The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

chiefhog44 wrote:Are you guys serious? Did you watch the game? Please give me examples of how his playcalling was suspect. I want specifics. Not just he should have called more bootlegs or whatever. And keep in mind the injury to Torain which left us with a undrafted rookie RB who has no concept of picking up blocking assignments (as evidenced on almost every blitz that he was in the game for). I expect this from some of you, but others, I thought more of your smarts

I laughed when the idiot game announcers made a big deal of losing Torian for blitz plickup. I thought what unprepared hacks! The announcers should have l known that KW has been the Skins 3rd down back almost all year! certainly since CP went down.

I guess I assumed anyone who had been paying attention to the Skins would know that. I guess I was wrong!

KW made the 53 man roster at the beginning of the season. Yea, I know he was released and signed to the practice squad, but he has never really 4TH string.

Back on subject. I think MS is covering for the fact his son is the one with the real problem with McNabb. I don't think the benching of #5 had anything to do with conditioning or him not knowing the plays. It was all about the two Shannys being unhappy with the QB play.

The high pass to ey that would have gone for a first down, following the drive with the INT into triple coverage, was the straw that broke Kyle's back!

As bad as this whole Shanny/Mcdrabb thing is, what's even worse is the QB isn't our problem....the O-line is. If Shanny can't see that as the HC, then he really has lost his marbles...

This is the stupidest theory ever.

riggofan wrote:This is the stupidest theory ever.

+10

skinsfan#33 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Are you guys serious? Did you watch the game? Please give me examples of how his playcalling was suspect. I want specifics. Not just he should have called more bootlegs or whatever. And keep in mind the injury to Torain which left us with a undrafted rookie RB who has no concept of picking up blocking assignments (as evidenced on almost every blitz that he was in the game for). I expect this from some of you, but others, I thought more of your smarts

I laughed when the idiot game announcers made a big deal of losing Torian for blitz plickup. I thought what unprepared hacks! The announcers should have l known that KW has been the Skins 3rd down back almost all year! certainly since CP went down.

I guess I assumed anyone who had been paying attention to the Skins would know that. I guess I was wrong!

KW made the 53 man roster at the beginning of the season. Yea, I know he was released and signed to the practice squad, but he has never really 4TH string.
!

I considered him 4th string at the beginning of the season behind Portis, Johnson, and Torain but whatever. Since you follow the games so closely, I don't have to tell you that if you watch the blitz packages while he is in the game, whether in this game or not, you would have realized that he has not been good at picking them up.

chiefhog44 wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Are you guys serious? Did you watch the game? Please give me examples of how his playcalling was suspect. I want specifics. Not just he should have called more bootlegs or whatever. And keep in mind the injury to Torain which left us with a undrafted rookie RB who has no concept of picking up blocking assignments (as evidenced on almost every blitz that he was in the game for). I expect this from some of you, but others, I thought more of your smarts

I laughed when the idiot game announcers made a big deal of losing Torian for blitz pickup. I thought what unprepared hacks! The announcers should have l known that KW has been the Skins 3rd down back almost all year! certainly since CP went down.

I guess I assumed anyone who had been paying attention to the Skins would know that. I guess I was wrong!

KW made the 53 man roster at the beginning of the season. Yea, I know he was released and signed to the practice squad, but he has never really 4TH string.
!

I considered him 4th string at the beginning of the season behind Portis, Johnson, and Torain but whatever. Since you follow the games so closely, I don't have to tell you that if you watch the blitz packages while he is in the game, whether in this game or not, you would have realized that he has not been good at picking them up.

He NEVER was behind CP, LJ and Torain at the same time! Torain was cut at the 53 man cut down. KW was behind CP and LJ. And then just CP. He was let go and brought back, but was never deeper than third and has been 2nd for a good chuck of the season!

The Skins kept KW over Torain at the start of the season primarily because he was a better pass protector - 3rd down back than Torain.

I'm not going to debate the fact that he may or may not be good at blitz pick up, my point was they have been counting on KW in third down and passing situation for most of the season. And the announcer didn't have a clue (and apparently they weren't alone!)

Kilmer72 wrote:

roybus14 wrote:The last time I checked offensive coordinators make adjustments to what the defense is doing just defensive coordinators make adjustments to what the offense is doing.

To me, both sides of the ball coordinators are suspect. Riddle me this: why would take a top 10 defense in the 4-3 scheme over the past three seasons and turn them into the 31st ranked defense in a 3-4??? Haslett's track record has not been stellar and this team has the athletes who thrived in the 4-3, so why change that?

Really though, you have to wonder how much Kubiak was involved in that Texans offense last year and how much of it was Kyle? Again, a good OC will adjust his play calling to the talent he has. If McNabb was getting killed from the start of the game, why go more shotgun and roll outs or even try the hurry up to get Detroit out of rhythm?

Sometimes the head coach has to make a stand. Like Gibbs did with Al Saunders. Sometimes the great coaches do this and then you have MS. He is way better as a coach than Zorn but not as in being forthcoming.

For example, we passed and passed and it wasn't working. Gibbs stepped in and said we need to run make that our staple. I am just guessing at this but this is pretty much on the mark.

Our trying to run the ball against the Lions was worse than pointless. We just couldn't do it, or we would have more often. Time and again I see postings about the virtues of running the ball, as if a determination to do it would solve something. It doesn't. No run blocking, no run. Simple as that. It's brutally obvious we do better passing than running. Sad, but true. Even with bad pass blocking and no run threat, McNabb hits fifty percent.

I thought Torrain was banged up in preseason and that's why he wasn't kept over Williams.

I think Vet is right, but I mean we're arguing over whether he was 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at one point. Whatever. When Portis went down and LJ was cut, I hope fans knew he was the 2nd string. That would be a bit telling

roybus14 wrote:The last time I checked offensive coordinators make adjustments to what the defense is doing just defensive coordinators make adjustments to what the offense is doing.

To me, both sides of the ball coordinators are suspect. Riddle me this: why would take a top 10 defense in the 4-3 scheme over the past three seasons and turn them into the 31st ranked defense in a 3-4??? Haslett's track record has not been stellar and this team has the athletes who thrived in the 4-3, so why change that?

Really though, you have to wonder how much Kubiak was involved in that Texans offense last year and how much of it was Kyle? Again, a good OC will adjust his play calling to the talent he has. If McNabb was getting killed from the start of the game, why go more shotgun and roll outs or even try the hurry up to get Detroit out of rhythm?

Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.

The Genius and his prodigy man-child OC intend to rectify this situation by working out Jamarcus Russell ... the epitome of fat, lazy and stupid.

Makes perfect sense to me

RayNAustin wrote:Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.

How do you come up with this nonsense ? Have you been in Texas too long ?

RayNAustin wrote:

roybus14 wrote:The last time I checked offensive coordinators make adjustments to what the defense is doing just defensive coordinators make adjustments to what the offense is doing.

To me, both sides of the ball coordinators are suspect. Riddle me this: why would take a top 10 defense in the 4-3 scheme over the past three seasons and turn them into the 31st ranked defense in a 3-4??? Haslett's track record has not been stellar and this team has the athletes who thrived in the 4-3, so why change that?

Really though, you have to wonder how much Kubiak was involved in that Texans offense last year and how much of it was Kyle? Again, a good OC will adjust his play calling to the talent he has. If McNabb was getting killed from the start of the game, why go more shotgun and roll outs or even try the hurry up to get Detroit out of rhythm?

Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.

The Genius and his prodigy man-child OC intend to rectify this situation by working out Jamarcus Russell ... the epitome of fat, lazy and stupid.

Makes perfect sense to me

Ray, you should really listen to the P.C.'s because Kyle specifically (many times in fact) stated that Donovan was not out of shape, and is not lazy, and you are the first one I have heard bring up stupid. You are taking quotes and exagerating them to make some sort of personal agenda of attacking Kyle. Kyle has not done anything here but coach a good game and be upfront (as much as he can without opening up pandora's box) about the entire thing.

What's your beef with this guy? You obviously know something that I do not.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Yeah, this whole thread is nonsense. Kyle Shanahan is an excellent offensive coordinator... but there's only so much he can do with a porous offensive line, a 4th string running back and exactly two options in the receiving game.

Not when he and his father want to blame the QB for this debacle. I call that cowardly ... on top of being liars.

Remember ... this was an uncapped year ... and it's not like Snyder is a tightwad. Aside from Trent Williams, (I give Brown a pass because he's hurt) who else on that line is performing like NFL linemen? And who put those guys out there?

Either the players SUCK or the coaching SUCKS or both. And considering it is the coaches responsibility to select the players who 'give us the best chance to win' ... is it McNabb's fault he's become a tackling dummy with no running game?

I would remind you that it was Kyle Shanahan was happy with the o-line at the beginning of the year ... and his father just said yesterday that he thought Kory Lichtenwhatever was playing well ... apparently seeing something no one else sees.

It's all well and good to say Kyle Shanahan can only do so much ... but what about them expecting their tackling dummy to make chicken salad out of chicken poop?

I'm a little concerned - because we have so many days to go before the next game, maybe by game time someone will have come up with a theory that Rexy actually has pictures of Kyle and his father .... well, you can imagine the furor

now ... if we could just throw in the facts like .... Donovan has this thing for hurting animals .....

chiefhog44 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

roybus14 wrote:The last time I checked offensive coordinators make adjustments to what the defense is doing just defensive coordinators make adjustments to what the offense is doing.

To me, both sides of the ball coordinators are suspect. Riddle me this: why would take a top 10 defense in the 4-3 scheme over the past three seasons and turn them into the 31st ranked defense in a 3-4??? Haslett's track record has not been stellar and this team has the athletes who thrived in the 4-3, so why change that?

Really though, you have to wonder how much Kubiak was involved in that Texans offense last year and how much of it was Kyle? Again, a good OC will adjust his play calling to the talent he has. If McNabb was getting killed from the start of the game, why go more shotgun and roll outs or even try the hurry up to get Detroit out of rhythm?

Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.

The Genius and his prodigy man-child OC intend to rectify this situation by working out Jamarcus Russell ... the epitome of fat, lazy and stupid.

Makes perfect sense to me

Ray, you should really listen to the P.C.'s because Kyle specifically (many times in fact) stated that Donovan was not out of shape, and is not lazy, and you are the first one I have heard bring up stupid. You are taking quotes and exagerating them to make some sort of personal agenda of attacking Kyle. Kyle has not done anything here but coach a good game and be upfront (as much as he can without opening up pandora's box) about the entire thing.

What's your beef with this guy? You obviously know something that I do not.

What alternate universe have you been residing in for the past 48 hours?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=5755905


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... _headlines


1) Post game presser - Mike S. says that he put Rex in because Donovan didn't know the terminology well enough to run the 2 minute offense as was Rex ... that, after OTA's, Pre-season, and the entire first half of the regular season, and he doesn't get the terminology yet ? How does he play the other 58 minutes? This equals - not very bright .... and that is according to Ex-head coaches that say that such an excuse or statement is a terrible indictment of McNabb's grasp of the offense by his coaches.

2) Monday presser - Mike S. claims that it was a cardio issue that made him decide to pull McNabb ... a cardio issue? He's not in football shape? Where have we heard that before? So now, he doesn't know the terminology (not very bright) and also is out of shape ... not up to snuff from a cardiovascular standpoint.

3) Inside sources reveal that there have been issues that the Shanahan clan have been trying to get McNabb to step up the pace in practices ... work on his fundamentals, etc. So that questions his work habits.

What do you think .... do you think I'm making this stuff up?

Kyle S. said yesterday that the three of them ... Mike, Donovan, and himself discussed the possibility that he might be pulled if he struggled on Sunday .... that was in contradiction to what Mike S. said in his presser on Monday when asked if he discussed that possibility with either Kyle or Donovan before the game ... which he responded NO. Donovan said yesterday "I never heard that part".

The bottom line is that actions were taken that show they didn't trust their starting QB to play the final 2 minutes of the game down by 5 points. The reason for why Mike S. made that decision was initially stated as McNabb not understanding the terminology well enough to run the 2 minute drill, then after sleeping on it .. he came back with the cardio and the hammys and the quad injuries excuses ... though McNabb wasn't being treated on the sideline for any injury during the game, and McNabb said he was fine.

I think you have to consider what their actions have clearly stated, which doesn't jibe with what Kyle Shanahan is NOW saying ....

But that's just me ... AND THE REST OF THE NFL who seems to see the situation as I see it.

Let me ask you this ... where do you think Mike S. gets the idea that McNabb doesn't understand the terminology well enough to run the 2 minuet offense? Kyle, his son, that's who.

Where do you think he get's the idea that McNabb's cardio isn't up to speed? Kyle ... obviously ... he's in charge of the offense and McNabb.

Where does Mike S. get the idea that Rex Grossman would perform better ... Rex's history versus McNabb's career history? Or from Kyle, who had Rex with him in Houston, and is in charge of the offense?

Certainly the Head Coach has the final say ... but where do they get their input when making such decisions? From the respective coordinators, be it offense or defense.

Do you think that Mike made the decision on his own ... with Kyle saying "No dad ... don't pull Donovan, he's our only chance" ?

Get real.

RayNAustin wrote:Remember ... this was an uncapped year ... and it's not like Snyder is a tightwad. Aside from Trent Williams, (I give Brown a pass because he's hurt) who else on that line is performing like NFL linemen? And who put those guys out there?

Uncapped doesn't mean you get extra draft picks or can sign players under contract. It tends to be older players who are available and they're usually free agents for a reason. Also, most players don't want one year contracts, particularly the good ones. And we're presumably only uncapped for one year. We certainly can't assume we'll be uncapped more then one year.

So...Ray...who specifically are you saying we screwed up on by not signing exactly?

RayNAustin wrote:Either the players SUCK or the coaching SUCKS or both

Don't forget the owner, fans, cheerleaders, stadium, DC, Maryland, bay crabs, the monuments, the Smithsonian, the Beltway... We've covered that Ray...

RayNAustin wrote:What do you think .... do you think I'm making this stuff up?

You don't usually "make it up," but you do ignore anything positive, believe any and all negative innuendo as fact and stretch any information to be the most negative interpretation possible. But you're right it's usually based on something.

The deal is this ... on Sunday, the Redskins offensive line looked like they were playing the 85' Chicago Bears, not the 2010 Detroit Lions. They were MANHANDLED, and McNabb was turned into a whipping post.

So far, only Cutler has been sacked more than McNabb .. and the Redskins are on pace to have MORE sacks than last year's Redskin team.

They've struggled getting any kind of consistent run game going since pre-season, and the o-line looks like a bunch of stationary speed bumps that can neither pass protect or run block for three downs in a row.

What does the Shanahan & Son team do ... do they admit that they miscalculated the talent on the o-line, and have yet to find a way to scheme around the weaknesses to get better production? No ... they blame McNabb for not understanding the offense as well as he should by now ... they question his practice habits and pace ... they question his cardiovascular conditioning (no doubt due to the lack of pace in practice, in their minds).

This is PLAINLY AND PURELY a case of "it's not my offense that has the problems ... it's the QB ... he's not where we'd like him to be". And just where would that be? Standing upright once in a while after throwing the ball? Hellooooo? Earth to Shanahan !!

In all honesty, McNabb has not played to the level of expectations, but considering ALL of the facts .... that Kyle is trying to alter his fundamentals, while he learns a new offense and new teammates, working behind a line that can't block ANYBODY ... I just don't see how you can make any kind of realistic evaluation of McNabb ... certainly not to the extreme of pulling him in favor of Sexy Rexy .... you know what Ocho Cinco said about this? He said ... "Anybody that thinks Grossman gives you a better chance to win than McNabb ought to slap they selves".

If he had any cardio issues leading up to the final 2 minutes ... I think that might have more to do with RUNNING FOR HIS LIFE for 58 minutes, than it does the pace of his practice.

And I think throwing McNabb under the bus is an act of cowardice, and an attempt to deflect criticism from where it belongs.

they question his practice habits and pace ...

They aren't the only ones, though. Tim Hasselbeck said on Sports Center last night that when he was in Philly the Eagles coaches had the same issue with McNabb. Hasselbeck also said that in Philly, in their O, McNabb had more freedom to improvise, whereas in DC he is being asked to play within the offense, and Hasselbeck said that he thinks that McNabb is having trouble adjusting to that. Hence the "WTF" reaction from Kyle during the game.

I have a question... If Mcnab can hit those 40 or 50 yard passes why can't he hit the short ones when the defense is bringing the sink? This is all Kyles fault?
I think Mcnab deserves some blame here even though our line is terrible. I think who ever is in charge of the Oline needs to rethink their position on Dock. How can he be worse than Cory?

Plenty of blame to go around. Let's see what happens against Philly. I am dreading when we have to play the Giants. That line is even better than the Lions.

Our line sucks but they can step it up a little by putting Dock in and playing a little better than they have.

[quote="Kilmer72"]I have a question... If Mcnab can hit those 40 or 50 yard passes why can't he hit the short ones when the defense is bringing the sink? [quote]

you should ask that to eagles fans who have been dealing with it for years.

ok my two cents..

mcnabb was benched by shanny after kyle complained to shanny that mcnabb wasnt running the plays called. he needed to ask daddy to sit mcnabb so kyle can keep face and make his presence felt as a leadership figure, as a coach.

I dont think it had anything to do with mcnabbs numbers or his health or ability to do the job i think this whole thing is a mini feud between mcnabb and kyle. that being said, our O line in bad. really bad.

how is it that i went from super hopefull about the second half of the season to emotionally crushed and devoid of all hope with 2 minutes left in game 8??

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Remember ... this was an uncapped year ... and it's not like Snyder is a tightwad. Aside from Trent Williams, (I give Brown a pass because he's hurt) who else on that line is performing like NFL linemen? And who put those guys out there?

Uncapped doesn't mean you get extra draft picks or can sign players under contract. It tends to be older players who are available and they're usually free agents for a reason. Also, most players don't want one year contracts, particularly the good ones. And we're presumably only uncapped for one year. We certainly can't assume we'll be uncapped more then one year.

So...Ray...who specifically are you saying we screwed up on by not signing exactly?

RayNAustin wrote:Either the players SUCK or the coaching SUCKS or both

Don't forget the owner, fans, cheerleaders, stadium, DC, Maryland, bay crabs, the monuments, the Smithsonian, the Beltway... We've covered that Ray...

That's just not true ... lots of older UFA sign 1 year deals ... and because they are older doesn't mean that any single one of them wouldn't be an upgrade to what we currently have out there.

Secondly, with the way the line is being tossed around like girl scouts with their skirts up to their necks ... how can you insinuate that they have managed to put the best available line out there?

Let me ask you ... would you rather have Flozell Adams on the line, or Heyer ? You think he wouldn't come in handy right now, with Williams and Brown both banged up?

Or any of these guys 4 guards, 3 Tackles and center who were all UFA:

Alan Faneca (G/NYJ) UFA
Justin Hartwig (C/Pittsburgh), UFA
Chad Clifton (T/Green Bay), UFA
Mike Gandy (T/Arizona), UFA
Nick Kaczur (T/New England), UFA
Stephen Neal (G/New England), UFA
Mark Tauscher (G/Green Bay), UFA
Bobbie Williams (G/Cincinnati), UFA

So tell me ... who on the offensive line is getting the job done ... anybody? (besides Williams)

And save the snide remarks and sarcasm .... you always resort to that when you have nothing else.

OL, OL, OL. It's all on the Shany-Allen combo for putting us on the field with this group of journeymen duffs. I said it all preseason and say it now. We needed to draft more OL and find OL help by trades or FA. We were a preseason bust and are paying for it now. May I also say that nepotism is a part of our problem. We have a coaches' son at OC and a great coaches' son at GM. The minute I knew that Kyle and Allen were aboard, I knew we would have problems. Elder Shany has always had trouble picking personnel. Kyle and Allen multiplied the problem by three.

TincoSkin wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:I have a question... If Mcnab can hit those 40 or 50 yard passes why can't he hit the short ones when the defense is bringing the sink?

you should ask that to eagles fans who have been dealing with it for years.

ok my two cents..

mcnabb was benched by shanny after kyle complained to shanny that mcnabb wasnt running the plays called. he needed to ask daddy to sit mcnabb so kyle can keep face and make his presence felt as a leadership figure, as a coach.

I dont think it had anything to do with mcnabbs numbers or his health or ability to do the job i think this whole thing is a mini feud between mcnabb and kyle. that being said, our O line in bad. really bad.

how is it that i went from super hopefull about the second half of the season to emotionally crushed and devoid of all hope with 2 minutes left in game 8??

Just out of curiosity I might just ask them (Eagle Fans) . It really doesn't make much sense to me. If he has enough time to hit 50% on a long bomb he should be able to hit the short ones and eat time if our running game isn't working. Personally I prefer smash mouth running game and less passing but the league has changed and I guess so should we. I should also ask the Bronco fans why MS is so stubborn. These guys probably know better than most of us.

I wasn't expecting Super Bowl but I was expecting 9 and 7 to 10 and 6. I think even last years teams wasn't really a 4 and 12 team. As bad as we were we still were in many games.

what if, im just gonna throw this out there...

what if shanny has planned all along for this season to be a practice season. for him to judge the talent and see what is needed and what is to be done. what if he had no aspirations of success in the first year but instead intended only to use mcnabb as a stepping stone, a guy to run the offense who is pretty good in order to see what the guys around him could do with a good qb. and now that the experiment is over he is using the rest of the season to put guys in take guys out and find who is going to be cut this offseason.