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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:33 pm
by skinsfan#33
DarthMonk wrote:SF33, etal.
THE LIST IS CORRECT (if anyone besides us (me) cares)! (You out there cowboykillerzRED?)
You do know what a touch is.
skinsfan#33 wrote:Yes, because if they are using the number of touches (i.e. Rush, catch, PR, KR) and divide by the number of yards without any other qualification, then THE LIST IS WRONG. That is why I wanted to know what they considereed touches.
What you missed is the qualifiaction at the top of the list: 6.25 touches per scheduled game to qualify as leader. That's why Devery Henderson (36 touches, your number) doesn't qualify while the guy with 91 catches, 11 rushes, 14 punt returns, and 23 kick returns does.
Ok, I can admit when I am wrong. I looked for the qualifications for touches, but could find them either time I looked and only stumbled on the pop up discription when my mouse happened to scroll over the header. I don't know if i would have ever noticed it had you not said top of the list. I've been on that page for verious reason dozens of times and neveer noticed thos hidden discriptions.
Wow, you needed 100 touches to qualify. That is a lot! I wonder how many (non-RB) players even had enough touches to qualify for that list. Not too many I'm sure.
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:40 pm
by Kilmer72
1niksder wrote: John Keim wrote:The Redskins remain in talks with free agent OT Demetrius Bell.
The best tackle left on the market, Bell's signing would likely signal the end of Jammal Brown's time in Washington. Bell would also provide insurance for LT Trent Williams, who was suspended for the final four games of 2011 after repeatedly testing positive for marijuana.
How good is he? Enough to move our LT to right?
Re: Still No OL Help... Why?
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:55 am
by TXSkinsFan
yupchagee wrote:Red_One43 wrote:1niksder wrote:According to
thisThe Redskins don't need a lot of help on the offensive line.
The line ranked top 10 in run blocking and top 15 in pass blocking
31% of the carries were between the guards and the line ranked #2, the team ran more to the left than right or between the guards and that's where they ranked the lowest 25th behind LT and 18th around the end. The right side ranked 14th behind RT and 4th around the end.
With guys coming back from injury and the draft right around the corner, they be willing to wait.
Even if one doesn't agree with the interpretation of the stats,
1nik makes a valid point when you look at how Shanny builds his O lines. Here's a look at the 1998 line and the 2008 Bronco O lines.
Shanny seems to build his O line with
low round draft choices and cast-offs. When he sees an athletic LT in the draft and their is a need he goes after him i.e.
Ryan Clady and Trent Williams. If he sees a guy in FA and the cost is to his liking then he will pursue. He will
not break the bank for an O lineman.
Yanda is an example here. in the FA market. He
loves those athletic guys even though they aren't studs, Shanny believes that he can develop them.
Chester fits this mold. Look at
Lichtensteiger. In 2010, when he first took over for Dock, folks on the boards, screamed that he sucked and maybe he did then, but last year he was on his way to becoming one of our best linemen. Shanny expects the same with Chester.
Looking at how Shanny aquires O linemen, he seems to be content with picking up guys like
Mo Hurt in the 7th round and the Undrafted Willie Smith and developing them. Not getting guys like Grubbs in the FA market doesn't seem to phase him.
Going back to
1niks' title, "The Redskins don't need a lot of help on the offensive line," he is spot on in the eyes of Shanny.
Lichtensteiger will be back and even better if the knee holds up.
Trent Williams, looking at the positives, was gaining consistency before caught consistently dating mary jane.
Chester is expected to get better
Monty - serivceable - look for a draft choice here
Brown - ? - Possibly a June 1st cut - Watching what happens here.Depth: Now we have experience - definitely better off than last year at this time.
Mo Hurt - should get better
Willie Smith - was impressive - should get better
Tyler Polombus - played better than Brown at RT
Erik Cook - probably gone
Sean Locklear - Did Shanny owe him a favor or something? - he is long goneLook for some late round picks, undrafted FA pick ups and June 1st vet cuts for more depth
Shanny said that the
only problem that he saw with the O line last year was
depth. He doesn't believe that we need a lot of help on the O line. Whether we agree or not, that
explains why we have seen guys like Nicks, Winston and Grubbs sign with other teams.
1998 Denver Broncos Superbowl Champs Starting O lineLT Tony E. Jones Undrafted
LG Mark Schlereth Washington Redskins / 10th / 263rd pick / 1989
C Tom Nalen Denver Broncos / 7th / 218th pick / 1994
RG Dan Neil Denver Broncos / 3rd / 67th pick / 1997
RT Harry Swayne Tampa Bay Buccaneers / 7th / 190th pick / 1987
2008 Denver Broncos Starting O line - last year for ShannyLT Ryan Clady Denver Broncos / 1st / 12th pick / 2008
LG Ben Hamilton Denver Broncos / 4th / 113th pick / 2001
C Casey Wiegman Undrafted
RG Chris Kuper Denver Broncos / 5th / 161st pick / 2006
RT Ryan Harris Denver Broncos / 3rd / 70th pick / 2007
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htmhttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm
Lichtensteiger will be back and even better if the knee holds up.
That's a VERY big if.
According to this Lichtensteiger could be ready by the end of OTA's and certainly by training camp (assuming no set backs of course).
http://blog.redskins.com/2012/03/20/mrs ... s-healthy/
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:27 am
by DarthMonk
Hey SF33:
This should probably be in a PM but when I posted that yac stat and you told me that list was a year old ...
I also noticed this isn't the first time we've "butted heads." We're good, right? Let's not stop when we disagree.
Speaking of OL. I can't believe we will stand pat. I would think/hope we'll have 2-4 new guys under 25 by the time we get down to 53. I think this is our current depth chart:
LT Williams, McCaskill
LG Licht, Hurt
C Monty, Cook
RG Chester
RT Brown, Smith, Polumbus
I think 4 of these guys were drafted by the 49ers!
Who's in trouble?
DarthMonk
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:53 am
by Irn-Bru
You forgot to stick Bell in there, DM.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:32 am
by DarthMonk
Irn-Bru wrote:You forgot to stick Bell in there, DM.
Did he sign? When?
DarthMonk
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:09 am
by Redskin in Canada
Notwithstanding my temptation to get into advanced statistics, let me sound outright unsophisticated and blunt:
We need a Right Tackle to replace Brown and a Guard would be great too.
We will be much better off with at least insurance about the injury-prone Brown. He might become a good backup at this stage of his career who can give us a few good games but not a whole season at all.
In an ideal world, I would have wanted to pick a legitimate Left Tackle and move Williams to Right Tackle. But being what it is with so few lower picks left and the unfair cap hit imposed by the NFL, I do not see how that could be accomplished now.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:59 am
by Irn-Bru
DarthMonk wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:You forgot to stick Bell in there, DM.
Did he sign? When?
DarthMonk
That's the second post I've misread.
I should probably check to make sure that wasn't Irish coffee I had this morning . . .
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:05 pm
by langleyparkjoe
Still No OL Help... Why?
.. because we're getting a QB who will run for his life and throw a 50 yard pass to the waiter and get a TD
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:07 pm
by skinsfan#33
DarthMonk wrote:Hey SF33:
This should probably be in a PM but when I posted that yac stat and you told me that list was a year old ...
I also noticed this isn't the first time we've "butted heads." We're good, right? Let's not stop when we disagree.
Speaking of OL. I can't believe we will stand pat. I would think/hope we'll have 2-4 new guys under 25 by the time we get down to 53. I think this is our current depth chart:
I
LT Williams, McCaskill
LG Licht, Hurt
C Monty, Cook
RG Chester
RT Brown, Smith, Polumbus
I think 4 of these guys were drafted by the 49ers!
Who's in trouble?
DarthMonk
We're good! I hate coming off as a know it all and then being proven that I don't. I still think a 100 min is ridiculous, but I should have noticed it.
I agree with you and RIC on the OL. I can't sew how we can go into the season w/o adding a RT and preferably a LG too. I think Cory L would be a fantastic #6 OL. A backup to all of the interior OL. He should at least be challenged for his starting spot.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:07 pm
by markshark84
I question this also, but I hold in my heart that Shanahan wants to draft OL -- of course now we don't have a pick until the 3rd to use on an OL.
We 100% need an upgrade at RT and OG (ideally at both OG positions). We also need added depth at Tackle and G. If they don't address this it won't matter who is under center.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:20 am
by skinsfan#33
markshark84 wrote:I question this also, but I hold in my heart that Shanahan wants to draft OL -- of course now we don't have a pick until the 3rd to use on an OL.
We 100% need an upgrade at RT and OG (ideally at both OG positions). We also need added depth at Tackle and G. If they don't address this it won't matter who is under center.
It is funny, the only thing good that came out of last year's injury riddled season was the fact that our backups got some game time and finished pretty well.
I would live to add Cory L to that group of backups.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:52 am
by crazyhorse1
I think that any trust we have in Williams is misplaced. Character issues count.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:19 am
by 1niksder
crazyhorse1 wrote:I think that any trust we have in Williams is misplaced. Character issues count.
The Redskins are in a cap bind and Trent Williams can free up $7M in space this year. The Redskins only need to restructure his contract and add a few years to it.
The Redskins would have normally already done this, so someone must have been smoking dope
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:50 am
by langleyparkjoe
1niksder wrote:crazyhorse1 wrote:I think that any trust we have in Williams is misplaced. Character issues count.
The Redskins are in a cap bind and Trent Williams can free up $7M in space this year. The Redskins only need to restructure his contract and add a few years to it.
The Redskins would have normally already done this, so someone must have been smoking dope
you couldn't have chosen another means of attack? you know how offended Trent and Fred are right now???
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:38 pm
by Countertrey
Why would either be offended? It wasn't Bruce Allen that came back positive X2
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:19 pm
by 1niksder
Countertrey wrote:Why would either be offended? It wasn't Bruce Allen that came back positive X2
And both will make more than $5M this season
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:56 pm
by markshark84
Based on prior history, by week 5 we'll have 1-2 injuries on our OL.
We'll then be fielding a starting OL equivalent of McCaskill, Hurt, Montgomery, Chester, and Williams....and people will be wondering why our offense is totally inept.....
Based on past history, we have typically had anywhere from 1-4 injuries to our OL per season. Right now we only have 3 true OL starters and 3 quality backups. That means we need 2 quality starters and 1 quality in order to have an adequate line for next year after taking into account potential injuries.
Yet, nothing has been done. And if our FO decides to not address the OL issues, get ready for another 6-10 season....
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:01 pm
by riggofan
markshark84 wrote:Based on prior history, by week 5 we'll have 1-2 injuries on our OL.
We'll then be fielding a starting OL equivalent of McCaskill, Hurt, Montgomery, Chester, and Williams....and people will be wondering why our offense is totally inept.....
Based on past history, we have typically had anywhere from 1-4 injuries to our OL per season. Right now we only have 3 true OL starters and 3 quality backups. That means we need 2 quality starters and 1 quality in order to have an adequate line for next year after taking into account potential injuries.
Yet, nothing has been done. And if our FO decides to not address the OL issues, get ready for another 6-10 season....
Its a great point. Shanahan has certainly used injuries as an excuse for not winning more games last year. If they don't address the lack of depth somehow this season, its a huge mistake.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:28 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
I think we sign an under rated offensive line man closer to draft day and.maybe draft a back up in round three unless baylors center is there. This front office is doing more to build this team young and fast then I have ever see
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:24 pm
by DarthMonk
Posted at 12:01 PM ET, 03/23/2012 TheWashingtonPost Redskins have yet to sign a right tackle; Jammal Brown encouraged by rehab
By Mike Jones
Quiet in free agency for most of this week, the Washington Redskins have yet to find an answer at right tackle. Meanwhile, the incumbent, Jammal Brown -- who is rehabilitating a hip injury -- is optimistic that this spring he can prove to coaches that he remains the best option at that position.
Tackle Jammal Brown (77) is helped from the field after he sustained an injury during warm-ups before the game against the New England Patriots Dec. 11. (Photo by Jonathan Newton/The Washington Post)The team hosted Buffalo Bills free agent Demetrius Bell last week, but the four-year veteran left Redskins Park without agreeing to terms, and reportedly is drawing interest from the Arizona Cardinals as well.
Other options remain on the market, with San Diego’s Marcus McNeill and the Giants’ Kareem McKenzie also still unsigned. It’s unclear how much interest the Redskins have in them, however.
The right tackle position requires the team’s attention because of the uncertainty that surrounds Brown’s surgically repaired hip. Brown missed all of the 2009 season while recovering from surgery to repair a torn labrum, and has missed seven games over the last two seasons because of lingering problems.
After the 2011 season ended, Coach Mike Shanahan said that Brown needed an entire offseason to rehab and attempt to regain full strength. The coach said the former two-time Pro Bowler’s future with the team would hinge on his ability to recover.
Brown, who has spent the majority of the offseason working with team trainers, said Friday via text message that he is very encouraged by his progress. Brown also said he “most definitely” expects to be fully ready by the time OTAs get underway late this spring.
It remains to be seen whether the Redskins have the same level of optimism about Brown, who is entering the second year of a five-year, $20.25 million contract. This year, he will count for $4.6 million against the salary cap.
The team’s other on-roster options at right tackle could include second-year pro Willie Smith, who played the final four games of the season at left tackle, and four-year veteran Tyler Polumbus, who started four games at right tackle.
If the Redskins don’t succeed in bringing in another veteran, they could draft one. This year’s draft features a number of right tackles expected to be available in the middle rounds. Ole Miss’s Bobby Massie, Cal’s Mitchell Schwartz or Miami’s Brandon Washington are projected to be available in the late-second to mid-third round range, and could be options for the Redsksins, who have the sixth pick of the third round.
DarthMonk
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:26 pm
by Red_One43
Point-Counterpoint: How much help is needed on O-line?
Rich Tandler:
This just in–it’s not 2009 any more. This line is not going to make anyone forget the ’91 Hogs or anything but it’s more mediocre than awful. Redskins quarterbacks were sacked 41 times in 2011. That’s four more sacks that the average NFL team allowed, or about one more sack a month. And remember that 10 of those sacks where in one game against the Bills in Toronto when John Beck had so many problems getting rid of the ball it seemed that the it was Super Glued to his hand
Bill Standig:
According to Pro Football Focus, the Redskins line ranked 30th against the run, 29th against the pass last season. Should we entrust essentially the same core with guarding a heavily invested in rookie passer? For basic depth purposes, more linemen are needed (this group could not overcome an injury to a non-Pro Bowler like Kory Lichtensteiger).
Rich Tandler:
Finally, I love PFF’s work but you did notice which O-line ranked behind the Redskins, right? The Super Bowl champion Giants.
I agree with both of them. As Tandler says, we are not in dire straits with the O line. I expect the same guys to improve, but as Standig says, we need more depth. Shanny will draft a O lineman or two in the late rounds unless he sees someone he really likes in 3 or 4, and he will work his magic to find another Willie Smith in the undrafted ranks. I don't see him filling up his 7 choices with mostly OL. BPA for Shanny - all the way!
http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandle ... -line.html
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:02 pm
by Deadskins
Red_One43 wrote:Bill Standig:
According to Pro Football Focus, the Redskins line ranked 30th against the run, 29th against the pass last season.
Well that's the problem right there. They're ranking our offenesive line as a defensive line.
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:05 pm
by skinsfan#33
I was hoping that our path to improving our ol depth was by making one or two of our starters, backups.
Don't how people point out our sack totals but fail to mention only two teams ol gave up more qb hits. That isn't exactly the ol I want my franchise qb starting his career behind.
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:37 am
by Red_One43
skinsfan#33 wrote:I was hoping that our path to improving our ol depth was by making one or two of our starters, backups.
Don't how people point out our sack totals but fail to mention only two teams ol gave up more qb hits. That isn't exactly the ol I want my franchise qb starting his career behind.
You also have to remember that getting the ball out quickly is on the receivers and QBs. Failure to do so means more hits on your QB. You have to remember that our O is based on timing. A lot of time, the receiver could not get separation and a lot of time, the QB didn't get the ball out quick enough. You add a few receiver that can stretch the field and a QB that can actually hit them, suddenly a mediocre line looks a little better, instantaneously.
If you add in that continuity is important to an O line especially a ZBS line, then the line has to be better than last year.
Monty - average center - serviceable.
Lichtensteiger - Ol leader - overachiever - Shanny's guy
Chester - Shanny prototype athleticism- supposed to improve
Trent - Shanny prototype athleticism - showed improvement
Brown - ? - but Shanny is optimistic about him getting healthy
Shanny clearly likes what he sees for now with his starters.
Shanny said that we need depth. That is what he is aiming for this year.
Had he had more free agency money, he would have probably signed at least one of the top guards and/or a tackle, but he clearly prioritizes the skill positions first because he believes that he can coach up an O lineman.
I personally would like for Shanny to build the team from the O and D lines, but I have accepted that that is not the way he rolls when building his lines. That is why he needs 5 years to build a team. He likes to add the pieces a few at a time, when the right ones come along.