The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Doode ey told coach get Davis the ball more bom big game for Davis. He has been working a full/ hybrid back.
He didn't like loosing but the flaws of years past are still needing to be rectified. Find ways to loose one of them, as a team not individually. I'd be pist if we got rid of ey

ey is a Redskin and he's playing here for the rest of this season

this franchise is going through a lot of changes both on the field and mentally


let's all just enjoy the process - it will not take very long at all

chiefhog44 wrote: It's a losing mentality that has to stop. So yeah, this game is no big deal in a long term view of things, but the sooner we rid ourselves of this "here we go again" attitude, the better.

In other words, you agree with my original post.

Irn-Bru wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote: It's a losing mentality that has to stop. So yeah, this game is no big deal in a long term view of things, but the sooner we rid ourselves of this "here we go again" attitude, the better.

In other words, you agree with my original post.

No not really. I think this is a must win for the franchise to take the next step NOW. We're ready. This franchise needs to take that next step now and reinforse all the positive steps taken so far. This would be a very bad loss IMO to our phyche. Will this loss matter in 10 years, no

winning this game by 10 or more points will begin to erase tha same ol skins thoughts we all fear will show its ugly head sunday.its hard to get pass 10 years plus of laying duds when we should beat a team such as the rams.clearly we have begun to change but proof of this needs to be shown on the football field on sunday.

redskinz4ever wrote:winning this game by 10 or more points will begin to erase tha same ol skins thoughts we all fear will show its ugly head sunday.its hard to get pass 10 years plus of laying duds when we should beat a team such as the rams.clearly we have begun to change but proof of this needs to be shown on the football field on sunday.

+1

redskinz4ever wrote:im talking at least 10 points and be in control .....dont let the rams hang around

That's exactly what's wrong with this team. The only team they really put away was the Giants. They let the Cards hang around and almost lost that one, and then let a very disorganize Dallas team hang around in a game the Skins should've put away by the 3rd qtr, and they ended up losing that one. When a team gets out in front of an opponent, you've got to finish them....

chiefhog44 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote: It's a losing mentality that has to stop. So yeah, this game is no big deal in a long term view of things, but the sooner we rid ourselves of this "here we go again" attitude, the better.

In other words, you agree with my original post.

No not really.

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't see this as a must win.

chiefhog44 wrote:I kindly disagree with this.

Irn-Bru wrote:I see this week as an important — but not life-or-death — step in a process that began two years ago with the firing of Vinny and the beginning of the Shanaplan. It's not that we've had one mentality and this will be the week that determines whether or not we get rid of it.

chiefhog44 wrote:It's a losing mentality that has to stop. So yeah, this game is no big deal in a long term view of things, but the sooner we rid ourselves of this "here we go again" attitude, the better. I agree with you that it's a long-term process.

So far so good. I of course agree with everything above, but then . . .

I think this is a must win for the franchise to take the next step NOW.

You tell me who's got the confused argument.

Well, either your argument is confused or you think I'm saying something I never was. Either way, you contradict yourself up above, or you are equivocating on what "must win" means.

Or maybe you're just making the narrow point that if we want to beat the losing mentality, then we need to beat the losing mentality this week. OK. Nothing wrong with saying that — though it's pretty trivial — but even then I don't see the point in throwing around the term "must win."

grampi wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:im talking at least 10 points and be in control .....dont let the rams hang around

That's exactly what's wrong with this team. The only team they really put away was the Giants. They let the Cards hang around and almost lost that one, and then let a very disorganized Dallas team hang around in a game the Skins should've put away by the 3rd qtr, and they ended up losing that one. When a team gets out in front of an opponent, you've got to finish them....

You do understand that we're not a very sound football team at this time, right?
we're going to lose some games we should win

We have a defense that has made big steps since last season's mess

We have an offense that has not made much progress - the QB position is a MAJOR concern - the O line has improved some - the backs and receivers are not being helped by the QB OR Kyle's play calling

we are a work in progress and we are improving

we are NOT a franchise that is going to 'dominate' or be able to do what we want offensively or defensively .... yet

enjoy the improving 'looks' from both players and coaches

we ARE getting there

redskinz4ever wrote:this game is HUGE !!!!!! not just so we will be 3 & 1 it is huge for this organization as a whole.this team must prove that we are NOT the same ol skins,we need this game to be a statement game ..... we play a team that is struggling we need to put this team DOWN.
this team needs to prove it is no longer a team that lays eggs against teams that we are better than.
get a running game going keep rex to a simple game plan and excute it.our defense will do its job so the offense needs to put some points on the scoreboard.3 - 1 sounds really good

I agree winning and going 3-1 would be a huge step to 8-8, which would be a big step in the right direction. But to me "must win" means losing is devastating and I don't see how losing and being 2-2 would be devastating.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:this game is HUGE !!!!!! not just so we will be 3 & 1 it is huge for this organization as a whole.this team must prove that we are NOT the same ol skins,we need this game to be a statement game ..... we play a team that is struggling we need to put this team DOWN.
this team needs to prove it is no longer a team that lays eggs against teams that we are better than.
get a running game going keep rex to a simple game plan and excute it.our defense will do its job so the offense needs to put some points on the scoreboard.3 - 1 sounds really good

I agree winning and going 3-1 would be a huge step to 8-8, which would be a big step in the right direction. But to me "must win" means losing is devastating and I don't see how losing and being 2-2 would be devastating.

So the team's goal is 8-8? I thought it was every team's goal to win the Superbowl EVERY YEAR?

grampi wrote:So the team's goal is 8-8? I thought it was every team's goal to win the Superbowl EVERY YEAR?

I'm with you

grampi wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I agree winning and going 3-1 would be a huge step to 8-8, which would be a big step in the right direction. But to me "must win" means losing is devastating and I don't see how losing and being 2-2 would be devastating.

So the team's goal is 8-8? I thought it was every team's goal to win the Superbowl EVERY YEAR?

Realistically, it's not. Maybe you should come back in 2-3 years.

Irn-Bru wrote:

grampi wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I agree winning and going 3-1 would be a huge step to 8-8, which would be a big step in the right direction. But to me "must win" means losing is devastating and I don't see how losing and being 2-2 would be devastating.

So the team's goal is 8-8? I thought it was every team's goal to win the Superbowl EVERY YEAR?

Realistically, it's not. Maybe you should come back in 2-3 years.

Oh, I'm sure I'll still be here....

That's good.

Try not to act so surprised that we aren't SB contenders in the meantime.

Irn-Bru wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote: It's a losing mentality that has to stop. So yeah, this game is no big deal in a long term view of things, but the sooner we rid ourselves of this "here we go again" attitude, the better.

In other words, you agree with my original post.

No not really.

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't see this as a must win.

chiefhog44 wrote:I kindly disagree with this.

Irn-Bru wrote:I see this week as an important — but not life-or-death — step in a process that began two years ago with the firing of Vinny and the beginning of the Shanaplan. It's not that we've had one mentality and this will be the week that determines whether or not we get rid of it.

chiefhog44 wrote:It's a losing mentality that has to stop. So yeah, this game is no big deal in a long term view of things, but the sooner we rid ourselves of this "here we go again" attitude, the better. I agree with you that it's a long-term process.

So far so good. I of course agree with everything above, but then . . .

I think this is a must win for the franchise to take the next step NOW.

You tell me who's got the confused argument.

Well, either your argument is confused or you think I'm saying something I never was. Either way, you contradict yourself up above, or you are equivocating on what "must win" means.

Or maybe you're just making the narrow point that if we want to beat the losing mentality, then we need to beat the losing mentality this week. OK. Nothing wrong with saying that — though it's pretty trivial — but even then I don't see the point in throwing around the term "must win."

First off, don't cut up my argument. Thanks. I think you damn well know what I'm talking about from the rest of my post, and if you read it, you would have understood that I didn't say a must win game in the sense that we can't get into the playoffs if we don't win this weekend...because we can. I feel like this is a must win for the franchise to take the next step in ridding us of this losing mentality and to build a championship team in three years. I think the timing is right that if we win this game, coming off a tough loss, that it will set up our team to continue to build this foundation. Trivial or not, so be it. I think the timing is right that with all the other things we need to learn to do as a franchise, it would give us a great opportunity to be VERY successful next year. If we lose, we have to wait until the next devastating loss to bounce back. It's part of a learning process. These important steps I would consider franchise musts, not must wins for semi successful seasons...which you describe in an earlier post as having 2-3 of these per year.

Secondly, why don't you define what you mean by long term. That would be helpful. It's a pretty vague statement. I agree that this games means nothing 7-10 years from now. That's what I was agreeing about, because in ten years, we won't remember this game. Sorry, but I totally disagree with you if you are a young whippersnapper and feel like long term is later this year. I think this is a must win FRANCHISE game, a game that's important to the development of our franchise. A game that will go a long way to securing next years success. I can't figure out how else to say it, so if you want to sit here and argue, or bang your head against the wall, or call my statement trivial just to make yourself feel better about someone disagreeing with you, then fine. I'm done. Have the last word, but ultimately, I know you agree with me.

chiefhog44 wrote:First off, don't cut up my argument. Thanks.

I respond to what's relevant, and I try not to clutter up the board with my responses. If you think I'm misrepresenting you on a particular point, then please point out what you think was put out of context. It's not intentional on my part.

I think you damn well know what I'm talking about from the rest of my post, and if you read it, you would have understood that I didn't say a must win game in the sense that we can't get into the playoffs if we don't win this weekend...because we can.

I never talked about playoffs with you. The only post where I mentioned the playoffs was responding to the OP. Between you and me the whole discussion has been about the team mentality.

Perhaps I deserve a little more credit here for having read your argument. I quoted and acknowledged your points about how this is important for the team mentality.

I feel like this is a must win for the franchise to take the next step in ridding us of this losing mentality and to build a championship team in three years. I think the timing is right that if we win this game, coming off a tough loss, that it will set up our team to continue to build this foundation.

All well and good . . . but this alone not what makes something a must-win.

What makes something "must-win" is when it's do or die. I've never disputed that this is a great chance to continue building our foundation — actually, if you read my posts again you'll see I explicitly affirm this.

Secondly, why don't you define what you mean by long term.

I use the term in the context of a single coach and a single "team," where that signifies a particular group of players (centered around a core group) that as a team will have the chance to accomplish something. Realistically speaking, anywhere between 2-5 seasons.

By my count I only used "long-term" once, and it was after I had said this: "I see this week as an important — but not life-or-death — step in a process that began two years ago with the firing of Vinny and the beginning of the Shanaplan." So what I have in mind for "long-term" concerns Shanahan and what he'll be able to do here. That could be 10 years, though in today's NFL and especially with Snyder I'd give better odds to something more like 2-5 years.

I think this is a must win FRANCHISE game, a game that's important to the development of our franchise. A game that will go a long way to securing next years success. I can't figure out how else to say it, so if you want to sit here and argue, or bang your head against the wall, or call my statement trivial just to make yourself feel better about someone disagreeing with you, then fine.

(1) I didn't hypothesize that you were making a trivial point to "make myself feel better about someone disagreeing with me." I've been an active participant on this board for going on 7 years now, so I'm rather used to disagreement and working out ideas through conversation.

Saying your point is "trivial" isn't a personal attack or being dismissive. I'm making a counterargument that you're free to rebut: namely, that your argument didn't accomplish what you thought it did, so what you were concluding wasn't warranted.

(A dismissive response would be something more like saying "You're just saying that to make yourself feel better that someone disagrees with you" — i.e., an irrelevant attempt at psychologizing rather than taking arguments head on. Not that you or I would ever condescend to those kind of tactics. )

(2) What makes something a "must win," in my view, is when by losing the team will lose something very important that it can't get back. I've said too many times now that this game is important for changing the mentality and setting the foundation for next year. What I don't see is how this is our one chance to get it right this year or set it up for next year.

Is it crucial in that way? No. And why am I confident in saying that? Because there have actually been Redskins teams in the recent past overcame losing these kind of "bounce back" games to still have success, and a changed mentality.

This game like ALL games, is important

we are not going 14-2 .... trust me on this


the players and coaches are going to be giving their best to try and win
IF that happens and we do not win there is no way that we are looking at a bad season

how is this a "must win" if we really do not have to win it?

just asking





this is kind of funny

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:this game is HUGE !!!!!! not just so we will be 3 & 1 it is huge for this organization as a whole.this team must prove that we are NOT the same ol skins,we need this game to be a statement game ..... we play a team that is struggling we need to put this team DOWN.
this team needs to prove it is no longer a team that lays eggs against teams that we are better than.
get a running game going keep rex to a simple game plan and excute it.our defense will do its job so the offense needs to put some points on the scoreboard.3 - 1 sounds really good

I agree winning and going 3-1 would be a huge step to 8-8, which would be a big step in the right direction. But to me "must win" means losing is devastating and I don't see how losing and being 2-2 would be devastating.

a must win in the sense of finally being able to beat a team or teams that we should beat ...... and 2-2 with philly out of the bye just feel like a bit of cushion would be a good thing

SkinsJock wrote:how is this a "must win" if we really do not have to win it?

just asking



this is kind of funny

It is. I thought I was making a fairly noncontroversial statement in my first post, but this has ballooned much farther than I thought it would.

I guess it wouldn't be The Internet if we all agreed.

Let's just go out and win this game...

grampi wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:this game is HUGE !!!!!! not just so we will be 3 & 1 it is huge for this organization as a whole.this team must prove that we are NOT the same ol skins,we need this game to be a statement game ..... we play a team that is struggling we need to put this team DOWN.
this team needs to prove it is no longer a team that lays eggs against teams that we are better than.
get a running game going keep rex to a simple game plan and excute it.our defense will do its job so the offense needs to put some points on the scoreboard.3 - 1 sounds really good

I agree winning and going 3-1 would be a huge step to 8-8, which would be a big step in the right direction. But to me "must win" means losing is devastating and I don't see how losing and being 2-2 would be devastating.

So the team's goal is 8-8? I thought it was every team's goal to win the Superbowl EVERY YEAR?

If you say so

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

grampi wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:this game is HUGE !!!!!! not just so we will be 3 & 1 it is huge for this organization as a whole.this team must prove that we are NOT the same ol skins,we need this game to be a statement game ..... we play a team that is struggling we need to put this team DOWN.
this team needs to prove it is no longer a team that lays eggs against teams that we are better than.
get a running game going keep rex to a simple game plan and excute it.our defense will do its job so the offense needs to put some points on the scoreboard.3 - 1 sounds really good

I agree winning and going 3-1 would be a huge step to 8-8, which would be a big step in the right direction. But to me "must win" means losing is devastating and I don't see how losing and being 2-2 would be devastating.

So the team's goal is 8-8? I thought it was every team's goal to win the Superbowl EVERY YEAR?

If you say so

I think Kaz was thinking more along the lines of realistic goals. Superbowls are the goal every year of course, but realistically 8-8 would be a huge step in the right direction.

ATX_Skins wrote:realistically 8-8 would be a huge step in the right direction.

No, it wouldn't. Why does everyone keep saying that? 8-8 would be a fairly small step in the right direction; we finished 6-10 last year. Now, a division title, that would be a huge step.

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:realistically 8-8 would be a huge step in the right direction.

No, it wouldn't. Why does everyone keep saying that? 8-8 would be a fairly small step in the right direction; we finished 6-10 last year. Now, a division title, that would be a huge step.

#1: Personally I've set 8-8 as a minimum. I won't be disappointed. But thrilled? Not that either. But I'm going to keep talking 8-8 until we have reason to think beyond that is more likely then I can say it is yet.

#2: It's not just record. Our O has been horrible and we revamped our D, so if they both show solid improvement then I'd be happy for this year pretty regardless of the record. I think our D is showing solid improvement. Our O has shown some improvement. But our D has to keep getting more consistent and our O still just needs to play better. But we're headed the right direction and not just because we're 3-1.