by CanesSkins26
Let me add to my last post. Like I said, I would give him one more year, but if Shanahan was fired, my main focus would be hiring a competent GM then worrying about the coach. I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:33 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
CanesSkins26 wrote:I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
Not sure how old you are, but a lot of people don't really remember the reality of the Gibbs/Beathard days. Beathard did the work, but every time they disagreed, JKC sided with Gibbs. It actually isn't that different than it is now. Allen's doing the work, but Shannahan's making the final calls.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:38 pm
by DaSkinz Baby
KazooSkinsFan wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
Not sure how old you are, but a lot of people don't really remember the reality of the Gibbs/Beathard days. Beathard did the work, but every time they disagreed, JKC sided with Gibbs. It actually isn't that different than it is now. Allen's doing the work, but Shannahan's making the final calls.
Yep and that is why there is little to no progress. Mike isn't good at having the final say. Pat Bolen should call Danny and let him know this.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:43 pm
by chiefhog44
CanesSkins26 wrote:Let me add to my last post. Like I said, I would give him one more year, but if Shanahan was fired, my main focus would be hiring a competent GM then worrying about the coach. I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
If Shanny was fired, I imagine Bruce would continue to run the show and coaches that have experience with mobile QB's would be brought in. Enter Chucky, Holmgren, Arians. Again, I still think this needs to be given another year. The top coaches want to know that the owner isn't going to act like a fan and fire them when the going gets tough. Coaches interview owners and franchises as much as anything, and if this owner can't get out of his own way, we'll hire no one worthy this year. No worthy coach wants to enter into that scenario.
Shanny also bought himself an additional year by drafting RG3. I said as much before the draft. It was a must trade for job security.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:43 pm
by Mursilis
langleyparkjoe wrote:*side note*..
I like da avatar Mursilis.. congrats!
Thanks, but I can't take credit for it - someone else kindly designed it for me.
NC43Hog designed it. And a great job he did, too.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:44 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
DaSkinz Baby wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
Not sure how old you are, but a lot of people don't really remember the reality of the Gibbs/Beathard days. Beathard did the work, but every time they disagreed, JKC sided with Gibbs. It actually isn't that different than it is now. Allen's doing the work, but Shannahan's making the final calls.
Yep and that is why there is little to no progress. Mike isn't good at having the final say. Pat Bolen should call Danny and let him know this.
Some of the Bethard era's big trades, like the Gerald Riggs one, Bethard was totally opposed to
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:47 pm
by Mursilis
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Mursilis wrote:Who can't catch
Right, cus RGIII got that 70% completion rate throwing passes to himself...
And yet this team has been leading the league in drops the last two weeks. RGIII throws a nice ball - now the WRs need to catch it.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:08 pm
by DaSkinz Baby
Sort of hard to catch anything when you don't practice the basics. Sort of like what Green and Mann eluded too. Football isn't rocket science no matter how fast you can run a 40 or how high your vertical leap is. If your coaching staff don't take time to go over the basics you loose. Case in point the Washington Redskins. I have come to suspect that the reasons why the Redskins start off good under Shanahan is training camp he and his staff cover the basics like catching. However when the season starts he is so focused on his 30 play scripting that basics are not coached and this is why you see every year we have these multi game losing streaks. I suspect many of us fans are just that and have no clue how to or what coaching teaches or have the ability to really see why things continue to degress..........
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:11 pm
by CanesSkins26
KazooSkinsFan wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
Not sure how old you are, but a lot of people don't really remember the reality of the Gibbs/Beathard days. Beathard did the work, but every time they disagreed, JKC sided with Gibbs. It actually isn't that different than it is now. Allen's doing the work, but Shannahan's making the final calls.
That was a looong time ago. In today's NFL it's not a recipe for success. Holmgren struggled when he became coach and GM and Shanahan began having problems when he took on that roll in Denver. Sure we have Allen, but he handles more of the business side and Shanahan is responsible for personnel moves. If you look back at what Shanahan's problems were in Denver, it wasn't his coaching. It was the personnel moves that were made on the defensive side of the ball.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:11 pm
by absinthe1023
I can't believe that no one has come out with a request for Chip Kelly + fill-in-the blank defensive coordinator as replacements for the Shanahans.....what's this site coming to?
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:12 pm
by DaSkinz Baby
It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach. That either means that this team is cursed or the two time winning coach really isn't that good and as I have said this is the issue. Dan Reeves built the teams that Mikey won the SB's with and when it came time for him to build his team, he got fired.........DUH!!! Another Daniel Snyder marketing ploy.......And tiny continues to laugh all the way to the bank........
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:19 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach
What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:39 pm
by DaSkinz Baby
KazooSkinsFan wrote:DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach
What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.
No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:49 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
CanesSkins26 wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
Not sure how old you are, but a lot of people don't really remember the reality of the Gibbs/Beathard days. Beathard did the work, but every time they disagreed, JKC sided with Gibbs. It actually isn't that different than it is now. Allen's doing the work, but Shannahan's making the final calls.
That was a looong time ago. In today's NFL it's not a recipe for success. Holmgren struggled when he became coach and GM and Shanahan began having problems when he took on that roll in Denver. Sure we have Allen, but he handles more of the business side and Shanahan is responsible for personnel moves. If you look back at what Shanahan's problems were in Denver, it wasn't his coaching. It was the personnel moves that were made on the defensive side of the ball.
No highly successful organization works without one person making the final decision. Decision by committee is decision of mediocrity
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:52 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
DaSkinz Baby wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach
What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.
No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......
Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:06 pm
by DarthMonk
KazooSkinsFan wrote:DaSkinz Baby wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach
What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.
No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......
Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.
He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?
DarthMonk
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:16 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
DarthMonk wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:DaSkinz Baby wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach
What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.
No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......
Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.
He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?
DarthMonk
Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:17 pm
by Irn-Bru
CanesSkins26 wrote:Let me add to my last post. Like I said, I would give him one more year, but if Shanahan was fired, my main focus would be hiring a competent GM then worrying about the coach. I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.
I'm probably at about the same place as you. Unless things turn around substantially this year, I'd only give Shanahan one more year to produce some concrete progress in terms of wins. Four years out of his five-year contract is a good enough show of faith on the part of Snyder, and I couldn't fault him for moving on after that.
I do have a hard time imagining how bad things would have to be before I'd part ways with Shanahan after this year. Though the fact that he said the season has already switched to evaluation mode is for me a very bad sign. Very bad. (Even though he appears to be back-tracking.)
If the locker room spirals out of control from here, I think you have to consider a change this offseason, if only to cut our losses. But I don't think we'll see things get that chaotic.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:22 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Irn-Bru wrote:If the locker room spirals out of control from here, I think you have to consider a change this offseason, if only to cut our losses. But I don't think we'll see things get that chaotic.
So far, the team never quits. They believe they can win any game until it's over. It's hard to even be contemplating it as a possibility.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:28 pm
by Irn-Bru
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:If the locker room spirals out of control from here, I think you have to consider a change this offseason, if only to cut our losses. But I don't think we'll see things get that chaotic.
So far, the team never quits. They believe they can win any game until it's over. It's hard to even be contemplating it as a possibility.
I'm talking about the fallout from Shanahan's statements, which some players already expressed discontent over (on the condition of anonymity). Plus, have they had the best attitude if Sunday's performance against the Panthers was their comeback from a tough Steeler's loss?
I'm not saying there is a problem, and you know I'm not one to stir the pot of negativity just for kicks. But it's not unthinkable to me, and I've watched Redskins teams that have given up on coaches before. I'm getting a similar feeling about the way things are right now.
A good coach can clamp down on it and right the ship, and I think Shanahan is a good coach. So I don't think a meltdown is likely.