The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

riggofan wrote:

Countertrey wrote: Yet, the incessant need to find excuses for these OC failures baffle me. Kyle's game management is atrocious. This was a winnable game. Blame Rex all you want, the game was placed in his hands UNECESSARILY. Blame Gano for the worlds most hideous pooch kick off... but why weren't we kicking to the end zone???

I don't need to make excuses for the OC, and I even agree that Kyle shouldn't have gotten away from the run in the second half. I just think this stuff is completely overrated. These coordinators get way too much credit when a team is doing well and in this case a retarded amount of blame when the team is sucking. Who is this offensive genius that we should have had calling plays that would have beaten the Jets Sunday? Al Saunders? Jim Zorn? Joe Gibbs?

I just think its a lame excuse and typical of the fan base. Kyle Shanahan is the whipping boy that frustrated fans have latched onto around here for whatever reason.

Aside from the coaching changes ... what major roster enhancements were done to take the 49ers from the cellar to the 2nd best record in the NFL (the only reason why they aren't number one is because of the 12-0 dominance of the Packers)? What made Alex Smith successful after 6 years of futility, so mediocre to bad, that the 49ers were thinking of releasing him?

Coaching. The 10-2 49ers are basically the same team as last years 6-10 team, roster wise.

RayNAustin wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Countertrey wrote: Yet, the incessant need to find excuses for these OC failures baffle me. Kyle's game management is atrocious. This was a winnable game. Blame Rex all you want, the game was placed in his hands UNECESSARILY. Blame Gano for the worlds most hideous pooch kick off... but why weren't we kicking to the end zone???

I don't need to make excuses for the OC, and I even agree that Kyle shouldn't have gotten away from the run in the second half. I just think this stuff is completely overrated. These coordinators get way too much credit when a team is doing well and in this case a retarded amount of blame when the team is sucking. Who is this offensive genius that we should have had calling plays that would have beaten the Jets Sunday? Al Saunders? Jim Zorn? Joe Gibbs?

I just think its a lame excuse and typical of the fan base. Kyle Shanahan is the whipping boy that frustrated fans have latched onto around here for whatever reason.

Aside from the coaching changes ... what major roster enhancements were done to take the 49ers from the cellar to the 2nd best record in the NFL (the only reason why they aren't number one is because of the 12-0 dominance of the Packers)? What made Alex Smith successful after 6 years of futility, so mediocre to bad, that the 49ers were thinking of releasing him?

Coaching. The 10-2 49ers are basically the same team as last years 6-10 team, roster wise.

that 49ers team is loaded with talent that we are not.. they have upgraded there Oline through the draft over the last couple of seasons and have a very strong Defense which we do not.. they have a stud RB.. better WRs etc..

They have been underachieving for the last couple of seasons and Alex Smith was a former #1 overall pick so there was clearly talent there..

I know everyone wants the quick fix as would I but we arent a coaching change away .. I know our coaches stuck their reputations on Grossman and Beck but come on people they arent going to sit there and say we dont have the QB talent to compete

What QB was available this offseason that was a long term solution to our QB problems? please tell me...

and in regards to the draft this was a very weak QB class and yes Newton (who we had no chance at) and Dalton ( who we missed on.. it happens ) look good.. no one saw Locker going 8th or Ponder going 12th and Gabbert looks terrible.. I would rather wait one more year and get a QB that the team really feels can be a fit than reach on a QB just because..

But yes lets fire the OC and install ANOTHER new offense that will set us back ANOTHER year .. if only we the fans ran this team.. we would be on a Super Bowl win streak of unprecedented proportions

riggofan wrote:

Countertrey wrote: Yet, the incessant need to find excuses for these OC failures baffle me. Kyle's game management is atrocious. This was a winnable game. Blame Rex all you want, the game was placed in his hands UNECESSARILY. Blame Gano for the worlds most hideous pooch kick off... but why weren't we kicking to the end zone???

I don't need to make excuses for the OC, and I even agree that Kyle shouldn't have gotten away from the run in the second half. I just think this stuff is completely overrated. These coordinators get way too much credit when a team is doing well and in this case a retarded amount of blame when the team is sucking. Who is this offensive genius that we should have had calling plays that would have beaten the Jets Sunday? Al Saunders? Jim Zorn? Joe Gibbs?

I just think its a lame excuse and typical of the fan base. Kyle Shanahan is the whipping boy that frustrated fans have latched onto around here for whatever reason.

Well said. The Kyle Shanahan hate is absurd. Sure he could do some things better, but what coach on this couldn't?

I'm not 'hating' on the OC - I just want to see him do his damn job better, is all we're askin' - no big deal

Kyle's not the problem here by any stretch but I haven't seen much to make me feel great about him as OC either

when we get things together here I've got a bad feeling that he's still going to be not doing his job well, is all

everydayAskinsday wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

riggofan wrote: I don't need to make excuses for the OC, and I even agree that Kyle shouldn't have gotten away from the run in the second half. I just think this stuff is completely overrated. These coordinators get way too much credit when a team is doing well and in this case a retarded amount of blame when the team is sucking. Who is this offensive genius that we should have had calling plays that would have beaten the Jets Sunday? Al Saunders? Jim Zorn? Joe Gibbs?

I just think its a lame excuse and typical of the fan base. Kyle Shanahan is the whipping boy that frustrated fans have latched onto around here for whatever reason.

Aside from the coaching changes ... what major roster enhancements were done to take the 49ers from the cellar to the 2nd best record in the NFL (the only reason why they aren't number one is because of the 12-0 dominance of the Packers)? What made Alex Smith successful after 6 years of futility, so mediocre to bad, that the 49ers were thinking of releasing him?

Coaching. The 10-2 49ers are basically the same team as last years 6-10 team, roster wise.

that 49ers team is loaded with talent that we are not.. they have upgraded there Oline through the draft over the last couple of seasons and have a very strong Defense which we do not.. they have a stud RB.. better WRs etc..

They have been underachieving for the last couple of seasons and Alex Smith was a former #1 overall pick so there was clearly talent there..

I know everyone wants the quick fix as would I but we arent a coaching change away .. I know our coaches stuck their reputations on Grossman and Beck but come on people they arent going to sit there and say we dont have the QB talent to compete

What QB was available this offseason that was a long term solution to our QB problems? please tell me...

and in regards to the draft this was a very weak QB class and yes Newton (who we had no chance at) and Dalton ( who we missed on.. it happens ) look good.. no one saw Locker going 8th or Ponder going 12th and Gabbert looks terrible.. I would rather wait one more year and get a QB that the team really feels can be a fit than reach on a QB just because..

But yes lets fire the OC and install ANOTHER new offense that will set us back ANOTHER year .. if only we the fans ran this team.. we would be on a Super Bowl win streak of unprecedented proportions

The point was, SF had the same record as us last year, and the most significant change was the coaching staff, which directly challenges your claim that the coaches get too much credit for wins and losses. Clearly, Harbaugh has done an amazing job with basically the same talent the team had last year. That's the first point.

The second point is ...and I know I'm going to catch hell for this .... but McNabb was better than Beck or Grossman ... and the numbers show that, in spite of the fact that the entire team was learning a new offense, and the o-line was way worse than it is now, and McNabb had a coach that was undermining him, then disrespecting him. They burned that bridge unnecessarily, with no real plan to replace McNabb after they burned a good pick to get him, and then signed him to an extension. This year, Hasselbeck was also available, and he's not doing too bad now, with numbers better than what Grossman or Beck has managed ... and he was a West Coast QB.

I guess the main issue is that I was expecting improvement over last year, yet our offense is not only worse, it's continued to get worse from game one moving forward this year. At times they literally look totally inept, and non-competitive. The real kicker is, points wise, there isn't a dimes worth of difference in this offense compared to Jim Zorn's, with the Bingo Caller calling plays. That's just how bad this offense is. Watching this offense week after week, it's like watching a car accident on video tape, instant replay ... we see the same mistakes, the same failures and it indicates that Kyle Shanahan has about as much of a clue as to how to fix these things as Chief Zee.

With the miscalculations at QB (and that's 3 miscalculations, 4 if you count Jason Campbell ... and I cannot even believe it's come down to the point where I actually miss Campbell ) in just two years ... these guys are the THREE FREAKING STOOGES ... with only Moe missing to complete the trio.

So yeah, I'm REAL confident that these guys will be making the right move with the next QB they select. And if they are wrong this next time ... we''l be looking at the same nightmare for the next 2-3 years.

As an old Baptist Minister might say .. these two have bad breath, stinky feet, and they don't believe in Jesus. And that's enough for me.

RayNAustin wrote:

everydayAskinsday wrote:

RayNAustin wrote: Aside from the coaching changes ... what major roster enhancements were done to take the 49ers from the cellar to the 2nd best record in the NFL (the only reason why they aren't number one is because of the 12-0 dominance of the Packers)? What made Alex Smith successful after 6 years of futility, so mediocre to bad, that the 49ers were thinking of releasing him?

Coaching. The 10-2 49ers are basically the same team as last years 6-10 team, roster wise.

that 49ers team is loaded with talent that we are not.. they have upgraded there Oline through the draft over the last couple of seasons and have a very strong Defense which we do not.. they have a stud RB.. better WRs etc..

They have been underachieving for the last couple of seasons and Alex Smith was a former #1 overall pick so there was clearly talent there..

I know everyone wants the quick fix as would I but we arent a coaching change away .. I know our coaches stuck their reputations on Grossman and Beck but come on people they arent going to sit there and say we dont have the QB talent to compete

What QB was available this offseason that was a long term solution to our QB problems? please tell me...

and in regards to the draft this was a very weak QB class and yes Newton (who we had no chance at) and Dalton ( who we missed on.. it happens ) look good.. no one saw Locker going 8th or Ponder going 12th and Gabbert looks terrible.. I would rather wait one more year and get a QB that the team really feels can be a fit than reach on a QB just because..

But yes lets fire the OC and install ANOTHER new offense that will set us back ANOTHER year .. if only we the fans ran this team.. we would be on a Super Bowl win streak of unprecedented proportions

The point was, SF had the same record as us last year, and the most significant change was the coaching staff, which directly challenges your claim that the coaches get too much credit for wins and losses. Clearly, Harbaugh has done an amazing job with basically the same talent the team had last year. That's the first point.

The second point is ...and I know I'm going to catch hell for this .... but McNabb was better than Beck or Grossman ... and the numbers show that, in spite of the fact that the entire team was learning a new offense, and the o-line was way worse than it is now, and McNabb had a coach that was undermining him, then disrespecting him. They burned that bridge unnecessarily, with no real plan to replace McNabb after they burned a good pick to get him, and then signed him to an extension. This year, Hasselbeck was also available, and he's not doing too bad now, with numbers better than what Grossman or Beck has managed ... and he was a West Coast QB.

I guess the main issue is that I was expecting improvement over last year, yet our offense is not only worse, it's continued to get worse from game one moving forward this year. At times they literally look totally inept, and non-competitive. The real kicker is, points wise, there isn't a dimes worth of difference in this offense compared to Jim Zorn's, with the Bingo Caller calling plays. That's just how bad this offense is. Watching this offense week after week, it's like watching a car accident on video tape, instant replay ... we see the same mistakes, the same failures and it indicates that Kyle Shanahan has about as much of a clue as to how to fix these things as Chief Zee.

With the miscalculations at QB (and that's 3 miscalculations, 4 if you count Jason Campbell ... and I cannot even believe it's come down to the point where I actually miss Campbell ) in just two years ... these guys are the THREE FREAKING STOOGES ... with only Moe missing to complete the trio.

So yeah, I'm REAL confident that these guys will be making the right move with the next QB they select. And if they are wrong this next time ... we''l be looking at the same nightmare for the next 2-3 years.

As an old Baptist Minister might say .. these two have bad breath, stinky feet, and they don't believe in Jesus. And that's enough for me.

1. Compare San Fran's roster with ours, it's not even really close. They have more talent at just about every position. They were 6-10 last season because their coaches sucked, while we were 6-10 because our players suck.

2. McNabb just got cut by the Vikings and no other NFL team wants anything to do with him. He's out of shape, is lazy, has a bad attitude, and is doooone.

3. We aren't going to see improvement in the offense until we start improving our offensive personnel. No coaching is going to make a difference with the players (or lack thereof) on offense.

4. I agree about the decisions at qb. This is why I've argued in many posts that Shanahan (the tan one) has no business being the GM here. Ultimately, I think the issue with the team is Shanahan as GM, not Mike and Kyle as coaches.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

everydayAskinsday wrote: that 49ers team is loaded with talent that we are not.. they have upgraded there Oline through the draft over the last couple of seasons and have a very strong Defense which we do not.. they have a stud RB.. better WRs etc..

They have been underachieving for the last couple of seasons and Alex Smith was a former #1 overall pick so there was clearly talent there..

I know everyone wants the quick fix as would I but we arent a coaching change away .. I know our coaches stuck their reputations on Grossman and Beck but come on people they arent going to sit there and say we dont have the QB talent to compete

What QB was available this offseason that was a long term solution to our QB problems? please tell me...

and in regards to the draft this was a very weak QB class and yes Newton (who we had no chance at) and Dalton ( who we missed on.. it happens ) look good.. no one saw Locker going 8th or Ponder going 12th and Gabbert looks terrible.. I would rather wait one more year and get a QB that the team really feels can be a fit than reach on a QB just because..

But yes lets fire the OC and install ANOTHER new offense that will set us back ANOTHER year .. if only we the fans ran this team.. we would be on a Super Bowl win streak of unprecedented proportions

The point was, SF had the same record as us last year, and the most significant change was the coaching staff, which directly challenges your claim that the coaches get too much credit for wins and losses. Clearly, Harbaugh has done an amazing job with basically the same talent the team had last year. That's the first point.

The second point is ...and I know I'm going to catch hell for this .... but McNabb was better than Beck or Grossman ... and the numbers show that, in spite of the fact that the entire team was learning a new offense, and the o-line was way worse than it is now, and McNabb had a coach that was undermining him, then disrespecting him. They burned that bridge unnecessarily, with no real plan to replace McNabb after they burned a good pick to get him, and then signed him to an extension. This year, Hasselbeck was also available, and he's not doing too bad now, with numbers better than what Grossman or Beck has managed ... and he was a West Coast QB.

I guess the main issue is that I was expecting improvement over last year, yet our offense is not only worse, it's continued to get worse from game one moving forward this year. At times they literally look totally inept, and non-competitive. The real kicker is, points wise, there isn't a dimes worth of difference in this offense compared to Jim Zorn's, with the Bingo Caller calling plays. That's just how bad this offense is. Watching this offense week after week, it's like watching a car accident on video tape, instant replay ... we see the same mistakes, the same failures and it indicates that Kyle Shanahan has about as much of a clue as to how to fix these things as Chief Zee.

With the miscalculations at QB (and that's 3 miscalculations, 4 if you count Jason Campbell ... and I cannot even believe it's come down to the point where I actually miss Campbell ) in just two years ... these guys are the THREE FREAKING STOOGES ... with only Moe missing to complete the trio.

So yeah, I'm REAL confident that these guys will be making the right move with the next QB they select. And if they are wrong this next time ... we''l be looking at the same nightmare for the next 2-3 years.

As an old Baptist Minister might say .. these two have bad breath, stinky feet, and they don't believe in Jesus. And that's enough for me.

1. Compare San Fran's roster with ours, it's not even really close. They have more talent at just about every position. They were 6-10 last season because their coaches sucked, while we were 6-10 because our players suck.

2. McNabb just got cut by the Vikings and no other NFL team wants anything to do with him. He's out of shape, is lazy, has a bad attitude, and is doooone.

3. We aren't going to see improvement in the offense until we start improving our offensive personnel. No coaching is going to make a difference with the players (or lack thereof) on offense.

4. I agree about the decisions at qb. This is why I've argued in many posts that Shanahan (the tan one) has no business being the GM here. Ultimately, I think the issue with the team is Shanahan as GM, not Mike and Kyle as coaches.

Say what you want ... when the Shanaklan benched McNabb (and sealed the downfall) in week 8 last year against the Lions ... the Redskins were 4-3. He played a few more games, but was not the same guy after the benching. But since that decision, the Redskins are 6-14.

The other interesting note is that when Grossman was benched this year, the Redskins were 3-2. So two years in a row, these clowns bench their starting QB at precisely the time when the team had a winning record.

That has nothing to do with GM'ing and has everything to do with coaching. Just sayin'

say what you will - this franchise is better off staying with Bruce & Mike running things and Mike as HC

they need more time to show that - BIG mistake to change things here ... for another year at least



I'm not sure that Kyle is a good OC - he's got to do his job a lot better
Kyle might be a good OC but I think he needs the players to be good - a good OC would not be doing this job that badly

any OC or DC can look like they are doing well with a good group of players around him
the better ones make the players they've got better AND try and game plan to suit their players

Kyle does not do these things well

CanesSkins26 wrote:We have no capable running backs besides Helu. Helu got 27 touches yesterday. What more do you want? It's his first year in the NFL it makes ZERO sense to feed him the ball 30 times a game, it'll either get him hurt or wear him down.

Uhh, Helu is our only capable player on offense. Do you not want to win games? You feed him the ball 60 times if you have to, especially if it's working. So you'd rather have Grossman throw the ball 46 times rather than Helu getting more carries? Did Torain even get a carry attempt in that game? Why not bring him in to let Helu rest? The run game was working and Kyle abandoned it yet again...so yes, he is partially to blame by putting the game in Rex Grossman's hands.

Yall talk like he's choosing to start Grossman while Tom Brady is on the bench. Did yall watch when Beck was in there, they score NO POINTS!! LMAO

It's getting harder and harder to take some of these posts seriously.

SkinsJock wrote:say what you will - this franchise is better off staying with Bruce & Mike running things and Mike as HC

they need more time to show that - BIG mistake to change things here ... for another year at least



I'm not sure that Kyle is a good OC - he's got to do his job a lot better
Kyle might be a good OC but I think he needs the players to be good - a good OC would not be doing this job that badly

any OC or DC can look like they are doing well with a good group of players around him
the better ones make the players they've got better AND try and game plan to suit their players

Kyle does not do these things well

Kyle assumed the Houston offense, he didn't create it. And, in 2009, the Texans were 30th in the league in rushing under Kyle. In 2010, they finished 7th in the league, and this year, they are 3rd.

Now, it's never a good thing to be imbalanced on offense, and you need to be able to run the ball, particularly in the NFC East. But if you go the pass happy rout, you need a top flight QB and a dominant receiver, which Kyle had in Houston.

Look, he's a Kid, with two years OC experience running someone else's offense with talented offensive players. He comes here, and tries to install a hybrid of the Houston system (no doubt with his own tweaks) with different players, and it's been a fiasco.

Someone said earlier that his "mettle has been tested". That's not true at all. His "mettle" melted into a blob here.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Yall talk like he's choosing to start Grossman while Tom Brady is on the bench. Did yall watch when Beck was in there, they score NO POINTS!! LMAO

No one is saying Beck is the savior or anything, I just think they pulled the trigger too son on putting Grossman back in. The turnovers are killing this team. Grossman is responsible for most of those. Beck also did not have the same supporting cast that Grossman now has, and continues to lose. I'd rather run the wildcat for the rest of the year than see Grossman take another snap.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Yall talk like he's choosing to start Grossman while Tom Brady is on the bench. Did yall watch when Beck was in there, they score NO POINTS!! LMAO

No one is saying Beck is the savior or anything, I just think they pulled the trigger too son on putting Grossman back in. The turnovers are killing this team. Grossman is responsible for most of those. Beck also did not have the same supporting cast that Grossman now has, and continues to lose. I'd rather run the wildcat for the rest of the year than see Grossman take another snap.

- They both suck.
- Grossman sucks less.
- It's apparent to me, the players, the coaches and the rest of the world that Beck is a bum. Get over it dude. They could barely score or move the ball with Beck. My goodness, I was on the Beck bandwagon too but jeez.

My biggest issue with the offense is not with NOT having a QB
Kyle does not do a good job of adapting what he (and Mike) want to better suit the players we have on the field

we do not have the players here right now to be executing the plays that Kyle wants
our QBs are not good but they should not be asked to put the ball in the air as often as they have

we are not a good offense - WE NEED TO RUN THE DAMN BALL

Chris Luva Luva wrote: They both suck.
- Grossman sucks less.
- It's apparent to me, the players, the coaches and the rest of the world that Beck is a bum. Get over it dude. They could barely score or move the ball with Beck. My goodness, I was on the Beck bandwagon too but jeez.

+1 - Grossman may not be good but he's way better than Beck

Mike & Bruce have not done well with the QB situation and this has to be a worry for all of us

Mike & Bruce need to bring in a FA QB ... THEN they need to draft a QB that can get ready to play ... and soon

BOTH of these players have to work out and I'm not as sure as I was that Bruce & Mike can get that done

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not 'hating' on the OC - I just want to see him do his damn job better, is all we're askin' - no big deal

Kyle's not the problem here by any stretch but I haven't seen much to make me feel great about him as OC either

when we get things together here I've got a bad feeling that he's still going to be not doing his job well, is all

Well I am hating on our OC! It's not that his plays can't work, the can when executed. It's that his play selection seems very rigid, inflexible, and poorly adapted to the talent on the field.

I see no significant difference in the plays called from Week 1 to Week 14. But, we're down several offensive lineman, a TE, a starting RB, and were without the same WRs.

The pass plays in this offense are slow developing 5-7 step drops, yet everyone and their mother knows that we (i) can't pass protect very well, and (ii) don't have much talent at WR.

The run plays are too few and far between, and even when we do run, it's the same stretch run off tackle.

There are no hot passes, smokes, quick screens, quick slants, or anything that is basically an extended handoff. That's what makes Kyle suck. He's calling plays that Schuab, Foster, & Andre Johnson could execute. We don't have those guys. So, what's taking this kid so long to get it?

The Broncos revamped their whole offense to suit Tebows strengths. We seem to have a cookie cutter script that we use regardless of personnell. #FAIL

SkinsJock wrote:we are not a good offense - WE NEED TO RUN THE DAMN BALL

I agree but this is NOT a ground and pound offense. They cannot just line up and push people over. I see mentioning San Fran, their offense is completely different. This offense needs the passing game to be successful. This line cannot beat 8 man fronts. The only way to alleviate that is to pass.

Granted, Kyle has his issues but it's more than him just not wanting to do it.

SkinsJock wrote:BOTH of these players have to work out and I'm not as sure as I was that Bruce & Mike can get that done

Regardless, U gotta give them time. They've made mistakes at QB, the most important position but have done awesome at others.

Getting rid of them, would be the worst mistake that this franchise could make and it just baffles me.... Well. I. Nevermind.

I don't want to get rid of Mike & Bruce

I don't think that Kyle can get the job done while working with his father

I am not saying that we should try to 'pound' the running game
I'd just like to see a game plan that utilizes the talents of the people we have on the field

I understand that the game plan calls for more passes than run plays - what we are seeing is way out of whack
Kyle is trying to run an offense that needs different players than we have right now

SkinsJock wrote:Kyle is trying to run an offense that needs different players than we have right now

And so are you and everyone else. LMAO. So what's the difference?

Hightower gone.
Moss was gone for a while.
Hankerson gone.
Kory gone.
Cooley gone.

They were talent deficient with them and without them, what do u expect?

People want them to run the ball 60 times a game, do U think defenses don't notice? Do U think this time is unstoppable with the run? C'mon fellas. This offensive line is not built to run the ball a billion times. They're too small. They're injured, they're missing players.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:We have no capable running backs besides Helu. Helu got 27 touches yesterday. What more do you want? It's his first year in the NFL it makes ZERO sense to feed him the ball 30 times a game, it'll either get him hurt or wear him down.

Uhh, Helu is our only capable player on offense. Do you not want to win games? You feed him the ball 60 times if you have to, especially if it's working. So you'd rather have Grossman throw the ball 46 times rather than Helu getting more carries? Did Torain even get a carry attempt in that game? Why not bring him in to let Helu rest? The run game was working and Kyle abandoned it yet again...so yes, he is partially to blame by putting the game in Rex Grossman's hands.

Look around the NFL...teams are very aware of not overusing rookies, especially running backs. Helu gets hurt or warn out, then what? It's obvious that they are being careful in expanding his role.

Why didn't Torain get carries? Because he sucks. He is averaging 3.5 yards per carry.

As for winning games, we were never going to be a playoff contender this year. It's a year of building and development. Lots of young guys are getting burn and we've seen progress on defense. We haven't seen any on offense, but injuries and the fact that we've done little to upgrade the talent is primarily responsible for that.

CanesSkins26 wrote: Look around the NFL...teams are very aware of not overusing rookies, especially running backs. Helu gets hurt or warn out, then what? It's obvious that they are being careful in expanding his role.

Why didn't Torain get carries? Because he sucks. He is averaging 3.5 yards per carry.

As for winning games, we were never going to be a playoff contender this year. It's a year of building and development. Lots of young guys are getting burn and we've seen progress on defense. We haven't seen any on offense, but injuries and the fact that we've done little to upgrade the talent is primarily responsible for that.

I agree with you except that we haven't seen progress on offense. I think we have.


- Davis truly stepped up again this year.
- Hankerson looked great.
- Hightower looked good.
- Helu looks great and will get better.
- The o-line when healthy improved and will get better with further retooling.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote: Look around the NFL...teams are very aware of not overusing rookies, especially running backs. Helu gets hurt or warn out, then what? It's obvious that they are being careful in expanding his role.

Why didn't Torain get carries? Because he sucks. He is averaging 3.5 yards per carry.

As for winning games, we were never going to be a playoff contender this year. It's a year of building and development. Lots of young guys are getting burn and we've seen progress on defense. We haven't seen any on offense, but injuries and the fact that we've done little to upgrade the talent is primarily responsible for that.

I agree with you except that we haven't seen progress on offense. I think we have.


- Davis truly stepped up again this year.
- Hankerson looked great.
- Hightower looked good.
- Helu looks great and will get better.
- The o-line when healthy improved and will get better with further retooling.

I agree to an extent. I think Davis and Helu have looked good, and the oline did play better early on. I was more referring to the unit as a whole, rather than certain individual players improving (Davis) or young guys playing well (Helu), but if you look at it in terms of individuals improving I think you're definitely right.

CanesSkins26 wrote:I agree to an extent. I think Davis and Helu have looked good, and the oline did play better early on. I was more referring to the unit as a whole, rather than certain individual players improving (Davis) or young guys playing well (Helu), but if you look at it in terms of individuals improving I think you're definitely right.

With the team choosing to not focus on offense last off-season, I think the progress that I've listed is a great sign.

We're seeing guys maturing within the offense. we're seeing guys step up when injury takes place. So with an off-season dedicated to them, I'm exicted to see what happens. I'm excited that, players who we thought were good this year will be replaced with better talent and reguated to the depth chart. That's quality depth. This is why it takes years to develop a team, this is what we've been missing. This is why we don't fire Kyle and/or Mike.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I agree with you except that we haven't seen progress on offense. I think we have.

We haven't seen any progress on offense (outside of a possible future RB with Helu), IMO, due to the injuries this team has had plague them all year.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:- Davis truly stepped up again this year.
- Hankerson looked great.
- Hightower looked good.
- Helu looks great and will get better.
- The o-line when healthy improved and will get better with further retooling.

-Who else is there to throw too this year? Davis was our only "go-to" guy on offense all year, it's no wonder his stats are better.
-Hankerson played in one full game. I couldn't even tell you what he did in that game.
-Helu is the only positive to come out of this offense this year. I agree that he wil continue to improve.
-The o-line began playing putrid ever since Lichtenstieger went down. Jamaal Brown is horrible, Trent Williams hasn't done anything to silence the "bust/overrated" critics, and they keep shuffling the O-line every game. Definitely not an improvement there.

RayNAustin wrote:The point was, SF had the same record as us last year, and the most significant change was the coaching staff, which directly challenges your claim that the coaches get too much credit for wins and losses.

Yeah but I never claimed that COACHES get too much credit for wins and losses. I said COORDINATORS. What I'm talking about specifically is play calling. I just think at that point its more about players executing. "The OC didn't call the right play" is just B.S. second guessing and kind of nitpicking in my opinion.

I'd completely agree with you about a change at head coach like in SF.