Whoa: Say No to Cam Skins!!

[Redskins_Fanatic]

Let's see if I can explain this a little better....

In the First Round of the Draft, I believe that teams should only be looking at players who:

a. Can make an IMMEDIATE IMPACT as a starter (from game #1 of their rookie season)

b. Play the position of Primary Need for the team (top need only)

c. Have proven they can compete and succeed at the highest level available against the best opposition available (ie... nobody from UCONN)

If no player who meets those criteria is available, the team should do everything possible to get out of the pick they have. Either by trading it for later round picks, or (my preference) for a proven veteran at that position of need.


So, in terms of the Redskins, I would suggest that QB is the Primary Need this year. IF one assumes that none of the top QB's meet all three of those criteria, then I would suggest that the Redskins should be looking to get out of the pick.

Does that make the ideology clearer, even if you still don't agree with it?

[CanesSkins26]

If there isn't someone at #10 who can do that, I don't see there being anyone there later on in the round.

That makes no sense. The point of trading down in the first is to still get a player that can contribute immediately while also picking up additional picks. If you have the #10 pick but like a player that you believe will still be there at 20 and have the chance to move down, still get him, and add picks, of course you would do that. Moving down in the first doesn't mean you aren't getting someone that can come in and contribute immediately.

As for your idea that a first round pick has to contribute immediately, if the Packers followed your philosophy on drafting they wouldn't have Aaron Rogers right now.

[langleyparkjoe]

Good point about the successful QBs.

RF we don't just need a QB bro, we need quite a few positions so that #10 spot is really valuable for our Skins.

[Redskins_Fanatic]

That makes no sense. The point of trading down in the first is to still get a player that can contribute immediately while also picking up additional picks. If you have the #10 pick but like a player that you believe will still be there at 20 and have the chance to move down, still get him, and add picks, of course you would do that. Moving down in the first doesn't mean you aren't getting someone that can come in and contribute immediately.

The point of the First Round is to get a player who can immediately contribute at your position of Primary Need. To paraphrase a song.... "10,000 Guards when all you need is a Safety." I don't care if the guy is the next Jack Lambert, if your primary need isn't a LB, he's a waste, whether it's at #10, #1 or #32.

As for your idea that a first round pick has to contribute immediately, if the Packers followed your philosophy on drafting they wouldn't have Aaron Rogers right now.

I couldn't care any less about Aaron Rogers or the Green Bay Packers. I'm a Redskins fan, and a Redskins fan only. With the amount of money 1st rounders make they MUST be able to earn it immediately. Otherwise that money is better spent on free agents who can contribute.

[Redskins_Fanatic]

RF we don't just need a QB bro, we need quite a few positions so that #10 spot is really valuable for our Skins.

I would suggest that you could fill every other need on this team and if QB is not addressed the Redskins will still not make the playoffs next year. I believe that QB is our PRIMARY need. Not our ONLY need, but the most glaring and deepest hole that needs to be filled.

[CanesSkins26]

Let's see if I can explain this a little better....

In the First Round of the Draft, I believe that teams should only be looking at players who:

a. Can make an IMMEDIATE IMPACT as a starter (from game #1 of their rookie season)

b. Play the position of Primary Need for the team (top need only)

c. Have proven they can compete and succeed at the highest level available against the best opposition available (ie... nobody from UCONN)

If no player who meets those criteria is available, the team should do everything possible to get out of the pick they have. Either by trading it for later round picks, or (my preference) for a proven veteran at that position of need.


So, in terms of the Redskins, I would suggest that QB is the Primary Need this year. IF one assumes that none of the top QB's meet all three of those criteria, then I would suggest that the Redskins should be looking to get out of the pick.

Does that make the ideology clearer, even if you still don't agree with it?

Ok, but how many qb's can come in and contribute right away? And what is you definition of "contribute"? Peyton Manning, for example, played right away as a rookie but was god awful his first year. Does that count as "contributing"? And for every Manning and Bradford there are guys like Rogers and Rivers who take a few years to develop.

And just bc there isn't a qb worth taking at #10, I don't see what sense it makes it trade out of the first. We need help at lb and wr too, for example. We could take Julio Jones in the first and use our second round on a qb, for example.

[crazyhorse1]

Dag, I like the guy.. I can care less what he says, as long as he puts up numbers. I personally like Ponder from FSU but I wouldn't mind having Cam either but just not at the #10 spot. I feel we can get a QB in another round. Plus you people seem to care more about controversy than players skills. I'll take a loud mouth ignorant SOB who can put up numbers for us and help win us some games anyday.

The media is only looking at Cam and delightedly finding deficiencies. If the same light was shining on other prospects, there would be no absence of red flags. Almost all hot-shot college quarterbacks are pampered, egotistical maniacs who make themselves look like fools in the media-- as a nation, we breed them by our incredible assinine attitudes toward sports "heroes." All of the college quarterbacks I have ever played with beyond high school were more or less bums. The one's who made it in the NFL were taught to appear 'nice" and say the right things (for bucks.) Sometimes that doesn't even work (Michael Vick, Big Ben). The only real issues are talent and the willingness to work. Fans sometimes confuse the NFL wilh Boy Scouts of America.

[chiefhog44]

Anyone hear Charlie Casserly yesterday on Sirius NFL reviewing Cam. Was pointing out some major concerns like he came from an elementary offense, battles inaccuracy, poor footwork. Interesting

[markshark84]

I couldn't care any less about Aaron Rogers or the Green Bay Packers. I'm a Redskins fan, and a Redskins fan only. With the amount of money 1st rounders make they MUST be able to earn it immediately. Otherwise that money is better spent on free agents who can contribute.

Wow, you sure do sound like Danny boy.

Maybe we should just skip the draft all together and just make waves in the FA market..... Especially because FAs make so much less $$$ than first rounders.....

In reality, the best way to bankroll a team is to draft players, sign them to (slightly backloaded) long term deals BEFORE they prove themselves(at least for the first 3 round players). If they don't earn their $$, you cut or restructure. If they do, then you have made a great deal.

If there is anything that we have learned, it should be that FAs don't equal automatic success for the skins.........at least I sure hope everyone has learned that.

[markshark84]

Dag, I like the guy.. I can care less what he says, as long as he puts up numbers. I personally like Ponder from FSU but I wouldn't mind having Cam either but just not at the #10 spot. I feel we can get a QB in another round. Plus you people seem to care more about controversy than players skills. I'll take a loud mouth ignorant SOB who can put up numbers for us and help win us some games anyday.

The media is only looking at Cam and delightedly finding deficiencies. If the same light was shining on other prospects, there would be no absence of red flags. Almost all hot-shot college quarterbacks are pampered, egotistical maniacs who make themselves look like fools in the media-- as a nation, we breed them by our incredible assinine attitudes toward sports "heroes." All of the college quarterbacks I have ever played with beyond high school were more or less bums. The one's who made it in the NFL were taught to appear 'nice" and say the right things (for bucks.) Sometimes that doesn't even work (Michael Vick, Big Ben). The only real issues are talent and the willingness to work. Fans sometimes confuse the NFL wilh Boy Scouts of America.

I'm really not sure that the media is working that hard to "shine the light" or find deficiencies in Cam. Cam is doing a fine job of both of those himself.....after all, he did have a PERSONAL media day..... and you can't really defend some of the sound bites he has made during the combine.

In all honesty, though, the "deficiencies" that Cam is showing have been there from day one -- and aren't very difficult to see. Remember that incomplete TD pass in the national championship game? I have literally never seen a guy so open -- but Cam threw the pass short. His accuracy has always been an issue -- and since accuracy is probably the biggest determinant in the NCAA--NFL transition, I don't know why anyone would pick him in the top 10.

But the fact is that Cam is not really helping himself very much. He was horrible at the combine, made egotisitcal quotes about himself in interviews, he held a personal media day -- and this is just recent. He also has quite the past -- and you can say all you want that every NCAA player does the stuff he got caught for, but I just don't believe it. As a player, I never saw guys steal computers or anything of serious value. And all of that stuff just makes the $$$$ for play rumors that much more creditable.

The QB position is one of sacrafice and humility. A QB needs to manage egos in the huddle, stay focused on the task at hand, and be held accountable for everyone's actions around him. Self-centered guys generally don't fit the bill -- and there has been nothing I've seen to cause me to believe Cam is a team-first sacrafice type of player. The NFL draft is all about looking at physical and mental traits in an effort to come to some sort of educated guess as to how well a player can transition. Based on what Cam has shown the media and scouts, I just don't believe he has presented himself well.

[Countertrey]

Dag, I like the guy.. I can care less what he says, as long as he puts up numbers. I personally like Ponder from FSU but I wouldn't mind having Cam either but just not at the #10 spot. I feel we can get a QB in another round. Plus you people seem to care more about controversy than players skills. I'll take a loud mouth ignorant SOB who can put up numbers for us and help win us some games anyday.

The media is only looking at Cam and delightedly finding deficiencies. If the same light was shining on other prospects, there would be no absence of red flags. Almost all hot-shot college quarterbacks are pampered, egotistical maniacs who make themselves look like fools in the media-- as a nation, we breed them by our incredible assinine attitudes toward sports "heroes." All of the college quarterbacks I have ever played with beyond high school were more or less bums. The one's who made it in the NFL were taught to appear 'nice" and say the right things (for bucks.) Sometimes that doesn't even work (Michael Vick, Big Ben). The only real issues are talent and the willingness to work. Fans sometimes confuse the NFL wilh Boy Scouts of America.

Soooooo... CH... How many other players were running through the combine trailed by an entourage of PR and Advertising folks?

Dude, that is a major statement of "It IS all about me" if ever I heard one. The fact of the matter is, the media isn't "delightedly finding deficiencies". The deficiencies are running up to the media and poking them in the eye.

[Redskins_Fanatic]

Ok, but how many qb's can come in and contribute right away? And what is you definition of "contribute"? Peyton Manning, for example, played right away as a rookie but was god awful his first year. Does that count as "contributing"? And for every Manning and Bradford there are guys like Rogers and Rivers who take a few years to develop.

I would suggest that both Manning and Bradford contributed right away. A lot of times those guys have to take their lumps while the team around them gets built up. I have no interest in seeing a multi-millionaire, first round draft pick sitting on the sidelines picking his nose and not earning a penny of what he's being paid.

And just bc there isn't a qb worth taking at #10, I don't see what sense it makes it trade out of the first. We need help at lb and wr too, for example. We could take Julio Jones in the first and use our second round on a qb, for example.

QB is this team's number one need. We need help at a lot of other positions as well (like nearly all of them), but I really don't see that we're going to get that top notch, immediate impact guy past #12-15. Heck, there might not be one there at #10.

I have ZERO interest in any QB after the first round. If they're not a top-flight guy I have ZERO interest in them PERIOD. OH, and before you ask, YES that includes Tom Brady.

[Redskins_Fanatic]

Maybe we should just skip the draft all together and just make waves in the FA market..... Especially because FAs make so much less $$$ than first rounders.....

Sounds like one heck of an idea to me. Trade the picks or just give them away for all I care. I have little to no use for Rookies and guys who haven't PROVEN they can play at a high level in the league.

In reality, the best way to bankroll a team is to draft players, sign them to (slightly backloaded) long term deals BEFORE they prove themselves(at least for the first 3 round players). If they don't earn their $$, you cut or restructure. If they do, then you have made a great deal.

That would have been a great idea, except for the Godforsaken Salary Cap, which forces you to retain players who have proven themselves incapable of playing at an acceptable level because of their $$$. Again, I have almost no interest in rookies and unproven players.

If there is anything that we have learned, it should be that FAs don't equal automatic success for the skins.........at least I sure hope everyone has learned that.

If there's one thing I'VE learned it's that I'd rather see this team go 0-16 than to win a Super Bowl the way the New England Patriots have done it (which is what you're suggesting).

[yupchagee]

Maybe we should just skip the draft all together and just make waves in the FA market..... Especially because FAs make so much less $$$ than first rounders.....

Sounds like one heck of an idea to me. Trade the picks or just give them away for all I care. I have little to no use for Rookies and guys who haven't PROVEN they can play at a high level in the league.

In reality, the best way to bankroll a team is to draft players, sign them to (slightly backloaded) long term deals BEFORE they prove themselves(at least for the first 3 round players). If they don't earn their $$, you cut or restructure. If they do, then you have made a great deal.

That would have been a great idea, except for the Godforsaken Salary Cap, which forces you to retain players who have proven themselves incapable of playing at an acceptable level because of their $$$. Again, I have almost no interest in rookies and unproven players.

If there is anything that we have learned, it should be that FAs don't equal automatic success for the skins.........at least I sure hope everyone has learned that.

If there's one thing I'VE learned it's that I'd rather see this team go 0-16 than to win a Super Bowl the way the New England Patriots have done it (which is what you're suggesting).

Are you George Allen's ghost

[yupchagee]

Dag, I like the guy.. I can care less what he says, as long as he puts up numbers. I personally like Ponder from FSU but I wouldn't mind having Cam either but just not at the #10 spot. I feel we can get a QB in another round. Plus you people seem to care more about controversy than players skills. I'll take a loud mouth ignorant SOB who can put up numbers for us and help win us some games anyday.

Problem is that a QB that is "a loud mouth ignortant SOB" will NOT put up the numbers.

They are losers who only care about themselves and their public persona. Again, just look at the sucessful QB's in the league: Brady, Manning, Breese, Rogers... they downplay their greatness... plain and simple.

That #10 spot has to be a sure thing, and Cam-eo has too many personal issues, going way back to before he played at Auburn, to take him at 10.

HAIL.

Ever hear of a guy named Joe Namath?

[Redskins_Fanatic]

Are you George Allen's ghost

Only in a philosophical sense. Nor am I Daniel Snyder, as I'm sure more than one person has wondered over my short time here.

[skinsfan#33]

Are you George Allen's ghost

Only in a philosophical sense. Nor am I Daniel Snyder, as I'm sure more than one person has wondered over my short time here.

Hope, I positive "the Danny" would do a better of running the team than you if you actually believe what you post, which I don't think you do.

I have listened to your hair brained ideas long enough to know that the only way you will ever post anything that makes sense is if you luck into it.

By the way I'm attacking your posts and not you, because I'm almost certain you don't even believe the moronic stuff you post. I'm fairly sure you are much smarter than your post reflect. I just can't figure out why you try to come off sounding like a dope!

[UK Skins Fan]

Dag, I like the guy.. I can care less what he says, as long as he puts up numbers. I personally like Ponder from FSU but I wouldn't mind having Cam either but just not at the #10 spot. I feel we can get a QB in another round. Plus you people seem to care more about controversy than players skills. I'll take a loud mouth ignorant SOB who can put up numbers for us and help win us some games anyday.

Problem is that a QB that is "a loud mouth ignortant SOB" will NOT put up the numbers.

They are losers who only care about themselves and their public persona. Again, just look at the sucessful QB's in the league: Brady, Manning, Breese, Rogers... they downplay their greatness... plain and simple.

That #10 spot has to be a sure thing, and Cam-eo has too many personal issues, going way back to before he played at Auburn, to take him at 10.

HAIL.

Ever hear of a guy named Joe Namath?

I've heard a lot more about his mouth than I've ever heard about his arm strength, accuracy and leadership.

[Redskins_Fanatic]

Hope, I positive "the Danny" would do a better of running the team than you if you actually believe what you post, which I don't think you do.

I have listened to your hair brained ideas long enough to know that the only way you will ever post anything that makes sense is if you luck into it.

I most definitely believe everything I post. If I didn't I wouldn't say it. I just come froma very different philosophical background regarding sports than you folks do. I thought Danny came from there too, but it turns out he doesn't. He's just another gutless owner more interested in the bottom line than in truly Winning.

By the way I'm attacking your posts and not you, because I'm almost certain you don't even believe the moronic stuff you post. I'm fairly sure you are much smarter than your post reflect. I just can't figure out why you try to come off sounding like a dope!

Attack whoever and whatever you want. I couldn't care any less.

[langleyparkjoe]

Sorry, but I've seen what bringing in vets have done to our team recently, no thank you.. I'd rather get some rookies on our sidelines. Obviously we'd have to get a few FAs but I'm not for giving up picks. Heck no.

[Redskins_Fanatic]

lpj, the issue hasn't been bringing in Vets as much as it is bringing in the wrong vets and continuing to allow the salary cap to hamstring our ability to cut the bums who don't work out.

[markshark84]

Maybe we should just skip the draft all together and just make waves in the FA market..... Especially because FAs make so much less $$$ than first rounders.....

Sounds like one heck of an idea to me. Trade the picks or just give them away for all I care. I have little to no use for Rookies and guys who haven't PROVEN they can play at a high level in the league.

In reality, the best way to bankroll a team is to draft players, sign them to (slightly backloaded) long term deals BEFORE they prove themselves(at least for the first 3 round players). If they don't earn their $$, you cut or restructure. If they do, then you have made a great deal.

That would have been a great idea, except for the Godforsaken Salary Cap, which forces you to retain players who have proven themselves incapable of playing at an acceptable level because of their $$$. Again, I have almost no interest in rookies and unproven players.

If there is anything that we have learned, it should be that FAs don't equal automatic success for the skins.........at least I sure hope everyone has learned that.

If there's one thing I'VE learned it's that I'd rather see this team go 0-16 than to win a Super Bowl the way the New England Patriots have done it (which is what you're suggesting).

Hey, to each their own.

And I actually wasn't even thinking about the Pats in this case (which is another good example), I was thinking about the Steelers and Packers -- the two NFL teams who had the greatest amount of their own draft picks on their current rosters last season. But, I guess drafting well has nothing to do with success in the NFL.....

If there is one thing the Danny has taught us is that making a splash and signing proven vets in the free agent market is the quickest way to NFL success........

Although I hate to tell you this, the common denominator with SB teams is their ability to draft well (the only exception being NO).

[skinsfan#33]

Although I hate to tell you this, the common denominator with SB teams is their ability to draft well (the only exception being NO).

Actually, most of NO team are draft picks. Now they did get their most important player (Breeze) via FA but their core of their team came through the draft.

[Redskins_Fanatic]

Although I hate to tell you this, the common denominator with SB teams is their ability to draft well (the only exception being NO).

Assuming that's true.... I hope this team never goes to another SB in my lifetime.

[emoses14]

Although I hate to tell you this, the common denominator with SB teams is their ability to draft well (the only exception being NO).

Assuming that's true.... I hope this team never goes to another SB in my lifetime.