The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Here is a perfect example from Chris ey about the Redskins.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/11/29/184 ... past-years


Talks about all the turnover on the Roster and how nothing has been consistent for the Redskins and how the Team can't mold because of all the change. Cough,cough... caused by Dan Snyder and Vinny C. in my opinion

I know Time can fix this but lets just see how long Shanny and Bruce hang in there

No one suggested that Danny has no say whatsoever. If you thought that was my point (I can't speak for anyone else), then I'm sorry.

Danny still signs the check and does the high level operational Redskins stuff, but Shanahan and Allen appear to be running the football side (personnel, contracts, ect).

It's more plausible than years past at least, and we haven't seen a single issue of players running to the owner.

Bottom Line? We're just fans speculating and the real bottom line is...

IT IS WHAT IT IS CAUSE IT AIN'T WHAT IT AIN'T!

yes, I used a cliche and the made-up word "ain't"

langleyparkjoe wrote:Bottom Line? We're just fans speculating and the real bottom line is...

IT IS WHAT IT IS CAUSE IT AIN'T WHAT IT AIN'T!

yes, I used a cliche and the made-up word "ain't"

Yea something like that!

skinpride1 wrote:Sorry Kazoo but you are not making much sense on this one.

Danny Boy tried to run things and failed miserably. Vinny was his Puppet and Yes man. Jim Zorn was his Yes sir coach. How did that work out?

It worked out poorly and doesn't contradict my point. When they work together that means...

(a) Danny doesn't hand it off to Bruce and Shanny to run on their own...

And...here's the tricky part. This actually happens at the same time as (a)

(b) Danny doesn't run the show alone...

They work together. It's very complicated I realize, both those happening at the same time. But that is in fact the only way it would ever work. (a) and (b) at the same time, does that blow your mind or what?

VetSkinsFan wrote:No one suggested that Danny has no say whatsoever. If you thought that was my point (I can't speak for anyone else), then I'm sorry.

Danny still signs the check and does the high level operational Redskins stuff, but Shanahan and Allen appear to be running the football side (personnel, contracts, ect).

It's more plausible than years past at least, and we haven't seen a single issue of players running to the owner.

There are things that are Danny's for sure, like financing organizational operations. There are also things that Shanny/Bruce own, like workout procedures and the like. But there is middle ground as well that must be shared. For example, Bruce/Shanny can evaluate players, but Danny signs the contracts, they have to work together on what the budget it, what kinds of players they're going to go after, what the organizational philosophy is.

I'm not saying Danny's good at it, I'm saying he's not. I'm just saying he can't hand off the reins and walk away either, he has to learn to work with them or it won't work.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I'm not saying Danny's good at it, I'm saying he's not. I'm just saying he can't hand off the reins and walk away either, he has to learn to work with them or it won't work.

The way they all explain it, "the Danny" is pulling his own version of JKC. He hired a GM and a Head Coach and will only write the checks and break the ties when the two "football guys" can agree. One has final say on football operations, the other on the higher level stuff, Danny only steps in if they don't agree on something or someone. It explains why Shanny doesn't know what color pants the team wears on the regular bases and why Haynesworth is still here if Mike really wanted him gone. "the Danny" being "the Danny" made both of them Executive Vice Presidents so there would always be ties to break.

It not there yet but it's better than what we had for a Owner.

1niksder wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I'm not saying Danny's good at it, I'm saying he's not. I'm just saying he can't hand off the reins and walk away either, he has to learn to work with them or it won't work.

The way they all explain it, "the Danny" is pulling his own version of JKC. He hired a GM and a Head Coach and will only write the checks and break the ties when the two "football guys" can agree. One has final say on football operations, the other on the higher level stuff, Danny only steps in if they don't agree on something or someone. It explains why Shanny doesn't know what color pants the team wears on the regular bases and why Haynesworth is still here if Mike really wanted him gone. "the Danny" being "the Danny" made both of them Executive Vice Presidents so there would always be ties to break.

It not there yet but it's better than what we had for a Owner.

Who is they and where is a link to their explainations...

Mike doesn't know what pants they are going to wear? Well maybe because that's not part of his job description. It's Allen's. Come on dude.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:Sorry Kazoo but you are not making much sense on this one.

Danny Boy tried to run things and failed miserably. Vinny was his Puppet and Yes man. Jim Zorn was his Yes sir coach. How did that work out?

It worked out poorly and doesn't contradict my point. When they work together that means...

(a) Danny doesn't hand it off to Bruce and Shanny to run on their own...

And...here's the tricky part. This actually happens at the same time as (a)

(b) Danny doesn't run the show alone...

They work together. It's very complicated I realize, both those happening at the same time. But that is in fact the only way it would ever work. (a) and (b) at the same time, does that blow your mind or what?

No not really Kazoo what would blow my mind if Danny just got the hell out there way.

Sounds like from your other post you are a very successful at running your business and that Team work and management is the way to go.

I understand that perfectly from 15+ years working in a car dealership and having to work as a team to make things successful.

The problem that I ran into, is that when you have a person in high authority that is CLUELESS there is nothing you can do to help them.

You can't change them as much as you would like too and it sucks.

You are stuck being Mediocre and you realize there isn't much more potential that could happen because it can't. The one that owns the place is just to much of a ding-a-ling and everything is just to be in the middle because he is to stupid to realize he is the problem.

Just the same as Dan Snyder.

Sorry just don't see Dan changing and that's my point.

chiefhog44 wrote:Mike doesn't know what pants they are going to wear? Well maybe because that's not part of his job description. It's Allen's. Come on dude.

I pointed that out because Mike was asked about the switch to the gold pants and said he didn't know anything about what color the pants would be week to week, that it was Allen's job and it had nothing to do with getting the team ready to play. In other words he has a job to do and Bruce has a different job.

Oh yeah "They" would be Bruce and Mike, from press conferences that they have had. I'm sure you can find links to them on your own.

1niksder wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Mike doesn't know what pants they are going to wear? Well maybe because that's not part of his job description. It's Allen's. Come on dude.

I pointed that out because Mike was asked about the switch to the gold pants and said he didn't know anything about what color the pants would be week to week, that it was Allen's job and it had nothing to do with getting the team ready to play. In other words he has a job to do and Bruce has a different job.

Oh yeah "They" would be Bruce and Mike, from press conferences that they have had. I'm sure you can find links to them on your own.

I have never heard them say that. I'm not going to find the links because I don't believe they exist. If you find them to back up YOUR statement, then I will believe what you say, but it sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me.

You can believe what you want, if I get time I might look for them. But believe whatever you want

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:I'm not sold on the whole I'm going to let Shanny and Bruce run things

That's because it's preposterous. It's made up by people who hate Danny and know nothing about business. It would never work, it's ludicrous. No owner would, or should, turn over final decision making authority to anyone. You have to have a good staff and trust them. They need to be empowered to make decisions within the system and their scope of responsibility. But in the end the owner writes the checks and has the final say over the organizational objectives.

Danny is a bad manager and he needs to learn to manage better. The whole turning the reins over thing is preposterous. He doesn't need to be the expert in football, he just needs to learn to manage people who do. I own a design and print business as well as a restaurant. Last year I owned a childcare drop in center. I spent my career in management and management consulting working in financial services, energy, pharmaceutical, clothing retail and a variety of other businesses. I can't do the job of the people who work for my design firm, I don't need to. But I do need to be able to manage them. I trust their input in things they know that I don't, but I don't "hand the reins" over, and I never should.

I'm not saying they are running the whole franchise from top to bottom. Only the football operations but Danny will be Danny. You guys are funny.

A distinction without a difference. You said he needs to let Bruce and Shanny "run" things. It's that mutual exclusivity that I'm mocking and your reply isn't getting. They work together to "run things." You still think he does his thing and they do theirs. Not how it works or would ever work. I said he's a bad manager. It's that portrayal of letting them run things I'm saying makes no sense and you can laugh all you want, it still doesn't. He has to learn to manage, not stay out of it.

I don't know. Jack Kent Cooke pretty much stayed out of it, and he did pretty well.
In fact I think most of the successful franchises in the NFL have owners who stay out of the football operations.

Bottom Line?

We're at least 4 years away from having a good team. I thought it could happen sooner but we have too many holes. Just way too many.

By the time we patch the holes, the secured positions will be aging. ey, Landry, Orakpo won't be here to see it, or will be towards the end of their stints here.

1niksder wrote:You can believe what you want, if I get time I might look for them. But believe whatever you want

I've found that 1nik doesn't talk out his 4th point of contact. If there's 1 person I personally will believe without links, it's usually 1nik. And I recall that presser about the pants as well.

Deadskins wrote:I don't know. Jack Kent Cooke pretty much stayed out of it, and he did pretty well. In fact I think most of the successful franchises in the NFL have owners who stay out of the football operations.

No, he didn't. In my business I always make jokes about how I can't operate the equipment. I don't work in operations. But I watch everything and when there are issues I step right in. If you think JKC was the kind of guy who wasn't paying attention and ready to step in when things weren't operating per his wishes, you're really missing something.

I don't do operations in my company at all. Actually once in a while, I'll help out on big jobs doing the lowliest of tasks because I can't run the design software, I can't run a press, I can't run any of the bindery equipment. But I help out for big jobs to show we all do what's required to help out. But no one on my staff thinks I am not completely aware of whether things are operating per my exacting requirements for quality and cost consciousness or not. Setting operational requirements and objectives but not executing operations is not "staying out of operations."

That JKC was completely aware and set the agenda, but didn't mess with the actual execution of the operational plan unless he needed to step in actually is my point on effective management and not a rebuttal to it. My staff do what it takes to get the job done. They stay late or whatever they need to do without my asking them to. And when I do step in they understand why I'm doing it. There is an issue or something that I need to address. But other then that, they own their tasks. It's win win, I have harder working, more productive staff and they are empowered to run their own areas. But their areas must operate under my objectives. That's management.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Cooley, Landry, Orakpo won't be here to see it, or will be towards the end of their stints here.

?? It's going to take more than 4 years for that to be true of Orakpo. He could be in his prime when things are working for us . . .

Irn-Bru wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Cooley, Landry, Orakpo won't be here to see it, or will be towards the end of their stints here.

?? It's going to take more than 4 years for that to be true of Orakpo. He could be in his prime when things are working for us . . .

In 4 years he'll be 28! That's retirement age!

skins2357 wrote:People forget that when Gibbs came back, he inherited a terrible team and was 5-11 the 1st year. The second year I believe we made the playoffs.

This is Shannys 1st year and he inherited a TERRIBLE team. Give him time and lets see what happens. The worst thing Danny boy has ever done is buy all those overpriced bums in the past, not because of their play but bc of the expectations it started putting in peoples heads. WE ARE NOT A GOOD TEAM YET, PEOPLE STOP EXPECTING HIM TO PERFORM MIRACLES WITH THIS ROSTER!!!!!

Can't help but note that some of those overpriced bums are doing fine elsewhere. Jason Taylor for one. For another, Brandon Lloyd is leading the NFL as WR. Could it be that coaching was the problem?

crazyhorse1 wrote:

skins2357 wrote:People forget that when Gibbs came back, he inherited a terrible team and was 5-11 the 1st year. The second year I believe we made the playoffs.

This is Shannys 1st year and he inherited a TERRIBLE team. Give him time and lets see what happens. The worst thing Danny boy has ever done is buy all those overpriced bums in the past, not because of their play but bc of the expectations it started putting in peoples heads. WE ARE NOT A GOOD TEAM YET, PEOPLE STOP EXPECTING HIM TO PERFORM MIRACLES WITH THIS ROSTER!!!!!

Can't help but note that some of those overpriced bums are doing fine elsewhere. Jason Taylor for one. For another, Brandon Lloyd is leading the NFL as WR. Could it be that coaching was the problem?

Those are two perfect examples where the answer is no, coaching wasn't the problem

VetSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:You can believe what you want, if I get time I might look for them. But believe whatever you want

I've found that 1nik doesn't talk out his 4th point of contact. If there's 1 person I personally will believe without links, it's usually 1nik. And I recall that presser about the pants as well.

As much as I bang on the "Press" for making "stuff" up, why would I. I gave my sources by name, I didn't say "two high level sources within the organization with knowledge of the situation" like someone we all know. He even used Shanny's name when he wrote about it.

Shanahan said he wasn’t behind the Redskins not wearing gold pants against Green Bay. “I didn’t even know what color we wore … I’m not joking either,” he said. “If I started making decisions on what color jersey we wear, they should shoot me.”

The links are out there but I'm not posting them.
There's also "the Danny's" radio network, they have all of them.

Bruce Allen's statements were made on the air with the sports reporters. They have it in the vault, but Bruce talked for 2 hours. Believe it or not but anyone should be able to find that link, even if they're not looking.

No matter how bad he is, it's pretty tough to get a team owner fired...

1niksder wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:You can believe what you want, if I get time I might look for them. But believe whatever you want

I've found that 1nik doesn't talk out his 4th point of contact. If there's 1 person I personally will believe without links, it's usually 1nik. And I recall that presser about the pants as well.

As much as I bang on the "Press" for making "stuff" up, why would I. I gave my sources by name, I didn't say "two high level sources within the organization with knowledge of the situation" like someone we all know. He even used Shanny's name when he wrote about it.

Shanahan said he wasn’t behind the Redskins not wearing gold pants against Green Bay. “I didn’t even know what color we wore … I’m not joking either,” he said. “If I started making decisions on what color jersey we wear, they should shoot me.”

The links are out there but I'm not posting them.
There's also "the Danny's" radio network, they have all of them.

Bruce Allen's statements were made on the air with the sports reporters. They have it in the vault, but Bruce talked for 2 hours. Believe it or not but anyone should be able to find that link, even if they're not looking.

I was supporting you, relax.