The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Not, but he should also be putting players in the best position to succeed. Trying to stick a bunch of players that are best suited for a 4-3 into a 3-4 defense is a joke.

What's a joke was our 4-3 defense last year. I've been begging for this team to move to the 3-4 for quite a while. It will take some time tomcgange mentalities and players but I'm a much bigger fan of the 3-4 and always will be.... If it's run properly. Haslet needs to take the training wheels off this thingand get aggressive for it to work.

Thought you were done...

I see ZERO progress and I don't see the guys getting on board. I see piss poor tackling. I see lack of talent. I see lack of effort. Two of the three should be able to be rallied by Shanahan and co, but it's not. That's why Shanahan doesn't get any slack with me.

+1

Firstly, Something was said in the locker room at half because we saw two defenses in this weekends game. Shannahan doesn't make a tackle. Haslett doesn't make a tackle so until they do and I see player's being put in position to make a play - and they don't - then I'm not going to come down hard on the coaches. Player's make plays. Coaches put player's in position to make those plays. That's it.

About time.

frankcal20 wrote:Firstly, Something was said in the locker room at half because we saw two defenses in this weekends game. Shannahan doesn't make a tackle. Haslett doesn't make a tackle so until they do and I see player's being put in position to make a play - and they don't - then I'm not going to come down hard on the coaches. Player's make plays. Coaches put player's in position to make those plays. That's it.

So you are saying that coaches have no influence on how the players play? And specifically for Haslett, he IS, in fact, the one that puts those guy in the scheme (also considered position) to make those plays. He is, after all, the defensive coordinator. Or am I misunderstanding the defensive coordinator's responisbilities?

I never wanted the Skins to trade for this guy, and I remained pretty skeptical when he came into town.

Still hoped for the best, but I can't say any of this has surprised me in the least. The man has been a heartless, me-first cancer from the first day on. I hope he enjoys the $40 million he managed to squeeze out of this franchise. I could probably name 10 players off the top of my head who have made less than 10% of what Haynesworth has but who have contributed much, much more to the team over these last couple of years.

A coach develops a game plan each week. A coach works with player's during the week to put them in the right position for the coming game. Of course coaches have influence on how player's play but coaches can not make a guy try to tackle a guy like Jacobs up around the shoulders like Rocky did this Sunday. If you look at Sunday's game, especially in the 1st half, the player's were in position to make the play but they didn't. What else can any coach do. Well, there is one thing he can do and that's put that player on the bench. See Phillip Buchanan and Rocky who were both benched for either the entire or part of the game for CRAP play and lack of tackling fundamentals.

This was a smart move as opposed to just cutting him. The team knows there is another team that may still be in the playoff hunt that would sign Haynesworth. The suspension keeps him from getting paid again and possibly go to the playoffs. That's not going to happen. He isn't going to get rewarded for his bad behavior. He will get cut after the season has ended.

frankcal20 wrote:A coach develops a game plan each week. A coach works with player's during the week to put them in the right position for the coming game. Of course coaches have influence on how player's play but coaches can not make a guy try to tackle a guy like Jacobs up around the shoulders like Rocky did this Sunday. If you look at Sunday's game, especially in the 1st half, the player's were in position to make the play but they didn't. What else can any coach do. Well, there is one thing he can do and that's put that player on the bench. See Phillip Buchanan and Rocky who were both benched for either the entire or part of the game for CRAP play and lack of tackling fundamentals.

And the coach doesn't instill and reinforce those tackling fundementals?

And I thought Buchanon was hurt.<edit> you're right, he was benched.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:A coach develops a game plan each week. A coach works with player's during the week to put them in the right position for the coming game. Of course coaches have influence on how player's play but coaches can not make a guy try to tackle a guy like Jacobs up around the shoulders like Rocky did this Sunday. If you look at Sunday's game, especially in the 1st half, the player's were in position to make the play but they didn't. What else can any coach do. Well, there is one thing he can do and that's put that player on the bench. See Phillip Buchanan and Rocky who were both benched for either the entire or part of the game for CRAP play and lack of tackling fundamentals.

And the coach doesn't instill and reinforce those tackling fundementals?

And I thought Buchanon was hurt.<edit> you're right, he was benched.

Sure the coach teaches fundamentals but let me ask you this. Should a coach be teaching professional football players how to tackle at this point? Most have been playing for 20+ years. I would hope that they would know how to tackle at this point. I'm sure at video session yesterday, players saw how pathetic they looked trying to tackle and I'm sorry but I'm not putting that on the coaches.

frankcal20 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:A coach develops a game plan each week. A coach works with player's during the week to put them in the right position for the coming game. Of course coaches have influence on how player's play but coaches can not make a guy try to tackle a guy like Jacobs up around the shoulders like Rocky did this Sunday. If you look at Sunday's game, especially in the 1st half, the player's were in position to make the play but they didn't. What else can any coach do. Well, there is one thing he can do and that's put that player on the bench. See Phillip Buchanan and Rocky who were both benched for either the entire or part of the game for CRAP play and lack of tackling fundamentals.

And the coach doesn't instill and reinforce those tackling fundementals?

And I thought Buchanon was hurt.<edit> you're right, he was benched.

Sure the coach teaches fundamentals but let me ask you this. Should a coach be teaching professional football players how to tackle at this point? Most have been playing for 20+ years. I would hope that they would know how to tackle at this point. I'm sure at video session yesterday, players saw how pathetic they looked trying to tackle and I'm sorry but I'm not putting that on the coaches.

It's the coaches' jobs to ensure that the standards are upheld.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:A coach develops a game plan each week. A coach works with player's during the week to put them in the right position for the coming game. Of course coaches have influence on how player's play but coaches can not make a guy try to tackle a guy like Jacobs up around the shoulders like Rocky did this Sunday. If you look at Sunday's game, especially in the 1st half, the player's were in position to make the play but they didn't. What else can any coach do. Well, there is one thing he can do and that's put that player on the bench. See Phillip Buchanan and Rocky who were both benched for either the entire or part of the game for CRAP play and lack of tackling fundamentals.

And the coach doesn't instill and reinforce those tackling fundementals?

And I thought Buchanon was hurt.<edit> you're right, he was benched.

Sure the coach teaches fundamentals but let me ask you this. Should a coach be teaching professional football players how to tackle at this point? Most have been playing for 20+ years. I would hope that they would know how to tackle at this point. I'm sure at video session yesterday, players saw how pathetic they looked trying to tackle and I'm sorry but I'm not putting that on the coaches.

It's the coaches' jobs to ensure that the standards are upheld.

And that's why those players, Haynesworth included were removed from the game. You also can't bench the majority of your team b/c they were not playing correctly only because you wouldn't have enough players to play. And I'm sure if they did, you'd have a problem with them not putting the best players on the field.

frankcal20 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:A coach develops a game plan each week. A coach works with player's during the week to put them in the right position for the coming game. Of course coaches have influence on how player's play but coaches can not make a guy try to tackle a guy like Jacobs up around the shoulders like Rocky did this Sunday. If you look at Sunday's game, especially in the 1st half, the player's were in position to make the play but they didn't. What else can any coach do. Well, there is one thing he can do and that's put that player on the bench. See Phillip Buchanan and Rocky who were both benched for either the entire or part of the game for CRAP play and lack of tackling fundamentals.

And the coach doesn't instill and reinforce those tackling fundementals?

And I thought Buchanon was hurt.<edit> you're right, he was benched.

Sure the coach teaches fundamentals but let me ask you this. Should a coach be teaching professional football players how to tackle at this point? Most have been playing for 20+ years. I would hope that they would know how to tackle at this point. I'm sure at video session yesterday, players saw how pathetic they looked trying to tackle and I'm sorry but I'm not putting that on the coaches.

It's the coaches' jobs to ensure that the standards are upheld.

And that's why those players, Haynesworth included were removed from the game. You also can't bench the majority of your team b/c they were not playing correctly only because you wouldn't have enough players to play. And I'm sure if they did, you'd have a problem with them not putting the best players on the field.

If you have individual faults, it falls on the indvidual. If you have fundemental faults, it falls on management. And the coaches are management. That's my point. I don't want to go back and forth on this anymore, so until something new is introduced into the thread, I'm done. Always nice debating with ya Frank!

frankcal20 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:A coach develops a game plan each week. A coach works with player's during the week to put them in the right position for the coming game. Of course coaches have influence on how player's play but coaches can not make a guy try to tackle a guy like Jacobs up around the shoulders like Rocky did this Sunday. If you look at Sunday's game, especially in the 1st half, the player's were in position to make the play but they didn't. What else can any coach do. Well, there is one thing he can do and that's put that player on the bench. See Phillip Buchanan and Rocky who were both benched for either the entire or part of the game for CRAP play and lack of tackling fundamentals.

And the coach doesn't instill and reinforce those tackling fundementals?

And I thought Buchanon was hurt.<edit> you're right, he was benched.

Sure the coach teaches fundamentals but let me ask you this. Should a coach be teaching professional football players how to tackle at this point? Most have been playing for 20+ years. I would hope that they would know how to tackle at this point. I'm sure at video session yesterday, players saw how pathetic they looked trying to tackle and I'm sorry but I'm not putting that on the coaches.

Actually, yes. There are LOTS of players that come out of college with weak fundamentals. In college a lot of this kids, like Landry for example, can get by on pure athleticism, which they can't do in the NFL.

Sure some players don't have perfect fundamentals but tackling shouldn't be one of them. Especially a player who has been in the league for a few years.

Dumping Haynesworth might be the right move, but there's absolutely no way the NFLPA lets us keep his game checks for a month.

frankcal20 wrote:Yeah I don't really see why Shanahan is at fault outside of us not doing this a long time ago. Now, i think that if we trade him after the season, we won't really generate any more compensation than we would've earlier this season based off the controversy we already had going on. But this isn't over by any means and we'll all be living it up like it's the best episode of "Days of our Lives."

The day the Redskins hired Shanahan I told a Redskins fan that this was a mistake and it did not make sense. Shanahan did not handle this thing with Albert correctly. If this was such a problem then this should have been done a long time ago. I understand that there has to be discipline on this team but not just a few players but everybody needs to be held accountable. Week after week I see the same players on offense make the same mistakes over and over again and they aren't held accountable. Discipline is one thing and it's another when you alienate your players. You wonder why Albert doesn't want to speak to Shanahan, well how did Albert find out that he wouldn't be playing against the Giants. Shanahan gave the message to Albert through Haslett. I will say what I have been saying since training camp Shanahan ego will be the downfall of this team.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

blowwad wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm thru with Shanahan.

You're right. Suspend Shanahan and let AH coach the team.

What a stupid comment.

I'm thru with Shanahan b/c this has been a ego contest all along. Both of them. Both of them need to put the ego aside and get this damn team straight, but neither will.

Dude, what an ignorant statement.

Fat Al did NOT want to play!! We gave him a chance at the 4-3 last year and he complained about that staff and that system.

This year's excuse was the latest in a long line of excuses; they guy is simply a bum. Simple.

Get your cash and leave town and allow us to get on with our lives.

The thing that irks me with posters is that for 10 plus years now they have been clamoring for structure and discipline (could not get that with Cerrato) and now that we are trying to implement it, they cry, whine and complain.

So let's fire the dude and get on with rebuilding for next year.

Hail!

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Should Shanahan? He should just say "Y'know guys pratice is optional, and you don't have to run the plays you don't like?"

Not, but he should also be putting players in the best position to succeed. Trying to stick a bunch of players that are best suited for a 4-3 into a 3-4 defense is a joke.

So what was the problem last year? We played a 4-3 and yet Haynesworth was mouthing off to coaches and showing up late all the time. He can't have it both ways.

By the way, all of this change was announced to him before the season. He had the option to walk away. He agreed to stay in line. What a bum.

I don't think that we can come to a conclusion off of one season that was rattled with turmoil. Let's look at everything that went on.

1. Albert in training camp
2. Jason Campbell and the acquisition of McNabb.
3. Devin Thomas cut (good or bad, it was a disturbance)
4. Clinton Portis being injured
5. Lack of an offensive line

These are just some of the main issues I can think of that would make it hard for any team to be successful. I'm a 3 year guy. You have to give a coach 3 years to make a determination. Until then, I'm going to wait. Hell, we've all waited 10+ years for this team to be relevant, what's a few more.

So Cal Skin Dude wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

blowwad wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm thru with Shanahan.

You're right. Suspend Shanahan and let AH coach the team.

What a stupid comment.

I'm thru with Shanahan b/c this has been a ego contest all along. Both of them. Both of them need to put the ego aside and get this damn team straight, but neither will.

Dude, what an ignorant statement.

Fat Al did NOT want to play!! We gave him a chance at the 4-3 last year and he complained about that staff and that system.

This year's excuse was the latest in a long line of excuses; they guy is simply a bum. Simple.

Get your cash and leave town and allow us to get on with our lives.

The thing that irks me with posters is that for 10 plus years now they have been clamoring for structure and discipline (could not get that with Cerrato) and now that we are trying to implement it, they cry, whine and complain.

So let's fire the dude and get on with rebuilding for next year.

Hail!

I bet Schottenheimer could have gotten Al to play. Discipline doesn't have to come at the expense of motivation.

Schottenheimer couldn't get Jeff George to play and he was the starting QB. He broke down game film with him personally and STILL couldn't get through to George.

Sometimes you just get a bad egg... like Haynesworth

VetSkinsFan wrote:

blowwad wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm thru with Shanahan.

You're right. Suspend Shanahan and let AH coach the team.

What a stupid comment.

I'm thru with Shanahan b/c this has been a ego contest all along. Both of them. Both of them need to put the ego aside and get this damn team straight, but neither will.

Imagine a head coach who expects a member of his team to do his job. The height of gall. Shannahan's just lost it. This is clearly his fault. AH has every right to sit and expect Shannahan to motivate him and persuade him to do his job. This is completely on Mickey.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Dumping Haynesworth might be the right move, but there's absolutely no way the NFLPA lets us keep his game checks for a month.

I know what you're saying because it's tough to do this. But I predict they actually do because AH has just gone too far. His teammates have criticized him from training camp, that's far beyond a normal situation. AH is to the point of overt insubordination in an ongoing fashion. That's not good even for the NFLPA.

As ridiculed as Snyder is, I'm not in the DC area and everyone I hear is blaming Haynesworth for this. Snyder's not even getting a mention. That's pretty extreme.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Dumping Haynesworth might be the right move, but there's absolutely no way the NFLPA lets us keep his game checks for a month.

I know what you're saying because it's tough to do this. But I predict they actually do because AH has just gone too far. His teammates have criticized him from training camp, that's far beyond a normal situation. AH is to the point of overt insubordination in an ongoing fashion. That's not good even for the NFLPA.

As ridiculed as Snyder is, I'm not in the DC area and everyone I hear is blaming Haynesworth for this. Snyder's not even getting a mention. That's pretty extreme.

The NFLPA has already said that it's looking into this. They are certainly going to file a grievance on Big Al's behalf.