The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

VetSkinsFan wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:Everyone eventually gets clobbered. Heck, he'd get clobbered a few times even with a good line. It's a new offense, new recievers, new coaches. It will not all come together like magic. I'm talking about our offensive line. It will be better this year. This year we have a QB that can pull the trigger when he has to. We have veteran RB's that can produce, even if their shelf life is 1/3 of a season, we have 3 of them.

I thought my example was obvious enough, but let me dumb it down so there's no confusion.

When Mcnabb gets hit in a fashion that puts him on IR behind this offensive line that I feel is not going to be starting caliber as a whole. After McNabb is hit in this fashion that forces McNabb on to injured reserve, we are then reduced to Grossman starting for the washington redskins. In my opinion, Grossman is a downgrade to Campbell and we will be in a worse situation due to not addressing the offensive line in an adequate fashion.

Is that simple and blunt enough?

I agree with Vet. At this point, the odds of our improving the OL to any extent aren't good and the idea that we'll end up big time losers with Grossman are excellent. Even if McNabb stays healthy, we may have trouble moving the ball. Okung will probably be our only above average offensive lineman and he'll be a rookie. Also, and we tend to overlook this: McNabb is not an accurate passer. Considering our OL, which has really not been addressed, McNabb might prove an ineffective one-- even worse than Campbell. If our OL doesn't magically improve before the season starts, I predict that McNabb's numbers will be inferior to Campbell's.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

We haven't had the draft?
There are potential trades that could happen.
There will be more releases and casualties due to the cap.
We have guys who played well last year that were young but got hurt.

I agree with all of your points except for the third. With the uncapped year there is really no reason for teams to wait to cut players, so I think that there will be a lot less of these types of cuts happening this year than in most years.

Some teams will cut players this year when they don't have to worry about the cap hits.

I don't think that Coach Reid is calling the shots over there in Philthy anymore.. I think the FO is making those calls (Vick, etc) and I think Andy is sick of it and wants out. I'll even bet this will be his last year in that stinking town.

Andy knows this... and I think getting rid of McNabb to the Skins is his way of sayng "F you" to the iggles, secretly. Why would you trade a Pro Bowler to a rival? This is wrong on so many levels.

With that said.. sign him to a 3 year deal, and lets beat the wheels off of Philly for the next 3 years.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:Everyone eventually gets clobbered. Heck, he'd get clobbered a few times even with a good line. It's a new offense, new recievers, new coaches. It will not all come together like magic. I'm talking about our offensive line. It will be better this year. This year we have a QB that can pull the trigger when he has to. We have veteran RB's that can produce, even if their shelf life is 1/3 of a season, we have 3 of them.

I thought my example was obvious enough, but let me dumb it down so there's no confusion.

When Mcnabb gets hit in a fashion that puts him on IR behind this offensive line that I feel is not going to be starting caliber as a whole. After McNabb is hit in this fashion that forces McNabb on to injured reserve, we are then reduced to Grossman starting for the washington redskins. In my opinion, Grossman is a downgrade to Campbell and we will be in a worse situation due to not addressing the offensive line in an adequate fashion.

Is that simple and blunt enough?

So you think a successful SB winning coach like Shanahan would just let that be. He wouldn't do his Zoneblocking scheme to give McNabb a sec. or two more than Soup had last year. The same coach who can put any RB behind the line he built in Denver and make them successful. And that a pro bowl caliber QB like McNabb knows this (weak Oline) going in that he will not adjust his read and release so that he does not get hurt. He will get hit, everyone does, but good QBs know how to minimize the damage, specially one as mobile as McNabb. You think that our beloved team would be just as inept to go 4-12 this season? I'm not saying we will win the SuperBowl, I'm not saying he will magically "fix" the Oline, but he will make it work, make it better than last year. Just by adding McNabb back there helps the Oline. Now, is this simple or blunt enough for you or do you want me to dumb it down.

IMHO McRibb wouldn't have come here if Mike didn't have a plan for the offensive line. It's not as if they don't sit down and discuss what the plans for the team are and what the aim is. McRibb isn't an idiot, he came here because there's a plan.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:IMHO McRibb wouldn't have come here if Mike didn't have a plan for the offensive line. It's not as if they don't sit down and discuss what the plans for the team are and what the aim is. McRibb isn't an idiot, he came here because there's a plan.

Or didn't want to be SHIPPED to Al Davis out west

SKINFAN wrote:maybe they will line him up in shotgun.. Hard to guage where the line will be this year, but I'm positively sure that it will be better than last year.. Might not be by much but it should and will be better.

It's going to be WAY better for several reasons.

What is rarely discussed among the expert analysts is the close relationships between the run and pass game, and how they can either help or hurt each other. Starting out, the o-line was already under undue pressure based an offense which lacked innovation in scheme .. along with being executed by a QB who struggled not only to make plays down field even when he had time to throw, but also a guy who often times drifted into the pass rush rather than move away from it. This coupled with his slow decision making .. even on short throws, would have put a tremendous burden on any o-line, let alone an already weak and injury depleted line.

Defenses knew that 90% of the Redskin pass offense would occur inside 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, allowing them to keep stacking the box without much risk of being punished for it. This allowed defenses to crowd the areas with defenders, placing them in position to play run or pass support directly from their starting alignments. In short, the ineffectiveness of the down field passing game was a self fulfilling prophecy, which also did more to hurt the run game than it did to help.

A bad scheme devised and implemented by a lousy coach way over his head, and run by a bad QB with an injury decimated o-line produced what should have been expected ... a total disaster. And it did. And it was not ALL because of the line ... the problems were far greater than just a poor o-line.

There will be new bodies up front ... along with a proven offensive scheme, and a proven veteran QB that actually has a clue. This will do more to help the play of the o-line than just adding better athletes up front could accomplish on their own.

Once again, if you look at the Redskins in the first half of 2008, Portis was on pace to have a 2000 yard season, and the Redskins were leading the NFL in rushing. Even then, this offense had trouble making plays down field in the passing game. One look at the situational stats will prove that. The point? The point is, defenses figured out that the Redskin offense was a one trick pony ... and the way to defeat it was to stack the box, stop the run, and come after the QB. From the mid point of 2008, till the final bell in 2009, that was the proven formula, and Zorn/Campbell did nothing to change that.

RayNAustin wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:maybe they will line him up in shotgun.. Hard to guage where the line will be this year, but I'm positively sure that it will be better than last year.. Might not be by much but it should and will be better.

It's going to be WAY better for several reasons.

What is rarely discussed among the expert analysts is the close relationships between the run and pass game, and how they can either help or hurt each other. Starting out, the o-line was already under undue pressure based an offense which lacked innovation in scheme .. along with being executed by a QB who struggled not only to make plays down field even when he had time to throw, but also a guy who often times drifted into the pass rush rather than move away from it. This coupled with his slow decision making .. even on short throws, would have put a tremendous burden on any o-line, let alone an already weak and injury depleted line.

Defenses knew that 90% of the Redskin pass offense would occur inside 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, allowing them to keep stacking the box without much risk of being punished for it. This allowed defenses to crowd the areas with defenders, placing them in position to play run or pass support directly from their starting alignments. In short, the ineffectiveness of the down field passing game was a self fulfilling prophecy, which also did more to hurt the run game than it did to help.

A bad scheme devised and implemented by a lousy coach way over his head, and run by a bad QB with an injury decimated o-line produced what should have been expected ... a total disaster. And it did. And it was not ALL because of the line ... the problems were far greater than just a poor o-line.

There will be new bodies up front ... along with a proven offensive scheme, and a proven veteran QB that actually has a clue. This will do more to help the play of the o-line than just adding better athletes up front could accomplish on their own.

Once again, if you look at the Redskins in the first half of 2008, Portis was on pace to have a 2000 yard season, and the Redskins were leading the NFL in rushing. Even then, this offense had trouble making plays down field in the passing game. One look at the situational stats will prove that. The point? The point is, defenses figured out that the Redskin offense was a one trick pony ... and the way to defeat it was to stack the box, stop the run, and come after the QB. From the mid point of 2008, till the final bell in 2009, that was the proven formula, and Zorn/Campbell did nothing to change that.

An alternate opinion would be that the line was bad even for a college team and they got pwnd by the man across from them almost every play, greatly disrupting the run and pass game. Not that McNabb can't help, but if other pieces don't improve we won't score consistently.

The offensive line will be a lot more effective this year because of the better coaching, better game planning and the huge upgrade at the QB position - I would expect that we'll also have better players

the offensive line will not be really good here until towards the end of next year at the ealiest BUT the offensive line is going to be much better than last year - that is a given and mainly because of the better offensive coaching and better QB

SkinsJock wrote:The offensive line will be a lot more effective this year because of the better coaching, better game planning and the huge upgrade at the QB position - I would expect that we'll also have better players

the offensive line will not be really good here until towards the end of next year at the ealiest BUT the offensive line is going to be much better than last year - that is a given and mainly because of the better offensive coaching and better QB

You can have Joe Montana and Vince Lombardi, but if you have Stephon Heyer and God knows who vs. Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck, you won't score points.

The first thing you learn as a lineman, even in peewee, is that Rb's and Qb's want to have their names in the paper. And they can't have their names in the paper if you don't do your job.

brad7686 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:maybe they will line him up in shotgun.. Hard to guage where the line will be this year, but I'm positively sure that it will be better than last year.. Might not be by much but it should and will be better.

It's going to be WAY better for several reasons.

What is rarely discussed among the expert analysts is the close relationships between the run and pass game, and how they can either help or hurt each other. Starting out, the o-line was already under undue pressure based an offense which lacked innovation in scheme .. along with being executed by a QB who struggled not only to make plays down field even when he had time to throw, but also a guy who often times drifted into the pass rush rather than move away from it. This coupled with his slow decision making .. even on short throws, would have put a tremendous burden on any o-line, let alone an already weak and injury depleted line.

Defenses knew that 90% of the Redskin pass offense would occur inside 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, allowing them to keep stacking the box without much risk of being punished for it. This allowed defenses to crowd the areas with defenders, placing them in position to play run or pass support directly from their starting alignments. In short, the ineffectiveness of the down field passing game was a self fulfilling prophecy, which also did more to hurt the run game than it did to help.

A bad scheme devised and implemented by a lousy coach way over his head, and run by a bad QB with an injury decimated o-line produced what should have been expected ... a total disaster. And it did. And it was not ALL because of the line ... the problems were far greater than just a poor o-line.

There will be new bodies up front ... along with a proven offensive scheme, and a proven veteran QB that actually has a clue. This will do more to help the play of the o-line than just adding better athletes up front could accomplish on their own.

Once again, if you look at the Redskins in the first half of 2008, Portis was on pace to have a 2000 yard season, and the Redskins were leading the NFL in rushing. Even then, this offense had trouble making plays down field in the passing game. One look at the situational stats will prove that. The point? The point is, defenses figured out that the Redskin offense was a one trick pony ... and the way to defeat it was to stack the box, stop the run, and come after the QB. From the mid point of 2008, till the final bell in 2009, that was the proven formula, and Zorn/Campbell did nothing to change that.

An alternate opinion would be that the line was bad even for a college team and they got pwnd by the man across from them almost every play, greatly disrupting the run and pass game. Not that McNabb can't help, but if other pieces don't improve we won't score consistently.

Yeah, well I watched all the games myself, and I saw plenty of missed opportunities ... a lot of holding the ball too long .. and a bunch of dump offs where there was more "perceived" pressure than actual pressure.

And it was pretty easy to predict what the Redskin offense would do in various situations, namely third downs ... 3rd 8= 6 yard pass. 3rd 6 = 4 yard pass.

Green Bay had a pretty porous o-line too, but not too much was made of it because Rogers was able to make plays in spite of it.

Yes gentlemen, you can still make plays without the Hogs.

brad7686 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The offensive line will be a lot more effective this year because of the better coaching, better game planning and the huge upgrade at the QB position - I would expect that we'll also have better players
the offensive line will not be really good here until towards the end of next year at the ealiest BUT the offensive line is going to be much better than last year - that is a given and mainly because of the better offensive coaching and better QB

You can have Joe Montana and Vince Lombardi, but if you have Stephon Heyer and God knows who vs. Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck, you won't score points.

The first thing you learn as a lineman, even in peewee, is that Rb's and Qb's want to have their names in the paper. And they can't have their names in the paper if you don't do your job.

ALL I'm saying is you should look forward not backward - mark my words - we will not see the same offensive line play here this season that we saw last season - for those of you that don't pick up things too quick, here it comes again - we will not see the same offensive line play here this season

things are different here this year and Mike & Kyle Shanahan will have a lot of different things happening on offense plus we will have different players playing this season - PLUS we have a QB that makes decisions a lot quicker

This offensive line needs to be better and it will take time but, this season, this offensive line will play a whole lot more effective that the line that was here last season, guranteed

RayNAustin wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:maybe they will line him up in shotgun.. Hard to guage where the line will be this year, but I'm positively sure that it will be better than last year.. Might not be by much but it should and will be better.

It's going to be WAY better for several reasons.

What is rarely discussed among the expert analysts is the close relationships between the run and pass game, and how they can either help or hurt each other. Starting out, the o-line was already under undue pressure based an offense which lacked innovation in scheme .. along with being executed by a QB who struggled not only to make plays down field even when he had time to throw, but also a guy who often times drifted into the pass rush rather than move away from it. This coupled with his slow decision making .. even on short throws, would have put a tremendous burden on any o-line, let alone an already weak and injury depleted line.

Defenses knew that 90% of the Redskin pass offense would occur inside 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, allowing them to keep stacking the box without much risk of being punished for it. This allowed defenses to crowd the areas with defenders, placing them in position to play run or pass support directly from their starting alignments. In short, the ineffectiveness of the down field passing game was a self fulfilling prophecy, which also did more to hurt the run game than it did to help.

A bad scheme devised and implemented by a lousy coach way over his head, and run by a bad QB with an injury decimated o-line produced what should have been expected ... a total disaster. And it did. And it was not ALL because of the line ... the problems were far greater than just a poor o-line.

There will be new bodies up front ... along with a proven offensive scheme, and a proven veteran QB that actually has a clue. This will do more to help the play of the o-line than just adding better athletes up front could accomplish on their own.

Once again, if you look at the Redskins in the first half of 2008, Portis was on pace to have a 2000 yard season, and the Redskins were leading the NFL in rushing. Even then, this offense had trouble making plays down field in the passing game. One look at the situational stats will prove that. The point? The point is, defenses figured out that the Redskin offense was a one trick pony ... and the way to defeat it was to stack the box, stop the run, and come after the QB. From the mid point of 2008, till the final bell in 2009, that was the proven formula, and Zorn/Campbell did nothing to change that.

An alternate opinion would be that the line was bad even for a college team and they got pwnd by the man across from them almost every play, greatly disrupting the run and pass game. Not that McNabb can't help, but if other pieces don't improve we won't score consistently.

Yeah, well I watched all the games myself, and I saw plenty of missed opportunities ... a lot of holding the ball too long .. and a bunch of dump offs where there was more "perceived" pressure than actual pressure.

And it was pretty easy to predict what the Redskin offense would do in various situations, namely third downs ... 3rd 8= 6 yard pass. 3rd 6 = 4 yard pass.

Green Bay had a pretty porous o-line too, but not too much was made of it because Rogers was able to make plays in spite of it.

Yes gentlemen, you can still make plays without the Hogs.

I'll give the packers credit, they moved the chains with a pretty bad line. But last season it was a lot less bombs to greg jennings and a lot more short passes to donald driver. Kind of like how we went to Davis all year. We had nobody else who was a reliable possession guy. Obviously, if they did get some time, Jennings routinely gets 5-6 steps behind the defense, so they will throw to him. Also, they can run block and have had stability on offense.

But mostly it was good coaching, good qb'ing, good receiving. If you have ALL that you may be able to overcome a bad line. We never had all of that acting together. A line would have helped bring it all together. And with a new scheme coming in, blocking would help.

The whole line situation killed me because I had Jennings in Fantasy and he did nothing for a long time.