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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:44 pm
by skinsfan#33
Chris Luva Luva wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote:I doubt we are statically any worse with that regard than any other team.
I agree with u for the most part, except this. I think we're def on the bad end of that stick. We've been notorious for not growing/paying our own talent and overpaying for someone else.
You know I can't really argue with you because we are both guessing here. Neither of us have done any in depth research on this so we would be bickering about how our gut makes us feel on this subject and that is never a good spot to argue from especially considering how much emotions cloud judgement.
I do agree that we are more willing to over pay FA from another team. Clark and Pierce are perfect examples of players we wanted to keep, but put a lower price yah on them than we might have had they been a FA from another team.
However, most players that we draft and let go down the road just fade off into obscurity. Heck we have a bad habit of keeping guys too long if you ask me.
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:46 pm
by SkinsJock
different era but a lot of fun to watch - them's were the days
Riggos holdout and hairdos
Theisman wanting to return punts just to get some playing time
Taylor was V special - not too many like that today
they talk but they sure don't walk
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:25 pm
by DarthMonk
joebagadonuts wrote:Ryan Clark. I've always regretted that one.
+1
DarthMonk
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:57 pm
by tribeofjudah
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I tried to tell yall that Rodgers was good but....lol, I don't know why I wasted my breath.
Anyway, if contacts were the issue all along, Rodgers was at fault for not buying them.... #shrug
Correct and he should have got them many years ago ....like his 2nd yr with skins.
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:09 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
joebagadonuts wrote:Ryan Clark. I've always regretted that one.
He was mediocre. There was no way we should have matched what Pitt did, it was too much
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:03 pm
by Paralis
Clark's 2006 contract was 4 years, $7M, and it only took, what? $10M on Archuleta and the 6th overall pick to replace him. Far and away the worst move the Skins have made in the last 10 years.
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:34 pm
by welch
Should have kept Carlos Rogers, and probably should have kept Jason Campbell. Otherwise, the team dropped players who needed to be dropped.
I suspect that even Grossman and Beck would look pretty good with a good OL and some receivers, however.
If someone wants to argue that the Redskins should have continued to play the 4-3 defense, I won't argue. It's as traditional as George Allen and Diron Talbert; the 3-4 is the Giants.
OK, but that's different.
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:11 pm
by Red_One43
tribeofjudah wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:I tried to tell yall that Rodgers was good but....lol, I don't know why I wasted my breath.
Anyway, if contacts were the issue all along, Rodgers was at fault for not buying them.... #shrug
Correct and he should have got them many years ago ....like his 2nd yr with skins.
I listened to Phil Daniels on the radio today. He said that the Redskins tried to get him to get his eyes checked, but Carlos refused. Daniels said that the Niners made him get his eyes checked. He said that the Redskins should have made Carlos like the Niners did. Daniels said that Carlos refused because he didn't believe that his eyes were bad. That's Phil Daniels take on it.
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:20 pm
by Countertrey
Red_One43 wrote:tribeofjudah wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:I tried to tell yall that Rodgers was good but....lol, I don't know why I wasted my breath.
Anyway, if contacts were the issue all along, Rodgers was at fault for not buying them.... #shrug
Correct and he should have got them many years ago ....like his 2nd yr with skins.
I listened to Phil Daniels on the radio today. He said that the Redskins tried to get him to get his eyes checked, but Carlos refused. Daniels said that the Niners made him get his eyes checked. He said that the Redskins should have made Carlos like the Niners did. Daniels said that Carlos refused because he didn't believe that his eyes were bad. That's Phil Daniels take on it.
Rogers was a jerk... probably even worse now that he can catch.
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:52 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
Russ Penman wrote:cowboykillerzRED wrote:Russ Penman wrote:riggofan wrote:I'm glad Andre Carter is doing well, but I don't get the point. He was not good here last year and clearly didn't fit the 3-4 defense. You can't really say "we shouldn't have let him go".
Carlos Rodgers made no secret that he didn't want to be in Washington, so I don't get that point either.
The point is you don't fix what isn't broken, I don't call a 4th rated defense broken. But we have Mr. God Mike Shanahan who always had bad defenses in Denver come in and say hey...I am Head Coach\GM hear me roar! Let's blow up a 4th ranked defense, piss off our 100 million dollar player at that and go to a scheme that we have no players to play in, all while I'll let my imbecile of a son run the offense with no credible QB and a pourous at best line. And lastly the HOF QB that I traded for I will make him look like a fool too! Yippee aren't we great!!
Wow need a tissue? Are you dead serious right now or just still sour from the hangover of the L??
Our bend but break D was weak and cost us games every week 4th rated BLAH.. We needed to step it up in the sack pressure and TO departments to be competitive. With the right players and coaching this D will be faarrrr superior to the crap we had. Not to mention players that weren't in it for the team - your million dollar fluber who missed practice and napped on the field. We had a crap team that won a few games and our d was in no way better except maybe stopping the run.
I expect our current D with over half the starters in their fist year as a skin much less the system to get better and better. With JJ back next year and maybe a db through FA or draft we will be on our way to a fierce D. Leaving the rest of our picks and cap room to build the O.
Bottom line is we haven't been good for a long time and all the players we've LET GO...!!! Was probably because A. They are old B. They hate the skins and don't put forth full effort or C. They just flat out suck.
Some guys didn't work in the new systems and some just didn't work. I'm sorry but Zorn wasn't working we needed h real coach. And at that we needed to clean house coaches and players all alike. Not saying everything here is perfect but pushing the restart button is what we needed. New ideas a new plan and new people. Its gonna take time but if our O can catch up to our D w players and improvement we will be competitive. We only get so many picks and can't do it in one year..
I don't need a tissue, the points you make stink, we may have had a bend but not break D but this current D is a joke, it bends breaks and does whatever the other team's offense wants. Hell you want to look good play the Redskins and that joke of a DC Jim Haslett.
Where are our turnovers? Besides Beck and Grossman throwing picks? LOL! Where are our sacks? Orakpo 5.5 Kerrigan 5 and Carter has 9 so far and HE DOESN'T EVEN START! New idea's? Okay that one's a good one, bring Mr. Tan Man in blow up everything instead of gradually updating what already was working. Bend but don't break, it that like be on offense but don't score? What this inept offense does week in and week out, you can say what you want but this is year two, the roster has been overhauled to Shanahan's players. And what do we have but a another wasted year and moron's hollering stay the course, it will be different in another 4 years! Like the Republican's blaming Obama for the current economy knowing full well Bush F'd this country up long before Obama even thought about running. You can fool all of the people some of the time and you can fool some of the people some of the time, but Snyder, and Shanahan aren't fooling me NO MORE TIMES. It's miserable team's like this and the last 20 odd years that make it even worse, cause teams like San Francisco get 1 coach and they are good, watch year 3 and the DEADSKINS will still have apologists like you defending a already sinking ship. This Titanic has already hit the iceberg my friend, the question is with Snyder how many more icebergs will it hit until the masses no more keep padding Snyder's pockets, Snyder has done to the Redskins what he did to Six Flags, destroyed it..................
Funny how your Obama analogy (that I actually agree with) goes against everything you are saying..
Shanny is bama and inherited this Fd up franchise... He does everything possible to fix this trainwreck but the damage has been done. Its gonna take.... Patience. What the fudge is your argument?
Give the staff a chance... We were headed to 0-16 man we r lucky we got out of our crappy ways in time to escape the worst record possible. We are improving aswell as finding out we've been lacking depth for some 20 years at all positions.
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:45 am
by Russ Penman
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Russ Penman wrote:cowboykillerzRED wrote:Russ Penman wrote:riggofan wrote:I'm glad Andre Carter is doing well, but I don't get the point. He was not good here last year and clearly didn't fit the 3-4 defense. You can't really say "we shouldn't have let him go".
Carlos Rodgers made no secret that he didn't want to be in Washington, so I don't get that point either.
The point is you don't fix what isn't broken, I don't call a 4th rated defense broken. But we have Mr. God Mike Shanahan who always had bad defenses in Denver come in and say hey...I am Head Coach\GM hear me roar! Let's blow up a 4th ranked defense, piss off our 100 million dollar player at that and go to a scheme that we have no players to play in, all while I'll let my imbecile of a son run the offense with no credible QB and a pourous at best line. And lastly the HOF QB that I traded for I will make him look like a fool too! Yippee aren't we great!!
Wow need a tissue? Are you dead serious right now or just still sour from the hangover of the L??
Our bend but break D was weak and cost us games every week 4th rated BLAH.. We needed to step it up in the sack pressure and TO departments to be competitive. With the right players and coaching this D will be faarrrr superior to the crap we had. Not to mention players that weren't in it for the team - your million dollar fluber who missed practice and napped on the field. We had a crap team that won a few games and our d was in no way better except maybe stopping the run.
I expect our current D with over half the starters in their fist year as a skin much less the system to get better and better. With JJ back next year and maybe a db through FA or draft we will be on our way to a fierce D. Leaving the rest of our picks and cap room to build the O.
Bottom line is we haven't been good for a long time and all the players we've LET GO...!!! Was probably because A. They are old B. They hate the skins and don't put forth full effort or C. They just flat out suck.
Some guys didn't work in the new systems and some just didn't work. I'm sorry but Zorn wasn't working we needed h real coach. And at that we needed to clean house coaches and players all alike. Not saying everything here is perfect but pushing the restart button is what we needed. New ideas a new plan and new people. Its gonna take time but if our O can catch up to our D w players and improvement we will be competitive. We only get so many picks and can't do it in one year..
I don't need a tissue, the points you make stink, we may have had a bend but not break D but this current D is a joke, it bends breaks and does whatever the other team's offense wants. Hell you want to look good play the Redskins and that joke of a DC Jim Haslett.
Where are our turnovers? Besides Beck and Grossman throwing picks? LOL! Where are our sacks? Orakpo 5.5 Kerrigan 5 and Carter has 9 so far and HE DOESN'T EVEN START! New idea's? Okay that one's a good one, bring Mr. Tan Man in blow up everything instead of gradually updating what already was working. Bend but don't break, it that like be on offense but don't score? What this inept offense does week in and week out, you can say what you want but this is year two, the roster has been overhauled to Shanahan's players. And what do we have but a another wasted year and moron's hollering stay the course, it will be different in another 4 years! Like the Republican's blaming Obama for the current economy knowing full well Bush F'd this country up long before Obama even thought about running. You can fool all of the people some of the time and you can fool some of the people some of the time, but Snyder, and Shanahan aren't fooling me NO MORE TIMES. It's miserable team's like this and the last 20 odd years that make it even worse, cause teams like San Francisco get 1 coach and they are good, watch year 3 and the DEADSKINS will still have apologists like you defending a already sinking ship. This Titanic has already hit the iceberg my friend, the question is with Snyder how many more icebergs will it hit until the masses no more keep padding Snyder's pockets, Snyder has done to the Redskins what he did to Six Flags, destroyed it..................
Funny how your Obama analogy (that I actually agree with) goes against everything you are saying..
Shanny is bama and inherited this Fd up franchise... He does everything possible to fix this trainwreck but the damage has been done. Its gonna take.... Patience. What the fudge is your argument?
Give the staff a chance... We were headed to 0-16 man we r lucky we got out of our crappy ways in time to escape the worst record possible. We are improving aswell as finding out we've been lacking depth for some 20 years at all positions.
Sorry where are we any better? Since you seem unable to understand my logic or argument, here it is
1) Since switching to the 3-4 where are better?
2) Since trading for McNabb, getting Grossman and Beck where are we better at the QB position?
3) We are year 2 in a SuperBowl winning Head Coach and do we look any better than we did with Cerrato and Zorn? I actually think we look worse!
4) Defensive Guru Haslett blitzes veteran's like Romo but doesn't blitz a rookie like Cam Newton, where last week another team did and they yeilded 5 sacks on Newton, where against us he looked like a sure Pro Bowl QB.
5) How about Mr. Muscles Landry looking like the Hulk but hasn't hit no one since the Dallas game but he damn sure can flex and look cure for the camera's though huh?
I have given last year and 1/2 of this year to the staff and what has it yielded a 3-4 that can't stop the run, last sunday was unable to stop 3rd downs. An offense that can't score, a Head Coach that can't be man enough to admit he F'd up the QB position, but hey maybe it wasn't him, maybe since he wants his son to get experience maybe McNabb, Grossman and Beck were ALL Kyle's calls and Daddy Shanahan is simply protecting and covering up for his little minion. Yeah my arguments make about as much sense as a Mike Shanahan Press Conference!
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:03 am
by Skinsfan55
It's pretty obvious the Redskins would be better off in the 4-3, with Carlos instead of Josh Wilson and Jason Campbell at QB instead of Rexy or Bexy. It's not even worth talking about. Shanahan made some huge mistakes in Washington. Trying to change McNabb, alienating Haynesworth, switching to the 3-4... let's face it, really hardly anything has gone right since he got here.
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:04 am
by SkinsJock
Red_One43 wrote:... I listened to Phil Daniels on the radio today. He said that the Redskins tried to get him to get his eyes checked, but Carlos refused. Daniels said that the Niners made Rogers get his eyes checked....
Daniels said that Carlos refused because he didn't believe that his eyes were bad.
That's Phil Daniels take on it.
I didn't know that Daniels was medically qualified
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:10 am
by Skinsfan55
What does Daniels qualifications have to do with anything. He's not dispensing any type of medical advice or knowledge. He's simply stating conversations he had at Redskins Park.
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:17 am
by SkinsJock
seems like a lot of fans here should do like Rogers did and have their eyesight checked
anyone that thinks this franchise is in worse shape than it was during the Zorn tenure here is obviously not seeing very well
ANOTHER THING - Statistics show that we had a top ranked defense
unfortunately those top ranked defenses were ONLY statistically good
a "statistically good defense" is ONLY 'good' if you're into fantasy football
we have a number of young players here that will help this franchise
we have a few OBVIOUS needs - we are not far off
No offense or defense is any good if you don't have the right personnel - it's not the scheme
GET WITH IT - we have been managed badly - it will take time to fix that
GET OVER THE HIGH EXPECTATIONS and look at the positives
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:25 am
by SkinsJock
Skinsfan55 wrote:What does Daniels qualifications have to do with anything. He's not dispensing any type of medical advice or knowledge. He's simply stating conversations he had at Redskins Park.
He said, she said - woulda, coulda, shoulda - who cares
STFU and just do your job - do NOT talk with the press, it will be distorted
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:52 am
by StorminMormon86
I do not see what others saw in Jason Campbell. He was not a franchise quarterback, more of a decent game manager along the lines of Joe Flacco.
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:31 am
by frankcal20
StorminMormon86 wrote:I do not see what others saw in Jason Campbell. He was not a franchise quarterback, more of a decent game manager along the lines of Joe Flacco.
That's exactly what a lot of us saw in him. And the JC Haters said that we needed someone else. When we got McNabb, it was going to be the best ever. All the while I was pissed b/c the problem at the time wasn't the players themselves. It was the front office. At the time that JC was our QB, we did a oline that was falling a part. We seemed to have a new coach or coordinator each week.
But he was the sole reason we lost and on top of all that, he wasn't a franchise QB. Those guys are walking around everywhere. Why can't we get one?
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:21 pm
by emoses14
Skinsfan55 wrote:It's pretty obvious the Redskins would be better off in the 4-3, with Carlos instead of Josh Wilson and Jason Campbell at QB instead of Rexy or Bexy. It's not even worth talking about. Shanahan made some huge mistakes in Washington. Trying to change McNabb, alienating Haynesworth, switching to the 3-4... let's face it, really hardly anything has gone right since he got here.
Agreed on Rogers. But how do you keep someone who simply doesn't want to be here; way overpay him? Then you'd (general, not specific) be bitching about how Snyder always overpays players. Plus, if this whole eyesight thing is true, honestly what does that say about his attitude? Its hard to fault a team for standing firm on a malcontent who wants to leave. If he gets his head straight later, great for him, still better of w/out him, probably.
As for Haynesworth, I gotta believe you're just extremely frustrated with seeing former skins playing WAY F-ING BETTER in other places than they did here and spat his name out without thinking. Haynesworth alienated himself, then turned around and did the same damn thing in New England. Mike was wrong on McNabb (and I mean on bringing him in, not on changing his crappy mechanics), had no choice on Carlos, BUT WAS 100% right with Albert, who is worthless. I also 100% agree on Campbell, but there's like 3 of us on this board that think that. The rest are under the impression that Wrecks or Beck is an upgrade over Jason.
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:38 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
I appreciate the whiners and moaners creating your own identified thread for your whining and moaning so you don't screw up every other thread with this like you usually do.
Well done.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:17 am
by cowboykillerzRGiii
Ill second that..
JC is the only guy I kinda wish we kept out of fat boy blind douche and Carter. Glad for Carter but we didn't need him any more and JC was doing good for Oak town- look where that got him. I do hope he recovers but bottom line is we needed better players at all of their positions... So it is as it should be they aren't here . Jcam would be a pricey back up I think
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:55 am
by SkinsJock
THIS IS A TEAM GAME
Hypothesizing that we would be better off having kept players is pure speculation
many would have continued to play the same and NOT contributed like they always did
despite the fact that we do not have a QB - we're STILL better off not having Campbell
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:22 am
by Russ Penman
SkinsJock wrote:THIS IS A TEAM GAME
Hypothesizing that we would be better off having kept players is pure speculation
many would have continued to play the same and NOT contributed like they always did
despite the fact that we do not have a QB - we're STILL better off not having Campbell
Okay so you think that Grossman and Beck is a upgrade over Campbell? Somehow I am not buying that one, hell we all know Campbell couldn't read defenses but he sure didn't throw picks and was alot more mobile than both Grossman and Beck put together. I am not saying he would have been Brady, or Bree's but damn he sure would have not thrown multiple interceptions in several games and I damn sure think with him we beat the Eagles, Panthers and Dolphins.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:32 am
by StorminMormon86
I have to admit I was a little disappointed we got rid of Andre Carter, but in the long run it made sense because he doesn't fit into the 3-4 scheme.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:57 am
by Russ Penman
StorminMormon86 wrote:I have to admit I was a little disappointed we got rid of Andre Carter, but in the long run it made sense because he doesn't fit into the 3-4 scheme.
Well had we not switched he could have been playing DE and Kerrigan could have still been drafted to play outside linebacker.