The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Christ remained on earth 40 days after ressurection before ascending to Heaven. HE COULD HAVE said something about "this is the new day" about the 1st day....BUT HE DIDN'T

He didn't say to use toilet paper either. But do you?

The point is six days of work, one day of rest. For people to say they believe for them one day or another is the day they want to do the day of rest is fine. For someone to say anyone who thinks someone else picked the wrong rest day and condemn them for that is just the sort of intolerance why I personally hate religion even though I believe in God.

Kazoo....no man can condemn but GOD alone. I condemn NO ONE. Toilet paper is important, no doubt.....but how much more IMPORTANT is Worship and Honor/Love for God and Obedience...? "If ye Love me KEEP my Commandments"

QUESTION IS: should we obey man rather than GOD...???

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

tribeofjudah wrote:^^^^ IN DUE TIME.......my friend. IF HE DID so back then, we wouldn't BE HERE today and have a chance at Eternal Life and Salvation, now would we....???

We cannot "rush" the ALMIGHTY..........HE does everything with Perfect timing.

For instance - did anyone see the pick 6 last night Seahawks vs Eagles?

DarthMonk

Red_One43 wrote:I picked Saturday. Does this mean that I get to go to heaven?

Here's one for you? When does the 7th day, actually begin?

Sometime during Friday evening - exact time depending on what month it is or 12:00 am Saturday morning?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Old Testament is a holy book for both Jews and Christians (not to mention Muslims). I also believe that book says the sabbath starts at night and I have often seen the beginning of night defined to be about 40 minutes after sunset when a 3rd star becomes visible (weather permitting).

As a matter of astronomy and calendar, what is Satruday now is not a multiple of 7 days after what was a Saturday 2,000 years ago. In other words, when I get up tomorrow I can say 700 days ago it was Saturday but 700,000 days ago it was not. In other words, what in the hell is Saturday?

I'm not sure the question posted initially in this thread can be taken very seriously. I'd say it's even up for grabs what honoring the sabbath means. We are talking about a translation of a translation of a translation (at least) of something written tens of centuries ago by an unknown author - IMHO.

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:I picked Saturday. Does this mean that I get to go to heaven?

Here's one for you? When does the 7th day, actually begin?

Sometime during Friday evening - exact time depending on what month it is or 12:00 am Saturday morning?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Old Testament is a holy book for both Jews and Christians (not to mention Muslims). I also believe that book says the sabbath starts at night and I have often seen the beginning of night defined to be about 40 minutes after sunset when a 3rd star becomes visible (weather permitting).

As a matter of astronomy and calendar, what is Satruday now is not a multiple of 7 days after what was a Saturday 2,000 years ago. In other words, when I get up tomorrow I can say 700 days ago it was Saturday but 700,000 days ago it was not. In other words, what in the hell is Saturday?

I'm not sure the question posted initially in this thread can be taken very seriously. I'd say it's even up for grabs what honoring the sabbath means. We are talking about a translation of a translation of a translation (at least) of something written tens of centuries ago by an unknown author - IMHO.

DarthMonk

The question can be taken seriously depending on your perspective.

Try this one: The OT begins with the beginning of the Earth, but of course, it wasn't written down at that time. By the time, it was written down (probably - no earlier than 700 B.C.), the practice of keeping the Sabbath starting on what we know as Friday evening was already in place anachronism) when it was written down in the OT. In other words just because it is true that the Bible says something doesn't mean that it is literally or scientifically true.

If you have some time, google - Israel Finkelstein, a Biblical Archaeologist, who I think is spot on in his interpretation of the history of Israel. Of course, he is branded as a heretic because his views go quite counter to the popular Jewish, Christian and Muslim beliefs. His views fits scientific and archeaological findings, but he, like myself believe in the genious of the Biblical books - not just the canon, but the pseudepigraphal books (Books like the Gospel of James where most of our Christian tradition comes from) and Apocryphal Books (books like Maccabees) as well. when I say "genious." I mean that the books are very human written by human beings who had a purpose. What you see today was not the purpose for which they wrote. Is there politics in the Bible? You bet! Like I said, it is a human group of books.

Is the question on this thread serious - you betcha! From Tribe's perspective, he is very serious. I respect that. From his perspective, he is abolutely right.

I also respect that you question the scientific validity of what is said in the Bible. From your perspective, you are absolutely right. Check out Finkelstein. I think that you might appreciate his findings and it might help you with your perspective.

Good post Red.... this is all a matter of Faith and Belief.

1. I believe the 7 days of Creation were 7 literal days (evening and morning) dark part first, night, sunset.....followed by the light part, day, sunlight. If you think about it, the day DOES NOT begin at mignight or 2am or someother time. If you follow the Bible, a new day BEGINS AT SUNSET.........the Jews surely believe this, as Friday sunset is the beginning of the Sabbath. Some do not believe them to be 7 literal days....that's your freedom of choice.

2. The First Sabbath was there Instituted in Eden...a memorial of Earth's "birthday" ONCE A WEEK, just like you and I have a birthday ONCE a year. God RESTED on the Seventh Day and Hallowed it (MADE IT HOLY).

3. Even before the 10 Commandments on Mt. Sinai....the SABBATH was to be observed as HOLY. Notice how MANNA from Heaven was sent in Exodus 16.... Manna was sent for 6 days and NOT sent on the Seventh Day Sabbath. They were warned not to save it overnight lest it spoiled and had worms. They were not to harvest Manna on the Sabbath as there would be NONE sent on that day. THIS WAS BEFORE the 10 Commandments were given in Exodus 20.

4. In regards to the 4th Commandment "remember the Sabbath day to KEEP IT HOLY" ....keep it Holy because God Sanctified it or made it Holy in the Beginning (Genesis 2) Like you would keep a fire going so it doesn't burn out.......you KEEP the Sabbath Holy because it's ALREADY Holy.

5. Some will say "the Sabbath is for the Jews"...... wrong. The Sabbath was instituted back in Eden,...there were NO JEWS then. The Jews didn't materialize until later on....Jews is derived from the name JUDAH who was a son of Jacob/Israel.

Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

tribeofjudah wrote:I believe the 7 days of Creation were 7 literal days (evening and morning) dark part first, night, sunset.....followed by the light part, day, sunlight. If you think about it, the day DOES NOT begin at mignight or 2am or someother time. If you follow the Bible, a new day BEGINS AT SUNSET.........the Jews surely believe this, as Friday sunset is the beginning of the Sabbath. Some do not believe them to be 7 literal days....that's your freedom of choice.

I take it by "literal" days, you mean Earth days. I don't see how that could be, though. That would mean that the entire universe's creation was timed to the rotation of the Earth, one planet orbiting one star in one galaxy. That idea is pretty man-centric to me. Who knows what a day is to God?

Deadskins wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:I believe the 7 days of Creation were 7 literal days (evening and morning) dark part first, night, sunset.....followed by the light part, day, sunlight. If you think about it, the day DOES NOT begin at mignight or 2am or someother time. If you follow the Bible, a new day BEGINS AT SUNSET.........the Jews surely believe this, as Friday sunset is the beginning of the Sabbath. Some do not believe them to be 7 literal days....that's your freedom of choice.

I take it by "literal" days, you mean Earth days. I don't see how that could be, though. That would mean that the entire universe's creation was timed to the rotation of the Earth, one planet orbiting one star in one galaxy. That idea is pretty man-centric to me. Who knows what a day is to God?

Hey DeadSkins, interesting thoughts bro....

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It is bizarre ....it just means that God is NOT BOUND by our concepts of time.......linear or imaginary.

My belief and understanding is that our Planet is a younger one compared to all the billions and trillions of planets, stars, galaxies....in this vast Universe.

Maybe the human mind is made in such a way that it poses questions that the human mind cannot solve. We can stand at the edge of infinity, but our brains cannot grasp it.

Irn-Bru wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:The Roman church admits to making this "change"...... it's NOT Biblical and it's not God's idea.

What if God set up a Church on Earth with the authority to do things like this? Then it would be both biblical and God's idea.

Bru.....you ask, what if...? Well it did not happen - unless you have proof or the inside scoop. Pray tell us.....

tribeofjudah wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:The Roman church admits to making this "change"...... it's NOT Biblical and it's not God's idea.

What if God set up a Church on Earth with the authority to do things like this? Then it would be both biblical and God's idea.

Bru.....you ask, what if...? Well it did not happen - unless you have proof or the inside scoop. Pray tell us.....

It didn't happen? So your claim is that Jesus didn't set up a Church on the Earth that was vested with his authority?

Bru...NOT the authority to change the true day of REST recorded in all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. Not a chance. IF God wanted it changed .......HE would have made it KNOWN TO MAN HIMSELF..... not by some papal edict....no way.

Btw.....Israel is known as God's chosen in the Bible, not some "future" entity to be known as the vatican. Jews (most) honor the 7th day Sabbath. Who changed it to the 1st day...???

tribeofjudah wrote:Bru...NOT the authority to change the true day of REST recorded in all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. Not a chance. IF God wanted it changed .......HE would have made it KNOWN TO MAN HIMSELF..... not by some papal edict....no way.

You are getting ahead of things here. (And it wasn't a papal edict that caused the shift from Saturday to Sunday: you see evidence for it in the Bible itself and in early Christian practice.)

But again, this is getting ahead of things. Why are you so sure God wouldn't have vested a Church with authority on spiritual matters, including pastoral guidance on the Sabbath?

Bru...give me a Bible text here...come on, throw me a bone. I want to learn what you know.

Bru....Psalms 19 says the Law of the LORD is Perfect....ALL 10 Commandments. They need NOT be changed and are NOT to be changed.

They are not, 10 suggestions or 10 good ideas or 10 recommendations.

They are 10 Commandments. God said: I CHANGE NOT....he is the same yesterday, today, and forever....!!!

The Faith and Knowledge and Understanding and Conviction that I have is that GOD today deems HIS HOLY DAY AS THE 7TH DAY SABBATH....the same as in the Beginning Genesis Creation, the same as the Sabbath that Jesus Himself observed and Honored and Kept Holy.

No man on earth or no church on earth has any business making such a change.

tribeofjudah wrote:Bru...give me a Bible text here...come on, throw me a bone. I want to learn what you know.

I've been thinking of Matthew chapter 16, especially the story in verses 13–20.

Bru....Psalms 19 says the Law of the LORD is Perfect....ALL 10 Commandments. They need NOT be changed and are NOT to be changed.

There are 613 commandments, not 10, that the psalmist is talking about. So either you follow all 613 commandments, or you think the way we go about fulfilling a commandment can change, or . . . something else. I don't know. What you are saying doesn't add up to a refutation of anything I've said here.

They are not, 10 suggestions or 10 good ideas or 10 recommendations.

Where did I say Christians don't have an obligation to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? That's never been in dispute.

Who accumulated and selected all the text that went into what is now called the Bible?

Tradition. Humans organized into schools, councils, some of rabbis and some of church bishops, all argued over which writings would be canonical. The Dead Sea Scrolls include fragments and almost-complete books that never made it into any canon. The "70", the Greek translation of what I call the Old Testament, varies from the later compilation in Hebrew.

Among Christian books, we know the names of some of the important people who determined what was in and what was out. A thousand years later, Martin Luther and John Calvin threw out a chunk of books -- "The Apocrypha" -- accepted by Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and the Church of England. Luther also wanted to toss the Epistle of James, because he didn't like the theology, and the Book of Esther, because he thought it was frivolous (which maybe it is, but I say that you are meant to laugh).

Within the books, humans transcribed and re-transcribed everything over and over, sometimes smoothing out wording and sometimes, probably, adding a few lines to fit the scribe's opinion.

All that is tradition. Issues get clarified within a tradition...some people agree, and others don't.

I suspect that the earliest church councils were more concerned with the nature of the Trinity than with which days counts as the first and which counts as the seventh day of the week. The debate over Father/Son/Holy Spirit went on for centuries, led to splits and massacres, and might have undermined the Empire.

Irn-Bru wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Bru...give me a Bible text here...come on, throw me a bone. I want to learn what you know.

I've been thinking of Matthew chapter 16, especially the story in verses 13–20.

Bru....Psalms 19 says the Law of the LORD is Perfect....ALL 10 Commandments. They need NOT be changed and are NOT to be changed.

There are 613 commandments, not 10, that the psalmist is talking about. So either you follow all 613 commandments, or you think the way we go about fulfilling a commandment can change, or . . . something else. I don't know. What you are saying doesn't add up to a refutation of anything I've said here.

They are not, 10 suggestions or 10 good ideas or 10 recommendations.

Where did I say Christians don't have an obligation to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? That's never been in dispute.

1. Bru....your dispute is WHAT DAY the Sabbath is....it is the 7th DAY OF EACH WEEK....Sanctified by GOD.

2. There are 10 Commandments. The others are Mosaic laws, ordinances, etc.... VERY DIFFERENT than the 10 Commandments, written ON STONE by the HAND OF GOD on Mt. Sinai. Yes, Moses had other ordinances and statutes....

3. Peter's name is Cephas (Greek)....means "little pebble".....THE ROCK OF AGES IS Jesus/God... When Jesus said this in Matthew 16, he was calling Peter the little pebble BUT UPON THIS ROCK (JESUS, MONOLITHIC ROCK)...WILL I BUILD MY CHURCH. This verse has been misunderstood and misconstrued for ages upon ages.

Furthermore....Peter was a Disciple AND Sinner like all of us. Peter Honored the 7th Day Sabbath....(look it up). Peter had NO BUSINESS changing the DAY OF REST from Sabbath Saturday to Sunday...and Frankly, I don't this Peter did such a thing.

The common belief is that the Roman Church was "started" by Peter....I don't think so....Peter was a JEW, was he not........???



Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

THEN.... JESUS CALLS OR REFERS TO PETER AS SATAN...LOOK HERE

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

PETER WAS WALKING WITH JESUS BUT STILL MESSING UP - AND I BELIEVE PETER WILL BE SAVED IN THE KINGDOM....

2. There are 10 Commandments. The others are Mosaic laws, ordinances, etc.... VERY DIFFERENT than the 10 Commandments, written ON STONE by the HAND OF GOD on Mt. Sinai. Yes, Moses had other ordinances and statutes....

The psalmist is talking about the law as a whole, not just the 10 commandments. You are making a distinction that nobody in the Bible made, saying that the 10 commandments come from God but the others were from Moses. (And interestingly enough that idea contradicts what Jesus taught about the law.)

3. Peter's name is Cephas (Greek)....means "little pebble".....THE ROCK OF AGES IS Jesus/God... When Jesus said this in Matthew 16, he was calling Peter the little pebble BUT UPON THIS ROCK (JESUS, MONOLITHIC ROCK)...WILL I BUILD MY CHURCH. This verse has been misunderstood and misconstrued for ages upon ages.

This is a controversial point, but even if I grant your view on what "rock" refers to, you still haven't refuted my point from the relevant text. Whatever the identity of the rock that Jesus talks about, in verse 19 he says that whatever Peter and/or the disciples bind or loose on Earth is bound in heaven. That looks to me like he is vesting authority in a church. It doesn't matter if the people given the authority were fallible human beings; the question is whether that authority was vested. Was it?

Bru....yes, God has a "church" on Earth made of his Faithful, Obedient, Willing co-workers for God's Kingdom. It is not 1 specific entity, religion, denomination - IMHO

Are you implying that God's Law written by his hand is not Perfect? You and I differ on this point.

The Church - is made up of you and me.

Jesus HONERED the 7th Day Sabbath. Good enough for HIM, good enough for me.

It baffles me why societies Honor: you shall not kill, shall not steal, shall not covet, etc.... They honor 9 of the Decaloug, BUT WAIVER AND MAKE EXCUSES FOR #4 (the longest 1 which states Who God is, Creator, His Kingdom and all Creation, specifying who is created...us...and that we HONOR AND KEEP IT HOLY....)

It's about WORSHIP and THE DAY of worship. Could it be that satan/devil/adversary.....longs to be worshipped and has deceived many to honor a day which is not Santified by God....?

Look what satan did to Jesus during the 40 days in the wilderness....he wanted JESUS to bow down and worship him. It would have been "game over" if Jesus had succumb.

....I would rather HONOR GOD.

Furthermore Bru....it is dangerous to take 1 text such as Matt 16 and build a whole new Gospel on that - WHEN all of Scripture points to the 7th Day as the True Day of Rest....!!!

Bru....yes, God has a "church" on Earth made of his Faithful, Obedient, Willing co-workers for God's Kingdom. It is not 1 specific entity, religion, denomination - IMHO

Again, that's getting a little ahead of things. The question is whether Jesus meant what he said to the disciples. Did he?

Are you implying that God's Law written by his hand is not Perfect?

No, I'm not implying that.

Jesus HONERED the 7th Day Sabbath. Good enough for HIM, good enough for me.

Do you obey the other 612 commandments as he did?

It baffles me why societies Honor: you shall not kill, shall not steal, shall not covet, etc.... They honor 9 of the Decaloug, BUT WAIVER AND MAKE EXCUSES FOR #4 (the longest 1 which states Who God is, Creator, His Kingdom and all Creation, specifying who is created...us...and that we HONOR AND KEEP IT HOLY....)

It's about WORSHIP and THE DAY of worship. Could it be that satan/devil/adversary.....longs to be worshipped and has deceived many to honor a day which is not Santified by God....?

Look what satan did to Jesus during the 40 days in the wilderness....he wanted JESUS to bow down and worship him. It would have been "game over" if Jesus had succumb.

....I would rather HONOR GOD.

All of this is totally nonresponsive to what I've said.

Furthermore Bru....it is dangerous to take 1 text such as Matt 16 and build a whole new Gospel on that - WHEN all of Scripture points to the 7th Day as the True Day of Rest....!!!

I'm not sure where "a whole new gospel" is coming from. I just asked if Jesus meant what he said in one particular text.

Once again, I think you are reading far too much into what I've written. That's understandable, because it is easy to make lots of assumptions when religion comes up. However, notice that an atheist could make the same arguments I've been making, since I'm just sticking to one or two possible arguments and the texts they concern. If you try to separate the argument itself from the categories you've labeled things with, I think you might find a reason to rethink the issue.

Bru...it takes Faith to believe in God and Faith to be an Atheist as well.

Your question of "do I think it's possible", yes with God all things are possible. Do I think it happened that way - NO I DON'T

I reference many Bible text but to an Atheist (which you may/may not be) ....Bible text don't matter much. This Thread is for Bible readers, as I've rightfully titled.

Bru, you've given me 1 Bible text in this whole dialogue of ours. I submit that there are dozens of Bible text to support the 7th day Sabbath in what we "know" today as the Bible. I cannot find ONE Bible text that states the solemnity, Holiness, of Sunday or another day.

I'm sorry I do not know about these 612 commandments: please enumerate them and share with me so I may have your knowledge. Where are they found in the Bible. I'm sorry missed them in my readings. I am not being funny - I'm being serious.

How could a follower of Christ and Bible reader like myself have missed these 612 commandments....? BOO for me

Did Jesus mean what he said to Peter? Yes....upon the Rock of Ages, Jesus will build his church, which means to say UPON JESUS, the church will be built.

Bru, you can find supporter for both views - yours and mine. There are pundits and scholars and commentator that will support both sides.

I'm not trying to proseletize.... I'm just asking the question of why did most of the world FORGET the 4th commandment of the Decalogue...?

tribeofjudah wrote:Bru...it takes Faith to believe in God and Faith to be an Atheist as well.

This is a popular opinion, but I disagree with it.

I reference many Bible text but to an Atheist (which you may/may not be)

I'm not an atheist; I'm a Catholic. But my point wasn't to put you on the defensive so that you'd only stick to general statements. My point was only that you were reading too much into what I was saying, and you weren't focusing on the point at hand. I would say "don't we see that Christ vested authority in his disciples" and you would respond with a tangent about the Vatican. That's just too many leaps to be of any help in the present discussion.

Bru, you've given me 1 Bible text in this whole dialogue of ours. I submit that there are dozens of Bible text to support the 7th day Sabbath in what we "know" today as the Bible. I cannot find ONE Bible text that states the solemnity, Holiness, of Sunday or another day.

The practice of Sunday as Sabbath is something that is recorded in the Bible (in Acts) but wasn't really definitive until a generation or two later. But as I've pointed out, that shift is not necessarily in contradiction to the Sabbath as it's recorded in the Bible.

I'm sorry I do not know about these 612 commandments: please enumerate them and share with me so I may have your knowledge. Where are they found in the Bible. I'm sorry missed them in my readings. I am not being funny - I'm being serious.

The traditional count of the number of laws in the OT is 613 commandments. The exact number or how you count them isn't as important as the fact that there are more than 10.

Did Jesus mean what he said to Peter? Yes....upon the Rock of Ages, Jesus will build his church, which means to say UPON JESUS, the church will be built.

That's not what I asked. Can you answer the question I asked?

Bru, you can find supporter for both views - yours and mine. There are pundits and scholars and commentator that will support both sides.

I'm not trying to proseletize.... I'm just asking the question of why did most of the world FORGET the 4th commandment of the Decalogue...?

I'm answering you: they didn't. You are begging the question when you say the (Christian) world isn't upholding that commandment.

Hey! We're back to where we started.

Bru...I don't subscribe to 613 commandments. I subscribe to 10 Commandments. My understanding is the rest are ordinances and precepts and Mosaic "laws" given by Moses.

You reference the 1st day written in the Bible. It is mentioned 7 or 8 times in the NT....never stating it was a new day of worship. Christ's followers were meeting to have a meal (break bread) and plan to spread the gospel. You submit that the "change" didn't happen centuries later - that is a stretch and leap on your part. I don't subscribe to that POV.

You and I will simply agree to disagree. I am not and care not to bash or disparrage your faith or religion. For me ....it has always been: WHAT DOES THE WORD (BIBLE) OF GOD SAY...?

God said it, I believe it........that good enough for me.

tribeofjudah wrote:Bru...I don't subscribe to 613 commandments. I subscribe to 10 Commandments. My understanding is the rest are ordinances and precepts and Mosaic "laws" given by Moses.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this. Jews have always taken "the law" to signify all of the first five books of the OT, not just the ten commandments. That's why you see them in the Bible (including Jesus) refer to the Law and the Prophets as meaning the whole of the Old Testament. When they read from "the law" it's from any part of it, not just the ten. Etc. This is affirmed in so many places in the Bible I have a hard time knowing where to start. What makes you think the law only means the ten commandments?

I'd especially like to see what makes you think Jesus and his audience thought the law only meant ten commandments. When asked what the greatest commandment is — i.e., the greatest part of the law — Jesus answers with a commandment that isn't one of the ten, and gives a second greatest commandment that also isn't part of the ten. (This story is in Matthew 22:36 and following if you aren't familiar with it.) How could the greatest part of the law not be one of the ten commandments, if the law only signifies the ten commandments?

You reference the 1st day written in the Bible. It is mentioned 7 or 8 times in the NT....never stating it was a new day of worship. Christ's followers were meeting to have a meal (break bread) and plan to spread the gospel. You submit that the "change" didn't happen centuries later - that is a stretch and leap on your part. I don't subscribe to that POV.

I submit that the change was present at the time of the NT and became universal practice shortly after. (Not centuries after; more along the lines of 30-50 years later, as best as I can tell.) There is no stretch and leap here.

But this is distracting from my original argument, which is that God may have established a church with the authority to prescribe a change to how we fulfill that commandment, whether right away or a thousand years later. I'm not going to let you change the subject on this point.

You and I will simply agree to disagree. I am not and care not to bash or disparrage your faith or religion. For me ....it has always been: WHAT DOES THE WORD (BIBLE) OF GOD SAY...?

God said it, I believe it........that good enough for me.

This is nonresponsive. My argument here is that what God says might differ from what you claim he says . . .

Besides, you never answered my question: Jesus says that whatever his disciples bound/loosed on Earth would be bound/loosed in heaven. Did he mean that?

Bru..."your questions"...what are we, under interrogation here..???

Mosaic laws pointed to the Santuary services and the Sacrifice. The Lamb of God (JESUS) was the ultimate sacrifice and essentially wiped clean the sacrificial system. Mosaic laws....NO MAS...!!!

10 Commandments....YES MAS..!!! Written on Stone by the Hand of YHWH. I will honor those, thank you.

Anywho.....round and round we go. I don't subcribe to your "understanding" and vice versa.

Sola Scriptura for me. Bible, written by men who were INSPIRED OF GOD. Your idea of the change 30 -40 years...???? I don't see that in Scripture. Again you have not given any Bible Texts, and I can't just take your word for it....sorry my man.