The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I too don't think he's "lost a step" but he doesn't drop a gear out the gates to run right into a massive defender to get crushed. Who would he looks for an opportunity to hit a hole and smash the skinny pedal not smash the skinny petal into no hole thatd = certain breakage

I hope everyone who was defending Banks will look at this thread again and see what I was getting at.

He's fumbling, and getting tripped up too easily today and it's driving me nuts.

ATX_Skins wrote:I hope everyone who was defending Banks will look at this thread again and see what I was getting at.

He's fumbling, and getting tripped up too easily today and it's driving me nuts.

He's only as good as his blocking. Fumbles are on here.

This is an observation and not researched. Teams are no longer kicking the ball line drive to the back of the end zone for Banks. Most of the kicks have great hang time and are dropping at the goal line to one corner of the end zone.

The blocking is clearly atrocious lately on ppunt and KO returns.

ATX_Skins wrote:I hope everyone who was defending Banks will look at this thread again and see what I was getting at.

He's fumbling, and getting tripped up too easily today and it's driving me nuts.

ATX - You have short memory! You forget that Banks had big punt returns in both the Giants and Cardinal games. Those two games right there make your point senseless (I am not sure what it is) Teams do game plan for Banks. The Skins would be wise to put more emphasis on blocking for this field position gem.

Now, to the one point that is valid that you bring up - yes, he was shaky with the football today and let the ball hit the turf and roll all the way to the end zone and nearly get it stopped on the goal line. Banks has been told by Shanny, if he doesn't protect the football, he won't play. So far, he hasn't fumbled.

Banks getting tripped up is driving you nuts? - I can't arguw with you on this point. He is what he is. He is not Devin Hester who broke through tackles on is PR TD today.

No one on the roster can return kicks better than banks - that was proven in pre-season.

______________________________________________

This blank is reserved for you for when Banks makes his first costly mistake, so you can tell us that you told us so. Until then we will keep failing to get what you are getting at - which is?

ATX_Skins wrote:I don't like you Skinsfan33. You are on my craplist now FYI

I was amazed at how he went down by one arm tackles.

Can I be on your craplist too? You didn't respond to Skinsfan33 saying Banks first two games were amazing. I am curious what you think about the field position that he gave us in those two games.

Here's an question for you. In four games, two we ran well and in two we didn't. Why is that? Giant's and Cowboys happen to be good against the run. Cards and Rams aren't.

On Kick Offs, the Teams are game planning Banks. The Bucs, in preseason had not time to game plan him, so the kicked away from him - even in preseason!!! It is up to Danny to counter this planning. If this game planning continues successfully with each team on kick-offs then erhaps we need to put Paul back there to take the short kicks and power through a couple of tacklers and let Banks stay deep.

For punts, the gunners are flat out beating out defenders. Banks makes the first guy miss, but the second and third guys are cleaning up.

I watched Joe McKnight return a 107 yarder for a TD tonight for the Jets. Banks isn't getting those kind of kicks anymore.

For punts, the gunners are flat out beating out defenders. Banks makes the first guy miss, but the second and third guys are cleaning up.

succinct.

accurate.

true.

He fumbled the ball today, then barely got possession of it before getting taken down. If he makes the catch he has time to go upfield. He had the chance to make a good play and didn't. He needs to take advantage of that.

I just watched Baltimore run one back from the end zone. I watched Devin Hester return a great kick today. I want to see more production out of Banks. You can tell me our blocking is this and that but muffing the catches has been a problem of his.

One job.

ATX_Skins wrote:He fumbled the ball today, then barely got possession of it before getting taken down. If he makes the catch he has time to go upfield. He had the chance to make a good play and didn't. He needs to take advantage of that.

I just watched Baltimore run one back from the end zone. I watched Devin Hester return a great kick today. I want to see more production out of Banks. You can tell me our blocking is this and that but muffing the catches has been a problem of his.

One job.

As I pointed out in this thread, the 107 line drive kick that you saw Joe McKnight of the Jets run out, Banks no longet gets those. The strategy appears to be directional kick to the corner, high and at the goal line. Notice that Gano does that even though, he can kick it to the end of the end zone everytime. Notice their returners seldon reach the 20 either. That appears to be the answer to the new kick rules. To the kicker who cannot do that, Banks will have a field day.

As far as him muffing punts, as I stated earlier in this thread, I can't argue with you on that. Btw, how many turnover has Banks made? How many?

His muffing of the football problem was exposed in the Giant and Card games which you still refuse to acknowledge the guy had two good games returning kicks.

If your point is you want more production out of him, who on this thread doesn't?

Yeah, he has one job and he still is on the field with 10 others who have to do theirs.

Banks is not Devin Hester - accept it.

Still not getting what your point is, but I will take a stab at it.

You feel, not so deep down inside, at the wrong moment and at the wrong time, little Banks will make a costly muff of a punt.

You are a "what have you done for me lately" person. Though Banks has had good games in the first two, he hasn't produced in the second two.

You see the cup as half empty so you think that Banks is not going to provide us with the big return anymore because you didn't notice that he went down with arm tackles last year and notice it this year.

That's what I get from your posts.

That sounds about right to me.

I am getting a little nervous. If Banks (and Danny Smith and the rest of the special teams squad) can't figure out a way to improve this situation, we will be in trouble. It might as well have been Antwaan Randel-El out there this past week.

That said, Banks has showed as recently as two weeks ago why he's so valuable. I haven't forgotten that, either. But it's painful to watch an entire phase of our game get shut down.

Irn-Bru wrote: It might as well have been Antwaan Randel-El out there this past week.

Ehhhh, it's not THAT bad. Sure they need work but wow you're really down on them. LOLOLOL At least with Banks there's still hope and a purpose to move forward, or at least attempt to.

If he catches the muffed punt, I think he takes that to the house. He'll pop one eventually.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote: It might as well have been Antwaan Randel-El out there this past week.

Ehhhh, it's not THAT bad. Sure they need work but wow you're really down on them. LOLOLOL At least with Banks there's still hope and a purpose to move forward, or at least attempt to.

If he catches the muffed punt, I think he takes that to the house. He'll pop one eventually.

Agreed. You have to see Sunday's performance, exactly plus a good deal worse (catch, move left, move right, go nowhere, rinse, repeat) in order to get to Randel-El level.

Banks small stature hurts him and aids him. Sure he's quick he's elusive... But the issue is that if u blow on him, he falls over. Where Hester & Holmes can take a chip and keep moving, that same chip totally reorients Banks...

The thing is this. He's the best that we have, he's a talent and we have to take the good with the bad. He's been consistent with his catches and making sound decisions in regards to touchbacks. So.... It could be worse.

We get a BYE week. We will have an opportunity to address Special Teams (and probably other areas too: Rex's turnovers).

If all goes well, Philthy will be in flames by that time.

I understand that Banks had a solid, not great first two games (there, I addressed it). However, I brought this up last week as an issue I had noticed, and once again there was no production out of him. He muffed a punt that quite honestly he could have made a good return on. If teams are game planning him then he needs to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I too hope the special teams gets some extra attention during the bye week.

Please guys, he is not Randle El. As someone said he would have to juke right, then left, then spin, then go down all within a 2 yd box. Randle El did catch better though.

ATX_Skins wrote:I understand that Banks had a solid, not great first two games (there, I addressed it). However, I brought this up last week as an issue I had noticed, and once again there was no production out of him. He muffed a punt that quite honestly he could have made a good return on. If teams are game planning him then he needs to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I too hope the special teams gets some extra attention during the bye week.

Please guys, he is not Randle El. As someone said he would have to juke right, then left, then spin, then go down all within a 2 yd box. Randle El did catch better though.

This comes from your opening post. Good to see you have softened your stance.

ATX_Skins wrote:

Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright.

Like Cartwright?

First of all, Cartwright didn't return kicks under these rules.
Second your opening post is clearly pointing towards kick offs, but later statements expand to his punt returning because you didn't want to address the valid responses concerning what is happening on kick-off returns.

Statwise, Banks had a very good first two games on punt returning ( 18 yards a pop ain't bad for an opening game) but stats don't always tell how valuable a guy is.

Against the Giants, Banks was a vicious facemask away from taking a punt return to the house. It doesn't show in the stats, but teams take note of that (like Cartwright).

Against the Cards, with time running out in the 1st half, Banks gets the big return and sets us up with great scoring position only to se us go three downs and then a blocked field goal. Banks did the job his $405,000 salary pays him. He fulfilled the reason that he is on this roster and he has 12 more games to make more game changing plays.

Yes, his production is down in the last two games. I think all of us are aware of that. If you want open a thread to dicuss that then discuss that, but your statements about Banks getting armed tackled tell the truth about your motives.

I have seen post after post trying to discuss your observation, but clearly all you wanted to do is criticize and put Banks down.

If you want to discuss then discuss. What are some possible solutions?
Should we let the bigger Paul return kick offs. Should we put both of them back there so Paul gets the short kicks. Saying Banks should take advantage of his opportunities? Who on this thread doesn't know that?

Your observations are valid - now, lets have a real discussion.

Cardinals:
Kickoff Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 4No 26 Avg 0TD 31LG

Punt Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 4NO 18AVG 0TD 35LG

Giants:

Kickoff Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 2No 24AVG 0TD 24 LG

Punt Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 4No 13 Avg 0TD 25 LG
N. Paul 1No 0AVG 0TD 0LG

Banks (5-7 155) is tied with Leon Washington (5-8 203) a great returner and ahead of Brad Smith (6-2 212 )a very good returner. I guess it isn't just the small dangerous kick returners who are struggling. I wonder if arm tackles are Washington and Smith's problem too.

40 Brandon Banks WAS WR 13 288 22.2 31 0 10 0 0 0 14PRs 145 10.4 35 0 3 0 2 1
40 Leon Washington SEA RB 12 266 22.2 36 0 8 0 0 0 9PRs 94 10.4 33 0 1 0 2 0
43 Brad Smith BUF WR 2 44 22.0 23 0 2 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Leon Washington 2010 Seattle Seahawks 16 57 1,461 25.6 101T 3TDs 34 7 0 2
Brad Smith 2010 New York Jets 16 50 1,432 28.6 97T 2TDs 34 6 0 0

Red_One43 wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I understand that Banks had a solid, not great first two games (there, I addressed it). However, I brought this up last week as an issue I had noticed, and once again there was no production out of him. He muffed a punt that quite honestly he could have made a good return on. If teams are game planning him then he needs to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I too hope the special teams gets some extra attention during the bye week.

Please guys, he is not Randle El. As someone said he would have to juke right, then left, then spin, then go down all within a 2 yd box. Randle El did catch better though.

This comes from your opening post. Good to see you have softened your stance.

ATX_Skins wrote:

Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright.

Like Cartwright?

First of all, Cartwright didn't return kicks under these rules.
Second you opening post is clearly pointing towards kick offs, but later statements expands to his punt returning because you didn't want to address the valid responses concerning what is happening on kick-off returns.

Statwise, Banks had a very good first two games on punt returning ( 18 yards a pop ain't bad for an opening game) but stats don't always tell how valuable a guy is .

Against the Giants, Banks was a vicious facemask away from taking a punt return to the house. It doesn't show in the stats, but teams take note of that.

Against the Cards, with time running out in the 1st half, Banks gets the big return and sets us up with great scoring position only to se us go three downs and then a blocked field goal. Banks did the job his $405,000 salary pays him. He fulfilled the reason that he is on this roster and he has 12 more games to make more game changing plays.

Yes, his production is down in the last two games. I think all of us are aware of that. If you want open a thread to dicuss that them discuss that, but your statements about Banks getting armed tackled tell the truth about your motives.

I have seen post after post trying to discuss your observation which is quite valid, but clearly all you wanted to do is criticize and put Banks down.

If you want to discuss then discuss. What are some possible solutions?
Should we let the bigger Paul return kick offs. Should we put both of them back there so Paul gets the short kicks. Saying Banks should take advantage of his opportunities? Who on this thread doens't know that?

Your observations are valid - now, lets have a real discussion.

Cardinals:
Kickoff Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 4No 26 Avg 0TD 31LG

Punt Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 4NO 18AVG 0TD 35LG

Giants:

Kickoff Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 2No 24AVG 0TD 24 LG

Punt Returns NO AVG TD LG
B. Banks 4No 13 Avg 0TD 25 LG
N. Paul 1No 0AVG 0TD 0LG

Red_One, did Brandon Banks rescue you from a burning building or something?

Look, I will continue to point out his fumbles and yes, his last two games. You can throw out all the stats you want but you can't deny he has been less than average the last two games. Why do you think this thread is still going after I posted it over a week ago, because it's an issue (and you keep it alive for some reason).

I have NEVER said he needs to be replaced, I simply brought up an issue that I determined fit for this board. If you for some reason have an issue with people posting on this board about the Redskins than I don't know what to tell you. I had softened my stance because you and others brought up valid points about his production in the first two games, which is also the exact reason I had not mentioned it during that time, it had not IMO been an issue then. But it is now, and since two games ago I have decided to bring it up. Some of you think it's the special teams, I have a feeling it is too, or was, until last game when he had a chance to return a punt and fumbled it. Therefor it is a mix. Remember he also fumbled the ball last year, a couple times. The stats won't show all fumbles, just fumbles lost. The only reason I brought up Cartwright is because of the arm tackle thing. I couldn't stand Cartwright for that very reason, he was terrible but we kept him around for some reason and I could never figure out why. It was like having two vehicles, a sedan and a truck, then you buy a third brand new sedan and keep the old one because it had character. Everyone knew it ran like crap, it was too small and it was bound to break down but you just had to hold onto it. Made no sense.

It seems to me as if you don't think there is anything wrong with his performance and that is fine for you to think that, I will just continue to argue with you. I DID open up a thread to discuss how his production is down and for some reason you have taken it personally like I'm texting him at midnight while you are at his house about going on the lake this weekend, relax.

BTW stop overanalyzing and assuming things when you read my posts. Well, you can do what you want but it's only going to frustrate you (possibly) and mean nothing to me. Also, no, you cannot be on my "crap list". That is an exclusive club.

Just so you know I typed all of this with a smile on my face. Except for that short power outage where I had to take a break to check to see if my neighbors lights were out too, which they were, thanks for asking. There may be more fires somewhere here in Austin as they usually cut power for some time. If you would like to know more about the wildfires we can talk about that too but I would suggest we do that in another thread ok? These threads are meant for Redskins talk.

ATX_Skins wrote:I understand that Banks had a solid, not great first two games (there, I addressed it). However, I brought this up last week as an issue I had noticed, and once again there was no production out of him. He muffed a punt that quite honestly he could have made a good return on. If teams are game planning him then he needs to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I too hope the special teams gets some extra attention during the bye week.

Please guys, he is not Randle El. As someone said he would have to juke right, then left, then spin, then go down all within a 2 yd box. Randle El did catch better though.

I'm going to be on your crap list some more, because your assessment of hoid first two games is just bonkers. Any returner that puts the team in scoring range in two consecutive games is much better than solid. He was a constant threat to the G-strings and Cards.

Your comment about ARE catching better is based on what? How many fumbles has Banks lost?

When is the last time we had a KR/PR that the opposing team's had to game plan for? Every time he catches a punt I think he will take it a good 20-30 yards and I bet every time he catches a punt with a little room the opposing team's ST coach's butt hole gets tighter than a frog's bottom!

skinsfan#33 wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I understand that Banks had a solid, not great first two games (there, I addressed it). However, I brought this up last week as an issue I had noticed, and once again there was no production out of him. He muffed a punt that quite honestly he could have made a good return on. If teams are game planning him then he needs to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I too hope the special teams gets some extra attention during the bye week.

Please guys, he is not Randle El. As someone said he would have to juke right, then left, then spin, then go down all within a 2 yd box. Randle El did catch better though.

I'm going to be on your crap list some more, because your assessment of hoid first two games is just bonkers. Any returner that puts the team in scoring range in two consecutive games is much better than solid. He was a constant threat to the G-strings and Cards.

Your comment about ARE catching better is based on what? How many fumbles has Banks lost?

When is the last time we had a KR/PR that the opposing team's had to game plan for? Every time he catches a punt I think he will take it a good 20-30 yards and I bet every time he catches a punt with a little room the opposing team's ST coach's butt hole gets tighter than a frog's bottom!

Don't get too excited about the crap list thing...

I'm pretty sure teams make a game plan for every KR/PR btw. Randle El did a good job at holding onto the ball. By Banks fumbling last game he lost a chance to make a return. As few of those chances he has he needs to take advantage of them. Maybe he got excited, I get excited too when I drive over the dam near my house and there are no cops on there. It doesn't mean I hit the gas early when dropping it into 3rd and smack the guardrail. It's a good 1/4 mile btw and I can go really fast.

How about we just ignore the special teams issues all together, be it Banks, the blockers, or both. I'm sure thats what you would like but it's just not happening sorry. I see it as an issue and I will be addressing it until things change.

Like when I argue with my GF about something and I try to compromise, or soften up she brings up the past. That makes the discussion then go further without any movement towards fixing the actual issue at hand. She is really good at arguing btw. She is in law school and ALWAYS has to be right.

So basically we have come to the point where you and Red_One will continue to argue with me and try to point out how badass Banks is. Meanwhile I will continue to point out how he is not performing as I think he should. Now, what we should be discussing is not how good he was against the Giants and Cards, but why he didn't produce the same way against the Cowboys and Rams.

Yes the blocking was sub par (I will admit that), the kicking is different this year ( I will admit to that too), but also had Banks held onto the ball he would have had a chance at a good return. Aaaand he gets tackled easily (that's just because he weighs as much as my dog though). My dog is very good at catching a ball btw, and no matter what the circumstance she always does a good job. She has quick cuts but her legs are not as long as mine so I can always catch her. I taught her not to fumble because it really effects how well she will do afterwards when I am charging at her. I was thinking of getting a Kerrigan Jersey and tossing it two feet away then sacking her to simulate real game situations. What do you think?

ATX_Skins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I understand that Banks had a solid, not great first two games (there, I addressed it). However, I brought this up last week as an issue I had noticed, and once again there was no production out of him. He muffed a punt that quite honestly he could have made a good return on. If teams are game planning him then he needs to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I too hope the special teams gets some extra attention during the bye week.

Please guys, he is not Randle El. As someone said he would have to juke right, then left, then spin, then go down all within a 2 yd box. Randle El did catch better though.

I'm going to be on your crap list some more, because your assessment of hoid first two games is just bonkers. Any returner that puts the team in scoring range in two consecutive games is much better than solid. He was a constant threat to the G-strings and Cards.

Your comment about ARE catching better is based on what? How many fumbles has Banks lost?

When is the last time we had a KR/PR that the opposing team's had to game plan for? Every time he catches a punt I think he will take it a good 20-30 yards and I bet every time he catches a punt with a little room the opposing team's ST coach's butt hole gets tighter than a frog's bottom!

Don't get too excited about the crap list thing...

I'm pretty sure teams make a game plan for every KR/PR btw. Randle El did a good job at holding onto the ball. By Banks fumbling last game he lost a chance to make a return. As few of those chances he has he needs to take advantage of them. Maybe he got excited, I get excited too when I drive over the dam near my house and there are no cops on there. It doesn't mean I hit the gas early when dropping it into 3rd and smack the guardrail. It's a good 1/4 mile btw and I can go really fast.

How about we just ignore the special teams issues all together, be it Banks, the blockers, or both. I'm sure thats what you would like but it's just not happening sorry. I see it as an issue and I will be addressing it until things change.

Like when I argue with my GF about something and I try to compromise, or soften up she brings up the past. That makes the discussion then go further without any movement towards fixing the actual issue at hand. She is really good at arguing btw. She is in law school and ALWAYS has to be right.

So basically we have come to the point where you and Red_One will continue to argue with me and try to point out how badass Banks is. Meanwhile I will continue to point out how he is not performing as I think he should. Now, what we should be discussing is not how good he was against the Giants and Cards, but why he didn't produce the same way against the Cowboys and Rams.

Yes the blocking was sub par (I will admit that), the kicking is different this year ( I will admit to that too), but also had Banks held onto the ball he would have had a chance at a good return. Aaaand he gets tackled easily (that's just because he weighs as much as my dog though). My dog is very good at catching a ball btw, and no matter what the circumstance she always does a good job. She has quick cuts but her legs are not as long as mine so I can always catch her. I taught her not to fumble because it really effects how well she will do afterwards when I am charging at her. I was thinking of getting a Kerrigan Jersey and tossing it two feet away then sacking her to simulate real game situations. What do you think?

I think I got lost somewhere in that rambling post. Somewhere between cops at your house, driving fast, your girl friend nagging you, and you roughing up your dog.

skinsfan#33 wrote: think I got lost somewhere in that rambling post. Somewhere between cops at your house, driving fast, your girl friend nagging you, and you roughing up your dog.

You're welcome.

ATX_Skins wrote:I was thinking of getting a Kerrigan Jersey and tossing it two feet away then sacking her to simulate real game situations. What do you think?

Is that a home or away jersey, and why are you tossing it two feet away?

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I was thinking of getting a Kerrigan Jersey and tossing it two feet away then sacking her to simulate real game situations. What do you think?

Is that a home or away jersey, and why are you tossing it two feet away?

I figured since I live in Texas I should get an away jersey.

ATX_Skins wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I was thinking of getting a Kerrigan Jersey and tossing it two feet away then sacking her to simulate real game situations. What do you think?

Is that a home or away jersey, and why are you tossing it two feet away?

I figured since I live in Texas I should get an away jersey.

But shouldn't you be tossing the ball, not the jersey?

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I was thinking of getting a Kerrigan Jersey and tossing it two feet away then sacking her to simulate real game situations. What do you think?

Is that a home or away jersey, and why are you tossing it two feet away?

I figured since I live in Texas I should get an away jersey.

But shouldn't you be tossing the ball, not the jersey?

Well, It was a follow up on the ball throwing sentence. So yes, I would be throwing a ball while wearing the jersey. Either way the dog is getting sacked from two feet away.