The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't.

He's terrible.

Yes, but people have told MANY lies with numbers.

If you throw out the five missed FGs that weren't his fault he actually has a 85% FG make percentage. Which puts him in the middle of the pack!

See numbers can lie. Those number are factual, but they do tell a lie.

I blame all of the kickoffs out of bounds on three people in this order. Danny Smith, Shanny, and then Gano. Danny needs to stop calling that kick if he knows Gano isn't consistant with it. Shanny needs to walk up behind Danny slap him in th back of the head (don't choke on your gum Danny) and tell him to stop having the Kicker do dumb stuff! Gano should know he struggles with the kick, so he should hedge is directional kick away from the side lines.

Shanny said he told Danny no more of the directional kicks. I don't know if he meant for just that game or the rest of the year. He should have slapped Danny in the back of the head earlier.

I seriously hope Danny Smith is let go. Of all the coaches on Zorn's coaching staff he is the guy I wanted back least and he is the only one that got held over. I have never liked the results the guy gets.

Irn-Bru wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I'm just saying, from a coaching standpoint, I'd like to see the leash be just as short on Gano as it is on Rocky McIntosh, Rex Grossman, Anthony Armstrong or any other player that Shanahan replaces due to performance.

The leash can't be as short on Gano because we don't carry two kickers on the roster (and it would be crazy to do so). You can't just bench Gano and send in the other guy; there is no other guy without us paying a high price.

Look, Gano was the best kicker on the team this offseason. He won his spot and since then hasn't performed. Cutting him now would be to take on a sizeable risk without much upside, and at any rate it wouldn't accomplish anything that waiting until the offseason couldn't accomplish.

The fact that Gano is on the team isn't a coaching failure. A coaching failure would be to have a "short leash" and risk throwing our special teams into confusion over nothing.

We don't need to carry 2. We just need 1 who can make more than 70% of his FGs.

Last year the Cowboys had David Buehler, a strong legged, inconsistent kicker on their team. They didn't kick him to the curb because he is young and has a strong leg, BUT, they didn't sit back and accept that it will take years for him to hone his skills. The found Dan Bailey. The kept two kickers this season and then put Buehler on IR even though he had recovered from his minor injury, because Bailey had proved himself.

Where did Bailey come from? Perhaps this is what the article criticizing our scouting department is about. I haven't read the article, but it says that our scouting department is the same under Vinnie.

There are probably other Dan Bailey's out their waiting to get their chance. Why bring in an old vet like Shayne Grahman as competition when you might find a Dan Bailey out there. If you are afraid to let Gano go, then don't - keep two kickers like Dallas did until you know that the new guy can really kick.

Up until the Cardinal game, Bailey had hit 25 out of 26 kicks with is last miss being in Week 2. Not bad scouting.

Skinsfan33 wrote:

If you throw out the five missed FGs that weren't his fault he actually has a 85% FG make percentage. Which puts him in the middle of the pack!

Which 5?

See numbers can lie. Those number are factual, but they do tell a lie.

Really. Where? He is a 71% kicker this year. He was a 68% kicker last year. Let's make excuses for every missed kick to make him average. That works. Except, you're ignoring that every kicker in the league has to overcome obstacles on their kicks as well. Bad snaps, bad holds, blocks occur on every team. So, even factoring in those mishaps doesn't vindicate Gano.

I blame all of the kickoffs out of bounds on three people in this order. Danny Smith, Shanny, and then Gano.

That's a stretch. Pardon Danny for calling a directional kick. Is it Danny's fault if Banks fumbles a return? Was it Greg Williams' or Haslett's fault if Rogers dropped an Int? You're reaching for an excuse for a player not doing a fundamental part of their job. Every team calls directional kicks. Apparently Gano nails this stuff in practice. You can't just kick straight all the time because your kicker can't kick at an angle. You need another kicker, or you need your kicker to learn how to kick at an angle.

If you're late for work, do you blame your boss for making the work day start so early??

It's one thing to want to wait until season's end to make a call on Gano. But, it's quite another to bend over backwards defending him. He sucks.

The sun was in my eyes. I slipped. I can't kick at an angle. I was sick. My stomach hurt. All excuses. The sooner we stop making them for failure. The sooner we will start winning for a change.

Hold on - we're not losing JUST because of this stupid kicker

I'm not defending him at all - I just want to have a bunch of kickers in here before next season and let the best guy win the job


There's NOTHING to be gained by cutting Gano right now

I totally agree that the scouting here was atrocious but .. this FO has a clue - give them time

SkinsJock wrote:Hold on - we're not losing JUST because of this stupid kicker

I'm not defending him at all - I just want to have a bunch of kickers in here before next season and let the best guy win the job


There's NOTHING to be gained by cutting Gano right now

I totally agree that the scouting here was atrocious but .. this FO has a clue - give them time

IMO - This might be the best post explaining why Gano is still here. This post by SkinsJock might also give inisight into Shanny's priority goals this this season. Shanny came into this season long term thinking - He didn't have to sign a shut down corner this year, he expected another year like 2010 from Hall holding down the fort. He didn't have to get a better QB than Grossman, he expected to get at least one year out of Grossman holding down the fort. With Gano, it was a little deeper, Shanny expected this guy to show that he is our long term kicker. This allowed Shanny to concentrate his draft choices and free agent pick ups on other positions. All three guys failed to meet those expectations, but it is not a setback because I believe that in year three, those key needs will be filled such as QB and CB. Shanahan said 3-4 years to turn this around. Well, in year three, if the turnaround is to have happened, you have to have a cover corner to do the things Haz would really like to do with his D. You have to have a QB for Kyle to do what he wants to do with is O. You have to have true #1 receiver. Finally, you have to have a solid kicker. This year in camp, Gano will have bonafide competiton. Allen has already announced, again, that we will be big players in this free agent market.

Like SkinsJock is saying - Gano has not cost us a winning season. There is nothing to be gained by cutting him right now.

Minus the blocks and muffs his Average goes way up...
He set a Redskins record andji think ties the longest in the NFL this year w his 59 yarder? Or was it 61? Either or he has a leg and maybe needs a line he can trust a kickers only tool is wht they kick with break a foot on a blockers helmet = DONE.
Imo he is the least of our worries. Sorry if this has all been said I haven't read page 2-3

The Hogster wrote:Skinsfan33 wrote:

If you throw out the five missed FGs that weren't his fault he actually has a 85% FG make percentage. Which puts him in the middle of the pack!

Which 5?

See numbers can lie. Those number are factual, but they do tell a lie.

Really. Where? He is a 71% kicker this year. He was a 68% kicker last year. Let's make excuses for every missed kick to make him average. That works. Except, you're ignoring that every kicker in the league has to overcome obstacles on their kicks as well. Bad snaps, bad holds, blocks occur on every team. So, even factoring in those mishaps doesn't vindicate Gano.

I blame all of the kickoffs out of bounds on three people in this order. Danny Smith, Shanny, and then Gano.

That's a stretch. Pardon Danny for calling a directional kick. Is it Danny's fault if Banks fumbles a return? Was it Greg Williams' or Haslett's fault if Rogers dropped an Int? You're reaching for an excuse for a player not doing a fundamental part of their job. Every team calls directional kicks. Apparently Gano nails this stuff in practice. You can't just kick straight all the time because your kicker can't kick at an angle. You need another kicker, or you need your kicker to learn how to kick at an angle.

If you're late for work, do you blame your boss for making the work day start so early??

It's one thing to want to wait until season's end to make a call on Gano. But, it's quite another to bend over backwards defending him. He sucks.

The sun was in my eyes. I slipped. I can't kick at an angle. I was sick. My stomach hurt. All excuses. The sooner we stop making them for failure. The sooner we will start winning for a change.

The five missed that weren't his fault. The 4 blocks and the snap that the holder never held but Gano tried to kick it laying on the ground. I guess you could blame that one on him, but I don't.

Most of the example you gave are terrible, but the one that is close is the Banks fumble problem. If Banks fumbled the ball every time he was running up to make a catch on a punt and Danny was telling to catch the ball moving forward even though he knew Banks had a problem fumbling the ball when he did that then yes I would blame Danny! If Day knew a player had a problem with a certain play and he kept asking him to do that play, then YES IT IS DANNY'S FAULT!

How can you not get that? Danny knows Gano will kick the ball out of bounds frequently when he has him kick it to the left corner of the end zone. Yes, Gano should be able to make that kick, but it is obvious that he has issues with it. SO STOP FREAKING CALLING FOR THAT KICK! That is mostly on Danny, that is why MS told DS not to have Gano kick to the corner any more.

Why are you making excuses for Danny when you have a problem with people making excuses for Gano!

Again, the numbers say Gano was a 85% kicker on kicks he had a chance of making.

Skinsfan33 wrote:

Most of the example you gave are terrible, but the one that is close is the Banks fumble problem. If Banks fumbled the ball every time he was running up to make a catch on a punt and Danny was telling to catch the ball moving forward even though he knew Banks had a problem fumbling the ball when he did that then yes I would blame Danny! If Day knew a player had a problem with a certain play and he kept asking him to do that play, then YES IT IS DANNY'S FAULT!

Sure. Whatever you say. This might be the weakest argument I've ever heard. This is professional sports. Not Pee Wee. Not High School. Not College. You are paying guys to at least be able to execute fundamental tasks at their position. For you to blame Gano's inability to directional kick on Danny Smith is the equivalent of blaming Haslett for playing ANY man to man coverage just because D Hall is better in Zone.

If you have to restrict your game plan to that degree because of a player's limitations, then it's time to get a player who can do what you're asking. Of course, you could argue that we should just fire the Coach and kick straight. Sounds like a winning plan.

How can you not get that? Danny knows Gano will kick the ball out of bounds frequently when he has him kick it to the left corner of the end zone. Yes, Gano should be able to make that kick, but it is obvious that he has issues with it. SO STOP FREAKING CALLING FOR THAT KICK!

This is probably the worst part of your rant. Really?? Okay. With that logic, maybe we should stop kicking FGs altogether since he can't make them consistently. You got it. Let's just become a 4 down team for 4 Quarters since it's obviously a coaching blunder to ask a player to Kick a 40+ yarder when you know he'll probably miss it.

Why are you making excuses for Danny when you have a problem with people making excuses for Gano!

I'm not making excuses for Danny. Danny and Gano are not one in the same. Danny Smith is the SPECIAL TEAMS coach. Meaning he's judged on our Kickoff Coverage, as well as our Kickoff team. He's evaluated on our Punting, Punt Coverage, AND, Punt Returns. He's evaluated on much more than just Graham Gano's FG% and Graham Gano's tendency to be Shank-A-Potamus.

Do your research. Look at the performance of ALL of those aspects of his Special Teams units over the years, and then judge Danny Smith. Same goes for Gano.

Look at his production over the last 3 years, and evaluate him. If you do that, and still think he deserves to kick in this league, then fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But, let's not confuse the issues.

Again, the numbers say Gano was a 85% kicker on kicks he had a chance of making.

The numbers say he made 68% of his kicks in 2010, and 71% in 2011. YOU say we should give him credit for whatever you choose to give him credit for. Again. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

The Hogster wrote:Skinsfan33 wrote:

Most of the example you gave are terrible, but the one that is close is the Banks fumble problem. If Banks fumbled the ball every time he was running up to make a catch on a punt and Danny was telling to catch the ball moving forward even though he knew Banks had a problem fumbling the ball when he did that then yes I would blame Danny! If Day knew a player had a problem with a certain play and he kept asking him to do that play, then YES IT IS DANNY'S FAULT!

Sure. Whatever you say. This might be the weakest argument I've ever heard. This is professional sports. Not Pee Wee. Not High School. Not College. You are paying guys to at least be able to execute fundamental tasks at their position. For you to blame Gano's inability to directional kick on Danny Smith is the equivalent of blaming Haslett for playing ANY man to man coverage just because D Hall is better in Zone.

If you have to restrict your game plan to that degree because of a player's limitations, then it's time to get a player who can do what you're asking. Of course, you could argue that we should just fire the Coach and kick straight. Sounds like a winning plan.

How can you not get that? Danny knows Gano will kick the ball out of bounds frequently when he has him kick it to the left corner of the end zone. Yes, Gano should be able to make that kick, but it is obvious that he has issues with it. SO STOP FREAKING CALLING FOR THAT KICK!

This is probably the worst part of your rant. Really?? Okay. With that logic, maybe we should stop kicking FGs altogether since he can't make them consistently. You got it. Let's just become a 4 down team for 4 Quarters since it's obviously a coaching blunder to ask a player to Kick a 40+ yarder when you know he'll probably miss it.

Why are you making excuses for Danny when you have a problem with people making excuses for Gano!

I'm not making excuses for Danny. Danny and Gano are not one in the same. Danny Smith is the SPECIAL TEAMS coach. Meaning he's judged on our Kickoff Coverage, as well as our Kickoff team. He's evaluated on our Punting, Punt Coverage, AND, Punt Returns. He's evaluated on much more than just Graham Gano's FG% and Graham Gano's tendency to be Shank-A-Potamus.

Do your research. Look at the performance of ALL of those aspects of his Special Teams units over the years, and then judge Danny Smith. Same goes for Gano.

Look at his production over the last 3 years, and evaluate him. If you do that, and still think he deserves to kick in this league, then fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But, let's not confuse the issues.

Again, the numbers say Gano was a 85% kicker on kicks he had a chance of making.

The numbers say he made 68% of his kicks in 2010, and 71% in 2011. YOU say we should give him credit for whatever you choose to give him credit for. Again. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

Quit comparing deciding where to kick a kickoff to defense. This is so simple even you should be able to understand it. Danny decides where he wants Gano to kick. He has a kicker that can put the ball out of the back of the end zone on every kick off so why keep asking him to do something he has a hard time doing.

I don't care if you agree with me because MS did.

Would I like Gano to be more reliable? Absuletly! Do I blame Gano for kicks that were blocked because the line didn't do its job or the holder dropped the damn snap? No, but apparently you do. I do blame Danny and MS for keeping a kicker with so many limitations, but they obviously think his potential out weighs his limitations.

You make almost no sense with your "rants". See I can say your posts are stupid too. The thing is, they are.

The Hogster wrote:Skinsfan33 wrote:

Most of the example you gave are terrible, but the one that is close is the Banks fumble problem. If Banks fumbled the ball every time he was running up to make a catch on a punt and Danny was telling to catch the ball moving forward even though he knew Banks had a problem fumbling the ball when he did that then yes I would blame Danny! If Day knew a player had a problem with a certain play and he kept asking him to do that play, then YES IT IS DANNY'S FAULT!

Sure. Whatever you say. This might be the weakest argument I've ever heard. This is professional sports. Not Pee Wee. Not High School. Not College. You are paying guys to at least be able to execute fundamental tasks at their position. For you to blame Gano's inability to directional kick on Danny Smith is the equivalent of blaming Haslett for playing ANY man to man coverage just because D Hall is better in Zone.

If you have to restrict your game plan to that degree because of a player's limitations, then it's time to get a player who can do what you're asking. Of course, you could argue that we should just fire the Coach and kick straight. Sounds like a winning plan.

How can you not get that? Danny knows Gano will kick the ball out of bounds frequently when he has him kick it to the left corner of the end zone. Yes, Gano should be able to make that kick, but it is obvious that he has issues with it. SO STOP FREAKING CALLING FOR THAT KICK!

This is probably the worst part of your rant. Really?? Okay. With that logic, maybe we should stop kicking FGs altogether since he can't make them consistently. You got it. Let's just become a 4 down team for 4 Quarters since it's obviously a coaching blunder to ask a player to Kick a 40+ yarder when you know he'll probably miss it.

Why are you making excuses for Danny when you have a problem with people making excuses for Gano!

I'm not making excuses for Danny. Danny and Gano are not one in the same. Danny Smith is the SPECIAL TEAMS coach. Meaning he's judged on our Kickoff Coverage, as well as our Kickoff team. He's evaluated on our Punting, Punt Coverage, AND, Punt Returns. He's evaluated on much more than just Graham Gano's FG% and Graham Gano's tendency to be Shank-A-Potamus.

Do your research. Look at the performance of ALL of those aspects of his Special Teams units over the years, and then judge Danny Smith. Same goes for Gano.

Look at his production over the last 3 years, and evaluate him. If you do that, and still think he deserves to kick in this league, then fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But, let's not confuse the issues.

Again, the numbers say Gano was a 85% kicker on kicks he had a chance of making.

The numbers say he made 68% of his kicks in 2010, and 71% in 2011. YOU say we should give him credit for whatever you choose to give him credit for. Again. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

Quit comparing deciding where to kick a kickoff to defense. This is so simple even you should be able to understand it. Danny decides where he wants Gano to kick. He has a kicker that can put the ball out of the back of the end zone on every kick off so why keep asking him to do something he has a hard time doing.

I don't care if you agree with me because MS did.

Would I like Gano to be more reliable? Absuletly! Do I blame Gano for kicks that were blocked because the line didn't do its job or the holder dropped the damn snap? No, but apparently you do. I do blame Danny and MS for keeping a kicker with so many limitations, but they obviously think his potential out weighs his limitations.

You make almost no sense with your "rants". See I can say your posts are stupid too. The thing is, they are.

Skinsfan33

You make almost no sense with your "rants". See I can say your posts are stupid too. The thing is, they are.

Grow up. Disagreeing and/or challenging your flawed logic isn't stupidity. What are you 12?

Maybe being dead last year in and year out is acceptable to you. I get it. To each their own.

The Hogster wrote:Skinsfan33

You make almost no sense with your "rants". See I can say your posts are stupid too. The thing is, they are.

Grow up. Disagreeing and/or challenging your flawed logic isn't stupidity. What are you 12?

LoL! Was thinkin the same thing when I read your post.

Every time Gano misses a Field Goal, I think about this song from the TV Sitcom "Martin" Titled "Don't You Know No Good"

Every time Gano comes out, shanks a FG wide right and walks off the field like a kid lost at Walmart, I can't help but to want to tell Shanahan "Don't You Know No Good??"

I might change the words to Graham Gano No Good for the last three games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-589HiLJVpQ

And, if people get mad at Tebow for 'Tebowing' can we please start a petition for Gano to stop pointing to the Heavens after every extra point or 27 yard FG?? Seriously dude. It's not God's fault when you're Shank-A-Potamus, so give that a rest.

Wow, the hate has scaled up since the last time I checked in here. I guess reasoning just wasn't interesting enough.

OK. Have fun.

Irn-Bru wrote:Wow, the hate has scaled up since the last time I checked in here. I guess reasoning just wasn't interesting enough.

OK. Have fun.

Funny you say that... I noticed earlier in the thread that things were civil and calm, it definitely stood out.

There is absolutely no reason to bring in any competiton for Gano. We are out of contention, are on pace to finish last place, and a new kicker is not magically going to fix everything. We can bring in competition next year in the preseason. For now, we're stuck with Gano.

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is absolutely no reason to bring in any competiton for Gano. We are out of contention, are on pace to finish last place, and a new kicker is not magically going to fix everything. We can bring in competition next year in the preseason. For now, we're stuck with Gano.

I agree that now is not the time. However, I disagree that Gano should be on this roster come camp/preseason. He has absolutely no business even getting an invitation to OTAs next year. The guy is putrid and if not on our roster probably wouldn't even be in the NFL. Seriously, how many players can you point to and definitely say that he is the absolute WORST in the NFL at his job two years running? Cut this joker lose as soon as the season ends. It's not hard to replace a guy that can barely make 70% of his kicks.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is absolutely no reason to bring in any competiton for Gano. We are out of contention, are on pace to finish last place, and a new kicker is not magically going to fix everything. We can bring in competition next year in the preseason. For now, we're stuck with Gano.

I agree that now is not the time. However, I disagree that Gano should be on this roster come camp/preseason. He has absolutely no business even getting an invitation to OTAs next year. The guy is putrid and if not on our roster probably wouldn't even be in the NFL. Seriously, how many players can you point to and definitely say that he is the absolute WORST in the NFL at his job two years running? Cut this joker lose as soon as the season ends. It's not hard to replace a guy that can barely make 70% of his kicks.

+1

I would cut him now, but I agree with everything you said in this post. The season is lost for sure. That would simply make it easier for me to bring in another guy. I prefer to rule with an even hand--preferably an Iron hand balled into a fist. Send a message to the locker room that last isn't acceptable whether we have a chance or not. Change the culture.

CanesSkins26 wrote:I agree that now is not the time. However, I disagree that Gano should be on this roster come camp/preseason. He has absolutely no business even getting an invitation to OTAs next year.

LOL. You guys are HARSH!! hah. The guy just broke the team record for longest kick this year. You won't even let him show up for OTAs???

The funny thing about Gano is that he's our 16th kicker in the past 15 seasons. He's just the latest in a long line of bad, inconsistent kickers. You can't really blame the team for trying to be patient and coach him up. Having even an average kicker on this team would make a huge difference.

I thought Suisham was an "average" kicker. I certainly think he's better than Gano.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I thought Suisham was an "average" kicker. I certainly think he's better than Gano.

You're probably forgetting the Saints game when he missed a 23 yard field goal and we lost the game. I can't say I blame you for blocking that out! Different kicker, same crap.

Suisham was terrible for the Cowboys too, but he's done ok for the Steelers hasn't he?

I like Gano - he is making it difficult on himself

the kicking competition will be a little more closely scrutinized than it has been

Gano will have to show a lot more to prove that he deserves to keep his job because of what has happened this season

riggofan wrote:You're probably forgetting the Saints game when he missed a 23 yard field goal and we lost the game. I can't say I blame you for blocking that out! Different kicker, same crap.

Suisham was terrible for the Cowboys too, but he's done ok for the Steelers hasn't he?

Yep that was blocked out of my memory banks. I still think Gano is a downgrade over Suisham though.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:You're probably forgetting the Saints game when he missed a 23 yard field goal and we lost the game. I can't say I blame you for blocking that out! Different kicker, same crap.

Suisham was terrible for the Cowboys too, but he's done ok for the Steelers hasn't he?

Yep that was blocked out of my memory banks. I still think Gano is a downgrade over Suisham though.

Sorry man - didn't mean to bring it up! hah. You're probably right though about Suisham/Gano at this point in their careers.

The problem is always that we'll let Gano walk and he'll go become the most clutch kicker the Eagles ever had for the next twelve years.