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Because while you were looking for how well he did with a crappy team in two years, fans of the team were looking for him to re-build it from the ground up. Different objectives.CanesSkins26 wrote:In two years he has one less win than Zorn did
This is true Kazoo but also Zorn never had control like these guys do and look what he was handicapped with. He got a team designed for smash mouth and try to convert them to WC. I do agree with you though. The new coaches changed both D and O. They could have won more with the old defense but decided to tear it apart and that stung. I think these coaches can make us respectable but I still have my doubts about going to the big one or even being a power house team like in the 80s. Mike is supposed to be some kind of football guru but so far all I can see is a long rebuilding process.KazooSkinsFan wrote:Because while you were looking for how well he did with a crappy team in two years, fans of the team were looking for him to re-build it from the ground up. Different objectives.CanesSkins26 wrote:In two years he has one less win than Zorn did
That's a lot of "if's".SouthLondonRedskin wrote:Well get prepared to be impressed my friend. If we draft as well as we did last year and get that QB we need then we'll win this division.CanesSkins26 wrote:In two years he has one less win than Zorn did. How is he doing well? The last time he had an above .500 record was in 2006. When he starts winning ball games I'll be impressed.SkinsJock wrote:C'mon Canes - it's a fact that you do not like that Mike is the HC of the Redskins
how can you then state that you're being objective?
I don't like Coughlin and hence my statement - I qualified my feeling - I'm biased
Shanahan is doing well with what he's got here and he's going to get this franchise back into shape
If you take away the starting QBs from our division rivals there is really very little to seperate any of the four teams in my opinion.
I never said we weren't better off. As usual, you are arguing against things that nobody actually said. Is Allen/Shanahan better than Vinny/Zorn? Yes. Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.SkinsJock wrote:You can lead a horse to water .....
Canes - you are a part of a very small minority if you don't think that this franchise is better off right now than it was after 2 years with Zorn
we were an embarrassment - we are not there yet but this FO and this HC are responsible for really decent gains
I don't really care - you're just never going to like what Shanahan achieves here
Really? Why not?CanesSkins26 wrote:Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.
let me clarify - you brought up the win loss record - I took that to mean that Shanahan had not done as wellCanesSkins26 wrote:I never said we weren't better off. As usual, you are arguing against things that nobody actually said. Is Allen/Shanahan better than Vinny/Zorn? Yes. Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.SkinsJock wrote:Canes - you are a part of a very small minority if you don't think that this franchise is better off right now than it was after 2 years with Zorn
The same reason why he got fired in Denver...once he became the de facto GM his teams started to struggle. Like I said in another post, the last time that he had an above .500 record was in 2006.Deadskins wrote:Really? Why not?CanesSkins26 wrote:Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.
I think this and next year we do need to start seeing more results in the win column. Just the first two years taking over a team built by the GMs being dumb and dumber and the not ready for prime time coach on the field, you start with what they did. Finding younger players and developing a culture. But after as you point out actual control for a couple years, we really do need to start at least contending for the division the next couple years. Canes wasn't wrong on his expectations, just completely unrealistic in the timeline.Kilmer72 wrote:This is true Kazoo but also Zorn never had control like these guys do and look what he was handicapped with. He got a team designed for smash mouth and try to convert them to WC. I do agree with you though. The new coaches changed both D and O. They could have won more with the old defense but decided to tear it apart and that stung. I think these coaches can make us respectable but I still have my doubts about going to the big one or even being a power house team like in the 80s. Mike is supposed to be some kind of football guru but so far all I can see is a long rebuilding process.KazooSkinsFan wrote:Because while you were looking for how well he did with a crappy team in two years, fans of the team were looking for him to re-build it from the ground up. Different objectives.CanesSkins26 wrote:In two years he has one less win than Zorn did
Well said. I think complaining about our W-L record from the first two seasons just completely overlooks how rotten this team was.KazooSkinsFan wrote:I think this and next year we do need to start seeing more results in the win column. Just the first two years taking over a team built by the GMs being dumb and dumber and the not ready for prime time coach on the field, you start with what they did. Finding younger players and developing a culture. But after as you point out actual control for a couple years, we really do need to start at least contending for the division the next couple years. Canes wasn't wrong on his expectations, just completely unrealistic in the timeline.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... d-redskinsjr_uscg wrote:Did you see the article on ESPN about the Redskins? "it's Not Your Dads Old Redskins" Some more positive reading! Can someone post it? I'm on the train trying to get home. Check it out.
I get it, Washington Redskins fans. You've been hurt. You've been burned too many times by big March headlines you thought would bring lasting happiness but instead brought heartache, and now it's difficult for you to trust. You don't want to be hurt again.
How else to explain the horrified reaction by a quarterback-starved fan base to the idea of signing Peyton Manning? Judging by the reactions from the folks in our comments section all the way up to the mayor of Washington, D.C., you'd think we were talking about handing the starting quarterback's job to Dan Snyder's teenage nephew. This is what Mayor Vincent Gray had to say on the topic to a D.C. television station last week:
"You know, I think it depends on what role he would play, Bruce," Gray said. "But I really think the Redskins need a quarterback that they can build with for the future. You know, Andrew Luck is probably going to go to the Colts, but there's Robert Griffin III, and there's a couple other promising quarterbacks that are out there. We've kind of been down this pathway with quarterbacks who've been great but maybe are in the back end of their career, and even if he comes in and plays a year or two, where do we go from there?"
Well, jeez, Mr. Mayor. At that point, you go with the guy you drafted in 2013 because you weren't able to trade up and get Griffin in 2012. Or you go with a young guy you picked later in that draft who's been apprenticing for a year or two under Peyton Manning, for goodness' sake. What Gray and many other Redskins fans seem to be missing here is that Mike Shanahan can't just go to the "franchise quarterback" aisle at the Wegman's down the road from the team's Ashburn, Va., training facility and pick one. Only one team's going to get Griffin, and if the Redskins aren't that team, they need to have a good Plan B. If Manning is fully healthy and shows he can throw the ball the way he was throwing it two years ago before his neck injury, he's the greatest Plan B in alphabetically-themed planning history.
Redskins fans, the mayor included, are looking at this whole thing through the disappointing prism of free-agent signing periods past. I'm hearing names like Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Albert Haynesworth and yeah, Donovan McNabb -- a list of big-name star players the Redskins brought in to great fanfare and who flopped for one reason or another. Because of this, the chorus moans, Manning isn't the way to go. The Redskins have done the big-name/big-contract thing before and it just never works out. They need to stop doing business this way.
Well, guess what? They kind of already have. Yeah, McNabb was a mistake -- a flyer Shanahan took thinking he could re-light a spark that had gone out in Philadelphia and maybe sneak into the playoffs in his first year in Washington. He acknowledges it was a risk that didn't work out. But (a) Manning is not McNabb, who was no longer driven to excel by the time the Redskins got him and (b) the McNabb acquisition is an outlier among the moves Shanahan and Bruce Allen have made since taking over personnel decisions two years ago. Everything else they've done in the draft and free agency has been focused, sober and competent, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt, even from Redskins fans scarred by the mistakes of past administrations.
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AP Photo/Frederick Breedon
Adding Peyton Manning for the right price would make a lot of sense for the Redskins.
Snyder doesn't pull these strings anymore. Part of the agreement Shanahan signed when he took the job was that Snyder would let him build the team, as he puts it, "the right way." Last year's draft was an exercise in patience, as Shanahan refused to reach for quarterbacks he didn't think were the long-term answer simply because he had a need at that position. He traded back, trying to build depth, and picked up key future pieces like Ryan Kerrigan, Roy Helu, Evan Royster, Jarvis Jenkins and Dejon Gomes. He has eight picks this year and will have to decide how many of them he's willing to sacrifice if he wants to move up to draft Griffin. Shanahan knows how many needs his team has, so he's not going to make that decision lightly.
In the meantime, there is free agency, and although the Redskins didn't make a big splash last summer, they did very well in free agency. Shanahan targeted specific players in the 27-29-year-old age group -- guys he believed were already established but still young and hungry enough to grow and develop with the team. He plans to use the same formula this year to address wide receiver, offensive line and the secondary. He's not after the biggest name out there. He's after the specific types of players he believes his team needs in order to build a consistent, year-to-year winner.
Which brings us back to Manning, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Shanahan's not going to give Manning a big, five-year, huge-money deal. I don't think anyone is, given the health concerns, but if the market gets that crazy, I don't expect the Redskins to play in it. It just wouldn't be smart. Bringing Manning in on a one-year or two-year deal with incentives to allow him to prove he's healthy is smart, because if Manning is healthy, he's worth as much as any quarterback in the league.
That's the important thing to remember here, Redskins fans. Manning isn't a "fading star" who's past his prime. He was, before his neck injury, playing at as high a level as any quarterback in the league. He got hurt and missed a season. Now, it appears he'll be available again. And if he shows teams he can throw the ball the way he did in 2010, he's a smart short-term investment for a team that needs a quarterback answer now and for the future. The ideal solution would be both, but if that's not out there, the Redskins need to be smart about addressing the former while keeping their eye on the latter. So far, the Shanahan regime has shown that it doesn't do business like those "same old Redskins" who've hurt you so many times.
langleyparkjoe wrote:Dude, of course we're going to win the SB in 2013.. how the heck can there be any flippin doubt?????
<-- has predicted Skins will win SB since 1979 when I came to this great country of the USA.. of course I was only 2 at that time so I'm lying.
Come on now, you have to fess up. You are related to Shanahan aren't you?SkinsJock wrote:I do believe we are in the playoffs and we do have the best HC in the NFC East
+1StorminMormon86 wrote:Come on now, you have to fess up. You are related to Shanahan aren't you?SkinsJock wrote:I do believe we are in the playoffs and we do have the best HC in the NFC East
I was not sure at first that Mike would be able to have the control he needed to both manage and coach this franchise and make it a viable contender in the NFC East again - apart from the obvious mistakes in both choice of QBs and treatment of players he's done a good jobCanesSkins26 wrote:+1StorminMormon86 wrote:Come on now, you have to fess up. You are related to Shanahan aren't you?SkinsJock wrote:I do believe we are in the playoffs and we do have the best HC in the NFC East
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
I totally agree with you on the whole Elway thing, but after last year's draft I can't agree that he doesn't have us going in the right direction to become consistently competitive in the division.CanesSkins26 wrote:The same reason why he got fired in Denver...once he became the de facto GM his teams started to struggle. Like I said in another post, the last time that he had an above .500 record was in 2006.Deadskins wrote:Really? Why not?CanesSkins26 wrote:Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.
Since Elway retired, Shanahan has essentially been a .500 coach, with an overall record of 103-94. In those twelve season, his teams have been .500 or worse 6 times. In those twelve season he has only won his division 1 time and has 1 playoff win. He lives off of his success with Elway, but since that time he's been nothing special as a coach, and is vastly overrated in my opinion.
Winning the division once in twelve years and winning one playoff game in that time frame does not constitute success.