The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Red_One43 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:
So, what now coach? We fold and forfeit the rest of the season?

And Shanny says to RiC:

“Now you’re playing to see who obviously is going to be on your football team for years to come. Now we get a chance to evaluate players and see where we’re at."

“Obviously, we’re not out of it statistically, but now we find out what type of character we’ve got and how guys keep on fighting through the rest of the season.”

Sounds like 2010 all over again, except earlier - much earlier.

There is a time to put the proverbial foot in the proverbial mouth and Shanahan did not recognize that moment TWICE:

One, before the game with the MUST WIN statement;

Two, after the game acknowledging that the team is out of contention for a playoff spot.

TWO TERRIBLE calls made out of frustration. Lack of discipline obviously starts at the top.

Not good , coach. Not good. It does not matter that you told the TRUTH. There are times to put the proverbial ... whatever!

Now I am REALLY afraid about the consequences ...

Haslett is gone but who is responsible for the disastrous switch to 3-4?

The guy who ordered its implementation?

The guy who implemented it wrong with the wrong players?

BOTH???

Oh ... the possibilities. Not good.

??? Seems like a bad call ... let's hope he knows what he's doing ???

He doesn't have a freaking clue what he's doing, and the 14-27 record in 2 1/2 seasons is our clue to this fact. And if the rose colored glasses are obscuring one's view of reality, let's just take a time-out and reflect on the situation in it's entirety, beginning with the unacceptable first, and work our way down the list, shall we?

1) It's unacceptable, and frankly disgusting to hear our head coach actually throw in the towel and concede the season in game 9, especially when 5 of our next 7 games are division games, and we are not mathematically eliminated from anything yet. It's fine for the cynical football analysts and disgruntled fans to be harshly critical and face the reality that unless there is a magical turn around in performance, or one or two of the next 7 opponents allows our current embarrassing ineptitude to lull them to sleep, we may not win another game this year. But there is nothing acceptable about that defeatist attitude coming from the players or the coaches who have the obligation to try to turn things around, and absolutely unacceptable coming from the head coach. That alone is grounds for the dismissal of this incompetent loser, who apparently doesn't even grasp that basic concept of leadership. I find it appalling ... and so should anyone else claiming to be a Redskin fan ... I can only imagine how hard it is for players to fight through this, while the coach is "taking a powder". And this confirms my long standing claim that Shanahan is a lousy coach. Even marginal coaches would NEVER behave this way, let alone a good one.

2) During this "concession" press conference, Shanahan made reference to the coming games as an evaluation period to see who would remain Redskins for the years to come. The underlying message is ... it's the players fault, not mine. Well guess what, Mike .... you picked the players, and you picked the coaching staff, and you have had total control of who those current Redskin players are today, and it was your responsibility to coach them up. The blame starts right there with you Mike ...you are 100% responsible ... but losers never take responsibility and always want to blame others for their own failures. This is UNACCEPTABLE from a leader. Can anyone imagine, in their wildest dreams, Joe Gibbs acting like this? Even the embattled, rookie HC Jim Zorn maintained unwavering optimism, and never pointed fingers.


3) When declaring game 9 to be a "must win", and your upcoming opponent must face you on your home field, in front of your fans, and they have a record of 1-6, and have managed to find every way imaginable to lose their last 5 straight games, you should be able to help them find a way to make it 6 straight. And it is UNACCEPTABLE to take that opportunity to get a "must win", and instead, put up your worst performance of the year so far, and find a way to lose. This demonstrates a fundamental failure in preparation and attitude and game planning and leadership.

4) Of the many Redskin head coaches over the past 50 years (those who coached at least 2 seasons) there is only one coach with a worse win-loss record than Mike Shanahan .... and you have to go all the way back to 1961-1965 to find him .... Bill McPeak who had a 21-46 record back when I attended my first Redskin game at the age of 5. Since then, no one else's record is worse than Shanahan ..... not Steve Spurrier, not Norv Turner, not Jim Zorn .... N O B O D Y. That is UNACCEPTABLE

5) the bad - we've seen this coach come in the first year and rebuild a defense that didn't need rebuilding, while pretty much ignoring the offense which desperately needed that help. In the second year, he continued to rebuild that defense, and the offense, with our offensive hopes placed in a an obscure QB by the name of John Beck, whom Shanahan "staked his reputation" on, who turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. And finally, in year three, with the final tweaks to this totally rebuilt defense, we now have perhaps the worst Redskin defense in the era of non-leather football helmets, and instead of getting better ... year to year, and week to week, we've gotten worse.

6) Each year under Shanahan, there have been major personnel changes which have resulted in an entirely new roster of players, on both sides of the ball, and there has been a lot of hit and miss in those changes, to include 4 QBs .. several running backs .. several new receivers .... all new secondary with only two pre-shanahan players left, with many many errors .... McNabb was a bust, Grossman and Beck were Busts ...and we still have receivers that can't get open, and when they manage to, they can't catch ... we have a secondary that can't cover anyone, and a d-line that can't rush the passer and an o-line that can't block the pass rush. And this was the roster Shanahan entered 2012 with claiming to be a much improved roster that he was very happy with, and confident he could win with. But if you take RG3 out of that mix ... the Redskins would likely be 0-9 right now, and looking at being the ugly twin sister to the 0-16 Detroit Lions of a couple years back. This is bad.

7) As much as I agree with the move to get RG3 ... we must take into account that over the past three years, with a full complement of draft picks at his disposal, Shanahan has managed to make no real tangible improvement from a winning perspective ... and aside RG3 and a couple of surprises like Alfred Morris, the personnel choices have been quite mediocre to poor ... with the exception of the high picks like Kerrigan, which one expects to be successful. So, with that in mind ... and knowing that for the next two years, we don't have those #1 picks ... how are we to expect that Shanahan will do better, with less? Couple that with another year of severe cap hit (due to the shenanigans in the front office during the uncapped year first year here) which will prevent us from patching all of this mess with free agents ... I see no light at the end of this tunnel, except the locomotive coming straight at us.

In the final analysis, teams and coaches can experience challenges, and no one can control injuries. Bad luck happens sometimes, and these circumstances must be considered when evaluating the performance of teams and coaches. But three years of declining performance is what it is. And the addition of two remarkable rookies like RG3 and Morris cannot make up for the many failures ... hell, Morris was a lucky find .. else they would have drafted him much sooner than round 6 ... and anyone can trade a wheel barrel full of draft picks for a star prospect like RG3 .. it doesn't take a football genius to do that.

But there is one sacred rule ... one all important principle that can never be allowed to be broken by anyone, player or coach ... and that is the cancer of "quitting" and "accepting defeat". This type of attitude is pure poison ... and no matter the source .. from a player to a secretary, it cannot be tolerated, under any circumstances.

In RG3's post game presser today, he pretty much said that he's coming back after the buy week, and fully plans and expects to win ... and those that don't feel that way should not bother to come back. That's how winners think, and that is the only attitude that should exist in the locker room, on the field, or in the coaches offices.

Snyder should embrace the leadership this young man named RG3 demonstrates, and follow that lead by doing his duty ... and eliminate this poisonous cancer coming from it's head coach ... immediately, with the extra week off to find an interim HC to finish out the year.

The Redskins organization does not need this creep ... RG3 doesn't need his attitude ... and the team will be better off when the lot of this incompetent staff of losers is gone.

If you had a player poisoning the locker room, you'd cut him ... you wouldn't wait till the end of the year. And there is not one good reason to wait to take action with a coach doing the same thing. And after this clear demonstration of it in front of the press ... and NFL headlines reading "Redskins throwing in the towel?" Shanahan must be fired. It's inconceivable for anyone to try to rationalize his unacceptable behavior and attitude. There is simply no excuse for it .. it cannot be tolerated ... and a clear message must be sent .... losers need not apply, and will not be welcome at Redskin park.

The stat that really opened my eyes was that Shanahan is 5-15 at Fedex Field? 5-15??!!!!!

So, the people who pay huge money to watch the team play at Fedex 8 times every season can only "hope" to see the home team win twice. Gulp.

I don't care what the head coach's name is, and what his reputation is - results are all that matters.

5-15 at home is pathetic ... and unacceptable. But today's presser was the last straw for me. Mike is a egomaniacal nitwit who's reputation far exceeds his true value as a coach, and his conceding the season openly just illustrates what a horse's rear end he is.

He's not a "players coach", and all of the telltale signs are there ... the most penalized team in the NFL is the mark of a poorly disciplined, poorly coached team ... and the past two weeks shows that opposing defenses are figuring out Kyle's Madden football like game management which has thus far relied on the super talents of RG3, and some trickery.

To be brutally honest ... Kyle has proven over the past couple of weeks that he actually can screw up a wet dream. He can take a tremendously talented QB, and a RB that's gaining 5+ yards per carry, and still find a way to fail.

Look at the mess we saw today ... 4 sacks in the 2nd half ... and not once does it occur to this punk to maybe roll RG3 out and away from that pass rush? Do we not have the screen pass in our playbook? What happened to the quick bubble screens to slow down that rush ... what happened to a conventional attack that has your QB with a rifle arm throw down field from a conventional passing attack instead of all this pistol formation and read option stuff?

Our problem isn't mike and Kyle..

It's that on offense: Two best recievers are hurt

On Defense: We are the worst in NFL History

Three things...


1. The whistle call was an important part of the game. It was a momentum changer in a game where momentum is everything.


2. The loss of Orakpo and Carriker were bigger than we could have imagined. Those guys change the way our "lesser" players are defended. With Orakpo in the game, Bowen may only get 1 person on him, which he can easily beat. Without Orakpo, he gets doubled and isn't talent enough to consistenly beat it. Hopefully Rak can stay healthy moving forward.

U can look up north to Baltimore for the same results. Their defense wasn't the same without T Sizzle. Then with Ray out and their best DB, their defense completely collasped. That mantra of "next man up" is BS IMO. There are limits to depth.


3. Fans demanding a coaching change... <snore>. If anyone is going to go, it will prolly be Haz. But I doubt it. He's playing without the players he was "promised" at saftey. No upgrades at CB. -1 probowl OLB. And without one of his better DE's. That's a heck of an issue to overcome.

blaaaaahhhhh

but i agree wit cll

and it was pretty exciting to see rg3 and our offense score at end of the game though.

but blaaaaah becuz we lost to some bumz

did n e see santana's head hit dude's shoulder? my man moss was OUT! glad he was aite do'h

go skins, hopefully we won't lose this week to the bye but i'm sure we won't

To CLL's post - I agree, the call came at a bad time and as Mike P. said on air - the call should have been changed, the refs should have sucked it up

as far as advocating for a coaching change - not so fast

I do not like what we've seen for the most part of the past 9 games but at the same time I'm not so sure I'd say it's ALL due to the coaching

I'm not a fan of the HC - I'm really disappointed in what we've seen from the players due to the 'leadership' of both Kyle and Jim ..

that being said - I'm not looking for all out house-cleaning here .... well ..... not just yet


not good though - especially with an owner like we have who does not have a SINGLE clue about owning an NFL franchise

"next man up"............iS nothing BUT WISHFUL THINKING

I was against keeping Banks on the roster going into this year, and I hope by now the coaches agree with me. They took a gamble on him and lost, and it's time to give up on the idea that he has long-term potential. With the rule change on kickoffs and our porous defense, he only has half the chances to do anything, and while that's been enough to make a half-dozen boneheaded plays he has yet to create a positive game-changing moment.

Meanwhile, the trick plays on offense with him have gone from "that wasn't too bad, I guess" to flacid.

Whatever edge he brought on returns is gone — I'm guessing due to the injuries he's battled. And with our best receivers either injured or not performing, we badly need that roster spot for a real NFL WR.

If I'm Shanahan, I call Banks into my office this morning, thank him for everything he's done the past three years, cut him, and give Terrence Austin a call.

langleyparkjoe wrote:blaaaaahhhhh

but i agree wit cll

and it was pretty exciting to see rg3 and our offense score at end of the game though.

but blaaaaah becuz we lost to some bumz

did n e see santana's head hit dude's shoulder? my man moss was OUT! glad he was aite do'h

go skins, hopefully we won't lose this week to the bye but i'm sure we won't

Not so fast. The Bye Week just scored on an 80 yard pass.

How many guys did the Pac have on IR the year they won it all? 15?

Yeah, I know, we aren't the Packers.

Exactly.

Don't get me wrong. I still love the Redskins. I will cheer in two weeks against the Eags. But right now we are in a bad way and we can't blame injuries. We are probably "relatively" healthy but as we all knew in advance we lacked the depth to deal with it and that's on ... you know who.

DarthMonk

SkinsJock wrote:

ACW wrote:And speaking of bad calls: Tarik El-Bashir ;@TarikCSN: Referee Carl Cheffers: "We just felt when the whistle blew, that the player would have already scored a touchdown."

Mike Periera after seeing the replay said that guy is supposed to "suck it up" and tell the ref that he blew the whistle and the play should have been ruled 'dead'

Yeah, it pissed me off that on NFL AM this morning, they said, "The play was blown dead, but good job by the officials for getting the call right."
Huh??? Our players heard the whistle and stopped. I'm not saying the Panthers wouldn't have gone on to score, but you never know. And the roughing call on London, and the pass interference call when the receiver hadn't even gone five yards to extend their second scoring drive, were outrageously bad as well.

This one hurt. This isn't one the Redskins can afford to lose.

The comments by Shanahan were inexcusable, but it's pretty clear that the team showed little effort in this game.

I'm pretty beat up today about this one.

tribeofjudah wrote:what the flock is going on.
We were doing so good, putting up BIG POINTS, looking like a scoring machine...

But alas ---that seemed like years ago

That was before our defense was totally exposed. Our O only had 2 possessions in the FIRST HALF. If we can't get our O on the field, we can't score.

There are 2 things about this game that really disappointed me ...

1 going for the TD on 4th down when you as a HC know that the defense has not shown they can stop anyone

AND

2 the defense then allowing the Panthers to go 99 yards and score a TD

devastating

as a HC you can decide to have a go at a TD when you are absolutely positive your defense will NOT allow the other team to then go and score

we are not that team - Mike has to take the 3 at that time

Irn-Bru wrote:I was against keeping Banks on the roster going into this year, and I hope by now the coaches agree with me. They took a gamble on him and lost, and it's time to give up on the idea that he has long-term potential. With the rule change on kickoffs and our porous defense, he only has half the chances to do anything, and while that's been enough to make a half-dozen boneheaded plays he has yet to create a positive game-changing moment.

Meanwhile, the trick plays on offense with him have gone from "that wasn't too bad, I guess" to flacid.

Whatever edge he brought on returns is gone — I'm guessing due to the injuries he's battled. And with our best receivers either injured or not performing, we badly need that roster spot for a real NFL WR.

If I'm Shanahan, I call Banks into my office this morning, thank him for everything he's done the past three years, cut him, and give Terrence Austin a call.

Agree about cutting Banks. He has done nothing for us this year. I cringe everytime he touches the ball; whether it is because he runs all over the field for 1 yd or less or because I am afraid he will fumble.

I used to love BB, but with the rule changes, there is no longer a reason to keep a "return specialist" unless they can also play another position well. Banks can't play the WR position and has not produced in the pistol or triple option formations.

Right now we need to either cut Robinson, Briscoe, or Banks and bring in another WR because our current WRs just can't catch the ball. It is embarassing and will hurt RGIII's confidence. Did you see all the bad screen and short passes RGIII threw yesterday --- I can almost gauarantee that the horrendous WR play was a factor in hurting his rythm on those plays.

I read the there was ALOT of "laundry" on the field: flags, penalties

Even at HOME.....we couldn't get a BREAK

SUX

SkinsJock wrote:There are 2 things about this game that really disappointed me ...

1 going for the TD on 4th down when you as a HC know that the defense has not shown they can stop anyone

I think that's why he went for it. I really didn't mind going for it, but the play call was atrocious. You have to have a passing option in that situation.

SkinsJock wrote:2 the defense then allowing the Panthers to go 99 yards and score a TD

devastating

To be fair, the refs extended that drive twice on bogus penalties.

I typically blame players for not executing the plays given, however, Kyles redzone offense has been an issue. Our highly rated passer isn't being allowed to throw the ball.

The other issue is that, Alfred Morris is being taken off the field for Evan Royster... Royster sucks. Helu sucks. You don't take your best players off the field when you get into the most important area of the field. And quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

The season isn't over, but it's time to make some gut checks.

And someone please explain to me the PI before Cam rushed it in. Not catchable.

ACW wrote:And someone please explain to me the PI before Cam rushed it in. Not catchable.

there are good calls and bad calls - do you really think that this stupid call made any difference whatsoever?

Irn-Bru wrote:If I'm Shanahan, I call Banks into my office this morning, thank him for everything he's done the past three years, cut him, and give Terrence Austin a call.

Trying to explain why he keeps Banks will be the LEAST of Mike Shanahan's concerns after the media requests a few clarifications and poses some interesting questions about his recent statements.

MUST WIN?

Time to evaluate players?

The election is tomorrow and Mike made a concession speech on Sunday. It will be an interesting press conference today Monday indeed. Let's see how good is Mike as a SPIN DOCTOR. It is Washington DC after all.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I typically blame players for not executing the plays given, however, Kyles redzone offense has been an issue. Our highly rated passer isn't being allowed to throw the ball.

The other issue is that, Alfred Morris is being taken off the field for Evan Royster... Royster sucks. Helu sucks. You don't take your best players off the field when you get into the most important area of the field. And quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

The season isn't over, but it's time to make some gut checks.

Totally agree about Royster. Been saying this since week 1. Morris needs to be our everydown back. Royster can get in there on OBVIOUS throwing situations -- otherwise Morris should be in there.

The only reason I can think of for why Royster is playing is that Morris tends to run out of gas after about 15-18 carries -- but yesterday he should have been playing when the game was on the line.

If it were up to me, I would consider having Morris in on all downs and Williams on passing plays. I never liked him back in 2010, but he may be better suited over Royster.

markshark84 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I typically blame players for not executing the plays given, however, Kyles redzone offense has been an issue. Our highly rated passer isn't being allowed to throw the ball.

The other issue is that, Alfred Morris is being taken off the field for Evan Royster... Royster sucks. Helu sucks. You don't take your best players off the field when you get into the most important area of the field. And quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

The season isn't over, but it's time to make some gut checks.

Totally agree about Royster. Been saying this since week 1. Morris needs to be our everydown back. Royster can get in there on OBVIOUS throwing situations -- otherwise Morris should be in there.

The only reason I can think of for why Royster is playing is that Morris tends to run out of gas after about 15-18 carries -- but yesterday he should have been playing when the game was on the line.

If it were up to me, I would consider having Morris in on all downs and Williams on passing plays. I never liked him back in 2010, but he may be better suited over Royster.

Also agreed about Royster, his pass blocking is terrible and he's a complete reliability in pass-pro. I do, however, wish Helu was healthy because I think we could use a guy who can take a screen play and make something out of it. Royster cannot and Morris isn't greatly suited for it either.

As far as RGIII not being allowed to throw the ball, I'd really like to know what's up with this. I've seen the same thing and this offense is turning into dink and dunk or play action down the seam ONLY. They need to let this kid throw the ball, especially in the RZ. I haven't seen any fade routes or attempts to get the TE the ball around the goal line and instead see sweep right/left or trickery with option crap when there's little room for it.