The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Russ Penman wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:A. Shannahan has turned around our entire character and culture.

Surely your drunk or high to even type this right? The only person that "get's" it was and is London Fletcher. The rest of this team, and coaching staff laugh all the way to the bank. This isn't the Washington Redskins, this is Club Snyder.

Not too sure about that friend. These guys that are here aren't making the kinds of money that Danny use to throw around previously. I also think Fox came in and played one heck of a game when McIntosh was shookup. Landry is still hustling and this year he hasn't been getting burned like he used too.

Pretty much we can pull out alot of negatives but let's also pull out the positives, though obviously its not much but there's still some there.

langleyparkjoe wrote:Who voted "A"? Seriously.

The perpetrator admitted it a couple posts up from your question.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Who voted "A"? Seriously.

The perpetrator admitted it a couple posts up from your question.

Hmmmm... I think based on your explanation combined with how we play, I think I'd go with a "B" Kazo. If at this point we only lost 1 or 2 games than I'd say "A" given your explanation for your answer.

Keeping everything into account and the fact its only his second year as our coach I gave them a "C" right now. It's cloudy though because you can't coach how they perform on Sundays (drop passes, tip passes, missed assignment, etc.).

langleyparkjoe wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Who voted "A"? Seriously.

The perpetrator admitted it a couple posts up from your question.

Hmmmm... I think based on your explanation combined with how we play, I think I'd go with a "B" Kazo. If at this point we only lost 1 or 2 games than I'd say "A" given your explanation for your answer.

Keeping everything into account and the fact its only his second year as our coach I gave them a "C" right now. It's cloudy though because you can't coach how they perform on Sundays (drop passes, tip passes, missed assignment, etc.).

I say "A" because my career has been in management and management consulting and I know how hard it is to turn around a culture. Every time I went into a disaster I was told as I went in that everyone knew it wasn't my fault and didn't blame me for it, then I spent the next however many months being blamed for everything as I fixed it. It always worked out in the end. Unfortunately I had it better then Redskin HC's. They aren't blame when they come in, but the next week they are blamed as if they'd caused it and unlike me that blame doesn't go away eventually as they make things better.

I think there is a clear culture change and players are buying into Shannahan. In his second year he started 3-1 and people got ahead of themselves. That despite a QB who sucks, a better but shaky o-line and a thin receiving corps. I don't buy into that it's deep. Lots of mediocre receivers isn't "deep."

I don't see the issue. We are better, we were wiped out by injuries. We still have a long way to go. We haven't fixed QB and that's the hardest position to fix. There is no new news. The bottom line is that with what he started with and the short time he's been here and things outside his control based on HIS performance he's done everything he can possibly do.

If I hadn't stuck to recognizing what I did and didn't control I would have let people get to me and failed. By refusing to accept that things were my fault that weren't and staying positive about what I was doing, I always did it. I was well paid, not complaining. But I'm measuring him as I wanted to be measured, by MY performance. And his has been excellent. I stand by the "A"

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

vwoodzpusha wrote:It takes time. This team has been so mismanaged and screwed up it is going to take a lot longer than 2 years to right the ship. The defense is a major improvement, and is shut down corner away from being great.

Our defense can't stop the run and we are a corner away from being great?

I vote 'B'. Zorn inherited a decent set of players. Not great, but not as bad as the bunch he left. Defense had players who fit the 4-3.

Shanahan blundered with Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers, but if you had taken a vote here, then both would have been cut in training camp...almost.

Good moves to work on the OL. Hard to turn a 4-3 including Haynesworth into a 3-4 defense, so still a distance to go.

RB will improve when the OL is set.

Receivers? Ouch. Biggest improvement, maybe, is cutting The Big Two 2nd Rounders, who never seemed to learn how to play in the NFL.

Gibbs did more in '04 and '05 than Shanahan has in the first two seasons, but there is a reason why Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls and is in the Hall of Fame.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:A. Shannahan has turned around our entire character and culture.

I'll agree with that, but the vote is on his record to date. While the future may hold better things to come, based on that criteria, I still vote D at this point.

SCSkinsFan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:A. Shannahan has turned around our entire character and culture.

I'll agree with that, but the vote is on his record to date

That's not what it says, it says it's about grading him for "rebuilding" the Redskins. That's why I went to character and culture and what a difference he's made. It's a cornerstone for rebuilding.

I gave Shanny a D mainly because of totally screwing it up at the QB position . The Mcnabb deal was horrendous. Going into this season with Grossman and Beck . I just hope he gets it right next year.

The skins haven't had a real QB in forever.

Incomplete... he gets up to 2 more years to get a grade.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SCSkinsFan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:A. Shannahan has turned around our entire character and culture.

I'll agree with that, but the vote is on his record to date

That's not what it says, it says it's about grading him for "rebuilding" the Redskins. That's why I went to character and culture and what a difference he's made. It's a cornerstone for rebuilding.

+1... too many don't get that... (but, I would like to see him put a shorter leash on Kyle)

Countertrey wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SCSkinsFan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:A. Shannahan has turned around our entire character and culture.

I'll agree with that, but the vote is on his record to date

That's not what it says, it says it's about grading him for "rebuilding" the Redskins. That's why I went to character and culture and what a difference he's made. It's a cornerstone for rebuilding.

+1... too many don't get that... (but, I would like to see him put a shorter leash on Kyle)

Yep, too many forget what Joe Gibbs was all about. It starts with character. Now if we're no better two years from now then I'll be disappointed. But starting his second year 3-1 and then being wiped out by injuries? Yeah, 0-3 hurts, but it's not his fault.

skinpride1 wrote:I gave Shanny a D mainly because of totally screwing it up at the QB position . The Mcnabb deal was horrendous. Going into this season with Grossman and Beck . I just hope he gets it right next year.

The skins haven't had a real QB in forever.

We had no QB when he came and we have no QB, how is that "screwing up" the position? Everyone knows we need a QB, but they are actually remarkably difficult to come by. Just saying you want one and he didn't do it by his second year isn't much of an argument.

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

thats my point we go with rex grossman and john beck look how that has turned out

redskinz4ever wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

thats my point we go with rex grossman and john beck look how that has turned out

Right, we had any pick choices of Brady, Brees, Grossman or Beck and we went with Grossman and Beck. Darn you Mike Shannahan...

redskinz4ever wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

thats my point we go with rex grossman and john beck look how that has turned out

Last years Defense was the worst I have ever seen from this team. We made a change and we fixed many problems even though we still have holes.

If we just fixed the offense some, we would still be a terrible defense. I still say we should have never gone to a 34 but we did.

The Shans need 5 years at least.

Last year there was a poll that asked how long will it take? I said 7 years and people thought no it will take 2 or 3. Reality is what it is.

We are better but it wont show for a while.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:I gave Shanny a D mainly because of totally screwing it up at the QB position . The Mcnabb deal was horrendous. Going into this season with Grossman and Beck . I just hope he gets it right next year.

The skins haven't had a real QB in forever.

We had no QB when he came and we have no QB, how is that "screwing up" the position? Everyone knows we need a QB, but they are actually remarkably difficult to come by. Just saying you want one and he didn't do it by his second year isn't much of an argument.

Whatever nothing but excuses . While teams like Bills,Carolina,Saints,Green bay,Eagles, just to name a few.. all have them.

Mike is suppose to be a QB GURU you think he could have come up with better than Mcnabb,grossman,beck. Andy Ried knew Mcnabb was washed up and Mike got fleeced big time ...Yea that deserves an "A".

Just saying we better find one soon or that two years is going to turn into year Three,Four,Five ....Fail.

I do think we will draft qb this year and probably keep adding on o-line.

Good luck on the Skins getting that guy for QB we need him badly.

skinpride1 wrote:Whatever nothing but excuses

And yet you offer no solutions. Give you a starting QB and give it to you now is a remarkably useless demand. It takes time and we had two years and have to turn over pretty much most of the team on both sides of the ball. Anyone not giving you your I want it now demand is making "excuses." Right.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

thats my point we go with rex grossman and john beck look how that has turned out

Right, we had any pick choices of Brady, Brees, Grossman or Beck and we went with Grossman and Beck. Darn you Mike Shannahan...

he said ROOKIES !!!!! GEEESH

skinpride1 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:I gave Shanny a D mainly because of totally screwing it up at the QB position . The Mcnabb deal was horrendous. Going into this season with Grossman and Beck . I just hope he gets it right next year.

The skins haven't had a real QB in forever.

We had no QB when he came and we have no QB, how is that "screwing up" the position? Everyone knows we need a QB, but they are actually remarkably difficult to come by. Just saying you want one and he didn't do it by his second year isn't much of an argument.

Whatever nothing but excuses . While teams like Bills,Carolina,Saints,Green bay,Eagles, just to name a few.. all have them.

Mike is suppose to be a QB GURU you think he could have come up with better than Mcnabb,grossman,beck. Andy Ried knew Mcnabb was washed up and Mike got fleeced big time ...Yea that deserves an "A".

Just saying we better find one soon or that two years is going to turn into year Three,Four,Five ....Fail.

I do think we will draft qb this year and probably keep adding on o-line.

Good luck on the Skins getting that guy for QB we need him badly.

In last year's draft, I think the only quarterback that they thought was within reach, and that they had any interest in, was Jake Locker. That got blown up when the Titans traded up to pick him. Shan had no interest in anyone else in the draft at the place where they were available... so they pulled the trigger to add picks and bolster multiple other positions... I have no problem on them not being willing to "settle" for a quarterback that they didn't really want.

redskinz4ever wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

thats my point we go with rex grossman and john beck look how that has turned out

Right, we had any pick choices of Brady, Brees, Grossman or Beck and we went with Grossman and Beck. Darn you Mike Shannahan...

he said ROOKIES !!!!! GEEESH

And who exactly were you advocating?

I personally didn't like the ones who fell to us, I'm glad we traded down and still got Kerrigan. We have a lot of weaknesses besides QB and if we stretch for a QB we end up with neither a QB nor any other hole filled. So be specific, who was he supposed to take exactly?

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

thats my point we go with rex grossman and john beck look how that has turned out

Right, we had any pick choices of Brady, Brees, Grossman or Beck and we went with Grossman and Beck. Darn you Mike Shannahan...

he said ROOKIES !!!!! GEEESH

And who exactly were you advocating?

I personally didn't like the ones who fell to us, I'm glad we traded down and still got Kerrigan. We have a lot of weaknesses besides QB and if we stretch for a QB we end up with neither a QB nor any other hole filled. So be specific, who was he supposed to take exactly?

first off cam newton was there for the taking the panthers wanted to trade out of there #1 pick
i liked ponder also for a starter.
yes kerrigan is a good pick no argument there ....just saying there were qbs for the taking which are better than what we have now

redskinz4ever wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:he gets a D
starting with the draft no QB
our offensive line just sucks even before the injuries it wasnt getting the job done.
not really on the D too much our offense clearly is the reason this team is quickly falling apart.no WR s doesn't help either put simply they are bad.
so who are we looking at in the upcoming NFL DRAFT ???

There are 3 or 4 rook qbs playing in the league right now: they are all pretty good to pretty great....!!!

thats my point we go with rex grossman and john beck look how that has turned out

Right, we had any pick choices of Brady, Brees, Grossman or Beck and we went with Grossman and Beck. Darn you Mike Shannahan...

he said ROOKIES !!!!! GEEESH

And who exactly were you advocating?

I personally didn't like the ones who fell to us, I'm glad we traded down and still got Kerrigan. We have a lot of weaknesses besides QB and if we stretch for a QB we end up with neither a QB nor any other hole filled. So be specific, who was he supposed to take exactly?

first off cam newton was there for the taking the panthers wanted to trade out of there #1 pick
i liked ponder also for a starter.
yes kerrigan is a good pick no argument there ....just saying there were qbs for the taking which are better than what we have now

Lets say we did take Cam.... Our defense was terrible. We needed help there if we were going to a 34. So, we would have had a QB but we would still be really bad on D.

It is going to take a really long time my friend.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:Whatever nothing but excuses

And yet you offer no solutions. Give you a starting QB and give it to you now is a remarkably useless demand. It takes time and we had two years and have to turn over pretty much most of the team on both sides of the ball. Anyone not giving you your I want it now demand is making "excuses." Right.

Offer solutions??? Sorry that is suppose to be Mike's job that he is getting paid Millions for and what the Skins have a scouting department for.

I never said that I wanted it now your making sh$% up but I do want it in the 2012 draft, However.

Stop getting off the topic which in this thread is rating what Mike has done up to now and It's a "D" and others must feel that way to. Look at the Poll.

Not saying he can't turn it around next year but it is what it is 9 -13 and big part of is from QB Play ...from Mcnabb throwing in the ground on short routes to Grossman the turnover machine we have stunk it up at the QB position now make a excuse up for that one.