The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

CanesSkins26 wrote:

They never said Rex was the starter at the end of last year because they thought he gave them the best chance of winning. In fact, since they waited until the Skins we're eliminated to try out Rex, that reinforces the reason they gave. They were just tring to see what Rex had so they could make a decision on McNabb with more info on Rex.

So when they benched McNabb in the Lions game in favor of Rex they were doing that for what reason exactly?

No, they didn't come out and say it, but it was obvious that Mike and Kyle had more confidence in Rex than McNabb. The coaches had no confidence in McNabb and Shanahan pretty much admitted in interviews that trading for McNabb was a mistake.

I said nothing about the Detroit game. Read my post. My personal feeling about the Detroit game is Mike got tired of hearing Kyle passing for Rex, was frustrated and made a bad decision. Then compounded it by making up a bunch of bogus reasons that had made him look like an idiot.

If Mike thought Rex gave the team the best chance of winning he wouldn't have waited until the team was eliminated from the playoffs.

To think he benched McNabb at the END OF LAST SEASON for any other reason than to evaluate Rex to be able to make an informed decision on the QB situation for 2011 would be to just let the media tell you what to think.

I prefer to think for myself.

If he really thought Rex gave the team the best chance to win he would have done it before the team was eliminated from the playoff. I know MS doesn't often tell you why he is doing something, in this case nothing else makes sense other than he was evaluating Rex and if the team was in the playoff hunt until the last game, Rex would never have gotten on the field.

skinsfan#33 wrote: They didn't have training camp in the two strike shortened seasons

The premise of your argument depends upon this statement being accurate... would you like to restate it?

The 1982 Strike began on September 21, 1982. I remember it well... I had access to season tickets... and could not use them... I'm pretty sure that, not only was that date AFTER preseason, but that it was, I believe, the 4th week of the Regular season...

The 1987 Strike was voted on by players on September 22... yup, after preseason... The owners actually locked the players out on September 27, and then went into their back-up strategy of replacement games...

There was a preseason before BOTH strike seasons... in fact, there were regular games.

If this is not resolved quickly enough, there WILL be a preseason before the games count this year, as well... players who are not adequately drilled will not only not play as well, but are at increased risk of injury. The league will want them adequately drilled.

SkinsJock wrote:I just don't see Mike & Kyle thinking that there's much to be gained going forward with Rex as the starter here

+1

SkinsJock wrote:McNabb's contract is a nightmare but it's set up so they can get out of it - if they trade him or cut him - either is more likely than keeping him,

Here is what the top 15 QB salaries for 2011 not including D Mac and at least two rookies will crack the top ten

Peyton Manning $23 million dollars * estimated salary
Michael Vick $20 million dollars *estimated salary
Mark Sanchez $14.75 million
Ben Roethlisberger $14.75 million
Carson Palmer $14 million
Tom Brady $13 million
Matt Stafford $12 million
Matt Ryan $11.25 million
Philip Rivers $11.2 million
Tony Romo $11 million
Eli Manning $10 million
Jay Cutler $9 million
Aaron Rodgers $8.25 million
Drew Brees $7.3 million
Matt Schaub $6.8 million

McNabb will get $1.75 million for 2011 plus a $10 million option bonus before week one and another $750,000 in per-game roster bonuses, if he starts and plays in every game including playoffs and the Super Bowl the $750,000 would jump to about $3 million. So the most he would cost the Redskins in 2011 is $14.75 million.

That's what Mark Sanchez and Ben Roethlisberger will make in 2011 win or lose, but McNabb has to take the team to the Super Bowl to get all of his. No post season and he gets $12.5 million max. That's not going to be top 10 QB money after the Draft.

SkinsJock wrote: I just don't see these guys going with Grossman
they will come up with someone else, heck even Derek Anderson has more upside than Grossman

Pick one...
Alex Smith (SF), Matt Leinart (HOU), Marc Bulger (BAL), Todd Collins (CHI), Caleb Hanie (CHI), Brady Quinn (DEN), Drew Stanton (DET). Trent Edwards (JAC), Luke McCown (JAC), Brodie Croyle (KC), Chad Pennington (MIA), Tyler Thigpen (MIA), Tarvaris Jackson (MIN), Jim Sorgi (NYG), Kellen Clemens (NYJ), Kyle Boller (OAK), Bruce Gradkowski (OAK), Dennis Dixon (PIT), Billy Volek (SD), Troy Smith (SF), or Kerry Collins (TEN)...

I could see McNabb still on the roster in 2011 if the lockout runs Aug. maybe even late July, this would allow McNabb to increase his currently non-existent market value and allow Locker, Ponder, Dalton or whoever they get time to get ready to take over the reigns

- Thanks 1niksder! - I did overstate the deal with McNabb a bit - I should have said that they (the FO) put themselves in a situation that leaves them some options and while losing the picks cannot be undone they do have some control of the QB picture here - it's true though, we need a QB

I don't see them keeping McNabb BUT I think that he offers more than Grossman - I don't think that McNabb played or contributed to the offense anywhere close to what Mike or Kyle expected or wanted - While I would be surprised to see these guys keep McNabb after all that has happened, he's here and he's got a better chance at being the starting QB here than Grossman


I think that Mike has his eyes on getting a QB here ASAP - the choice will most likely be as surprising as some of the other stuff he's done

I could see McNabb here in 2011 is another way of me saying, with a long term lockout the Redskins could be stuck with McNabb another year.

1niksder wrote:I could see McNabb here in 2011 is another way of me saying, with a long term lockout the Redskins could be stuck with McNabb another year.

oh no! does that also mean that we have McNabb, Grossman and Beck as our QBs UNTIL this mess gets straightened out?

Countertrey wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote: They didn't have training camp in the two strike shortened seasons

The premise of your argument depends upon this statement being accurate... would you like to restate it?

The 1982 Strike began on September 21, 1982. I remember it well... I had access to season tickets... and could not use them... I'm pretty sure that, not only was that date AFTER preseason, but that it was, I believe, the 4th week of the Regular season...

The 1987 Strike was voted on by players on September 22... yup, after preseason... The owners actually locked the players out on September 27, and then went into their back-up strategy of replacement games...

There was a preseason before BOTH strike seasons... in fact, there were regular games.

If this is not resolved quickly enough, there WILL be a preseason before the games count this year, as well... players who are not adequately drilled will not only not play as well, but are at increased risk of injury. The league will want them adequately drilled.

My memory aint what it once was. I just remebered Scrabs one week and Vets the next.

so ur right, they did have preseason, but then they took ~ a month off.

I still say if the lockout goes into August #5 will probable be on the team, because a month wouldn't be enough time to spool up a new guy.

skinsfan#33 wrote:I still say if the lockout goes into August #5 will probable be on the team, because a month wouldn't be enough time to spool up a new guy.

Totally agree, even late July could be too late, considering this would effect the Redskins, Mcnabb, and whatever team DMac may draw interest from. McNabb would have to learn a new playbook and get in sync with new WRs, as would whoever the Skins bring in... rookie or vet.

If we take Shanny at his word

They know Grossman isn't the answer based on the real game eval he went through at the end of last season. Beck is a unknown (to us not sure how Shanny feels). McNabb is the logical conclusion. Paying a $10 million bonus for 1 more year gives the pick traded for McNabb more worth and the team a year of consistency while they are rebuilding and possibly grooming a replacement.

When they traded for him last year, Sexy Rexy was already on the roster and the plan was for Donovan to be a stop-gap coming in with only a year left on his current deal. So what has changed in one year?

Not much...

OK McNabb had a less than stellar year, and the Skins gave him a deal that keeps him off the market until the 2011 season starts, Rex failed his best friend inspired shot at a comeback and the players have been locked out (and are losing opportunities to improve daily).

McNabb should be the hottest QB on the market (if there were a market) but based on last year the only thing cooking is a ex-coach in Minny and team in his home State.

Having McNabb back for another year wouldn't be bad for either side unless you face the fact that if D-Mac stays.... so does Fat Albert

McNabb remaining in Burgundy & Gold for another season is the only way it makes sense to draft Julio Jones at #10 like so many so-called experts have predicted. I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if whatever alternative the Redskins have planned (draft, trade, free agency) falls through the cracks.

TCIYM wrote:McNabb remaining in Burgundy & Gold for another season is the only way it makes sense to draft Julio Jones at #10 like so many so-called experts have predicted. I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if whatever alternative the Redskins have planned (draft, trade, free agency) falls through the cracks.

If he comes back they need to go defense (which I think they will regardless) at #10

Take anything you can get but if your trying to get a "good" pick, you'd want to deal specifically with three teams: 49er's, Cardinals, Vikings. Those are the teams that NEED a QB and have weapons in place for Mcnugget.

Those teams have shown what they need and its a QB! Mcnugget for president!

TCIYM wrote:McNabb remaining in Burgundy & Gold for another season is the only way it makes sense to draft Julio Jones at #10 like so many so-called experts have predicted. I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if whatever alternative the Redskins have planned (draft, trade, free agency) falls through the cracks.

A WR @ #10

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:McNabb remaining in Burgundy & Gold for another season is the only way it makes sense to draft Julio Jones at #10 like so many so-called experts have predicted. I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if whatever alternative the Redskins have planned (draft, trade, free agency) falls through the cracks.

A WR @ #10

He said it makes sense to keep mcnugget and a WR @ #10 is all you got out of that?

Bro, Mcnugget coming back here when he can go to 2 teams with better weapons than we have is just crazy... because he got treated like crap I don't care how professional you are, you'd leave too.

Totally agree, even late July could be too late, considering this would effect the Redskins, Mcnabb, and whatever team DMac may draw interest from. McNabb would have to learn a new playbook and get in sync with new WRs, as would whoever the Skins bring in... rookie or vet.

When Favre was traded by the Packers to the Jets it wasn't done until August 7. When Favre signed with the Vikings it wasn't until even later in the preseason....August 18th. If a team wants McNabb badly enough they'll take him in August.

McNabb might not want to be here but that decision is essentially not his to make

we are going to see if the FO and the HC/OC here learned anything from the decisions they made and the way they treated players here last season

this is still their sand box and they will decide who is allowed to play in it

langleyparkjoe wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:McNabb remaining in Burgundy & Gold for another season is the only way it makes sense to draft Julio Jones at #10 like so many so-called experts have predicted. I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if whatever alternative the Redskins have planned (draft, trade, free agency) falls through the cracks.

A WR @ #10

He said it makes sense to keep mcnugget and a WR @ #10 is all you got out of that?

Bro, Mcnugget coming back here when he can go to 2 teams with better weapons than we have is just crazy... because he got treated like crap I don't care how professional you are, you'd leave too.

My response was based on the feeling that I get when anyone even mentions the idea using the #10 on a WR. It makes me angry, nevous and I feel like puking.

I have said several times that I think #5 will be back of the team doesn't get a legit trade offer for him or if the lockout goes late into the summer.

Unlike Haynesworth, Mcnabb can't decide to leave! He is under contract. AH could choose to become a FA, #5 can't.

skinsfan#33 wrote:...AH could choose to become a FA...

I thought that Fat Al was under contract as well Isn't he due another $5 million this season I could be wrong, but I thought that he was.

SkinsJock wrote:we are going to see if the FO and the HC/OC here learned anything from the decisions they made and the way they treated players here last season

The only problem I had with the way the coaches treated players last year was the explanations MS gave for benching mcnabb after the Detroit game. It hurt mcnabb so much, a week later he signed a contact extension.

The "poor treatment" of players is mostly a local media made issue. Every time players talked to the media they had nothing but praise for the coaching staff.

Did MS ruffle a few feathers? Absolutely. You know what I say too that? Whaa! Cry me a frakkin river. MS did far more good than harm.

fanforlife wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:...AH could choose to become a FA...

I thought that Fat Al was under contract as well Isn't he due another $5 million this season I could be wrong, but I thought that he was.

$5.4 million that is not guaranteed... he can buy his way out for about $18 million according to his contract, McNabb offered to give back $3.5 million for his release but it's not in his contract.

fanforlife wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:...AH could choose to become a FA...

I thought that Fat Al was under contract as well Isn't he due another $5 million this season I could be wrong, but I thought that he was.

When the skins redid AH and DHall's contract they essentially made them a one year contact with a player option to come back for the remainder of the contract. If the player decided to become a FA, they would have to give back a % of the bonus they got. In AH's case he would have to give back about 16M. This isn't likely to happen and was mostly a ruse to get all of their bonuses to count last year, but they both could choose to become FAs.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

fanforlife wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:...AH could choose to become a FA...

I thought that Fat Al was under contract as well Isn't he due another $5 million this season I could be wrong, but I thought that he was.

When the skins redid AH and DHall's contract they essentially made them a one year contact with a player option to come back for the remainder of the contract. If the player decided to become a FA, they would have to give back a % of the bonus they got. In AH's case he would have to give back about 16M. This isn't likely to happen and was mostly a ruse to get all of their bonuses to count last year, but they both could choose to become FAs.

Good to know.

1niksder wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:I still say if the lockout goes into August #5 will probable be on the team, because a month wouldn't be enough time to spool up a new guy.

Totally agree, even late July could be too late, considering this would effect the Redskins, Mcnabb, and whatever team DMac may draw interest from. McNabb would have to learn a new playbook and get in sync with new WRs, as would whoever the Skins bring in... rookie or vet.

If we take Shanny at his word

They know Grossman isn't the answer based on the real game eval he went through at the end of last season. Beck is a unknown (to us not sure how Shanny feels). McNabb is the logical conclusion. Paying a $10 million bonus for 1 more year gives the pick traded for McNabb more worth and the team a year of consistency while they are rebuilding and possibly grooming a replacement.

When they traded for him last year, Sexy Rexy was already on the roster and the plan was for Donovan to be a stop-gap coming in with only a year left on his current deal. So what has changed in one year?

Not much...

OK McNabb had a less than stellar year, and the Skins gave him a deal that keeps him off the market until the 2011 season starts, Rex failed his best friend inspired shot at a comeback and the players have been locked out (and are losing opportunities to improve daily).

McNabb should be the hottest QB on the market (if there were a market) but based on last year the only thing cooking is a ex-coach in Minny and team in his home State.

Having McNabb back for another year wouldn't be bad for either side unless you face the fact that if D-Mac stays.... so does Fat Albert

I don't necessarily agree with keeping McNabb. Without any progress (IMO) from him in the majoriy of the season he played, he was flat. No progress in the execution of the offense.

I at least thought Rex did better than McNabb. And for the money, I don't think I would keep McNabb either. We'll get virtually the same production out of a $10m+ QB as whatever we could sign Rex for (maybe $4m?).

I thought McNabb handled the way he was disrespected admirably, so on the personal side of it all, I hope he goes somewhere and has a good year. It also says something (to me) that Rex and Beck were at the unofficial mini-camp (or whatever you want to call it), but McNabb wasn't.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:I still say if the lockout goes into August #5 will probable be on the team, because a month wouldn't be enough time to spool up a new guy.

Totally agree, even late July could be too late, considering this would effect the Redskins, Mcnabb, and whatever team DMac may draw interest from. McNabb would have to learn a new playbook and get in sync with new WRs, as would whoever the Skins bring in... rookie or vet.

If we take Shanny at his word

They know Grossman isn't the answer based on the real game eval he went through at the end of last season. Beck is a unknown (to us not sure how Shanny feels). McNabb is the logical conclusion. Paying a $10 million bonus for 1 more year gives the pick traded for McNabb more worth and the team a year of consistency while they are rebuilding and possibly grooming a replacement.

When they traded for him last year, Sexy Rexy was already on the roster and the plan was for Donovan to be a stop-gap coming in with only a year left on his current deal. So what has changed in one year?

Not much...

OK McNabb had a less than stellar year, and the Skins gave him a deal that keeps him off the market until the 2011 season starts, Rex failed his best friend inspired shot at a comeback and the players have been locked out (and are losing opportunities to improve daily).

McNabb should be the hottest QB on the market (if there were a market) but based on last year the only thing cooking is a ex-coach in Minny and team in his home State.

Having McNabb back for another year wouldn't be bad for either side unless you face the fact that if D-Mac stays.... so does Fat Albert

I don't necessarily agree with keeping McNabb. Without any progress (IMO) from him in the majoriy of the season he played, he was flat. No progress in the execution of the offense.

I at least thought Rex did better than McNabb. And for the money, I don't think I would keep McNabb either. We'll get virtually the same production out of a $10m+ QB as whatever we could sign Rex for (maybe $4m?).

I thought McNabb handled the way he was disrespected admirably, so on the personal side of it all, I hope he goes somewhere and has a good year. It also says something (to me) that Rex and Beck were at the unofficial mini-camp (or whatever you want to call it), but McNabb wasn't.

On your Point 1 - Excellent point, but I think not only would McNabb need to make some changes, in order for him to return, the Shanahans would need to accomodate McNabb's style of play (improvising). This union just doesn't fit. McNabb said, "Things would obviously have to change," he added. "Relationships would have to be better. Conversations would have to be better." This ain't happening. Shanahan said he definitely would welcome back McNabb if McNabb were willing to return to the Redskins as a backup "but I'm not sure he would, which I would understand. But I think that's why we're talking about hypothetical situations. I don't think that would happen. But if he was interested in that, obviously, that'd be a possibility." I say no chance McNabb ever plays a down for the Skins again even in an emergency case, because he will not be on this team once the first game is played. I think that McNabb is more open to coming back then the Shanahans are at welcoming him back. Time to move on.

On your Point 2 - Excellent point! Why pay the big bucks when you got just as much out of the little bucks?

On your Point 3 - Excellent point as well! McNabb's absence, on the surface, speaks volumes. Based on off-season history, McNabb would be there or have the receivers down in Arizona. I include "on the surface," because there might have been a conflict in schedules (anything's possible).

I don't think that with a normal scenario there is any doubt that McNabb would be traded - given this situation, who knows

Rex played better than McNabb but I think that Mike & Kyle do not think that Rex gives them the QB or the leader at QB they want

If Mike is unable to trade McNabb by July - that will make for an interesting QB deal here at training camp


I think it might be kind of fun to see if McNabb wants to show that he can play QB here OR anywhere


again - I don't think that McNabb is here but I still think that McNabb offers more upside than Grossman

SkinsJock wrote:If Mike is unable to trade McNabb by July - that will make for an interesting QB deal here at training camp
I think it might be kind of fun to see if McNabb wants to show that he can play QB here OR anywhere

You raise an interesting possiblity. Do you let McNabb play with the 1st team knowing that he won't be here. Do you let McNabb play with the second team risking that he will look bad and lose trade value.

If it drags into pre-season then the value of McNabb goes up with each QB injury and QB disappointment.

I bet McNabb is not allowed to play in any pre-season games for the Redskins.