The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Irn-Bru wrote: Sounds like a lot of arbitrary standards and distinctions to cover a stupid generalization. Why not just admit that the original idea wasn't worth hanging onto?

The original idea is one I've believed in for as long as I've been following football, so it's not going anywhere.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Striving for perfection doesn't mean not taking field goals inside the 10...

Striving for Perfection means not having to consider kicking fieldgoals in side the 10 because you know that with four downs your team can punch the ball into the end zone; or at worst your defense will hold if you do turn the ball over on downs that deep in the opponent's end of the field.

Ah. So now your claim is not only that there has never been a "great" team in the entire history of the NFL, but also that there has never been a team that was "striving for perfection" in the history of the NFL.



Sorry man, I just can't take this line of thinking seriously. What you are saying is that thousands of men have essentially been wasting their time for the last century, because they weren't "striving for perfection" as you define the term.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:You must be really fun to spend time with. So do you achieve your standard in your own life?

I don't engage in competitive endeavours in my life because I know I can't maintain that standard.

Life is competitive. And I didn't think so

Irn-Bru wrote:Ah. So now your claim is not only that there has never been a "great" team in the entire history of the NFL, but also that there has never been a team that was "striving for perfection" in the history of the NFL.

My claim has ALWAYS been that there's never been a GREAT team in the history of the NFL. I think that there have been some teams that would have liked to try and live up to that ideal, but it's not something that's easy to do because obviously these guys have to win to keep their jobs.

During the 1991-92 season the Redskins only made 9 FGA's of 29 yards or less (None from 0-19 yards). Chip Lohmiller hit all of them. That might be as close as any team will ever come to living up to the standard of offensive prowess that I'm talking about. The 1972 Dolphins were just a little bit less effective. 10/10 inside that range but 7 of those were from 18-19 yards.

Irn-Bru wrote:Sorry man, I just can't take this line of thinking seriously. What you are saying is that thousands of men have essentially been wasting their time for the last century, because they weren't "striving for perfection" as you define the term.

That's fine. I couldn't care any less what anyone else thinks of me or my viewpoints on things. I never have and probably never will. If what I think of them means anything to even one of those thousands of men I'd be absolutely shocked.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:My claim has ALWAYS been that there's never been a GREAT team in the history of the NFL. I think that there have been some teams that would have liked to try and live up to that ideal, but it's not something that's easy to do because obviously these guys have to win to keep their jobs

Actually it's not an ideal anyone strives to accomplish, it's a delusion that no one takes seriously. High performance teams maximize their returns, they don't throw away opportunities in foolish pride that they don't believe in kicking field goals inside the 20.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Actually it's not an ideal anyone strives to accomplish, it's a delusion that no one takes seriously. High performance teams maximize their returns, they don't throw away opportunities in foolish pride that they don't believe in kicking field goals inside the 20.

It's a delusion that I take quite seriously, thank you very much.

BTW - We're talking inside the 10, not the 20.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:It's a delusion that I take quite seriously, thank you very much.

Not seriously enough to do yourself according to your own story since you acknowledge you don't meet your own standard and so you don't try.

It's always about being consistently better than the percentages... not being perfect.

That's what truly makes a great team.

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:yea, the skins don't care though. There are plenty of decent FA kickers every year and they never get one.

If that's true, why is Suisham an active kicker?

What does Suisham have to do with it? he stinks. I'm talking about guys like Graham, Tynes, and Cundiff that they could have brought in. Just to name a few. There are plenty every year.

brad7686 wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:yea, the skins don't care though. There are plenty of decent FA kickers every year and they never get one.

If that's true, why is Suisham an active kicker?

What does Suisham have to do with it? he stinks. I'm talking about guys like Graham, Tynes, and Cundiff that they could have brought in. Just to name a few. There are plenty every year.

My point is, if they are so great, and so much better than Suisham, why is he on a roster while they aren't?

No surprise here. I've been watching FSU kickers choke away games for years

Countertrey wrote:

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:But that doesn't explain why many winners in the league — in fact, ALL OF THEM — have that "mentality." There isn't a single team in the history of the NFL that just refused to kick field goals once they got inside the 10. In fact, all of the great teams won many of their games by taking the three points when it was there.

I would suggest that you and I probably have a very different definition of what a GREAT Team is. The Redskins came CLOSE to having one in 1991. The Dolphins have come the closest of anyone over time with their undefeated season. A GREAT Team must have the mentality to decimate their enemy AT ALL TIMES. They must strive to be perfect. It's probably an unreachable goal, but for teams like the post 1991-92 Washington Redskins who don't even bother to attempt it, there is little to no respect from me and never will be.

Sooo... are you saying that the 91 'Skins and the '72 Dolphins weren't great teams... just "close"? Are you serious??? That's what you seem to say. Wow... that's a serious standard!

Striving for perfection doesn't mean not taking field goals inside the 10...


PS... I thought you were done...

Yeah...Fanatic is wishy washy........ if you're done....GO, be gone...!

Countertrey wrote:

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:But that doesn't explain why many winners in the league — in fact, ALL OF THEM — have that "mentality." There isn't a single team in the history of the NFL that just refused to kick field goals once they got inside the 10. In fact, all of the great teams won many of their games by taking the three points when it was there.

I would suggest that you and I probably have a very different definition of what a GREAT Team is. The Redskins came CLOSE to having one in 1991. The Dolphins have come the closest of anyone over time with their undefeated season. A GREAT Team must have the mentality to decimate their enemy AT ALL TIMES. They must strive to be perfect. It's probably an unreachable goal, but for teams like the post 1991-92 Washington Redskins who don't even bother to attempt it, there is little to no respect from me and never will be.

Sooo... are you saying that the 91 'Skins and the '72 Dolphins weren't great teams... just "close"? Are you serious??? That's what you seem to say. Wow... that's a serious standard!

Striving for perfection doesn't mean not taking field goals inside the 10...


PS... I thought you were done...

And I say Sonny J would have cut the '72 Dolphins into little pieces if he had played...Kilmer threw how many INTs in the endzone? Two? Each after a long drive, right?

(It still annoys me!)

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:yea, the skins don't care though. There are plenty of decent FA kickers every year and they never get one.

If that's true, why is Suisham an active kicker?

What does Suisham have to do with it? he stinks. I'm talking about guys like Graham, Tynes, and Cundiff that they could have brought in. Just to name a few. There are plenty every year.

My point is, if they are so great, and so much better than Suisham, why is he on a roster while they aren't?

They are on rosters, but people weren't exactly knocking down their door trying to sign em, the skins could have one if they wanted.

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:yea, the skins don't care though. There are plenty of decent FA kickers every year and they never get one.

If that's true, why is Suisham an active kicker?

What does Suisham have to do with it? he stinks. I'm talking about guys like Graham, Tynes, and Cundiff that they could have brought in. Just to name a few. There are plenty every year.

My point is, if they are so great, and so much better than Suisham, why is he on a roster while they aren't?

Cundiff is on my fantasy roster.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Striving for perfection doesn't mean not taking field goals inside the 10...

Striving for Perfection means not having to consider kicking fieldgoals in side the 10 because you know that with four downs your team can punch the ball into the end zone; or at worst your defense will hold if you do turn the ball over on downs that deep in the opponent's end of the field.

You are suggesting playing percentages that are laughable at the pro level. What you suggest is actually a good idea at the high school level. Here is a guy who does it very successfully (at the high school level).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... index.html

So in an attempt to attack the post and not the poster - WHAT YOU SUGGEST IS IDIOTIC.

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:yea, the skins don't care though. There are plenty of decent FA kickers every year and they never get one.

If that's true, why is Suisham an active kicker?

What does Suisham have to do with it? he stinks. I'm talking about guys like Graham, Tynes, and Cundiff that they could have brought in. Just to name a few. There are plenty every year.

My point is, if they are so great, and so much better than Suisham, why is he on a roster while they aren't?

Cundiff is on my fantasy roster.

It's too bad you can't short a kicker, Gano would be a money tree

DarthMonk wrote:So in an attempt to attack the post and not the poster - WHAT YOU SUGGEST IS IDIOTIC.

Idiotic or not it's what I believe, what I always have believed and what I always will believe. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but it is what it is.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:So in an attempt to attack the post and not the poster - WHAT YOU SUGGEST IS IDIOTIC.

Idiotic or not it's what I believe, what I always have believed and what I always will believe. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but it is what it is.

It would also prevent us from ever signing a NFL level head coach or a quality free agent. Though I concede we'd never miss another field goal again and it'd open up a roster spot most teams don't have. Do quality teams ever punt?

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:I don't engage in competitive endeavours in my life because I know I can't maintain that standard.

Hey brother, Are you trying to lecture a Team in one of the most competitive leagues in the world how to be competitive if you, yourself, run away from competition?

It reminds me of the vast amount of parents who lecture their kids, very often interfering negatively with the advice of a real coach, about how to be competitive and taking the next steps to improve when they have NEVER been at the level of competition of their own children.

Let me give you a hint:

Competition is always measured against YOURSELF. You compete against YOURSELF always. Win or lose, if you improved, you are better off. You remain HUMBLE at all times knowing that you do not and cannot control what the competition does. You only control what you do and how you improve EVERY time.

Perfection??? What a laugh !!! Anybody in any activity in any sport in any endeavour KNOWS that perfection is not human.

Look man, I am one of the most competitive persons you will ever find:

twice national sports champion, competitive at work, competitive in my hobbies (3rd place ina national tournament in Canada recently), competitive in real life scenarios where second place does not get you a silver medal but gets you pretty well done, and competitive even in the darn Hognostications!

Let me tell you: if ANYBODY tells you that they achieved perfection, they lied. Anybody and every body that aims for it knows that even in the best of scenarios, perfection is a goal never reached.

Once you make the realisation of this FACT, you are beginning to get ready to be competitive.

CanesSkins26 wrote:No surprise here. I've been watching FSU kickers choke away games for years

LoL Cane, that is just wrong.

I kinda miss the red snapper, whoever said it, that we'll miss him if something goes wrong on Spec Teams, he/she was right.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:It would also prevent us from ever signing a NFL level head coach or a quality free agent. Though I concede we'd never miss another field goal again and it'd open up a roster spot most teams don't have. Do quality teams ever punt?

I would suggest we haven't signed a quality NFL Head Coach or Free Agent in a number of years anyway, so what would be the difference?

You'd still need a PK for Kickoffs.

I'm definitely not a fan of punting in a lot of short yardage situations inside say the opponent's 35 yard line, but it's something that needs to be done much more often than kicking field goals.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:So in an attempt to attack the post and not the poster - WHAT YOU SUGGEST IS IDIOTIC.

Idiotic or not it's what I believe, what I always have believed and what I always will believe. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but it is what it is.

It would also prevent us from ever signing a NFL level head coach or a quality free agent. Though I concede we'd never miss another field goal again and it'd open up a roster spot most teams don't have. Do quality teams ever punt?

Maybe, but they never kick the PAT; they always go for two.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Competition is always measured against YOURSELF. You compete against YOURSELF always. Win or lose, if you improved, you are better off. You remain HUMBLE at all times knowing that you do not and cannot control what the competition does. You only control what you do and how you improve EVERY time.

Unfortunately even when I compete against myself I generally LOSE, so that's something I avoid. I have no patience or interest in enduring the hard times to get better in the end. That's never been something I've seen any value in.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Competition is always measured against YOURSELF. You compete against YOURSELF always. Win or lose, if you improved, you are better off. You remain HUMBLE at all times knowing that you do not and cannot control what the competition does. You only control what you do and how you improve EVERY time.

Unfortunately even when I compete against myself I generally LOSE, so that's something I avoid. I have no patience or interest in enduring the hard times to get better in the end. That's never been something I've seen any value in.