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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:00 am
by Chris Luva Luva
Typically, Ad hominem abusive displays an inability to backup a point...
You can disagree with me all day and that's perfectly fine. But personal attacks aren't allowed outside of the smack forum. Keep it clean, or take it in there.
What you can do, is read up on our rules for newbies to the forums.
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11
K? Thanks.
Re: We need Oline not more RBs!
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:22 am
by SkinsBrewCrew
The Hogster wrote:SkinsBrewCrew wrote:No, I don't care to. You stated it, so its on you to back up your stance. You asked me to list specific credentials, and when I stated where you can see em, you said "I don't care to." ...you're worst than a woman. lol!
I have a feeling that nothing would have satisfied you, or the rest of this fanbase. Nothing short of a time machine to ditch you all back in the 80's.So you're going on your feelings here? ...you are a woman. lol!
SMH... That's just a completely uneducated comment. And I don't mean that personally, I mean it as far as you having completely NOTHING to base that on. Nothing. Not one thing.There was an article/blog on this very same concern (see link above). As far as my opinion on when Bugel should have "retired"? ....it's neither educated or uneducated, it's an opinion. I can see how you can get confused here. lol!
It's 2010, stop living in the past. You sound like an ex-gf! lol! ...we had the Hogs... it's also the very same website that got it's name from, so.... open yo mouth, insert foot. lol!
Ironically, A LOT of ppl, not just SBC, would like to see this team have a dominating Oline that can give homage to one of the greatest Olines in the history of the game. It's not living in the past, it's called... wait for it....
Honoring the TRADITION.
....again, I can see where this can confuse you. lol!
I doubt that they really care. Seriously. I can give a Rat's arse if they care. lol! ... I'm a Skins fan, I care. F everyone else. lol! ....
Yeah, cus that's all it takes. You want coach Grimm who is apprentice to the master Bugel whom you just described as inadequate.... That makes no sense. It doesn't to you, and that's ...ok.
...I would try to explain that Coach Grimm is a younger version of Bugel who has helped coach the last two olines that have gone to the super bowl in the past 5 years, but I think it will also be met with more questions... I'm sure of it. lol!
That is not unrealistic. Your expectations, they are unrealistic.lol! You "assumed" that my expectation were bordering on being unrealistic. When I stated that my expectations that the Oline shoudl be better than last years, you turn around and said "they are unrealistic."
With that, again I say to you.... too bad.
lol!
Those are my expectations. *shrugs* ..don't like em? ....toooo bad.
SBC: I think that Chris is saying that you have nothing to base your opinion on to support your statement that Chris Foerster will do better or worse than Bugel, but still not good enough. You simply don't know that, and unless you've already been into the future, you can't declare Forester a success or failure.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but what gets annoying is when certain posters whine and moan about things that they 1) haven't seen yet and 2) have no basis to proclaim a failure.
No one here is claiming that the 2010 Skins lines will be reminiscent of the Hogs. It won't. But, it doesn't have to be in order to work.
Ok, I'm saying that, based on my opinion, and knowledge of football... again based on MY OPINION.... that our new coach lacks the credentials that would make me, and many other fans ( so much of a concern there was an article/blog about it in the Skisn website -n see above... AGAIN)
feel warm and fuzzy inside about our oline coach. If it were the Oline coach that the Colts had, or that Arizona, fans wouldn't feel so at ease about it. It's again, a matter of credentials. Like if we were to hire the Eagles Oline coach, I think fans would be like "wtf?"
But yea.. see that article. Strangely enough, it cam eout the day after I posted questions and concerns about the Oline coach.
After reading it, I'm still a bit concerned.... BUT.... our oline WILL be better than past years.... Now... as horrible as those olines were over the past couple of years, it's not saying much.
See article..... please. I'm not the only one that feels this may be an issue.
Re: We need Oline not more RBs!
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:26 am
by Chris Luva Luva
The Hogster wrote:I think that Chris is saying that you have nothing to base your opinion on to support your statement that Chris Foerster will do better or worse than Bugel, but still not good enough.
Correct
The Hogster wrote:You simply don't know that,
Sure can't...
The Hogster wrote:and unless you've already been into the future
There's a good chance he hasn't but I'm thinking a few of these posters grabbed an almanac from Marty McFly.
The Hogster wrote:you can't declare Forester a success or failure.
Nope, yet somehow they reason in their heads that they can.
The Hogster wrote:Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
That's a great thing.
The Hogster wrote:but what gets annoying is when certain posters whine and moan about things that they
Preach it.
The Hogster wrote:1) haven't seen yet and
They must be able to attend OTA's...
The Hogster wrote:2) have no basis to proclaim a failure.
Other than a gut feeling...
The Hogster wrote:No one here is claiming that the 2010 Skins lines will be reminiscent of the Hogs. It won't.
No line will ever compare, they were unique. There may be better but they will never be the hogs.
The Hogster wrote:But, it doesn't have to be in order to work.
Yes.
They might be garbage come November, but why complain about it now? There will be plenty of time to do that in Nov. I don't care about being right or being wrong but why be so down on something that has yet to be seen?
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:31 am
by SkinsBrewCrew
PM sent. 2nd warning.
edited by CLL, your friendly neighborhood spidey man.
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:19 pm
by The Hogster
I didn't know that an offensive line coach could elicit a warm and fuzzy from the fans.
But, anyway, whatever floats your boat.
It is also ironic that you say the O Line coach from the Ravens would have given the warm and fuzzy despite the fact that 1) they don't run a zone blocking scheme and 2) during the Ravens best season in 9 years, the Offensive Line coach for the Ravens was..................Chris Foerster.
By the way, that was the year that a 33 year old, talented QB was locked out of his facility and traded to a hated rival. See Steve McNair from Titans to Ravens. The team went 13-3 after going 6-10 the year before.
But, I'm sure even then, some clairvoyant fan declared that season a failure.
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:30 am
by VetSkinsFan
The Hogster wrote:I didn't know that an offensive line coach could elicit a warm and fuzzy from the fans.
But, anyway, whatever floats your boat.
It is also ironic that you say the O Line coach from the Ravens would have given the warm and fuzzy despite the fact that 1) they don't run a zone blocking scheme and 2) during the Ravens best season in 9 years, the Offensive Line coach for the Ravens was..................Chris Foerster.
By the way, that was the year that a 33 year old, talented QB was locked out of his facility and traded to a hated rival. See Steve McNair from Titans to Ravens. The team went 13-3 after going 6-10 the year before.
But, I'm sure even then, some clairvoyant fan declared that season a failure.
THEY'RE ALL BUSTS!!!! DANNY, CUT 'EM ALL!!!!
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:24 am
by fleetus
The Hogster wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:For all the people complaining about the oline moves, I'm curious to know what other moves you would have made. The team is obviously aware that oline was a problem last year and has taken steps to correct that. However, they aren't going to be able to totally revamp the line in one offseason. Taking Williams is a good start and the Capers pick was great value. I'm sure that they'll continue making over the line next offseason, and if any trades or signings become possible this year, I'm sure Shanahan/Allen will make a move if it makes sense.
People complain for the sake of complaining. You can't say that this O Line will not be much improved. Artis Hicks is an upgrade over Heyer...Mike Williams lost 100 pounds just to play last year, and he was playing Right Tackle at times. He has to be physically better at this point and focusing on one position will help.
Give this scheme and the new players a chance. We also have a QB who is a bit more decisive. What is out there that we could have gotten without mortgaging the future??? Jamaal Brown and Jared Gaither would have required draft picks.
There is no magic fix that would appease everyone. We didn't overpay Pashos or another Free Agent, and Selvish Capers may become a starter.
I agree. This system takes a different skill set than most other teams require. Some players will look much better than last year. Some players will slip down a few rounds in drafts that will fit our system perfectly. We don't need to give up any more draft picks to trade for lineman. Shan-Allen have done everything they could. Now it is time to let the coaches do their work. I firmly believe this O-line will not be the weak link this year. Defensive backfield and receivers are bigger concerns, IMO.
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:04 am
by langleyparkjoe
I think I may have ta agree wit Fleetus on dis one
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:36 pm
by The Hogster
Exactly. I'm hopeful that Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly have breakout years much like Roddy White and Sidney Rice did.
But, if they don't receiver is a weakness. It takes 5 lineman, so I don't think its reasonable to expect a complete overhaul in one year.
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:32 pm
by CanesSkins26
I firmly believe this O-line will not be the weak link this year. Defensive backfield and receivers are bigger concerns, IMO.
I think that the o-line will be better than last year and I think that Shanahan and Allen did all that they could with it, but there is no doubt that it is going to still be a weakness this year, especially if we are hit with any injuries. Trent Williams is going to go through normal rookie mistakes, Dockery is solid, Big Mike SHOULD be better, Hicks should be serviceable, and Rabach will likely be a weak spot once again. Not terrible, but it's still a concern. But like others have pointed out, you cant transform a line in one offseason.
I do agree with you that WR and the defensive backfield are big concerns.
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:07 pm
by fleetus
CanesSkins26 wrote:I firmly believe this O-line will not be the weak link this year. Defensive backfield and receivers are bigger concerns, IMO.
I think that the o-line will be better than last year and I think that Shanahan and Allen did all that they could with it, but there is no doubt that it is going to still be a weakness this year, especially if we are hit with any injuries. Trent Williams is going to go through normal rookie mistakes, Dockery is solid, Big Mike SHOULD be better, Hicks should be serviceable, and Rabach will likely be a weak spot once again. Not terrible, but it's still a concern. But like others have pointed out, you cant transform a line in one offseason.
I do agree with you that WR and the defensive backfield are big concerns.
I think Rabach may be better suited to zone blocking and be an improvement this year. O-line depth might be decent too. Heyer, Rinehart, Capers, Cook, E. Williams and Montgomery is not too shabby especially if Capers, Rinehart and Cook improve under this coaching staff.
I agree they could still be a weakness, but I'm betting they'll be at least an NFL average or better line by mid-season. McNabb will make them look better too.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:59 am
by redskins14ru
i really truly do not know what to expect from the offense , it has been a while since I watched a shanahan coached team . I bet I could find some clips online , this oline has some good backs runing behind them , that should help, chemistry on offense takes 11 players i bet we have a decent line this year
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:37 am
by PulpExposure
CanesSkins26 wrote:I firmly believe this O-line will not be the weak link this year. Defensive backfield and receivers are bigger concerns, IMO.
I think that the o-line will be better than last year and I think that Shanahan and Allen did all that they could with it, but there is no doubt that it is going to still be a weakness this year, especially if we are hit with any injuries. Trent Williams is going to go through normal rookie mistakes, Dockery is solid, Big Mike SHOULD be better, Hicks should be serviceable, and Rabach will likely be a weak spot once again. Not terrible, but it's still a concern. But like others have pointed out, you cant transform a line in one offseason.
I do agree with you that WR and the defensive backfield are big concerns.
Overall agreed with you, but you don't exactly turn a 4-12 team around overnight. This team, like all horrible teams (and please, a 4-12 record is horrible), has holes. This team, not just the o-line, will take a little time to fix.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:54 am
by Chris Luva Luva
PulpExposure wrote:This team, like all horrible teams (and please, a 4-12 record is horrible), has holes. This team, not just the o-line, will take a little time to fix.
Agreed. This is why I don't mind all the aging veterans being brought on board. The team got yougner where it could with the limited draft picks, and they're simply patching leaks with the best people available. Next year, with a slew of picks, we'll get even younger. In 2012, we'll continue to get younger. It cannot happen over night.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:37 am
by yupchagee
Chris Luva Luva wrote:PulpExposure wrote:This team, like all horrible teams (and please, a 4-12 record is horrible), has holes. This team, not just the o-line, will take a little time to fix.
Agreed. This is why I don't mind all the aging veterans being brought on board. The team got yougner where it could with the limited draft picks, and they're simply patching leaks with the best people available. Next year, with a slew of picks, we'll get even younger. In 2012, we'll continue to get younger. It cannot happen over night.
What "slew" of picks? As of now we have 6.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:40 am
by Chris Luva Luva
yupchagee wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:PulpExposure wrote:This team, like all horrible teams (and please, a 4-12 record is horrible), has holes. This team, not just the o-line, will take a little time to fix.
Agreed. This is why I don't mind all the aging veterans being brought on board. The team got yougner where it could with the limited draft picks, and they're simply patching leaks with the best people available. Next year, with a slew of picks, we'll get even younger. In 2012, we'll continue to get younger. It cannot happen over night.
What "slew" of picks? As of now we have 6.
Any # above 4 is considered a "slew" for this franchise.
The front office has shown with this past draft that they're willing to navigate through the draft to obtain more picks/value.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:16 pm
by VetSkinsFan
Chris Luva Luva wrote:PulpExposure wrote:This team, like all horrible teams (and please, a 4-12 record is horrible), has holes. This team, not just the o-line, will take a little time to fix.
Agreed. This is why I don't mind all the aging veterans being brought on board. The team got yougner where it could with the limited draft picks, and they're simply patching leaks with the best people available. Next year, with a slew of picks, we'll get even younger. In 2012, we'll continue to get younger. It cannot happen over night.
I agree as well. There was a thread about this in teh beginning IIRC; bringing in aging vets for a short term answer since we couldn't address all of the issues we had in the draft.
And I agree on the slew example
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:30 pm
by PulpExposure
Chris Luva Luva wrote:yupchagee wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:PulpExposure wrote:This team, like all horrible teams (and please, a 4-12 record is horrible), has holes. This team, not just the o-line, will take a little time to fix.
Agreed. This is why I don't mind all the aging veterans being brought on board. The team got yougner where it could with the limited draft picks, and they're simply patching leaks with the best people available. Next year, with a slew of picks, we'll get even younger. In 2012, we'll continue to get younger. It cannot happen over night.
What "slew" of picks? As of now we have 6.
Any # above 4 is considered a "slew" for this franchise.
VetSkinsFan wrote:THEY'RE ALL BUSTS!!!! DANNY, CUT 'EM ALL!!!!
Hey, that's my line, dammit!
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:06 pm
by yupchagee
Chris Luva Luva wrote:yupchagee wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:PulpExposure wrote:This team, like all horrible teams (and please, a 4-12 record is horrible), has holes. This team, not just the o-line, will take a little time to fix.
Agreed. This is why I don't mind all the aging veterans being brought on board. The team got yougner where it could with the limited draft picks, and they're simply patching leaks with the best people available. Next year, with a slew of picks, we'll get even younger. In 2012, we'll continue to get younger. It cannot happen over night.
What "slew" of picks? As of now we have 6.
Any # above 4 is considered a "slew" for this franchise.
The front office has shown with this past draft that they're willing to navigate through the draft to obtain more picks/value.
Maybe on a relative basis, but with an average of 8/team (includimg comp.) 6 is not a "slew". As for acquiring more picks, don't count your chickens before they hatch.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:59 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
yupchagee wrote:Maybe on a relative basis, but with an average of 8/team (includimg comp.) 6 is not a "slew". As for acquiring more picks, don't count your chickens before they hatch.
Mike said that he's not a fan of trading away picks. I expect in the future for us to have our 8 picks. I expect us to trade them more mindfully in the future if we do.
Our GM traded for more picks I think twice is this past draft. It's not crazy to think he'd do it again next year if it'd benefit the team.