The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gibbs4Life wrote:

Logan Paulsen, TE, UCLA
Anderson Russell, FS, Ohio State
Marques Slocum, DT, Eastern Arizona
Keiland Williams, RB, LSU
Jaevery McFadden, LB, Wisc


Rumors:

Derrick Townsel, WR, Murray St.
Greg Paulus, QB, Duke (point guard )

boo

Why boo? We have no depth at point guard...

NOOOO Not Paulas...I can't root for anything duke, or ex-duke, or anyone or anything thinking about Duke...

Duke is like the Church of Scientology. The people who are in it are fanatical followers, but the rest of us don't get it.

That said, I'll take anybody who can go out there and throw balls to the 50 or so try-ons who will never make a roster.

I don't think many here understand that ONLY A VERY FEW of both the drafted players or UFA will be a part of ANY NFL franchise in 5 months

I know that we are a lot better off than we would have been if Cerrato and Snyder were responsible for any football decisions for this franchise - we are not there yet but we are headed in the right direction if only because these 2 guys did not give up on players that could help this franchise like Haynesworth, Landry or McIntosh and at least got something for Campbell despite the fact that we most likely were going to cut him if nobody wanted to do trade for him - I'm fairly sure that Campbell was not going to be a part of this franchise


we are a 4-12 franchise and we still have a few areas of concern but the area of biggest concern is still the offensive line - we'll get better but we have a long way to go before we see a consistently competitive product on the field

I'm encouraged - like I said, at least these 2 guys acted with restraint and did as well as they could with the picks they had IMO AND they didn't give up anymore picks in next year's draft

tribeofjudah wrote:how many TEs do we need....? ey and Davis are still "my" starters.

Seriously, does anybody honestly believe that we're bring UFA TE's in here to challenge ey and Davis??

Good grief. These guys are warm bodies for camp whose best hope is catching on with special teams.

Paulsen is supposed to be strictly a blocking TE, and given Davis' shortcomings in that area, he might be able to make the team based on his usefulness in those circumstances.

I would also keep an eye on Anderson Russell... he fills a specific need that we didn't address with the draft and he might have the athleticism to stick if he puts in the effort.

Also, the running backs could be in the mix. I doubt we'll start the season with Parker, Johnson and Portis... Torain and one of the UFAs are more likely to stick as 3rd and 4th string RBs.

Add:
Daryll Clark, QB, Penn State
Maurice Greer, RB, Troy

Greer was a blue chip recruit out of high school who dropped to junior college because of grades, then survived testicular cancer before making it back to D I-A with Troy. Given Shanahan's track record, Greer and/or Williams could see some playing time in the backfield eventually.

But in general, we have an 85 man roster during camp and a 53 man roster during the season, so 30 players are going to come in and then get cut.

Wow, Clark didn't get drafted?

Pretty solid list up to this point. Most rumors have been confirmed on the players listed below:

Signed
Logan Paulsen, TE, UCLA
Anderson Russell, FS, Ohio State
Marques Slocum, DT, Eastern Arizona
Keiland Williams, RB, LSU
Daryll Clark, QB, PSU
Maurice Greer, RB, Troy
Jaevery McFadden, LB, Wisconsin

Tryouts
Derrick Townsel, WR, Murray State
Bo McNally, S, Stanford
Klint Kubiak, S, Colorado State
Tony Nelson, RB, UMass

fredp45 wrote:NOOOO Not Paulas...I can't root for anything duke, or ex-duke, or anyone or anything thinking about Duke...

I'm pretty sure Sonny Jurgenson went to Duke.

Warmother wrote:

fredp45 wrote:NOOOO Not Paulas...I can't root for anything duke, or ex-duke, or anyone or anything thinking about Duke...

I'm pretty sure Sonny Jurgenson went to Duke.

I'm pretty sure you're right. BTW, the only Jurgensen record still standing at Duke is consecutive games making an interception (4)... believe it or not, Jurgensen was a pretty decent DB in college.

I didn't root for the Skins then...I was a Baltimore Colts fan when I was growing up...Johnny U!!!! Grew up in MD, rooted for the COlts, when they left town in a moving van, I switched over to the Skins...screw the Colts in Indy.

What school ex-players went doesn't matter!!!

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

spudstr04 wrote:http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?prospectId=294188

Being a Duke fan, I saw this guy a lot the past few years. Vince Oghobaase would be a great addition to the DL rotation.

Duke has football fans??

My daughter's a freshman at Duke and my business sells to lots of Duke departments so I'm on the campus all the time. I haven't met one yet but if I do I'll let you know...

Haha...Duke finally has a head coach and good recruits. We will be bowling this year. Sean Renfree is a decent QB prospect.

I'm a huge NC State fan and the one team in the state that scares me is Duke. It's not Carolina. We've fared pretty well vs them but Duke on the other hand has Smart Players!!! They're not the most athletically gifted group but Cutcliff is changing it around there. I wish them luck except for when they play the Pack of course.

frankcal20 wrote:I'm a huge NC State fan and the one team in the state that scares me is Duke. It's not Carolina. We've fared pretty well vs them but Duke on the other hand has Smart Players!!! They're not the most athletically gifted group but Cutcliff is changing it around there. I wish them luck except for when they play the Pack of course.

Sorry, have to disagree with this. Duke's team, generally speaking is garbage. They went 5-7 last year, which is a successful season for them, and they now lose the player more responsible for those five wins, Thaddeus Lewis. Lewis is a baller and without him Duke is going to go back to being a 2 or 3 win team.

Interesting stat tp put the importance of UFA's into perspective:

What percentage of last years (2009) NFL starters were UFA's compared to drafted players?

Former 1st Rounders - 20%

Undrafted Free Agents - 17%

Former 2nd Rounders - 15%

Former 3rd Rounders - 13%

Former 4th Rounders - 10%

As amazing as this stat is, then consider that in most cases former 1st and 2nd rounders are being payed quite a bit more than UFA's, so the team has a certain amount of pressure to play the drafted players and give them every opportunity to fail. Yet, UFA's STILL make up almost as many of the NFL starters as 1st rounders!!! Bottom line, UFA's are crucial to a teams' success.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I'm a huge NC State fan and the one team in the state that scares me is Duke. It's not Carolina. We've fared pretty well vs them but Duke on the other hand has Smart Players!!! They're not the most athletically gifted group but Cutcliff is changing it around there. I wish them luck except for when they play the Pack of course.

Sorry, have to disagree with this. Duke's team, generally speaking is garbage. They went 5-7 last year, which is a successful season for them, and they now lose the player more responsible for those five wins, Thaddeus Lewis. Lewis is a baller and without him Duke is going to go back to being a 2 or 3 win team.

For Duke, that's a huge improvement. Their coach is a damn good one and I have a feeling that they are going to be a team turning things around. I don't particularly like them myself but that may be the in-state rival thing.

spudstr04 wrote:http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?prospectId=294188

Being a Duke fan, I saw this guy a lot the past few years. Vince Oghobaase would be a great addition to the DL rotation.

You lost me with your first four words.. I hate you, I'm not attacking you though.. but I hate you. It's what us Terp fans do.. we hate you dook guys. I'm glad your a Skins fan and Skins fans above everything else.. but I hate you. I hate the fact you support a team called "devils".. boooo dook.

SkinsJock wrote:I don't think many here understand that ONLY A VERY FEW of both the drafted players or UFA will be a part of ANY NFL franchise in 5 months

I know that we are a lot better off than we would have been if Cerrato and Snyder were responsible for any football decisions for this franchise - we are not there yet but we are headed in the right direction if only because these 2 guys did not give up on players that could help this franchise like Haynesworth, Landry or McIntosh and at least got something for Campbell despite the fact that we most likely were going to cut him if nobody wanted to do trade for him - I'm fairly sure that Campbell was not going to be a part of this franchise


we are a 4-12 franchise and we still have a few areas of concern but the area of biggest concern is still the offensive line - we'll get better but we have a long way to go before we see a consistently competitive product on the field

I'm encouraged - like I said, at least these 2 guys acted with restraint and did as well as they could with the picks they had IMO AND they didn't give up anymore picks in next year's draft

I'm relieved that you and I finally agree on something-- your first statement. If we pick up three or four who will ever be regular starters,
we'll be ahead of the game. Of our drafted picks, only Williams will likely be a starter any time soon. Perry, of course, may have a shot, if only because we desperately need an LB for the 3-4. Capers can be considered a long shot, but I wouldn't put money on him.

fleetus wrote:Interesting stat tp put the importance of UFA's into perspective:

What percentage of last years (2009) NFL starters were UFA's compared to drafted players?

Former 1st Rounders - 20%

Undrafted Free Agents - 17%

Former 2nd Rounders - 15%

Former 3rd Rounders - 13%

Former 4th Rounders - 10%

As amazing as this stat is, then consider that in most cases former 1st and 2nd rounders are being payed quite a bit more than UFA's, so the team has a certain amount of pressure to play the drafted players and give them every opportunity to fail. Yet, UFA's STILL make up almost as many of the NFL starters as 1st rounders!!! Bottom line, UFA's are crucial to a teams' success.

Keep in mind that there are only 32 1st & 32 2nd round picks every year. There are hundreds of undrafted players out there.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Sorry, have to disagree with this. Duke's team, generally speaking is garbage. They went 5-7 last year, which is a successful season for them, and they now lose the player more responsible for those five wins, Thaddeus Lewis. Lewis is a baller and without him Duke is going to go back to being a 2 or 3 win team.

Sure, but where else can you see an ACC game for 10-15 bucks?

I went to the Duke-VT game a couple years ago. The guy in line asked if they could get a ticket in the "VT Section." The teller responded, "They all are the VT sections." And they were, there was a small blue section and the rest were maroon and orange.

It's a class school though. I mentioned my daughter is finishing her freshman year. They whallop you once up front with tuition, but then everything's covered, no nickle and diming. Great kids, great faculty. As a Terp I shared in having a hard time liking them, but with her experience there I'm learning to like them. Living in the Triangle too, no offense Frank (I don't know any NC State fans and I live here), but you are UNC or Duke or you're just out of the circuit. Families are split like in the Civil War. And they are SERIOUS....

yupchagee wrote:

fleetus wrote:Interesting stat tp put the importance of UFA's into perspective:

What percentage of last years (2009) NFL starters were UFA's compared to drafted players?

Former 1st Rounders - 20%

Undrafted Free Agents - 17%

Former 2nd Rounders - 15%

Former 3rd Rounders - 13%

Former 4th Rounders - 10%

As amazing as this stat is, then consider that in most cases former 1st and 2nd rounders are being payed quite a bit more than UFA's, so the team has a certain amount of pressure to play the drafted players and give them every opportunity to fail. Yet, UFA's STILL make up almost as many of the NFL starters as 1st rounders!!! Bottom line, UFA's are crucial to a teams' success.

Keep in mind that there are only 32 1st & 32 2nd round picks every year. There are hundreds of undrafted players out there.

That doesn't really change the fact that UFA's, despite not being selected in the top 250 players each year, still win way more than their fair share of jobs. Think about this, in a 5 year period, the NFL drafts over 1,250 players, yet UFA's end up starting more games than 60% of those players!

I think we could speculate a few things:

1. Too much money is being thrown at 22 yr. old guys in the top few rounds. (For those older guys, Remember how reliable you were at 22?)
2. There is more to being an NFL player than a 40 time and a vertical leap
3. If you start your career expecting to play you may get beaten out by a guy who knows he has to work his butt off just to make the team. Those attitudes may carry over to successive years to help the UFA's to eventually become starters.

added Trey Jacobs signing

fleetus wrote:Pretty solid list up to this point. Most rumors have been confirmed on the players listed below:

Signed
Logan Paulsen, TE, UCLA
Anderson Russell, FS, Ohio State
Marques Slocum, DT, Eastern Arizona
Keiland Williams, RB, LSU
Daryll Clark, QB, PSU
Maurice Greer, RB, Troy
Jaevery McFadden, LB, Wisconsin
Trey Jacobs, DL, Liberty


Tryouts
Derrick Townsel, WR, Murray State
Bo McNally, S, Stanford
Klint Kubiak, S, Colorado State
Tony Nelson, RB, UMass

fleetus wrote:added Trey Jacobs signing

fleetus wrote:Pretty solid list up to this point. Most rumors have been confirmed on the players listed below:

Signed
Logan Paulsen, TE, UCLA
Anderson Russell, FS, Ohio State
Marques Slocum, DT, Eastern Arizona
Keiland Williams, RB, LSU
Daryll Clark, QB, PSU
Maurice Greer, RB, Troy
Jaevery McFadden, LB, Wisconsin
Trey Jacobs, DL, Liberty


Tryouts
Derrick Townsel, WR, Murray State
Bo McNally, S, Stanford
Klint Kubiak, S, Colorado State
Tony Nelson, RB, UMass

I think that Clark, Greer, Slocum & McFadden are tryout only.

fleetus wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

fleetus wrote:Interesting stat tp put the importance of UFA's into perspective:

What percentage of last years (2009) NFL starters were UFA's compared to drafted players?

Former 1st Rounders - 20%

Undrafted Free Agents - 17%

Former 2nd Rounders - 15%

Former 3rd Rounders - 13%

Former 4th Rounders - 10%

As amazing as this stat is, then consider that in most cases former 1st and 2nd rounders are being payed quite a bit more than UFA's, so the team has a certain amount of pressure to play the drafted players and give them every opportunity to fail. Yet, UFA's STILL make up almost as many of the NFL starters as 1st rounders!!! Bottom line, UFA's are crucial to a teams' success.

Keep in mind that there are only 32 1st & 32 2nd round picks every year. There are hundreds of undrafted players out there.

That doesn't really change the fact that UFA's, despite not being selected in the top 250 players each year, still win way more than their fair share of jobs. Think about this, in a 5 year period, the NFL drafts over 1,250 players, yet UFA's end up starting more games than 60% of those players!

Your math is still bad... The sheer number really matters. Lets say this is out of 704 starters in the league (I don't know what special teamers they're counting, and if they are counting everyone who started a single game, or whatever... but 22 starters x 32 teams=704)

This year there have been 472 undrafted free agents signed... lets say that's high... lets say it's only 400 normally.

Lets also say the NFL represents 10 years of draft classes (I know there are older guys out there, but there are also a lot of younger guys who have retired -- and the math will come out even anyway).

That's 320 1st rounders, 320 second rounders, 330 3rd rounders, 330 4th rounders, 1240 late round guys and 4000 UDFAs.

Last year, 141 first rounders starters (20% of 704)... 106 2nd rounders, 91 3rd rounders, and 70 4th rounders, 176 late round guys and 120 Undrafted Free Agents.

So about 44% of the guys drafted in the 1st round in the last 10 years were starting last year. 33% of the 2nd round, 28% of the 3rd round, 22% of the 4th round, 14% of the late rounders, but only 3% of the UDFAs.

Those percentages are a little off because the league really represents more draft years and they might be counting a whole lot more starters than I am, but they should be off uniformly.

Any way you cut it, the 1st rounders are almost 15 times more likely to be starting. The late rounders are almost 5 times more likely to be starting.

Put it another way: out of those 12 UDFAs the Skins are bringing into camp, chances are only 1 is ever going to make it as a starter (we don't actually have the information to know the number of people who EVER start, but it shouldn't be more than 1 in 12 based on what we do know).

FireVinny wrote:

fleetus wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

fleetus wrote:Interesting stat tp put the importance of UFA's into perspective:

What percentage of last years (2009) NFL starters were UFA's compared to drafted players?

Former 1st Rounders - 20%

Undrafted Free Agents - 17%

Former 2nd Rounders - 15%

Former 3rd Rounders - 13%

Former 4th Rounders - 10%

As amazing as this stat is, then consider that in most cases former 1st and 2nd rounders are being payed quite a bit more than UFA's, so the team has a certain amount of pressure to play the drafted players and give them every opportunity to fail. Yet, UFA's STILL make up almost as many of the NFL starters as 1st rounders!!! Bottom line, UFA's are crucial to a teams' success.

Keep in mind that there are only 32 1st & 32 2nd round picks every year. There are hundreds of undrafted players out there.

That doesn't really change the fact that UFA's, despite not being selected in the top 250 players each year, still win way more than their fair share of jobs. Think about this, in a 5 year period, the NFL drafts over 1,250 players, yet UFA's end up starting more games than 60% of those players!

Your math is still bad... The sheer number really matters. Lets say this is out of 704 starters in the league (I don't know what special teamers they're counting, and if they are counting everyone who started a single game, or whatever... but 22 starters x 32 teams=704)

This year there have been 472 undrafted free agents signed... lets say that's high... lets say it's only 400 normally.

Lets also say the NFL represents 10 years of draft classes (I know there are older guys out there, but there are also a lot of younger guys who have retired -- and the math will come out even anyway).

That's 320 1st rounders, 320 second rounders, 330 3rd rounders, 330 4th rounders, 1240 late round guys and 4000 UDFAs.

Last year, 141 first rounders starters (20% of 704)... 106 2nd rounders, 91 3rd rounders, and 70 4th rounders, 176 late round guys and 120 Undrafted Free Agents.

So about 44% of the guys drafted in the 1st round in the last 10 years were starting last year. 33% of the 2nd round, 28% of the 3rd round, 22% of the 4th round, 14% of the late rounders, but only 3% of the UDFAs.

Those percentages are a little off because the league really represents more draft years and they might be counting a whole lot more starters than I am, but they should be off uniformly.

Any way you cut it, the 1st rounders are almost 15 times more likely to be starting. The late rounders are almost 5 times more likely to be starting.

Put it another way: out of those 12 UDFAs the Skins are bringing into camp, chances are only 1 is ever going to make it as a starter (we don't actually have the information to know the number of people who EVER start, but it shouldn't be more than 1 in 12 based on what we do know).

YEah, but who really cares what percentage of UFA's make it? Point is, teams get 250 chances to select any player they want. Yet, UFA's still make teams and contribute better than all categories except 1st rounders. With the hundreds of Million$ spent on these players' contracts, scouting them, the Combine, interviews, background checks etc, UFA's still contribute more. I don't care if it is 1% or 50%, it is amazing and shows that what it takes to be a starter in the NFL cannot be measured or calculated with very much accuracy by the some of the highest paid professionals in the world.