The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

HarleyHog wrote:Hall was upset because a lineman had grabbed him by the shoulderpads and slammed him to the ground, then jumped on top of him. No excuse for stupid fouls, but kinda wonder myself why the ref, who was standing right there, didn't call it. Seemed mega-flagrant, but whatever. The receivers were awful. Practice with the irrigation system running, or something. Weather sucked, but what was it, 11 drops? Back on topic though, agree you cannot cut until you can paste. Hall is, sadly, probably the best of the bunch.

Isn't this why Gibbs always preferred practicing outside and wasn't this the counter argument to a practice dome?

Other teams use practice domes. We just suck

RayNAustin wrote:Hall is still the best DB we have ... that's not saying much given the pathetic play coming from this bunch ... but Hall handled his man Nicks last week, while Wilson and Williams looked like they ought to be bowling.

The guy is frustrated and angry ... just like all of us are ... only he's on the field dealing with it. And I think what set him off was a cut block, and if that is the case, he had reason to be mad ... but obviously cannot loose his composure. But it was at the end of the game, and had no impact on the game.

I agree. DHall is our best secondary player right now and that isn't saying much. Our 2ndary is just not talented. I personally think they are trying as best they can, but they lack the talent to execute and adequately defend. DHall at least has some talent.

Cutting Hall wouldn't send any message other than that our FO and coach are crazy. Do you really think our current secondary thinks they have solified their jobs and are being complacent?????? Get real. They aren't fools. They know that MS and BA are going to make it a priority to draft over them in the offseason as well as trying to sign guys to replace them in the offseason.

DHall did something really stupid at the end of the game, but he was smart enough to do it at the end of the game when a penalty like that wouldn't matter. I want to be clear that I think his behavior was COMPLETELY unacceptable, but the game was over AND the officiating was horrendous. I saw at least 7 C-L-E-A-R penalties by PITT that weren't called. And these were obvious. I was upset too. I told the guys that it would have been difficult for me to now explode at the officiating also. Did you see MS on the sideline??? He was going crazy. If the NFL wouldn't suspend or heavily fine MS, I think we would have heard him make a comment about the officiating...

Irn-Bru wrote:

riggofan wrote:

fetus wrote:Letting Carlos go was the worst mistake shabby made

Rogers couldn't WAIT to get out of DC. Complete B.S. to blame Shanny that he's not here.

Correct. He knew he was hitting a FA market hot for CBs and got his payday. At the time his play did not warrant the contract he would have needed to stay in DC.

And it should be noted that after a 6-pick season last year, he's still waiting for his first this year, and has dropped more than one in just the games I saw.

Then again, the Skins can't really talk, because right now we're paying Hall many millions to be an OK corner.

Totally true. I'd take Carlos Rogers over Hall in a heartbeat, no doubt about it. Just completely bogus to claim that its Shanahan's fault he's not here.

If you're going to second guess Shanny/Allen for anything, I think the money we spent on Garcon/Morgan without addressing the secondary is fair game. I don't know how much the salary cap penalty is to blame for that, but in hindsight it definitely looks like we would have been better off going after a quality CB.

riggofan wrote:

fetus wrote:Letting Carlos go was the worst mistake shabby made

Rogers couldn't WAIT to get out of DC. Complete B.S. to blame Shanny that he's not here.

Carlos was a me first, selfish oaf, those pining for him are wasting their breath.

On Deangelo, I like Irn-Bru's comment that we're paying big money for an OK corner, that is the issue.

I personally like Josh as a #2 corner. He's not the most gifted player, but he works his butt off and has a great attitude. I think the issue is we need a better #1 corner.

riggofan wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

riggofan wrote:

fetus wrote:Letting Carlos go was the worst mistake shabby made

Rogers couldn't WAIT to get out of DC. Complete B.S. to blame Shanny that he's not here.

Correct. He knew he was hitting a FA market hot for CBs and got his payday. At the time his play did not warrant the contract he would have needed to stay in DC.

And it should be noted that after a 6-pick season last year, he's still waiting for his first this year, and has dropped more than one in just the games I saw.

Then again, the Skins can't really talk, because right now we're paying Hall many millions to be an OK corner.

Totally true. I'd take Carlos Rogers over Hall in a heartbeat, no doubt about it. Just completely bogus to claim that its Shanahan's fault he's not here.

If you're going to second guess Shanny/Allen for anything, I think the money we spent on Garcon/Morgan without addressing the secondary is fair game. I don't know how much the salary cap penalty is to blame for that, but in hindsight it definitely looks like we would have been better off going after a quality CB.

If our FO played their cards right, we could currently have Rodgers, DHall, Landry and Clark as our secondary.........

^^^^^^^

I didn't know we were playing: SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA....

but didn't do a damned thing.........

The tandem of Rogers and Hall was a good one. Hall needs to be paired with guys who can cover. Hall is a above average zone corner. When he can play in space facing the QB, he makes plays. But, he's a liability in man schemes.

When you have a guy like Carlos (his opposite) on the other side, you can do more things to disguise Hall's deficiencies. A true cover guy can prevent some of the other big plays.

Right now, everyone on our secondary can't cover anyone. And that equals swiss cheese.

tribeofjudah wrote:^^^^^^^

I didn't know we were playing: SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA....

but didn't do a damned thing.........

LOL.

I wish I had time to go back and pull some of the messages from when Carlos Rogers was actually here. I'm sure he had more than his share of "Carlos Sucks", "Cut Rogers" and "Rogers has Bricks for Hands" threads.

Now that he's gone, people seem to be mis-remembering him as Daryl Green.

riggofan wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:^^^^^^^

I didn't know we were playing: SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA....

but didn't do a damned thing.........

LOL.

I wish I had time to go back and pull some of the messages from when Carlos Rogers was actually here. I'm sure he had more than his share of "Carlos Sucks", "Cut Rogers" and "Rogers has Bricks for Hands" threads.

Now that he's gone, people seem to be mis-remembering him as Daryl Green.

True. He was known as stone hands back then. But, we had the luxury of having a great Defense, so we actually took coverage skills for granted. How arrogant we were. Bring back Greg Williams

It seems to me our biggest weakness is a slot corner and good safety play. We don't have anybody who can cover a quick slot-type WR, Hawkins killed us against Cincy, Amendola, Cruz, etc. We desperatly need a guy who can match-up in the slot. Our corners may not be the best on the outside but i think the slot and free safety our the biggest concerns. The teams we've done o.k against on defense have lacked a slot guy to take advantage of us. Living here in Denver and watching the Broncos lately, they scored a steal in undrafted player Chris Harris and we have to be able to do the same plus find a Free Safety.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I personally like Josh as a #2 corner. He's not the most gifted player, but he works his butt off and has a great attitude. I think the issue is we need a better #1 corner.

I suspect the concussion he sustained against the Rams has taken him down several notches. He's letting things get by him this year that he would have taken care of last year — last year I thought he was our best CB by far.

riggofan wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:^^^^^^^

I didn't know we were playing: SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA....

but didn't do a damned thing.........

LOL.

I wish I had time to go back and pull some of the messages from when Carlos Rogers was actually here. I'm sure he had more than his share of "Carlos Sucks", "Cut Rogers" and "Rogers has Bricks for Hands" threads.

Now that he's gone, people seem to be mis-remembering him as Daryl Green.

I actually did a limited back search to see. You'd be surprised. There was this thread: http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... rs&start=0

I sort of remember it as everyone hating on him, but it really wasn't that way. The general consensus was that he was a decent CB and with the secondary we have now -- I would replace our entire current secondary with "decent"...

tribeofjudah wrote:^^^^^^^

I didn't know we were playing: SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA....

but didn't do a damned thing.........

Not, just reminissing on the failures of our past and current FO........

fetus wrote:Letting Carlos go was the worst mistake shabby made

Rogers wasn't that good in coverage either.

riggofan wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:^^^^^^^

I didn't know we were playing: SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA....

but didn't do a damned thing.........

LOL.

I wish I had time to go back and pull some of the messages from when Carlos Rogers was actually here. I'm sure he had more than his share of "Carlos Sucks", "Cut Rogers" and "Rogers has Bricks for Hands" threads.

Now that he's gone, people seem to be mis-remembering him as Daryl Green.

1: They probably all know how to spell DARRELL Green... which, probably, also means that;
2: They know that Carlos Rogers was an EXCEPTIONAL cover corner, who, unfortunately, could not catch. He was also EXCELLENT in run support. No one will ever mistake him for Green... but those who recognized his cover skills knew that we would not be able to replace him easily... and, they were right. Our record suffers without him. Feel free to go back through those threads... you will find a couple of folks who understood that his cover skills were move valuable than the picks he lost.

aswas71788 wrote:

fetus wrote:Letting Carlos go was the worst mistake shabby made

Rogers wasn't that good in coverage either.

Please... show us the completion stats against him... if you dare.

aswas71788 wrote:

fetus wrote:Letting Carlos go was the worst mistake shabby made

Rogers wasn't that good in coverage either.

He was the best cover corner we had. I'm not sure what games you were watching.

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

riggofan wrote:

fetus wrote:Letting Carlos go was the worst mistake shabby made

Rogers couldn't WAIT to get out of DC. Complete B.S. to blame Shanny that he's not here.

Correct. He knew he was hitting a FA market hot for CBs and got his payday. At the time his play did not warrant the contract he would have needed to stay in DC.

And it should be noted that after a 6-pick season last year, he's still waiting for his first this year, and has dropped more than one in just the games I saw.

Then again, the Skins can't really talk, because right now we're paying Hall many millions to be an OK corner.

Totally true. I'd take Carlos Rogers over Hall in a heartbeat, no doubt about it. Just completely bogus to claim that its Shanahan's fault he's not here.

If you're going to second guess Shanny/Allen for anything, I think the money we spent on Garcon/Morgan without addressing the secondary is fair game. I don't know how much the salary cap penalty is to blame for that, but in hindsight it definitely looks like we would have been better off going after a quality CB.

If our FO played their cards right, we could currently have Rodgers, DHall, Landry and Clark as our secondary.........

Ok let me re-phrase this is language that it was meant to be. Letting Carlos go was one of the worst things that could have happens to our secondary when it did. I know shanny had no chance of making him stay and he was going to get his money elsewhere. I just wish that he could have got his money here. As far as what our secondary could look like that is neither here or there, and I am not one to blame shanny/every coach for out problems. And the money we spent in garcon may still be worth it, you can't help injury, there is nothing you can do about that, if your going to be mad at someone for being injured then you have bigger issues that need much more attention than your football opinions. O and we did adress the secondary, griffin meriweather and Jackson came in along with williams, one got suspended and one got hurt, meriwether and Jackson would be our starters at safety and I personally think this secondary would look a whole lot better with those two than it does now... But that's just me

And BTW if Clark would have still been here,Landry never would have

Irn-Bru wrote:I wouldn't cut him until the end of the year, though. I think he's been our best DB this season and we can't afford to see that unit decline any further than it has.

But at the end of this season, I hope we let him go — as I've hoped we'd do each of the last two off seasons.

For what it's worth (I can't access the stats), apparently ProFootballFocus has him rated as one of the worst corner backs in the NFL. From this link.

I'm not saying they're gospel, but I like the ProFootballFocus.com grades. Those guys watch every player and every play and offer clinical evaluations of what players are doing relative to what they're supposed to be doing. I think, given a large enough sample size, we can use them to help us get a sense of who's playing well and who's not in the NFL.

So far this season, Washington Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall ranks 95th overall out of the 99 cornerbacks PFF has evaluated. When you sort strictly by coverage grade (taking out penalties and performance against the run), Hall drops to 99th. Last year, PFF ranked Hall as the 66th-best cornerback in the league overall, 94th in coverage. And on Sunday, in the fourth quarter of a 27-12 loss to the Steelers in Pittsburgh, Hall lost his mind on an official and got ejected after costing his team 30 yards' worth of penalties.

Can't verify, but that's damning if true.

PulpExposure wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I wouldn't cut him until the end of the year, though. I think he's been our best DB this season and we can't afford to see that unit decline any further than it has.

But at the end of this season, I hope we let him go — as I've hoped we'd do each of the last two off seasons.

For what it's worth (I can't access the stats), apparently ProFootballFocus has him rated as one of the worst corner backs in the NFL. From this link.

I'm not saying they're gospel, but I like the ProFootballFocus.com grades. Those guys watch every player and every play and offer clinical evaluations of what players are doing relative to what they're supposed to be doing. I think, given a large enough sample size, we can use them to help us get a sense of who's playing well and who's not in the NFL.

So far this season, Washington Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall ranks 95th overall out of the 99 cornerbacks PFF has evaluated. When you sort strictly by coverage grade (taking out penalties and performance against the run), Hall drops to 99th. Last year, PFF ranked Hall as the 66th-best cornerback in the league overall, 94th in coverage. And on Sunday, in the fourth quarter of a 27-12 loss to the Steelers in Pittsburgh, Hall lost his mind on an official and got ejected after costing his team 30 yards' worth of penalties.

Can't verify, but that's damning if true.

I don't doubt it. I've never seen him tight on a receiver. He's simply not a cover corner.

^^^ maybe the move to safety should have been looked at a lot sooner ....

D. Hall Could be suspended for incident with ref

The only thing that might save D. Hall is the ref's blantant disregard for the rules while Hall was being manhandeled by Sanders, but than again, Hall may have shown too much disregard for professionalism with several too many f- bombs and threatening gestures.

Is this a bad thing if he is suspended? We will get a chance to see how much D. Hall is really worth to us.

SkinsJock wrote:^^^ maybe the move to safety should have been looked at a lot sooner ....

Does anybody know if Hall has been playing safety at all during the last few weeks?