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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:48 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Chris Luva Luva wrote:UK Skins Fan wrote:riggofan wrote:The Ravens game was REALLY bad. And the stupid refs kept calling offsetting personal fouls when the players got into it. If you're punishing NO ONE then what's the incentive to get under control.
Interesting point. Offsetting penalties are a problem. But arbitrarily punishing one party in order to ensure that SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, is punished, can't be right?
What is galling about yesterday is that, to my burgundy eyes, the Rams instigated most of the dirty play, but the Redskins were penalised more overall.
I agree Riggo.
UK, it can be effective if you do it early in the game when it has little impact. You don't let all that BS fly and then all of a sudden crack-down on the 4th like our refs did.
And yet they did call both teams for lame personal fouls on sideline hits. The only consistency was their inconsistency.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:43 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Josh had the reaction because he felt the play was dirty. I realize that people go pretty far astray of topics, but trying to run it that tightly is a bit much. And the title doesn't say "refs" it says did they play dirty.
1. My reply wasn't in "moderator mode", just as a poster.
2. I dunno why I posted that... It's Monday and I'm losing my mind. My apologies.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:09 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Chris Luva Luva wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Josh had the reaction because he felt the play was dirty. I realize that people go pretty far astray of topics, but trying to run it that tightly is a bit much. And the title doesn't say "refs" it says did they play dirty.
1. My reply wasn't in "moderator mode", just as a poster.
2. I dunno why I posted that... It's Monday and I'm losing my mind. My apologies.
I understand you want to clarify, but I didn't take it as a mod warning or anything, we're good.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:27 pm
by riggofan
UK Skins Fan wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:UK Skins Fan wrote:
Interesting point. Offsetting penalties are a problem. But arbitrarily punishing one party in order to ensure that SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, is punished, can't be right?
What is galling about yesterday is that, to my burgundy eyes, the Rams instigated most of the dirty play, but the Redskins were penalised more overall.
I agree Riggo.
UK, it can be effective if you do it early in the game when it has little impact. You don't let all that BS fly and then all of a sudden crack-down on the 4th like our refs did.
Well, that clearly requires a level of judgment that is well beyond these replacement officials. I agree - you don't let it get out of hand, and then start cracking down in the 4th quarter. Nobody has yet come up with a satisfactory mechanism for punishing two players involved in a fracas, during the course of a game. Sending both players to the locker room would be equitable, but disproportionate. Punishing one with a 15yd penalty certainly isn't equitable, but might be the only practical solution. Fines mean nothing to these players.
I think the "non-equitable" penalty is what we've usually gotten from the pro referees. It stinks if your side is taking the penalty, but little question that it works. No matter which team gets penalized, both sides seem to get the message that the refs aren't putting up with the personal fouls. And nobody wants to face their coach after they just set their team back 15 yards.
I'm sure the refs don't always get that penalty right. But I would think down there on the field they have a pretty good sense of what is going on between the players, who is talking, etc;
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:47 pm
by Irn-Bru
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.
In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.
What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.
+1
Took the words right out of my mouth, Chris. I watched those two games yesterday, and it seemed to me that the refs simply lost control.
The Rams played a particularly dirty game yesterday. Very frustrating to watch.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:11 pm
by SkinsJock
Irn-Bru wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.
In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.
What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.
+1
Took the words right out of my mouth, Chris. I watched those two games yesterday, and it seemed to me that the refs simply lost control.
The Rams played a particularly dirty game yesterday. Very frustrating to watch.
I agree with both of you ... but
I would add that Jeff prepared his team to play hard and they were able to get away with being dirty because the refs allowed it
Playing dirty is not the HC's fault or the player's problem when the stupid scab refs allow it
If the refs had reined in the players we would have seen the coaches react accordingly
why is anyone that finds Jeff Fisher's encouraging his players to play aggressively not also pointing out that Jeff sat Jackson after his stupid spike
the dirty play should have been more firmly controlled by the refs NOT the coaches
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:58 pm
by Red_One43
Refs let Chris Long get away with taunting after the Josh Morgan Flagging
The point of the article is not that the flag on Josh was wrong, it is Long, in plain sight of the ref, taunting the Skins bench. If you wait long enough for the video to end, you will see a ref coming over to tell Long to stop. The article says that he stopped for the moment, but started again in plain sight of the official that told him to stop.
The NFL warned teams not to try to take advantage of the replacement Refs, clearly Fischer's game plan worked and they got the W, but he may be hearing from the NFL after they review this tape. They were clearly targeting RGIII especially the elbow by Dunbar with RGIII on the ground.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:27 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
The more I read about this game the more ot bugs me.. the cheap shots all day to Griffin make me hate fisher and his stupid lambs.. wish nothing but the worst for everyone on the staff.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:28 am
by Bob 0119
SkinsJock wrote:
why is anyone that finds Jeff Fisher's encouraging his players to play aggressively not also pointing out that Jeff sat Jackson after his stupid spike
Jackson is listed with a groin injury, and it didn't seem to stop the player behavior.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:32 am
by FanofallthatisGibbs
+1 for me too.
I voted as "just football" because the dirty playing only ensued because the refs allowed it. In a world with no rules, chaos will take over.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:02 am
by SkinsJock
The coaches are not at fault when the refs have plainly lost control
some fans here do not understand that coaches and players of a violent game are not going to start toning down their play if the refs are not going to make them
Jeff Fisher is a very good NFL coach and has the respect of most NFL coaches
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:23 am
by UK Skins Fan
SkinsJock wrote:The coaches are not at fault when the refs have plainly lost control
some fans here do not understand that coaches and players of a violent game are not going to start toning down their play if the refs are not going to make them
Jeff Fisher is a very good NFL coach and has the respect of most NFL coaches
I think we all agree that the officials lost it in our game, and in others. Their inability/unwillingness to crack down on the late hits and extracurricular nonsense definitely resulted in a very dangerous environment on the field on Sunday.
But Jeff Fisher's teams DO have a history of playing the game, erm, "on the edge", and it is surely no coincidence that this is how the Rams now play the game?
But isn't it a sad world if the players themselves are incapable of policing themselves to any degree? Is that really the world that these players live in? Perhaps the NFLPA could do something useful and remind its members that they are competing against each other, and that a little self discipline might be sensible until this ridiculous dispute with the officials is resolved.
The blame lies with everybody here.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:32 am
by Deadskins
The NFLPA should be siding with the ref's union and refuse to play until the NFL comes to terms. How can they not realize that if they let the NFL bust the ref's union, that it only hurts themselves in future negotiations?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:11 pm
by markshark84
The Rams played a good game trying to get in RGIII's head and playing physical. They treated that game like it was a playoff game.
It's football. It's a physical game. The replacement officials were letting players get away with it. It doesn't make it right, but the skins should have reacted accordingly. They shouldn't have immediately retaliated (see idiot Josh Wilson's dumb retaliation). They instead should have waited and been the initiator after a couple plays (or done what Fletcher did by forcing a TO on the next play).
Only the losers cry about how the winners played dirty. We should have tacken notes. That is precisely how you beat better teams.
That said, we REALLY need the real Refs back. This wasn't the only game where players were taking advantage of non-confident refs. The same stunts were pulled in the PHI-BAL game as well. This league DESPERATELY needs their REAL Refs back.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:38 pm
by HarleyHog
The refs allowed the Rams to act like they were doing scenes for a re-remake of The Longest Yard. The shot on Davis' head while defenseless particularlly sucked. but so did all the late shots on RGIII and the guy throwing himself bodily on top after RGIII slid and surrendered. Has the NFL fined anybody?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:48 pm
by Irn-Bru
UK Skins Fan wrote:The blame lies with everybody here.
Personally, I blame you for that.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:50 pm
by Irn-Bru
Red_One43 wrote:Refs let Chris Long get away with taunting after the Josh Morgan Flagging
The point of the article is not that the flag on Josh was wrong, it is Long, in plain sight of the ref, taunting the Skins bench. If you wait long enough for the video to end, you will see a ref coming over to tell Long to stop. The article says that he stopped for the moment, but started again in plain sight of the official that told him to stop.
The NFL warned teams not to try to take advantage of the replacement Refs, clearly Fischer's game plan worked and they got the W, but he may be hearing from the NFL after they review this tape. They were clearly targeting RGIII especially the elbow by Dunbar with RGIII on the ground.
Horrible. This has gotten so out of hand.
I'm glad the Redskins didn't sink to that level. I've always hated dirty play.
The elbow to RGIII's head, the late hit on RGIII that wasn't called, the head shot on Fred Davis, the rollover on Fletcher, the push in Morgan's face that led to his retaliation, Long's taunting of the Skins bench . . . they all pile up. It's shameful.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:02 pm
by welch
Hire Joe Gibbs temporarily to teach smash-mouth football.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:43 pm
by Bob 0119
Deadskins wrote:The NFLPA should be siding with the ref's union and refuse to play until the NFL comes to terms. How can they not realize that if they let the NFL bust the ref's union, that it only hurts themselves in future negotiations?
The same way they convinced the Union to side with them over the Redskins and Cowgirls massive cap penalties...
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:55 pm
by UK Skins Fan
Irn-Bru wrote:UK Skins Fan wrote:The blame lies with everybody here.
Personally, I blame you for that.
Well, that's your fault.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:53 pm
by Red_One43
For week two, home teams were 14-2. Could that be that the home teams were getting those extra calls or non-calls like the non call on the taunting of the Redskin's bench after the Josh Morgan penalty?
This question was raised by the SPorts Reporters on ESPN 980 DC local.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:58 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
Wow interesting.. I'm going to have to redo my hognostications with that in mind.
Off topic -shoot me-
BUT....
Red1: any inside info on Garçon??
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:38 pm
by Red_One43
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Wow interesting.. I'm going to have to redo my hognostications with that in mind.
Off topic -shoot me-
BUT....
Red1: any inside info on Garçon??
Inside Info?
The only info I get is on the internet or radio. Anyways - Nothing new on Garcon from Garcon's twitter, internet or radio.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:58 pm
by Red_One43
Keim on Ram's Dirty Play
…Yes, the Rams did a lot of extracurricular activity after the play. No, I’m not going to point out each one. On the intentional grounding penalty, Jo-Lunn Dunbar pressed on Griffin’s helmet as he was on the ground. I saw Laurinaitis a few times either lay too long on Morris or grab onto his ankle as he stood up (he laid on Santana Moss, too). On the third play of the fourth quarter Finnegan jawed with Morgan after the play, even though the former wasn’t involved in it. On the Redskins’ next series Laurinaitis held Morgan’s foot a little longer than appreciated. Another time in the fourth quarter Finnegan ran up to the play as it was ending and shoved Kory Lichtentsteiger hard in the back. An unnecessary shot as ‘Steiger had slowed and the play had stopped. Finnegan dove at Griffin as he slid – starting his dive after Griffin had started to slide. Point is, it happened all game and a couple times with Morgan. The Rams were baiting the Redskins and eventually they reeled in Morgan.
… After Morgan’s 15-yard penalty, defensive end Eugene Sims stood about five yards away and applauded in his direction. Mike Shanahan was not doing the same.
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:32 pm
by SkinsJock
Red_One43 wrote:Keim on Ram's Dirty Play
…Yes, the Rams did a lot of extracurricular activity after the play. No, I’m not going to point out each one. On the intentional grounding penalty, Jo-Lunn Dunbar pressed on Griffin’s helmet as he was on the ground. I saw Laurinaitis a few times either lay too long on Morris or grab onto his ankle as he stood up (he laid on Santana Moss, too). On the third play of the fourth quarter Finnegan jawed with Morgan after the play, even though the former wasn’t involved in it. On the Redskins’ next series Laurinaitis held Morgan’s foot a little longer than appreciated. Another time in the fourth quarter Finnegan ran up to the play as it was ending and shoved Kory Lichtentsteiger hard in the back. An unnecessary shot as ‘Steiger had slowed and the play had stopped. Finnegan dove at Griffin as he slid – starting his dive after Griffin had started to slide. Point is, it happened all game and a couple times with Morgan. The Rams were baiting the Redskins and eventually they reeled in Morgan.
… After Morgan’s 15-yard penalty, defensive end Eugene Sims stood about five yards away and applauded in his direction. Mike Shanahan was not doing the same.
i'm not sure i understand - all those hi-lited, are players - Mike Shanahan is a coach - what's your point here?
we all understand that Jeff Fisher has ALWAYS been a VERY aggressive coach and he surely got his players motivated for this week after what happened last week in Detroit - that's his job
the players have all seen that the refs are not going to make the calls = whose fault is it ....