The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

1niksder wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Snyder's got to be itchin' to get back in - hopefully he let's these guys work this out
we are still in dire straits but these guys should get at least another year

RG III does look like a very promising player but it's the intangibles that will decide who these guys bring in

It's the ShannAllen intangibles that I'm starting to worry about

I'm having a few doubts myself

these guys have made a difference here but there is also evidence to indicate that they have 'hurt' the process of recovery too

at this time I'm hoping that we don't make another "change" just because ...
at the same time, NOBODY should want Snyder 'involved' for any reason

as bad as things still are - we do NOT need to go back to that 'system'


RG III is just one of many QBs that we can draft that will put us in better shape than we are
we will still need an interim QB - these 2 are hopeless

There is absolutely no question that of all QBs in the NCAA, RGIII is the most athletic. It's not even close. What is even better is he has everything else - accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, and character. He totally has the it factor.

He appears to be a hybrid of Vick, Rodgers, Newton, and Renaldo Nehemiah.

I know that's nuts but that is what I see when I watch. He is bigger than Vick (6' 2", 220 #)but smaller than Newton. He's faster than Newton (4.4) and almost as fast as Vick. He throws accurately in the pocket or on the run ala Rodgers.

He ran a 49 in the 400 meter hurdles as a high school junior.

Let's get this guy.

DarthMonk

cowboykillerzRED wrote:I think RG is a better athlete and is a great qb without some of the help those guys have. Kinda hard to compare but he is a beast. More tds then Inc passes over half way through the year? Ya ill take it

DarthMonk wrote:There is absolutely no question that of all QBs in the NCAA, RGIII is the most athletic. It's not even close. What is even better is he has everything else - accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, and character. He totally has the it factor.

He appears to be a hybrid of Vick, Rodgers, Newton, and Renaldo Nehemiah.

I know that's nuts but that is what I see when I watch. He is bigger than Vick (6' 2", 220 #)but smaller than Newton. He's faster than Newton (4.4) and almost as fast as Vick. He throws accurately in the pocket or on the run ala Rodgers.

He ran a 49 in the 400 meter hurdles as a high school junior.

Let's get this guy.

DarthMonk

cowboykillerzRED wrote:I think RG is a better athlete and is a great qb without some of the help those guys have. Kinda hard to compare but he is a beast. More tds then Inc passes over half way through the year? Ya ill take it

I agree that RGIII has great potential, but I don't understand why you use his athletism as the prime example. For a QB, athletism is not a make or break attribute for a QB. The best QBs in the league aren't super-athletic types: see Brady, Manning, Brees, Schaub, Roethlisburger, Stafford, etc. A QB should stay in the pocket at least 75% of the time -- so that is what you need to focus on; not the 10-20% of the time they roll out and make a pass. It's great if they can do it (like Rodgers), but most can. I am confident that Barkley and Jones can both adequately run a bootleg pass option.

Also -- speed DOES NOT MATTER at the QB position -- at all. Tom Brady ran a 5.28 40, Rivers ran a 5.08, Brees a 4.88, -- most run it between 4.7 - 4.9. And even when they run it in the sub-4.7 range -- it never makes a difference

In terms of the more tds than ints -- he runs a spread offense and the majority of his passes are on the short side. The fact that he has more TDs than INTs shows he has top flight accuracy on short to mid range passes. I was watching a highlight reel of a couple of his games and close to 85% were passes thrown under 10 yards, but YAC was high. He does have good accuracy on those types of throws, but I did not see enough on the +20 yards to form a conclusion.

With all this said, he still can be a great QB in the league -- I have no doubt. He is super smart and a great person. He is a leader and has all the intangibles. I just do not think that speed and athletism are going to be the attributes that directly result in him becoming a top QB. I would prefer to hear his top attributes as being laser accuracy and ability to find open receivers.

No argument (or very little) here from me - just clarification.

markshark84 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:There is absolutely no question that of all QBs in the NCAA, RGIII is the most athletic. It's not even close. What is even better is he has everything else - accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, and character. He totally has the it factor.

He appears to be a hybrid of Vick, Rodgers, Newton, and Renaldo Nehemiah.

I know that's nuts but that is what I see when I watch. He is bigger than Vick (6' 2", 220 #)but smaller than Newton. He's faster than Newton (4.4) and almost as fast as Vick. He throws accurately in the pocket or on the run ala Rodgers.

He ran a 49 in the 400 meter hurdles as a high school junior.

Let's get this guy.

DarthMonk

cowboykillerzRED wrote:I think RG is a better athlete and is a great qb without some of the help those guys have. Kinda hard to compare but he is a beast. More tds then Inc passes over half way through the year? Ya ill take it

I agree that RGIII has great potential, but I don't understand why you use his athletism as the prime example. For a QB, athletism is not a make or break attribute for a QB. The best QBs in the league aren't super-athletic types: see Brady, Manning, Brees, Schaub, Roethlisburger, Stafford, etc. A QB should stay in the pocket at least 75% of the time -- so that is what you need to focus on; not the 10-20% of the time they roll out and make a pass. It's great if they can do it (like Rodgers), but most can. I am confident that Barkley and Jones can both adequately run a bootleg pass option.

My main deal here was what I was responding to. I was responding to this: "I THINK RG is a better athlete ..." Thus, my reply focuses on his INCREDIBLE athleticism and elevates "I think ..." to CERTAINTY.

markshark84 wrote: Also -- speed DOES NOT MATTER at the QB position -- at all. Tom Brady ran a 5.28 40, Rivers ran a 5.08, Brees a 4.88, -- most run it between 4.7 - 4.9. And even when they run it in the sub-4.7 range -- it never makes a difference

I agree and disagree. To say speed at QB NEVER makes a difference is overstating your case. I should not have to explain why but briefly - do you think Cam Newton's speed has made a difference in his 13 rushing TDs?. Overall though, I agree that speed at this position is usually less important than many other factors.

markshark84 wrote:In terms of the more tds than ints -- he runs a spread offense and the majority of his passes are on the short side. The fact that he has more TDs than INTs shows he has top flight accuracy on short to mid range passes. I was watching a highlight reel of a couple of his games and close to 85% were passes thrown under 10 yards, but YAC was high. He does have good accuracy on those types of throws, but I did not see enough on the +20 yards to form a conclusion.

I believe it is more Tds than INCOMPLETIONS!!! - a startling stat!

markshark84 wrote:With all this said, he still can be a great QB in the league -- I have no doubt. He is super smart and a great person. He is a leader and has all the intangibles. I just do not think that speed and athletism are going to be the attributes that directly result in him becoming a top QB. I would prefer to hear his top attributes as being laser accuracy and ability to find open receivers.

Which is why I included the tag "What is even better is he has everything else - accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, and character. He totally has the it factor."

I think "laser accuracy" describes him well. He has a cannon. He can make every throw. He can make them on the move while maintaining accuracy. He can extend plays and actually tends to look for the throw before taking off - and when he takes off he's deadly.

As the Genie Robin Williams once said: "are you gonna love this guy."

DarthMonk

^ +1

Thank you! The history of athletic quarterbacks is that they have a tendency to let their athleticism dictate their potential... and cover for their flaws... usually a lack of pass discipline, and/or football intellect (eg Vick's difficulty working from the pocket for much of his career).

RGIII is not JUST an athletic quarterback, but is also a disciplined, highly intelligent quarterback, who is a student of the game. He works hard, not just in the gym or on the practice field, but in the film room, as well.

He's not merely a larger Mike Vick with good character... he's more like a very athletic Tom Brady. Imagine what Brady would be if he could run, as well. Who could contain him???

Granted: He is NOT NFL ready... but I love this kid's potential to be a Beast quarterback in the future. He is the quarterback who could make Kyle look like a genius.

Hence: Whiff 4 Griff (people... it's just a slogan)

I'm curious to see where the rankings of the qbs (griffin, luck, barkely, jones, kellen (boise state), the guy from wisconsin, etc.) by the experts is post-combine. I know that the redskins are going to reveal exactly squat (which is how I like it, actually) about their draft logic prior to making each pic. If shanahan taught me anything last year its that he will do damn near anything in the draft. Right now, I am firmly all in for either Barkely or Griffin and starting to lean toward griffin, even if Barkely's available. Someone noted his short medium passing prowess, but what has impressed me in the oklahoma and I believe 2 of the subsequent games has been his deep ball which seems to always be on the money to his WRs. And his decision making, at least what I've seen, seems to be quite good (from where and when to throw, to the difference between moving to create time/space for WRs to break open vs. when to pull it down and boogie, to how he carries himself in interviews, etc. Be very curious to hear what the buzz on him will be come draft.

Also wondering if we might not be able to snag him in the second round rather than the first.

Just saw your sig.

Congrats on Ezra "7 pound" Merrick!

DarthMonk

emoses14 wrote:I'm curious to see where the rankings of the qbs (griffin, luck, barkely, jones, kellen (boise state), the guy from wisconsin, etc.) by the experts is post-combine. I know that the redskins are going to reveal exactly squat (which is how I like it, actually) about their draft logic prior to making each pic. If shanahan taught me anything last year its that he will do damn near anything in the draft. Right now, I am firmly all in for either Barkely or Griffin and starting to lean toward griffin, even if Barkely's available. Someone noted his short medium passing prowess, but what has impressed me in the oklahoma and I believe 2 of the subsequent games has been his deep ball which seems to always be on the money to his WRs. And his decision making, at least what I've seen, seems to be quite good (from where and when to throw, to the difference between moving to create time/space for WRs to break open vs. when to pull it down and boogie, to how he carries himself in interviews, etc. Be very curious to hear what the buzz on him will be come draft.

Also wondering if we might not be able to snag him in the second round rather than the first.

DarthMonk wrote:Just saw your sig.

Congrats on Ezra "7 pound" Merrick!

DarthMonk

emoses14 wrote:I'm curious to see where the rankings of the qbs (griffin, luck, barkely, jones, kellen (boise state), the guy from wisconsin, etc.) by the experts is post-combine. I know that the redskins are going to reveal exactly squat (which is how I like it, actually) about their draft logic prior to making each pic. If shanahan taught me anything last year its that he will do damn near anything in the draft. Right now, I am firmly all in for either Barkely or Griffin and starting to lean toward griffin, even if Barkely's available. Someone noted his short medium passing prowess, but what has impressed me in the oklahoma and I believe 2 of the subsequent games has been his deep ball which seems to always be on the money to his WRs. And his decision making, at least what I've seen, seems to be quite good (from where and when to throw, to the difference between moving to create time/space for WRs to break open vs. when to pull it down and boogie, to how he carries himself in interviews, etc. Be very curious to hear what the buzz on him will be come draft.

Also wondering if we might not be able to snag him in the second round rather than the first.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate that.

We need to take a page out of the Bengels book and draft Blackmon then RGIII somehow. Pick up a guard in the thrid and fourth round. Grab depth on D with everything else. Dont forget about free agency. We would be legit next year. Come join me in fantasy land

elprez19 wrote:We need to take a page out of the Bengels book and draft Blackmon then RGIII somehow. Pick up a guard in the thrid and fourth round. Grab depth on D with everything else. Dont forget about free agency. We would be legit next year. Come join me in fantasy land

Here's a fantasy:

RGIII and ...

... Shanahan has almost no choice but to take a quarterback at some point, and he should draft a receiver to pair him with. Alshon Jeffery and Justin Blackmon, two top-10 talents unlikely to fall to Washington, headline this class of receivers, but there is still value to be found in the second or third rounds.

One of those prospects is Dwight Jones, a 6'4", 225-pound receiver from UNC who runs a 4.53 second 40-yard dash and has all the physical tools to be the Redskins’ top wideout. He is ranked as the sixth- or seventh-best receiver in the draft, and he could easily fall to the second round, where Shanahan would do well to draft him.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9113 ... son/page/3

DarthMonk

RGIII for Heisman!

Love that R Griffin III won the Heisman - BIG congratulations to him & his family



Hope he makes the top 10 in the draft - he will NOT be taken before Luck or Barkley

I had a dream:



DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:I had a dream:



DarthMonk

I don't see "Wilson" or "The Duke" anywhere on that ball...

just sayin'...
... and didn't we retire the great Jay Schroeder's #10?

Countertrey wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I had a dream:



DarthMonk

I don't see "Wilson" or "The Duke" anywhere on that ball...

just sayin'...
... and didn't we retire the great Jay Schroeder's #10?

Me neither. I was wondering who'd notice first. I actually found a better pic with a #11 but couldn't link it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=griffin+ ... 29,r:0,s:0

You know Jay made a huge play in the Super Bowl after Wiliams went out. He got blind sided and it had fumble written all over it but he did not cough it up.

DarthMonk

NO ....not liking Landry Jones. Saw him on tv a few weeks ago and he absolutely STUNK IT UP.........

Be great to bring in Luck, Barkley or Griffin and we will draft a QB

Griffin offers a lot and I'd love to get him

we will be better off in 4 or 5 years if we continue to build the whole team and NOT give up draft picks


If we have seen anything or learned from this season it's that we are not far off from being competitive in the NFC East
we need to continue to add young players to the mix

this FO deserves to be looked and based on what they have done and NOT what has happened here before
OR based on what other francises have done - these guys will continue to add to what they've begun here
we all can look forward to being consistently competitive as long as the formula for success continues

DO NOT GIVE UP ANY DRAFT PICKS


love to get Griffin, however .... we really need to make sure we continue to add to the depth at all positions

NOT having Grossman or Beck as a starting QB here next season IS AN UPGRADE at the QB position

Here is the current order:

Indianapolis (1-13) LUCK QB
Minnesota (2-12) KALIL OT
St. Louis (2-12) BLACKMON WR
Jacksonville (4-10) BARKLEY or RGIII
Cleveland (4-10) BARKLEY or RGIII
Tampa Bay (4-10) CLAIBORNE CB
Washington (5-9) JONES QB

If you knew this was going to happen would you give our 1st rounder and Arakpo to the Jags for their number 1 in order to land Barkley or RGIII?

Would they? Would they need more?

DarthMonk

WE NEED TO ADD GOOD PLAYERS - NOT GIVE THEM AWAY

we need to continue to build

THANKFULLY this FO will not cave in to this Snyder type, idiotic way of running things

If all the good QBs are gone when we pick, we should continue to address areas of need

We do NOT want to give up what we've started

WE ARE NOT BAD ANYMORE and we have Rex Grossman as our starting QB



WE WILL BE BETTER AT QB NEXT SEASON by NOT STARTING GROSSMAN

I want to win the next 2 games

I don't care when we pick as long as we continue to build


KEEP ALL THE DRAFT PICKS

@mortreport

Chris Mortensen
No surprise: Baylor QB Robert Griffin III is informing Baylor coach Art Briles today he is turning pro, per family source.

RG III story on ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/ ... -going-pro

markshark84 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:There is absolutely no question that of all QBs in the NCAA, RGIII is the most athletic. It's not even close. What is even better is he has everything else - accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, and character. He totally has the it factor.

He appears to be a hybrid of Vick, Rodgers, Newton, and Renaldo Nehemiah.

I know that's nuts but that is what I see when I watch. He is bigger than Vick (6' 2", 220 #)but smaller than Newton. He's faster than Newton (4.4) and almost as fast as Vick. He throws accurately in the pocket or on the run ala Rodgers.

He ran a 49 in the 400 meter hurdles as a high school junior.

Let's get this guy.

DarthMonk

cowboykillerzRED wrote:I think RG is a better athlete and is a great qb without some of the help those guys have. Kinda hard to compare but he is a beast. More tds then Inc passes over half way through the year? Ya ill take it

I agree that RGIII has great potential, but I don't understand why you use his athletism as the prime example. For a QB, athletism is not a make or break attribute for a QB. The best QBs in the league aren't super-athletic types: see Brady, Manning, Brees, Schaub, Roethlisburger, Stafford, etc. A QB should stay in the pocket at least 75% of the time -- so that is what you need to focus on; not the 10-20% of the time they roll out and make a pass. It's great if they can do it (like Rodgers), but most can. I am confident that Barkley and Jones can both adequately run a bootleg pass option.

Also -- speed DOES NOT MATTER at the QB position -- at all. Tom Brady ran a 5.28 40, Rivers ran a 5.08, Brees a 4.88, -- most run it between 4.7 - 4.9. And even when they run it in the sub-4.7 range -- it never makes a difference

In terms of the more tds than ints -- he runs a spread offense and the majority of his passes are on the short side. The fact that he has more TDs than INTs shows he has top flight accuracy on short to mid range passes. I was watching a highlight reel of a couple of his games and close to 85% were passes thrown under 10 yards, but YAC was high. He does have good accuracy on those types of throws, but I did not see enough on the +20 yards to form a conclusion.

With all this said, he still can be a great QB in the league -- I have no doubt. He is super smart and a great person. He is a leader and has all the intangibles. I just do not think that speed and athletism are going to be the attributes that directly result in him becoming a top QB. I would prefer to hear his top attributes as being laser accuracy and ability to find open receivers.

The reports I hear is that he's got an accurate long ball too. And I tell you this, Drew Brees accuracy is what separates him from the rest of the pack, and is immeasurably important in generating YAC.

Now even though I'm high on Luck ... realistically, I don't think the Colts are going to trade that pick unless someone offered something ridiculous for that pick ... so it looks like RG3 is the #1 target, and with the Rams having the second pick and Bradford, I see them trading that pick ... and it better be to the Redskins, or we'll have missed a golden opportunity to really upgrade he offense significantly.

This league is about the QB nowadays. You cannot win with a mediocre QB. And there are two types .... you've got the pocket passers like Luck and the athletic movers like RG3 ... and both types can be successful.

And the more I've studied RG3 lately, the more I'm beginning to believe that he might just be as good as Luck, particularly with an o-line that still needs some help. A mobile QB like him can be almost like replacing two o-linemen due to his mobility. And I'm beginning to think that he actually might be the perfect pick for the Redskins.

Look what Vick brings to the Eagles .... and I tell you ... Vick wouldn't even be starting in the NFL now without his ability to run .... Vick was not NEARLY as good a passer in college as is RG3 ... nor was Vick very accurate while playing for Atlanta years ago, and had to rely on running. I think RG3 could be looked at as a hybrid of a running/passing QB who will be a much better and more complete QB than Michael Vick.

If this kid goes somewhere else because the Redskins chose to save draft picks, and he has a Cam Newton like rookie season (which is very possible) every decision maker in the Redskin front office should be fired for incompetence.

I couldn't agree more Ray.

I believe RGIII is the real deal... just keep in mind, there is likely to be a bidding war... and a fairly high price.

MS is known to be averse to paying too much... sooooo... keep fingers crossed... but don't hold your breath.