That Unsportsmanlike at the End

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:44 pm

rskin72 wrote:Was a cluster that last 1:07 of the game was. I was at FEDEX....and first the officials tried to run 10 seconds off the game clock after the injury to Hank as the Skins had no more timeouts to use. However, this rule apparently only applies if the clock is under a minute, whereas the clock was at 1:07 for this. The ref's spoke with a couple of folks on the sidelines, then corrected the call. After we had marched the ball to the Bengals 19....RGIII was sacked. The fun began again after he spiked the ball to stop the clock with :07 left. Davis then had a false start penalty, and the next thing I know, the Bengal's team is walking across to shake hands as if the game was over. They thought that it would be a 10 second runoff. Apparently, one of the ref's told Mike Shanahan that the game was over also. I did not see what happened on the Redskins sideline as I sit across from them, but I then saw the ref's trying to get the Bengals back to their sideline.....and then we were hit with a unsportsmanlike conduct penalty of 20 yards. This added onto the false start of 5 yards. I do not recall the ref's saying anything on the PA, but trust me that the fans were letting their voice be heard, and were asking one another what happened. I was also listening to the broadcast, and that is where I first heard that the bench had received the penalty.

All I have to say is what a dumb, dumb mistake for a coach....let lone our offensive coordinator AND the coach's son....to make. Didn't I hear Mike speak about not losing your composure this past week in reference to the Morgan penalty last game? I am not saying we could have scored a TD....but it would have been a more realistic attempt without another 20 yards tacked on. I have a feeling that Kyle will be hearing from the league office about this......

As a team, we seem to make some really dumb mistakes at critical junctures in games.

Kyle was the one that pointed out to the stupid refs that there was no 10 sec run off after he heard the ref tell his dad the game was over.
Had Kyle said nothing... the game would have ended with the ball on the Bengals 34 after the run off, had Kyle not called the stupid ref stupid who knows what would have happened.

Granted Kyle went overboard, but in my mind it's the OC wanting one more shot at the endzone... and stupid was one of the nicer words that Kyle used when explaining to the ref their lack of knowledge of the rules. Maybe that's why it was a 20 yard penalty... they don't know the rules.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:26 pm

Especially when the NFL just came out the past week and warned coaches about abusing the refs

They aren't refs... therefore, I'm not sure this applies...

just saying.

DaSkinz Baby · Post by **DaSkinz Baby** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:29 pm

This is a shame, not only was he right, but the call was bogus. The new ref's suck and I think that Kyle will get a nice fine, wonder what else we will be cheated out of next week.....2 weeks being screwed, 2 losses...

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:38 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:This is a shame, not only was he right, but the call was bogus. The new ref's suck and I think that Kyle will get a nice fine, wonder what else we will be cheated out of next week.....2 weeks being screwed, 2 losses...

Clearly the refs lost control and were dazed and confused at the end, I'm with you there, but how did they cost us the game exactly? They did in fact not run off 10 either time, they didn't cause Griffin to fumble, Kyle's "colorful" language is in fact a penalty. And they called the rest of the game as well as the regular refs who everyone seems to be forgetting both suck and hate us. One play they went so far last year as to overturn a call that went for us and the review clearly showed was correct.

DaSkinz Baby · Post by **DaSkinz Baby** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:47 pm

KazooSkinsFan that fumble recovery by Josh that should not have been blown dead, on the fumble Ben-Jarvis Green didn't touch him nor any other Bengal, we have that TD we are up 7 and the whole outcome changes.

DaSkinz Baby · Post by **DaSkinz Baby** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:49 pm

I also saw a lot of blatent holding on Kerrigan that wasn't called! I mean the defense playcalling stinks but it's hard enough to win when your defensive coordinator sucks at play calling but when the ref's are screwing you too, you simply can't win........

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:57 pm

When the season first started, I gotta say I couldn't tell the difference between the regular refs and the scabs. These past two weeks however...

They nailed us at the end of this game. The onside was bogus, I don't care what TV said, that was our ball.he had the ball at the tenth yard line and fell to almost the twelfth.

Then there was the lack of pass interference on Hankerson because the ball was unwatchable. Well of course it was unwatchable; they were impeding his progress. It would be like the defender tackling the guy before the ball got there and the refs saying "well, he couldn't have caught it from the ground like that."

They made sure they called it right for Cincy though.

The 10-second runoff fiasco was just another example of how I'll-prepared these guys are for the specific game situations. Anybody can call false-start, or holding or any number of the basic penalties, but the veteran officials know the nuances of how the rules apply when it comes to the ten-second run offs, what's reviewable, what's automatically reviewed, how many challenges each team has, late game clock management, etc.

One way or another they were going to steal the game from us. They tried to end it with the runoff, but when Kyle called them on it, they just penalized him for being right and gave them one shot from 75 yards away.

Don't get me wrong. Haslett has a lot of blame in this as well, but these refs gotta go.

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:59 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I also saw a lot of blatent holding on Kerrigan that wasn't called! I mean the defense playcalling stinks but it's hard enough to win when your defensive coordinator sucks at play calling but when the ref's are screwing you too, you simply can't win........

Yep, saw that too. I thought my wife's head was going to explode because she kept pointing it out and just when she thought they finally called it, it was pass interference on us.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:59 pm

1niksder wrote:Kyle was the one that pointed out to the stupid refs that there was no 10 sec run off after he heard the ref tell his dad the game was over.
Had Kyle said nothing... the game would have ended with the ball on the Bengals 34 after the run off, had Kyle not called the stupid ref stupid who knows what would have happened.

Granted Kyle went overboard, but in my mind it's the OC wanting one more shot at the endzone... and stupid was one of the nicer words that Kyle used when explaining to the ref their lack of knowledge of the rules. Maybe that's why it was a 20 yard penalty... they don't know the rules.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:59 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:They nailed us at the end of this game. The onside was bogus, I don't care what TV said, that was our ball.he had the ball at the tenth yard line and fell to almost the twelfth.

Then there was the lack of pass interference on Hankerson because the ball was unwatchable. Well of course it was unwatchable; they were impeding his progress. It would be like the defender tackling the guy before the ball got there and the refs saying "well, he couldn't have caught it from the ground like that."

I still think it sounds like the regular refs.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:01 pm

rskin72 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
rskin72 wrote:All I have to say is what a dumb, dumb mistake for a coach....let lone our offensive coordinator AND the coach's son....to make. Didn't I hear Mike speak about not losing your composure this past week in reference to the Morgan penalty last game? I am not saying we could have scored a TD....but it would have been a more realistic attempt without another 20 yards tacked on. I have a feeling that Kyle will be hearing from the league office about this......
I'm still not clear what the penalty was for. Every coach in the league right now is spending half the game berrating the refs, with the loudest, red-faced yelling I've ever seen. I'm sure they've heard it all, but I guess Shanny the Younger must have crossed some line.

My sis-in-law got married yesterday, and I'm actually kind of glad I missed the game. Seeing RGIII take us all the way to the 20 on a last-minute drive, only to have this happen would have been painful to watch.
As others have mentioned.....Kyle apparently confronted the head ref and basically cursed him out.....stating that he lacked a pair, and calling him a F****** P****. That was what I heard while listening to the Redskins post game show while driving back to Va. Bch. While I guess we could debate whether or not that should have been a penalty as I see other coaches cursing ref's (both regular and replacement) all the time....certainly an assistant coach should have realized the circumstances better and let the head coach handle the situation. Especially when the NFL just came out the past week and warned coaches about abusing the refs, and after the Morgan play and fall out from last weekend. IMHO.

OK, so let's say that's what happened. I have a hard time believing that in all the rest of the yelling I've seen a coach hasn't let one derrogatory word slip about the refs. Or maybe they have had just enough control not to do that, but when a ref tried to end our game a play early it was just too much for Kyle to take.

I don't really blame him, even though he was in the wrong. It's gotten so bad that it's comical now, and we're only 1/6th of the way through the season.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:04 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:My sis-in-law got married yesterday, and I'm actually kind of glad I missed the game. Seeing RGIII take us all the way to the 20 on a last-minute drive, only to have this happen would have been painful to watch.
It was, but it was totally worth watching the game. RG3 keeps showing he's the real deal. Getting to the 20 said so much more positive then the negative of things falling apart at the 20. We have a great future ahead of us.

Ironically the refs weren't too bad until the last couple minutes of the game. They were pretty much as good as the regular refs, who people seem to be forgetting have major issues as well and they hate our guts. Unfortunately at the end they were dazed and confused about running off clock, not running it off. I just wish Kyle had said that to the real refs, they deserve it way more.

I'll definitely be watching the game as soon as I get the chance. I'll just make sure to turn it off when it's 1st and 10 at the 19 with a few seconds left . . . and pretend RGIII ran it in and the Redskins lived happily ever after . . .

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:27 pm

How hard does a blocker have to pull on the back of Kerrigan's jersey to get a holding call?

Apparently, Cincy WR Green is the new Michael Irvin... how many times did he push off yesterday?

Did anyone see a facemask touched on that call against Hall?

Hankeson was interfered with not once, but TWICE on that play... that was a double opportunity for the ref to get that call right...

OTOH... Haslett's game plan was horrendous... and Kyle's gameplan wasn't much better...

Are we ever going to get a break on injuries? Why are we using a retiree to protect the blind side????

On a positive note, at least Cincy didn't spend the game cheap shotting after the play...

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:07 pm

Countertrey wrote:How hard does a blocker have to pull on the back of Kerrigan's jersey to get a holding call?

Apparently, Cincy WR Green is the new Michael Irvin... how many times did he push off yesterday?

Did anyone see a facemask touched on that call against Hall?

Hankeson was interfered with not once, but TWICE on that play... that was a double opportunity for the ref to get that call right...

OTOH... Haslett's game plan was horrendous... and Kyle's gameplan wasn't much better...

Are we ever going to get a break on injuries? Why are we using a retiree to protect the blind side????

On a positive note, at least Cincy didn't spend the game cheap shotting after the play...

What about the one that costed the Skins points?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:29 pm

1niksder wrote:
Countertrey wrote:How hard does a blocker have to pull on the back of Kerrigan's jersey to get a holding call?

Apparently, Cincy WR Green is the new Michael Irvin... how many times did he push off yesterday?

Did anyone see a facemask touched on that call against Hall?

Hankeson was interfered with not once, but TWICE on that play... that was a double opportunity for the ref to get that call right...

OTOH... Haslett's game plan was horrendous... and Kyle's gameplan wasn't much better...

Are we ever going to get a break on injuries? Why are we using a retiree to protect the blind side????

On a positive note, at least Cincy didn't spend the game cheap shotting after the play...
What about the one that costed the Skins points?

I considered it... however (as, interestingly, happened SEVERAL times in the broadcast with, for example, several non-calls, and several other calls that were clearly wrong), this play was not followed up... when I saw it, it appeared that there COULD have been contact with a Bengal while he was on the ground...
BUT... there was no attempt by CBS to replay from a different angle... I suspect (because it happened several times) that CBS... perhaps others... had orders to minimize replays on certain situations to minimize potential further evidence of the incompetence of these officials...

Beyond that, no point whining... once blown dead... it's moot... and, yes, the Skins were probably screwed.

Still looking for explainations of mutiple phantom calls... but, not holding my breath.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:41 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:This is a shame, not only was he right, but the call was bogus. The new ref's suck and I think that Kyle will get a nice fine, wonder what else we will be cheated out of next week.....2 weeks being screwed, 2 losses...
Clearly the refs lost control and were dazed and confused at the end, I'm with you there, but how did they cost us the game exactly? They did in fact not run off 10 either time, they didn't cause Griffin to fumble, Kyle's "colorful" language is in fact a penalty. And they called the rest of the game as well as the regular refs who everyone seems to be forgetting both suck and hate us. One play they went so far last year as to overturn a call that went for us and the review clearly showed was correct.

There is a cause and effect thing going on here ... if the officials had a clue, then they wouldn't make the wrong call that generated the tirade. Of course, that doesn't "excuse" the error of hurting your team by loosing your cool ... but it was all made possible by the failure of the officials to understand the rules.

One could say the same thing about last week. Finnegan is a royal %$^, and you can bet that certain individuals like him who are already predisposed to extracurricular activities during and after the whistle are taking advantage of the situation, and engaging those tactics even more. Morgan lost his temper, and he was at fault for doing so ... but perhaps the frustration level that caused the outburst wouldn't have been there had the officials kept tight control over on field behavior.

This week wasn't as bad as last week's game, but the indecision on the part of officials is very obvious .. and such indecision leads to a breakdown in control .... when the officials loose respect of the coaching staffs, you can only expect that the players already have lost respect.

Furthermore, there is no rhyme, reason or consistency in what constitutes a penalty with these replacement officials ... incidental contact being called pass interference, while a thorough mugging isn't called. And it's pretty well known that "holding" could be called on almost every play .... but it's the consistency of what is called holding that allows the players to play within the rules as decided by the officials. Without that consistency, there is selective and subjective chaos .... which pretty much defines what we are seeing across the league right now.

Belichick was very close to physically assaulting one of the officials ... he certainly did grab at him. The situation is clearly out of control, and it is affecting the game, and no one can say definitively that a particular call did or did not affect the outcome of a game, because we don't have the luxury of knowing if RG# would have thrown a TD pass from the the Redskin 40 yard line rather than from the Cincy 40. That 20 yards is kind of a big deal.

Last week, the call on morgan definitely did affect the outcome.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:55 pm

I do not know why anybody is defending the scabs and comparing them with veteran officials!!!!

Sure the regulars made mistakes too but they do not lose control of games. They do not make so many mistakes and they do know the freaking rules.

The worst call was a NON-CALL in my book:

A double interference call not made on a very long pass ( I do not remember if it was Robinson or Hankerson).

As soon as I get the video, I will post it. Even the CBS commentators said: THAT WAS AN INTERFERENCE CALL IF THERE WAS EVER ONE.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:03 pm

Calling the guys that were working the games the past month, NFL officials, is a joke

maybe they have not actually caused teams to lose games but they have definitely put the players' health at risk and they have hurt the product on the field

the ONLY players that are liking these idiots are the guys that play dirty

Godahell has to get this resolved - this is pathetic

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:09 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:They nailed us at the end of this game. The onside was bogus, I don't care what TV said, that was our ball.he had the ball at the tenth yard line and fell to almost the twelfth.

Then there was the lack of pass interference on Hankerson because the ball was unwatchable. Well of course it was unwatchable; they were impeding his progress. It would be like the defender tackling the guy before the ball got there and the refs saying "well, he couldn't have caught it from the ground like that."
I still think it sounds like the regular refs.

Wow, how did I miss the auto correct here. I meant uncatchable but let it go as unwatchable. Maybe I should apply to be a replacement official...lord knows I got the eyes for it!

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:15 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:I do not know why anybody is defending the scabs and comparing them with veteran officials!!!!

Sure the regulars made mistakes too but they do not lose control of games. They do not make so many mistakes and they do know the freaking rules.

What about not telling Gibbs he couldn't call two time outs when he ... asked them ... and then calling a penalty? We had a bunch of calls last year that were clearly wrong ... after they reviewed replay. The regular refs clearly let teams take more shots at us then they tolerated from us. They call our D-backs way tighter. I'm not defending the replacements, I'm just saying the regulars s-u-c-k too. And at least I see nothing in the replacements that they have an agenda against us as the regular refs make clear they do. I'm not only "comparing them." I'm saying I'll keep these. Yeah, they need some classroom time on the rules. But there's more to work with.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:19 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:They nailed us at the end of this game. The onside was bogus, I don't care what TV said, that was our ball.he had the ball at the tenth yard line and fell to almost the twelfth.

Then there was the lack of pass interference on Hankerson because the ball was unwatchable. Well of course it was unwatchable; they were impeding his progress. It would be like the defender tackling the guy before the ball got there and the refs saying "well, he couldn't have caught it from the ground like that."
I still think it sounds like the regular refs.
Wow, how did I miss the auto correct here. I meant uncatchable but let it go as unwatchable. Maybe I should apply to be a replacement official...lord knows I got the eyes for it!

I thought it was clear what you meant, and the auto-correct gets us all.

On the refs, the two points I will agree on is that the replacement refs are letting control of the game get away from them and they need classroom time on the rules. They are clearly related, the indecision is clearly a part of their losing control of the game.

But people are forgetting how bad the old ones were and how they HATE us. The replacements will get better, the regular ones won't.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:25 pm

RayNAustin wrote:This week wasn't as bad as last week's game, but the indecision on the part of officials is very obvious .. and such indecision leads to a breakdown in control .... when the officials loose respect of the coaching staffs, you can only expect that the players already have lost respect.

I agree with this and most of your other points. Though I don't agree that what anyone else does is a justification for people's behavior. Kyle screwed up. That someone else screwed up too or first doesn't change that.

RayNAustin wrote:Last week, the call on morgan definitely did affect the outcome.

It was the correct call, so I'm not sure what point you're arguing here. Unless it's the same point that a bad non-call preceded it. Which would be true, but irrelevant as a defense for knocking the team out of the game. Frankly I see no more likelyhood the regular refs would have made that call on Finnegin.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:29 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:I do not know why anybody is defending the scabs and comparing them with veteran officials!!!!

Sure the regulars made mistakes too but they do not lose control of games. They do not make so many mistakes and they do know the freaking rules.
What about not telling Gibbs he couldn't call two time outs when he ... asked them ... and then calling a penalty? We had a bunch of calls last year that were clearly wrong ... after they reviewed replay. The regular refs clearly let teams take more shots at us then they tolerated from us. They call our D-backs way tighter. I'm not defending the replacements, I'm just saying the regulars s-u-c-k too. And at least I see nothing in the replacements that they have an agenda against us as the regular refs make clear they do. I'm not only "comparing them." I'm saying I'll keep these. Yeah, they need some classroom time on the rules. But there's more to work with.

The NFL, indeed, has a problem with it's officials... but the problem with the regular officials can be corrected by making them full time... vs part time, weekends only...

You cannot be more wrong about these replacements... they are simply not competent. 16 of 20 calls that were challenged by coaches yesterday were overturned... that's a pathetic showing.

Did you know that one was pulled from the Panthers game last week, because he posted on Facebook how excited he was to be calling the game for HIS Panthers????? Seriously... how well have these guys been screened???

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:46 pm

Countertrey wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:I do not know why anybody is defending the scabs and comparing them with veteran officials!!!!

Sure the regulars made mistakes too but they do not lose control of games. They do not make so many mistakes and they do know the freaking rules.
What about not telling Gibbs he couldn't call two time outs when he ... asked them ... and then calling a penalty? We had a bunch of calls last year that were clearly wrong ... after they reviewed replay. The regular refs clearly let teams take more shots at us then they tolerated from us. They call our D-backs way tighter. I'm not defending the replacements, I'm just saying the regulars s-u-c-k too. And at least I see nothing in the replacements that they have an agenda against us as the regular refs make clear they do. I'm not only "comparing them." I'm saying I'll keep these. Yeah, they need some classroom time on the rules. But there's more to work with.
The NFL, indeed, has a problem with it's officials... but the problem with the regular officials can be corrected by making them full time... vs part time, weekends only...

You cannot be more wrong about these replacements... they are simply not competent. 16 of 20 calls that were challenged by coaches yesterday were overturned... that's a pathetic showing.

Did you know that one was pulled from the Panthers game last week, because he posted on Facebook how excited he was to be calling the game for HIS Panthers????? Seriously... how well have these guys been screened???

When I say they are both bad, criticizing the replacements doesn't logically refute that. I'm just saying... And I don't see how making them full time is going to eliminate their agenda against us, which is frankly pathetic for the whole NFL. No matter how much they hate Danny, the Redskins are an NFL team with fans ... us ... who they are willing to throw under the bus to get him back for whatever they feel he's done to them.

While I personally think that the NFL should have full time refs, I don't see how it's a legitimate process for that to happen because their union goes on strike under government protection and demands it. If the NFL wanted better officiating, they would do it. They have plenty of money. If the refs don't want to work under the conditions their employers want them to, they should find jobs with employers they do want to work for.

I would have a far better attitude about them though without their agenda. Again, whatever they perceive Danny has done to them, the players and the fans did nothing. We're stuck both with Danny and their agenda, and we can't fire Danny. If he's that bad, the NFL should deal with it without punishing us.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:48 pm

cleg wrote:Most of us in the stands thought the game was over after the penalty also.

No one around me. I made sure everyone knew they couldn't run ten seconds off (even though they should have after the hankerson injury). Most of the crowd in my section knew the deal without being told.