Rumour Mill: Hankerson & Cooley

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:57 pm

Not to mention, none of us have any evidence that they're not. Camp hasn't even started yet and we haven't seen any game action. Last year, you could see that Cool

ey wasn't healthy. So I'll wait and see.

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:45 pm

Hooligan wrote:If ey is healthy, he's arguably our most reliable receiver. Hank, as a rookie, put up a 100 yard game when fed the ball. If someone wants to question their durability and whether they're physically able to play to their potential, that's fine, but to write them off before camp is just silly.

These guys can both play ball, and I'm not going to be surprised if they both have big seasons.

yup! my thoughts exactly!

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:38 am

Look, you guys can say whatever you want and I will obviously debate it, but I find both of these guys irrelevant with what we are doing.

Pull this thread up later if they somehow make a huge impact but I see them as non factors. Still.

rskin72 · Post by **rskin72** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:50 am

With Hankerson, hope was based more on potential than proven product. With Cool

ey, hope was to return to a proven, consistent state as TE. I think Cool

ey will be done in not necessarily because of injury, but because of cap related nonsense in conjunction with decline in performance whether injury or age related.

Personally, I would like to see Cool

ey return to form as a reliable outlet for RGIII. Would be a bit of a sad day if he gets released this season. HAnkerson doesn't have that fan base popularity (yet). Either way this works out, I think that TE and WR are both positions where there is a lot of quality competition.....if either is not on top of their game....or are still recuperating from injuries....think that there will be no shortage of others to take advantage of the opportunity.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:36 am

The issue with Cool

ey is that if he isn't healthy, he's got a big contract number. Something of which the Redskins don't have a lot of and given his lack of production, it may be wise for the Redskins to restructure his contract to a more cap friendly number, give him a few more years and go from there. That way if you chose to trade him, it won't kill you.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:48 am

ATX_Skins wrote:Look, you guys can say whatever you want and I will obviously debate it, but I find both of these guys irrelevant with what we are doing.

I can see your case with Cool

ey somewhat given Fred Davis' play last year. Not sure I could buy that Hankerson is irrelevant to what the Redskins are doing though. He's a young guy at a position of need that they spent a 3d round pick on last year.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:48 pm

Someone wake me up the first time Davis out performs Cool

ey when

ey is healthy. It hasn't happened yet. Heck Cool

eys knee was an issue for the better part of the 2010 season and only two TEs had better seasons than him (and neither were Fred Davis.

People act like it has been years since Cool

ey had been dominant. It was one season.

Davis may end up being the #1 TE for the Skins this season, but he had never proven he can be more productive than a healthy Cool

ey.

Non-factor... Just retarded!

If the coaches thought Cool

ey was likely to be a non-factor, with the cap number he has, he would be gone!

Niles Paul looks more like a replacement for Davis. If Davis doesn't sign a long term deal by 4pm today, he may be starting his last year with the Skins! If the Skins don't want to commit to FD long term, then maybe they have more faith in Cool

ey than him.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:49 pm

Someone wake me up the first time Davis out performs Cool

ey when

ey is healthy. It hasn't happened yet. Heck Cool

eys knee was an issue for the better part of the 2010 season and only two TEs had better seasons than him (and neither were Fred Davis.

People act like it has been years since Cool

ey had been dominant. It was one season.

Davis may end up being the #1 TE for the Skins this season, but he had never proven he can be more productive than a healthy Cool

ey.

Non-factor... Just retarded!

If the coaches thought Cool

ey was likely to be a non-factor, with the cap number he has, he would be gone!

Niles Paul looks more like a replacement for Davis. If Davis doesn't sign a long term deal by 4pm today, he may be starting his last year with the Skins! If the Skins don't want to commit to FD long term, then maybe they have more faith in Cool

ey than him.

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:09 pm

I happen to think this WILL be Davis' last season with the Skins. I don't think they like the threat of the full year suspension and if Niles Paul can play at all I could easily see Shanny being comfortable with Paul and/or Cool

ey/draft pick/mid-level type FA.

If the starter of this thread is correct I would worry about Hankerson. I was really excited about him when they drafted him and was hoping he would be the #1 guy. I guess we will see.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:19 pm

cleg wrote:I happen to think this WILL be Davis' last season with the Skins. I don't think they like the threat of the full year suspension and if Niles Paul can play at all I could easily see Shanny being comfortable with Paul and/or ey/draft pick/mid-level type FA.

If the starter of this thread is correct I would worry about Hankerson. I was really excited about him when they drafted him and was hoping he would be the #1 guy. I guess we will see.

To be a successful franchise, you've got to figure out how to get Fred under contract. If you then elect to trade him, your hope is that whatever contract you sign him to is cap friendly and worthy of the compensation you'll receive on the trade. That goes for Chris Cool

ey as well. Get his contract cap friendly and trade friendly so you have the flexibility to make something happen if you need to.

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:37 pm

cleg wrote:If the starter of this thread is correct I would worry about Hankerson. I was really excited about him when they drafted him and was hoping he would be the #1 guy. I guess we will see.

Last season made me think we had another Malcolm Kelly scenario. That is, until I remembered that Hank actually got on the field and produced.

I think that even IF Hank turns out to be fragile and injury-prone, he'll be a legit threat on the field in a deep WR corps. Maybe it'll help keep his contracts reasonably low? Maybe if he puts together a good season or two, but is injury prone, he'll be trade material?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:41 pm

I love how people become so entrenched in an opinion of which they have no valid evidence to support. Lmao

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:31 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I love how people become so entrenched in an opinion of which they have no valid evidence to support. Lmao

+1

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:17 pm

frankcal20 wrote:The issue with ey is that if he isn't healthy, he's got a big contract number. Something of which the Redskins don't have a lot of and given his lack of production, it may be wise for the Redskins to restructure his contract to a more cap friendly number, give him a few more years and go from there. That way if you chose to trade him, it won't kill you.

i hope, if anything, this is what happens.... give the captain of chaos a chance if not restructure his contract and give him a chance to prove he is still that go to beast we all have come to love

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:20 pm

cowboykillerzRED wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:The issue with ey is that if he isn't healthy, he's got a big contract number. Something of which the Redskins don't have a lot of and given his lack of production, it may be wise for the Redskins to restructure his contract to a more cap friendly number, give him a few more years and go from there. That way if you chose to trade him, it won't kill you.

i hope, if anything, this is what happens.... give the captain of chaos a chance if not restructure his contract and give him a chance to prove he is still that go to beast we all have come to love

The past two years I silently questioned his commitment to football after his success. I think one big problem was that players who played under Zorn got soft and when Mike came in, it took some guys a bit to get their focus back.

Chris was doing the pottery thing, promoting it, etc. which is fine and all but the true FB studs live and breath it. I think that's what he's been doing. No more website, tshirt sales, etc. You don't hear him which in my opinion is what you want. See London Fletcher.

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:36 pm

true.. as much as id love to see him w a reality show- i can wait until he retires as the best redskins TE EVER!

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:14 am

I read this on Cool

ey from Rich Tandler:

--On NFL.com my friend Brian McIntyre wrote that Chris ey’s knee has to stay healthy if the two-time Pro Bowl tight end is going to stay on the roster. It’s true that the team will be reluctant to pay him $3.8 million this year if he can’t stay on the field. But as of right now there is no reason to think that ey’s knee, which had to be drained multiple times last year before he went on injured reserve, will not be good to go this year. He did not wear a knee brace during OTA’s and he appeared to be moving just fine. He also dropped 15 pounds, creating less stress on his knees. Things could change when the pads go on and the strain on the knee increases but for right now he is not an injury concern.

After reading this, I got a glimmer of hope that Cool

ey will recover. I even forgot about the nagging groin strain in the OTA's.

But then I read the article from Tandler's friend, Brian McIntyre, NFL.com:

Potential camp casualty: Knee injuries limited tight end Chris ey to just eight receptions in five games last season. In fact, the two-time Pro Bowl pick had his knee drained 15 times, or as official playing-time documents show, once for every 11.6 snaps he played last season. The newly 30-year-old Cooley has acknowledged he's slower than he once was, and he's now the No. 2 tight end in Washington behind Fred Davis. If ey's knee continues to be an issue, it might be hard for Mike Shanahan (who outed ey's knee drainage issues last season) to keep the veteran around on a $3.8 million base salary.

The nagging groin injury has me concerned. Was that related to overcompensating for knee injuries? Another issue is chronic knee problems do not go away.

I am hoping that Cool

ey is on this team for next year, but I am not optimistic that his knee problems are done.

http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandle ... to-go.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... h-redskins[/quote]

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:18 am

If he had the surgery needed to fix the knee and rehabbed correctly, he should be fine. He's got to be smart. If he's a smart guy, you're going to the Redskins to essentially get an extension b/c they could use the cap space.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:31 am

Red_One43 wrote:I read this on ey from Rich Tandler:
--On NFL.com my friend Brian McIntyre wrote that Chris ey’s knee has to stay healthy if the two-time Pro Bowl tight end is going to stay on the roster. It’s true that the team will be reluctant to pay him $3.8 million this year if he can’t stay on the field. But as of right now there is no reason to think that ey’s knee, which had to be drained multiple times last year before he went on injured reserve, will not be good to go this year. He did not wear a knee brace during OTA’s and he appeared to be moving just fine. He also dropped 15 pounds, creating less stress on his knees. Things could change when the pads go on and the strain on the knee increases but for right now he is not an injury concern.

After reading this, I got a glimmer of hope that ey will recover. I even forgot about the nagging groin strain in the OTA's.

But then I read the atricle from Tandler's friend, Brian McIntyre, NFL.com:
Potential camp casualty: Knee injuries limited tight end Chris ey to just eight receptions in five games last season. In fact, the two-time Pro Bowl pick had his knee drained 15 times, or as official playing-time documents show, once for every 11.6 snaps he played last season. The newly 30-year-old Cooley has acknowledged he's slower than he once was, and he's now the No. 2 tight end in Washington behind Fred Davis. If ey's knee continues to be an issue, it might be hard for Mike Shanahan (who outed ey's knee drainage issues last season) to keep the veteran around on a $3.8 million base salary.

The nagging groin injury has me concerned. Was that related to overcompensating for knee injuries? Another issue is chronic knee problems do not go away.

I am hoping that ey is on this team for next year, but I am not optimistic that his knee problems are done.

http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandle ... to-go.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... h-redskins

Tandler's article stated everything that was in McIntyre's. Sounds to me like he's ready to go.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:04 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:I read this on ey from Rich Tandler:
--On NFL.com my friend Brian McIntyre wrote that Chris ey’s knee has to stay healthy if the two-time Pro Bowl tight end is going to stay on the roster. It’s true that the team will be reluctant to pay him $3.8 million this year if he can’t stay on the field. But as of right now there is no reason to think that ey’s knee, which had to be drained multiple times last year before he went on injured reserve, will not be good to go this year. He did not wear a knee brace during OTA’s and he appeared to be moving just fine. He also dropped 15 pounds, creating less stress on his knees. Things could change when the pads go on and the strain on the knee increases but for right now he is not an injury concern.

After reading this, I got a glimmer of hope that ey will recover. I even forgot about the nagging groin strain in the OTA's.

But then I read the atricle from Tandler's friend, Brian McIntyre, NFL.com:
Potential camp casualty: Knee injuries limited tight end Chris ey to just eight receptions in five games last season. In fact, the two-time Pro Bowl pick had his knee drained 15 times, or as official playing-time documents show, once for every 11.6 snaps he played last season. The newly 30-year-old Cooley has acknowledged he's slower than he once was, and he's now the No. 2 tight end in Washington behind Fred Davis. If ey's knee continues to be an issue, it might be hard for Mike Shanahan (who outed ey's knee drainage issues last season) to keep the veteran around on a $3.8 million base salary.

The nagging groin injury has me concerned. Was that related to overcompensating for knee injuries? Another issue is chronic knee problems do not go away.

I am hoping that ey is on this team for next year, but I am not optimistic that his knee problems are done.

http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandle ... to-go.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... h-redskins

Tandler's article stated everything that was in McIntyre's. Sounds to me like he's ready to go.

McIntrye is clearly saying that there is concern with Cool

ey's knee. He brings up the peculiarity of Mike "outing" Cool

ey's knee drainage last year. McIntrye doesn't go into what point he is trying to make of that "outing," but he is clearly placing negative connotations on it. McIntyre's conclusion is that is reason to believe that Cool

ey is a possible camp casualty possibly due to knee issues.

Tandler, on the other hand, looks a the same information, minus Cooley being "slower" and chooses to ignore the "outing" comment, and concludes that there is no reason to conclude that Cool

ey is an injury concern, right now.

Both writers do not mention Cool

ey's groin problems during the OTAs which could be due to compensating for his knee injury. Both writers provide enought to be concerned when training camp starts. Tandler mentions the strain of being in full pads. Neither writer mentions that Cool

ey has never definitively said that his knee is healthy.

Cooley:

“I feel the best I’ve felt,” he said. “It’s to the point that I trust I’m healthy. It’s tough to know but I’ve worked hard enough and ran hard enough and I’ve had no swelling.”

If

ey thinks that it is "tough to know," then I guess that it is tough to know for all of us.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/re ... ove/637926

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:13 pm

Clear as mud!

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:31 pm

Though RiC still hasn't provided a link for this thread, or have there been any corraborating stories, based on the end of the off season workouts, there is a possiblitiy that RiC's source is right about the nagging injuries for Cool

ey.

Cooley hurts hamstring: Redskins tight end Chris ey joined the injury list on Wednesday with what coach Mike Shanahan called a "slight" hamstring that wouldn't have sidelined him again if the Redskins were going to practice on Thursday. ey is now dealing with knee, groin and hamstring issues heading into training camp.
(Updated 06/14/2012)

Injury Report

Knee, groin, hamstring - Probable for start of training camp
(Updated - 6/14/12)

We'rre not just talking about a knee. We are alos talking about various leg muscle injuries that can be related to the knee problems because of over compensation.

Cool

ey will have had a month to heal before he reports to camp, but often nagging injuries for older players do not heal. Again, I cannot accept Rich Tandler's optimism for Cool

ey. I will not be surprised if RiC's source is correct.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/pl ... ris-cooley

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:47 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:I read this on ey from Rich Tandler:
--On NFL.com my friend Brian McIntyre wrote that Chris ey’s knee has to stay healthy if the two-time Pro Bowl tight end is going to stay on the roster. It’s true that the team will be reluctant to pay him $3.8 million this year if he can’t stay on the field. But as of right now there is no reason to think that ey’s knee, which had to be drained multiple times last year before he went on injured reserve, will not be good to go this year. He did not wear a knee brace during OTA’s and he appeared to be moving just fine. He also dropped 15 pounds, creating less stress on his knees. Things could change when the pads go on and the strain on the knee increases but for right now he is not an injury concern.

After reading this, I got a glimmer of hope that ey will recover. I even forgot about the nagging groin strain in the OTA's.

But then I read the atricle from Tandler's friend, Brian McIntyre, NFL.com:
Potential camp casualty: Knee injuries limited tight end Chris ey to just eight receptions in five games last season. In fact, the two-time Pro Bowl pick had his knee drained 15 times, or as official playing-time documents show, once for every 11.6 snaps he played last season. The newly 30-year-old Cooley has acknowledged he's slower than he once was, and he's now the No. 2 tight end in Washington behind Fred Davis. If ey's knee continues to be an issue, it might be hard for Mike Shanahan (who outed ey's knee drainage issues last season) to keep the veteran around on a $3.8 million base salary.

The nagging groin injury has me concerned. Was that related to overcompensating for knee injuries? Another issue is chronic knee problems do not go away.

I am hoping that ey is on this team for next year, but I am not optimistic that his knee problems are done.

http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandle ... to-go.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... h-redskins

Tandler's article stated everything that was in McIntyre's. Sounds to me like he's ready to go.

McIntrye is clearly saying that there is concern with ey's knee. He brings up the peculiarity of Mike "outing" ey's knee drainage last year. McIntrye doesn't go into what point he is trying to make of that "outing," but he is clearly placing negative connotations on it. McIntyre's conclusion is that is reason to believe that ey is a possible camp casualty possibly due to knee issues.

Tandler, on the other hand, looks a the same information, minus Cooley being "slower" and chooses to ignore the "outing" comment, and concludes that there is no reason to conclude that ey is an injury concern, right now.

Both writers do not mention ey's groin problems during the OTAs which could be due to compensating for his knee injury. Both writers provide enought to be concerned when training camp starts. Tandler mentions the strain of being in full pads. Neither writer mentions that ey has never definitively said that his knee is healthy.

Cooley:
“I feel the best I’ve felt,” he said. “It’s to the point that I trust I’m healthy. It’s tough to know but I’ve worked hard enough and ran hard enough and I’ve had no swelling.”

If ey thinks that it is "tough to know," then I guess that it is tough to know for all of us.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/re ... ove/637926

No, Tandler refers to McIntyre's article in his, and reiterates the same points, which is all information from LAST YEAR. McIntyre says nothing about Cool

ey's condition this year, only that he needs to stay healthy to stay on the team. No duh! Tandler took McIntyre's article and added to it his obsevations from OTAs. Tandler's article came after McIntyre's, but you are making it seem as if they were in the other order. I can see where the groin strain might give you pause, but McIntyre's article shouldn't worry you.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:52 pm

Deadskins wrote:

No, Tandler refers to McIntyre's article in his, and reiterates the same points, which is all information from LAST YEAR. McIntyre says nothing about ey's condition this year, only that he needs to stay healthy to stay on the team. No duh! Tandler took McIntyre's article and added to it his obsevations from OTAs. Tandler's article came after McIntyre's, but you are making it seem as if they were in the other order. I can see where the groin strain might give you pause, but McIntyre's article shouldn't worry you.

Didn't mean to seem that Tandler's came first. I read Tandler's first and it had a good positive spin and I felt good about it, but knowing what I know about Cool

ey, I decided to read the article from McIntyre. Definitely not a positive spin. Neither man is wrong, they are just seeing the same information differently. Kind of a classical - glass half full or half empty.

Since I added my own concerns (posted in this thread) that weren't mentioned by either writer (the groin and hamstring injuires and Cool

ey's own comments that it is "tough to know"), McIntyre's article is not what I am worried about.

I fully respect Tandler's and anyone else's positve viewpoint on this issue, but I also respect where ATX is coming from as well.

Here's what we do know:

Cool

ey's knee held up in the OTAs and Mini Camp, but he strained a groin during OTAs and Mini Camp.

That info could be nothing (half full) , but could be an indicator of lingering problems which support RiCs rumors (half empty).

We also know that during OTAs Cooley spoke about his knee:

“I feel the best I’ve felt,” he said. “It’s to the point that I trust I’m healthy. It’s tough to know but I’ve worked hard enough and ran hard enough and I’ve had no swelling.”

Not a load of confidence out of that statement, but then again there is enough for half full ("best," "trust," and "no swelling") and enough for half empty ( "best" since when?, "trust,"and "tough to know.").

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/637926

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:22 pm

Sounds like he may be having trouble compensating for being 30.

Sometimes age strikes suddenly (or slowly, and we try to ignore it) and we have trouble dealing with it. There comes a time when you need to sleep more than you used to, eat differently, train differently, take mobility exercise more seriously, etc. Cool

ey's not in his early 20's anymore and he has a lot of football miles on him. Maybe Fletcher needs to take the old man under his wing for a while. Heh.