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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:03 pm
by TeeterSalad
KazooSkinsFan wrote:TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:I love how you take a perennial pro-bowl quarterback who's gone to 5 NFC championship games and combine it with our long term inept O and bam, it's the quarterback's fault. Your argument is too dumb to give a serious response to which is why I didn't, and didn't again.
Are you going to also argue our aging team in Shannahan's fault? Your welcoming gift to new comers is blame for the half dozen years before they got here. That's a good recruiting strategy. Welcome, and thanks for nothing!
The argument that McNabb played like garbage last year is a dumb argument?
There were games when the O-line held up decently well and McNabb still choked and missed easy throws. There were also games when the running game got going strong and McNabb couldn't hit the throws needed to sustain a drive. When did McNabb have an elite receiving corps in Philly? I guess I don't remember that. McNabb is not the same QB he was during his pro-bowl years in Philly, not even close; then again Andy Reid probably knew that.
I'm not saying that its all his fault or that he can't turn it around, I'm just saying that based on last season I think they should give somebody else a go, and see how they do. Hell, Grossman did better than McNabb so what can it hurt? Oh and I apologize if this just comes off to you as another dumb argument.
You take an offense that's been dreadful for years and place a quarterback who's a perennial winner and is HOF bound and obviously the problem is the quarterback. Gotcha. Just because three of you stamp your feet and insist doesn't make it any less reality challenged.
Perhaps the 3 of us actually watched the games and came to the conclusion that McNabb played awful last season. While you would rather defend the idea that McNabb WAS a good QB in Philly so it must not be his fault that he sucked here.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:19 pm
by VetSkinsFan
KazooSkinsFan wrote:TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:I love how you take a perennial pro-bowl quarterback who's gone to 5 NFC championship games and combine it with our long term inept O and bam, it's the quarterback's fault. Your argument is too dumb to give a serious response to which is why I didn't, and didn't again.
Are you going to also argue our aging team in Shannahan's fault? Your welcoming gift to new comers is blame for the half dozen years before they got here. That's a good recruiting strategy. Welcome, and thanks for nothing!
The argument that McNabb played like garbage last year is a dumb argument?
There were games when the O-line held up decently well and McNabb still choked and missed easy throws. There were also games when the running game got going strong and McNabb couldn't hit the throws needed to sustain a drive. When did McNabb have an elite receiving corps in Philly? I guess I don't remember that. McNabb is not the same QB he was during his pro-bowl years in Philly, not even close; then again Andy Reid probably knew that.
I'm not saying that its all his fault or that he can't turn it around, I'm just saying that based on last season I think they should give somebody else a go, and see how they do. Hell, Grossman did better than McNabb so what can it hurt? Oh and I apologize if this just comes off to you as another dumb argument.
You take an offense that's been dreadful for years and place a quarterback who's a perennial winner and is HOF bound and obviously the problem is the quarterback. Gotcha. Just because three of you stamp your feet and insist doesn't make it any less reality challenged.
Last I checked, his Super Bowl ring finger was still empty.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:29 pm
by TeeterSalad
VetSkinsFan wrote:Last I checked, his Super Bowl ring finger was still empty.
Which makes the Hall of Fame statement quite a reach IMO.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:46 pm
by crazyhorse1
TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Donovan McNabb
If/when McNabb is gone then I won't be pining for the day he was here, but until then, he is he's a great QB and I don't know why we're looking at the rest of the mediocrities we have to choose from.
Because McNabb couldn't get it done last year, it's that simple. McNabb was less than mediocre for most of last season, we might as well play younger mediocrity that could possibly grow to become better. It's time to see what someone else can do; if that person ends up being worse than McNabb was, and he (McNabb) is still on the roster, than I would say give him another shot.
McNabb's performance has to be looked at in the context of weak receivers, terrible OL, and no running game most of the time. Unfortunately, it looks like more of the same this year. Bye bye Shany.
His decision to force the 3-4 on a team unfit for it instead of building the OL will prove fatal, especially so since he is continuing down that road.
I honestly think that they will start the QB that practices the best if they ever get back to work.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:55 pm
by CanesSkins26
KazooSkinsFan wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:die cowboys die wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:I love how you take a perennial pro-bowl quarterback who's gone to 5 NFC championship games and combine it with our long term inept O and bam, it's the quarterback's fault. Your argument is too dumb to give a serious response to which is why I didn't, and didn't again.
regardless of his history, McNabb
continually killed drives and turned the ball over on
rookie mistakes. ROOKIE mistakes.
You call them "rookie" I call them "running for your life with no one blocking and one guy to throw to."
Moss
Armstrong
ey
He had enough weapons to post decent numbers.
As I said, one "receiver." Yes, he also had a tight end to dump off too. Portis is also a good back out of the backfield when he's playing. But you're supporting my point, and adding comedy.
Anthony Armstrong showed last season that he is a solid option at wide receiver. You don't think it's impressive for a first year player to have 871 yards? Do you remember the last time a Redskins rookie receiver had 871 yards?
How many qb's do you think have more than one good "receiver" and a tight end to throw to?
Matt Ryan, by comparison, had 3705 yards and 28 td's throwing primarily to Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez. The second leading "receiver" on that team was Michael Jenkins, who had less receptions, td's, and yards than Armstrong.
Philip Rivers was second in the NFL in qb rating despite a bad offensive line that let him get sacked 38 times; a struggling running game with injuries to their starter; Gates missing 6 games with injury and being at less than full strength all year; and Vincent Jackson missing 11 games. His leading "receivers" were Malcolm Floyd and Patrick Crayton. Anthony Armstrong topped both of them in yards and receptions; and also topped Crayton in tds, while Floyd had 6 tds to Armstrong's 3.
Josh Freeman had a qb rating of 95.9 throwing primarily to Mike Williams and Kellen Winslow. His second "receiver" was Arrelious Benn, a rookie, who had a whopping total of 25 receptions, 295 yards, and 2 tds. Armstrong more than doubled Benn's yardage total and almost doubled his receptions.
Matt Cassel....a 93 qb rating. He had Dwayne Bowe and running backs to throw to. His starting tight end was Tony Moeaki and his second "receiver" was Chris Chambers, who had 22 receptions (Armstrong doubled that), 213 yards (Armstrong had four times as many yards), and 1 td (Armstrong had three times as many).
David Garrard...a 90.8 qb rating throwing to Mike Thomas, Mercedes Lewis, and Mike Sims-Walker.
Our offense was all-around bad and it's clearly not all on McNabb, but the reality is that he had offensive weapons that are comparable, if not better, than other qbs who posted far better numbers than McNabb.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:56 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:I love how you take a perennial pro-bowl quarterback who's gone to 5 NFC championship games and combine it with our long term inept O and bam, it's the quarterback's fault. Your argument is too dumb to give a serious response to which is why I didn't, and didn't again.
Are you going to also argue our aging team in Shannahan's fault? Your welcoming gift to new comers is blame for the half dozen years before they got here. That's a good recruiting strategy. Welcome, and thanks for nothing!
The argument that McNabb played like garbage last year is a dumb argument?
There were games when the O-line held up decently well and McNabb still choked and missed easy throws. There were also games when the running game got going strong and McNabb couldn't hit the throws needed to sustain a drive. When did McNabb have an elite receiving corps in Philly? I guess I don't remember that. McNabb is not the same QB he was during his pro-bowl years in Philly, not even close; then again Andy Reid probably knew that.
I'm not saying that its all his fault or that he can't turn it around, I'm just saying that based on last season I think they should give somebody else a go, and see how they do. Hell, Grossman did better than McNabb so what can it hurt? Oh and I apologize if this just comes off to you as another dumb argument.
You take an offense that's been dreadful for years and place a quarterback who's a perennial winner and is HOF bound and obviously the problem is the quarterback. Gotcha. Just because three of you stamp your feet and insist doesn't make it any less reality challenged.
Perhaps the 3 of us actually watched the games and came to the conclusion that McNabb played awful last season. While you would rather defend the idea that
McNabb WAS a good QB in Philly so it must not be his fault that he sucked here.
If you were right you'd hold me to what I said, not make up things I didn't.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:57 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
VetSkinsFan wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:You take an offense that's been dreadful for years and place a quarterback who's a perennial winner and is HOF bound and obviously the problem is the quarterback. Gotcha. Just because three of you stamp your feet and insist doesn't make it any less reality challenged.
Last I checked, his Super Bowl ring finger was still empty.
This is true
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:04 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
CanesSkins26 wrote:Anthony Armstrong showed last season that he is a solid option at wide receiver. You don't think it's impressive for a first year player to have 871 yards? Do you remember the last time a Redskins rookie receiver had 871 yards?
I like Armstrong too, but our O has been dreadful for years and it's being dumped on McNabb and having Armstrong doesn't undo that. I acknowledge all your points on quarterbacks and receivers, but you're boiling our dreadful O down to receiver, I also pointed out the O line and running game in addition to receivers. Did your other quarterbacks have to deal with all three areas? I don't think so.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:04 am
by TeeterSalad
KazooSkinsFan wrote:If you were right you'd hold me to what I said, not make up things I didn't.
I guess I'm missing the point of your argument, and I'm ok with that seems how it tends to switch from post to post.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:26 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:If you were right you'd hold me to what I said, not make up things I didn't.
I guess I'm missing the point of your argument, and I'm ok with that seems how it tends to switch from post to post.
Our O sucked long before McNabb, McNabb was good long before our O. Putting the two together you blame McNabb for the O sucking. I think that's silly. Same story, every post.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:35 pm
by CanesSkins26
KazooSkinsFan wrote:TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:If you were right you'd hold me to what I said, not make up things I didn't.
I guess I'm missing the point of your argument, and I'm ok with that seems how it tends to switch from post to post.
Our O sucked long before McNabb, McNabb was good long before our O. Putting the two together you blame McNabb for the O sucking. I think that's silly. Same story, every post.
I don't think anybody is saying that McNabb is solely to blame for the O sucking. But it's hard to deny that he didn't contribute to the O sucking. And as bad as our O has been over the years, the last time that we had a qb actually have more int's than td's was Patrick Ramsey in 2002.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:26 pm
by TeeterSalad
KazooSkinsFan wrote:TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:If you were right you'd hold me to what I said, not make up things I didn't.
I guess I'm missing the point of your argument, and I'm ok with that seems how it tends to switch from post to post.
Our O sucked long before McNabb, McNabb was good long before our O. Putting the two together you blame McNabb for the O sucking. I think that's silly. Same story, every post.
Actually I'm blaming McNabb for McNabb sucking, and you seem to be blaming the offense for McNabb sucking.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:18 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:TeeterSalad wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:If you were right you'd hold me to what I said, not make up things I didn't.
I guess I'm missing the point of your argument, and I'm ok with that seems how it tends to switch from post to post.
Our O sucked long before McNabb, McNabb was good long before our O. Putting the two together you blame McNabb for the O sucking. I think that's silly. Same story, every post.
Actually I'm blaming McNabb for McNabb sucking, and you seem to be blaming the offense for McNabb sucking.
No, I'm pointing out the offense sucked before McNabb and McNabb didn't suck before our offense. It's a team game.
Adding to that turning to Grossman and Beck who have never been good in any offense over McNabb doesn't make any sense at all.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:25 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
CanesSkins26 wrote:And as bad as our O has been over the years, the last time that we had a qb actually have more int's than td's was Patrick Ramsey in 2002.
I'm not seeing that how much he sucks in a bad offense is an indication of how good he'd be in a good offense, particularly since he actually has a decade of being good in a good offense and between them Grossman and Beck have zero.
But beyond that, our O line was actually particularly bad last year. Samuels was replaced by a rookie who while talented was a rookie. Our only other decent linemen beyond him were Dockery who didn't play and now's cut because he didn't fit our new blocking scheme and Rabach who's clearly losing a step. Brown while talented played part time and less then 100% with an injury that takes 1-2 years to get over.
They started gelling and improving later in the year...when McNabb wasn't playing....
Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:46 am
by Scottskins
none of the above. I think we go with Grossman while hoping Beck is as good as Shanny is hinting. DMac is also still a possibility...
This team is going to be bad this season no matter how you cut it. Why bring in another standby who I'm sure we would have to give picks up for. Grossman can get us thru until we get Luck next year!
Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:54 am
by SkinsJock
NONE of the above
right now we have 3 probables - I think that McNabb is gone - I hope that Beck is a lot better than we have any reason to think - I'd like to think that Grossman might be better and he could just surprise everyone
we do need to get a young QB in here
I just don't agree that we will be picking in the top 10 of the draft next year