Washington gets either a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick from New Orleans to complete deal for OT Jammal Brown Philadelphia will receive Washington's 3rd round pick and New Orleans will get the Redskins 4th round pick if the Redskins either win 9 games or make to the playoffs this coming season or if QB Donovan McNabb is voted to the Pro Bowl. If those conditions aren't met then New Orleans will get the Redskins 3rd round pick Philadelphia gets their 4th round pick. If New Orleans gets Washington's 3rd round pick then the Redskins will get a 5th rounder to complete the deal. If the Saints only get the Redskins 4th round pick then Washington gets a 6th or 7th rounder to complete the deal
Washington has an undisclosed pick from Indianapolis - CB Justin Tyron
Since D-Nabb isn't going to the Pro Bowl and we aren't making the playoffs, we will receive the Saints 5th round pick from the Jammal Brown trade.
We will probably get a 6th rounder from the Colts for Tryon.
So here's the list of picks for 2011's Draft:
1 2 5 5 6 6 7
Possibly more 6th or 7th rounders with the supplemental picks...Ladell Betts, Antwaan Randle El, Todd Collins, Rock Cartwright.
thanks for the comprehensive explanation!
You're welcome, I am always trying to figure the draft pick mess out. When I went to the wikipedia site about the Skins' previous drafts, it was kinda of depressing to see how few of draft picks we have had/used in the past 10 years...YIKES!
Kilmer72 wrote:Because we have switched to the 34 and had many holes to fill on offense alone, are we looking at many years to repair the damage that was done done to OUR team? The way I see it; we have put ourselves in a position. We have to spend draft picks on veterans to plug holes on both sides. I am not trying to be doom and gloom but let us think about it. How soon can things be done? You guys know where I stand. I think we made a mistake, and the 34 that we aren't suited for has made a bigger problem than was necessary. So, honestly, when do you really think we can have the type of team to contend for a championship? The way I see it we will have to mortgage our future for some time. Can someone explain how we can get this done in just a few years?
Are you describing our economy or the team? Seems like if you substituted a few words, it would apply to our economy as well.
As for the rebuild, will there be a lockout next year? If so, we win the super bowl next year. Isn't that the norm?
Washington gets either a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick from New Orleans to complete deal for OT Jammal Brown Philadelphia will receive Washington's 3rd round pick and New Orleans will get the Redskins 4th round pick if the Redskins either win 9 games or make to the playoffs this coming season or if QB Donovan McNabb is voted to the Pro Bowl. If those conditions aren't met then New Orleans will get the Redskins 3rd round pick Philadelphia gets their 4th round pick. If New Orleans gets Washington's 3rd round pick then the Redskins will get a 5th rounder to complete the deal. If the Saints only get the Redskins 4th round pick then Washington gets a 6th or 7th rounder to complete the deal
Washington has an undisclosed pick from Indianapolis - CB Justin Tyron
Since D-Nabb isn't going to the Pro Bowl and we aren't making the playoffs, we will receive the Saints 5th round pick from the Jammal Brown trade.
We will probably get a 6th rounder from the Colts for Tryon.
So here's the list of picks for 2011's Draft:
1 2 5 5 6 6 7
Possibly more 6th or 7th rounders with the supplemental picks...Ladell Betts, Antwaan Randle El, Todd Collins, Rock Cartwright.
It was my stupidity. I kept thinking that we had spent this up in coming 2nd round draft pick and not our last. I forgot. We are sitting better, but that 2nd round pick that was spent, still hurt for what we have in return. Some think that #5 might not even be here next year, but we shall see. At least it is in the past. I do feel better. Sorry I freaked but I was thinking no 2nd and 3rd and 4rth this year.
skins2357 wrote:Here's what I do to fix the O Line this offseason....
LT - Nothing. Williams will be a stud in this league LG - Sign Logan Mankins. That left side becomes GREAT instantly C - 2nd rounder. I would rather trade down, and pick Wiesnewski late in the 1st, but that might not happen. You should be able to get a guy like Pouncey in the 2nd for Center. Maybe Wiesnewski slides down RG - Sign Davin Joseph. He is currently on IR for the BUCS, but he is young and might be had cheap coming off an injury, plus has potential. RT - Keep Brown. Resign him to a 2 yr deal with alot of incentives based on play on health. See how he does when healthy.
Yes you spend alot of money on the O Line, but I would not rather spend it anywhere else. That is what this team needs. Then use the draft for the 3-4 defense.
1st rounder - Adrian Claiborne. 290 lb pass rushing DE, played a 4-3 in college but at 6'3 290 lbs you would think he can hold up in a 3-4.
2nd Rounder - OLB. We need a pass rusher opposite of RAK desperatly.
The rest of the draft work on O Line depth and D Line, but you cant expect these picks to be starters. But our 1st and 2nd rounder should absolutely be starters next year.
Wish we had 2 2nd round draft picks next year!
What makes me sick is the Patriots have 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and 2 3rds next year. That's just unfair.
welch wrote:My hunch is that the team goes 8-8 next season, and 10-6 the year after. Lots of 2010 players will not make opening day roster next in 2011; same process the season after.
Maybe add one more mediocre season, but remember that Gibbs made the playoffs in '05 after being handed a worse collection of players from Spurrier.
What he did, in retrospect, looks more and more impressive IMO. In 2004 we didn't know the full extent of how bad Snyder and Cerrato were as a combination, nor could we know how well Gibbs was able to keep them at bay while he ran the team.
I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
welch wrote:My hunch is that the team goes 8-8 next season, and 10-6 the year after. Lots of 2010 players will not make opening day roster next in 2011; same process the season after.
Maybe add one more mediocre season, but remember that Gibbs made the playoffs in '05 after being handed a worse collection of players from Spurrier.
What he did, in retrospect, looks more and more impressive IMO. In 2004 we didn't know the full extent of how bad Snyder and Cerrato were as a combination, nor could we know how well Gibbs was able to keep them at bay while he ran the team.
I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
Everyone said the game had passed him by, but there are still the fundamentals of a winning team that he still knew. Great O-line + Great D-line = playoff team.
Miss you 21
12/17/09 - Ding Dong the Witch is Dead...Which Old Witch? The Wicked Witch.
Irn-Bru wrote:I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
Everyone said the game had passed him by, but there are still the fundamentals of a winning team that he still knew. Great O-line + Great D-line = playoff team.
They did say that, this is towards them not you. First, that argument that he inherited a college level coached team with players picked by Danny and Vinnie to the playoffs 2 of 4 years and the game had passed him by is just inherently a stupid argument.
But even that misses the reality that a HC is a management position. Other then Marty they don't actually micromanage all the players and coaches on the team and the whole concept of it passing him by as even being relevant is a stupid argument.
Hail to the Redskins!
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him
Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Irn-Bru wrote:I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
Everyone said the game had passed him by, but there are still the fundamentals of a winning team that he still knew. Great O-line + Great D-line = playoff team.
They did say that, this is towards them not you. First, that argument that he inherited a college level coached team with players picked by Danny and Vinnie to the playoffs 2 of 4 years and the game had passed him by is just inherently a stupid argument.
But even that misses the reality that a HC is a management position. Other then Marty they don't actually micromanage all the players and coaches on the team and the whole concept of it passing him by as even being relevant is a stupid argument.
Also think Gibbs started to teach Snyder how to be an owner. Too bad he wasn't here for another year so that Vinny didn't get back into his ear. That whole Zorn thing was a debacle that I pin Vinny alone. If Vinny ever steps foot in this facility again, I will throw in the towel until he is gone.
Miss you 21
12/17/09 - Ding Dong the Witch is Dead...Which Old Witch? The Wicked Witch.
Washington gets either a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick from New Orleans to complete deal for OT Jammal Brown Philadelphia will receive Washington's 3rd round pick and New Orleans will get the Redskins 4th round pick if the Redskins either win 9 games or make to the playoffs this coming season or if QB Donovan McNabb is voted to the Pro Bowl. If those conditions aren't met then New Orleans will get the Redskins 3rd round pick Philadelphia gets their 4th round pick. If New Orleans gets Washington's 3rd round pick then the Redskins will get a 5th rounder to complete the deal. If the Saints only get the Redskins 4th round pick then Washington gets a 6th or 7th rounder to complete the deal
Washington has an undisclosed pick from Indianapolis - CB Justin Tyron
Since D-Nabb isn't going to the Pro Bowl and we aren't making the playoffs, we will receive the Saints 5th round pick from the Jammal Brown trade.
We will probably get a 6th rounder from the Colts for Tryon.
So here's the list of picks for 2011's Draft:
1 2 5 5 6 6 7
Possibly more 6th or 7th rounders with the supplemental picks...Ladell Betts, Antwaan Randle El, Todd Collins, Rock Cartwright.
Correct if I am wrong, but I read that there are no supplemental picks for players who were released. Supplemental picks are for players who leave via free agency while still on the roster. All of the above were released.
I have not seen in this thread (may have missed it) that next year is an uncapped year and thus it is a dream come true for Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan.
The FA class which becomes available at the end of this year is SOLID and DEEP. We will be VERY different next year.
As long as the current Skins know that they are playing for THEIR jobs this year, I am fine.
I will be better still knowing that Snyder is kept far and away of any decisions and Vinny does not whisper venom into his ears.
Oh, I forgot! Winning season for 2011. Playoffs for 2012. I will leave it at that for the moment.
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans for over a decade and a half. Stay away from football operations !!!
Snout wrote: (1) Signing up free agents is not a bad thing. The problem is that in recent years we have gone for the biggest names and paid the fattest salaries. It would be better to use free agency to sign blue collar players.
Great point! Blue collar free agents that buy into Shanny's work ethic. Like the old Plan B free agents that helped us win Super Bowls in the past.
Irn-Bru wrote:I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
Yeah, I was mystified by that move. It was our D that had sucked the previous year, and we went out and got a new OC?
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Irn-Bru wrote:I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
Everyone said the game had passed him by, but there are still the fundamentals of a winning team that he still knew. Great O-line + Great D-line = playoff team.
They did say that, this is towards them not you. First, that argument that he inherited a college level coached team with players picked by Danny and Vinnie to the playoffs 2 of 4 years and the game had passed him by is just inherently a stupid argument.
But even that misses the reality that a HC is a management position. Other then Marty they don't actually micromanage all the players and coaches on the team and the whole concept of it passing him by as even being relevant is a stupid argument.
Also think Gibbs started to teach Snyder how to be an owner. Too bad he wasn't here for another year so that Vinny didn't get back into his ear. That whole Zorn thing was a debacle that I pin Vinny alone. If Vinny ever steps foot in this facility again, I will throw in the towel until he is gone.
Hate to break it to you, but Vinny never left. He is still on the Redskins payroll.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Irn-Bru wrote:I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
Yeah, I was mystified by that move. It was our D that had sucked the previous year, and we went out and got a new OC?
100% Snyder. You'll notice that Gibbs never fully handed things over to Saunders. It was an unhappy combination, to be sure . . . which is why I wish Gibbs could have retained full control.
Deadskins wrote:Hate to break it to you, but Vinny never left. He is still on the Redskins payroll.
Yeah, but he has the cushiest job in America. I think he's basically being paid to keep quiet and as a kind of apology for what happened to his Six Flags investment (:lol:).
good offensive line and good defensive line with good depth
a FO like we have now
we are getting there but I find it hard to believe that it will take more than 3 years and it certainly will not take 5
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Don't be ridiculous. This isn't the MLB, we don't need to wait 3-4 years for rookies to work their way through the minors. In the NFL even the worst team in the league could become a contender in 3 seasons with competent management.
Every season you're going to get 7 draft picks and a chance to sign free agents in addition to the top talent on even the worst rosters. I firmly believe that with a consistent approach to team building you can turn a moribund franchise into a division winner in just a few years.
The reason teams wallow in mediocrity is because of poor management. There are a lot of teams without a strong personnel figure. It's usually an over matched coach trying to make roster decisions on top of his coaching duties or a committee of people with no central figure. Not having a strong GM would be laughable in any other sport, yet in football, it's commonplace.
Other reasons are lack of patience. The NFL truly does stand for "Not For Long." You go through the trouble of hiring a coach or a GM. There's a lengthy selection process, you hold a press conference... then you usually give him 1-2 seasons and if you're not 100% satisfied. They're gone. Look at the Redskins last few coaches:
2001 Marty Schottenheimer Coach Marty had a plan in place, get rid of the high priced veterans who weren't contributing to his system and start building a team of players who fit his style of play. In many ways he may have had the most vision of any coach we've had in the Snyder era. He was fired after the season because Dan Snyder is a brat who grew impatient and didn't like the way Marty was handling his new toy.
2002-2003 Steve Spurrier This was a case of bad management. Spurrier had a history of churning out sub average professionals at Florida so whatever convinced Snyder he was a NFL coach is beyond me. It failed spectacularly. Spurrier's draft picks were busts, he brought in Florida re-treads and generally had no idea of how to build a professional team.
2004-2007 Joe Gibbs Gibbs did help bring some credibility back to the team in his second term... but mostly because he couldn't have done any worse than Spurrier. He made several questionable moves in the personnel department, including his first act as head coach. Shipping a 3rd rounder for the soon to be released Mark Brunell. Gibbs/Cerrato and others in the front office were unable to build a deep team that was capable of consistent success in the NFL and their pick of Jason Campbell (second 1st round QB selected by the Skins in 3 years) was a flop... either because of lack of talent around him or his just being terrible. Depends on who you ask. Ultimately Gibbs II was a failure and he failed to have a consistent approach to building a winner.
2008-2009 Jim Zorn The story is that Zorn was going to be hired on as Jim Fassel's offensive coordinator but that Snyder bowed to fan pressure and passed on Fassel. If that was truly the case... and I believe it is, then that's just another example of horrible management. Fassel seemed to be a great candidate to me, but instead we thrust a weak QB coach in there who had never ran an NFL offense before, much less an entire team. This also gave a lot more personnel control to Vinny Cerrato and both drafts in this era were near disasters for the Redskins. Only 7 out of 16 players drafted in 2008 and 2009 are still with the team, and only one (Orakpo) has made any real impact. This period was a disaster for the Skins.
Which all brings us to Mike Shanahan. The Redskins were a bloody mess when he got here. He has traded too many picks IMO and made the team older, but Rome wasn't built in a day. He may be the one who's capable of building this team along with Allen. When Shanahan went to Denver in 1995 the team was not great. They had John Elway, Shannon Sharpe and Gary Zimmerman on offense. Shanny drafted Terrell Davis, promoted Tom Nalen, signed Mark Schlereth, Ed McCaffrey and others. He even signed star wideout Rod Smith as an undrafted free agent.
By 1996 the Broncos had gone 13-3. They won the Super Bowl in '97 and '98. This guy knows teambuilding. I can't say we're going to have a turnaround that's this fast... but it appears we're on the right path.
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
this franchise is now under the control of very different people and the NFL is very different
past tense does not apply and history has no relevance
we will get better because NFL guys that know what they are doing are in charge here - that's all that matters
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Irn-Bru wrote:I still wonder whether we would have been better off if Gibbs hadn't caved on bringing in Saunders. I suspect we would have had a smoother few years with Gibbs as HC and OC.
Everyone said the game had passed him by, but there are still the fundamentals of a winning team that he still knew. Great O-line + Great D-line = playoff team.
They did say that, this is towards them not you. First, that argument that he inherited a college level coached team with players picked by Danny and Vinnie to the playoffs 2 of 4 years and the game had passed him by is just inherently a stupid argument.
But even that misses the reality that a HC is a management position. Other then Marty they don't actually micromanage all the players and coaches on the team and the whole concept of it passing him by as even being relevant is a stupid argument.
Also think Gibbs started to teach Snyder how to be an owner. Too bad he wasn't here for another year so that Vinny didn't get back into his ear. That whole Zorn thing was a debacle that I pin Vinny alone. If Vinny ever steps foot in this facility again, I will throw in the towel until he is gone.
Hate to break it to you, but Vinny never left. He is still on the Redskins payroll.
Paid with hush money. The guy would make a killing writing a book at this point, although I would pirate it so no money went into his pocket
Miss you 21
12/17/09 - Ding Dong the Witch is Dead...Which Old Witch? The Wicked Witch.
