The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm saying 7-9 is about as good as we do unless there's a miracle within the oline. 6-10 if heyer is rt.

LOL! I agree if Heyer is RT it will hurt our chances. I really do think Shanny is smart enough to at least have a solid option at RT. At least I know Shanny is smart enough to pull Heyer if he is terrible.

For example when Zorn was at the helm. The Steelers game if anyone remembers. JC got sacked seven times and pressured numerous times. Not once did I see a player on the line get pulled. I dont even remember a shuffle in the Oline. A decent coach would notice this and at least try out a backup. So I do have faith Shanny will fill the roster with suitable lineman.

I predict when we don't make the playoffs, and we don't go from 28th to top 12 by signing various old people, many of you will try and change your story.

brad7686 wrote:I predict when we don't make the playoffs, and we don't go from 28th to top 12 by signing various old people, many of you will try and change your story.

Isn't that interesting? My prediction is pretty much the opposite.

I like the fact that Bruce and Mike will do the best they can to try and win as many games as possible this season - that seems obvious by what they have done. I also do not expect to much this season because of how bad that offense looked last season BUT I do expect that these guys can have a consistently competitive product on the field each week by the begining of the 2012 season and maybe even as quick as halfway through next season

I'm predicting that we're a lot better off than we would have been with Campbell as our starting QB here no matter who we add to the offensive line

SkinsJock wrote:I like the fact that Bruce and Mike will do the best they can to try and win as many games as possible this season - that seems obvious by what they have done. I also do not expect to much this season because of how bad that offense looked last season BUT I do expect that these guys can have a consistently competitive product on the field each week by the begining of the 2012 season and maybe even as quick as halfway through next season

I'm predicting that we're a lot better off than we would have been with Campbell as our starting QB here no matter who we add to the offensive line

I agree with your analogy. The thing I would like to add is if everything
was the same last years team only McNabb was the QB. What would the
win loss difference be?

We lost how many games by less than a TD? I would beg to differ that
with McNabb some of those games wouldn't have even been close to
a Loss. So.... With the predictions of 8-8 this year is basically saying
were no better off than last year. LOL

We now have a QB no matter what! He's got to be the best I've seen
as a Redskin fan in the past 35 years.

If Jason Campbell had a killer instinct, we would have won 3-4 more games last year. McNabb (I still don't like him, but I'll get over it) definitely has that killer instinct, so that right there adds 3 wins to our team. He's also a much better QB than Campbell, so there's another win or two.

Shanahan will bring anywhere from 2-5 wins as an improvement over Zorn. I suspect our defense will be worse this year, and the o-line only marginally better, so subtract 1-2 wins on account of the holes we have.

By my calculations that puts us in the 9-7 or 10-6 range. If we can catch a few breaks, we'll take the division.

Irn-Bru wrote:If Jason Campbell had a killer instinct, we would have won 3-4 more games last year. McNabb (I still don't like him, but I'll get over it) definitely has that killer instinct, so that right there adds 3 wins to our team. He's also a much better QB than Campbell, so there's another win or two.

Shanahan will bring anywhere from 2-5 wins as an improvement over Zorn. I suspect our defense will be worse this year, and the o-line only marginally better, so subtract 1-2 wins on account of the holes we have.

By my calculations that puts us in the 9-7 or 10-6 range. If we can catch a few breaks, we'll take the division.

Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up. Yes, Shanahan and McNabb make us better. But we are still not better than the Giants or Cowboys, and arguably not the Eagles either. If McNabb had been here last year he wouldn't have even finished the year healthy behind out oline.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:If Jason Campbell had a killer instinct, we would have won 3-4 more games last year. McNabb (I still don't like him, but I'll get over it) definitely has that killer instinct, so that right there adds 3 wins to our team. He's also a much better QB than Campbell, so there's another win or two.

Shanahan will bring anywhere from 2-5 wins as an improvement over Zorn. I suspect our defense will be worse this year, and the o-line only marginally better, so subtract 1-2 wins on account of the holes we have.

By my calculations that puts us in the 9-7 or 10-6 range. If we can catch a few breaks, we'll take the division.

Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up. Yes, Shanahan and McNabb make us better. But we are still not better than the Giants or Cowboys, and arguably not the Eagles either. If McNabb had been here last year he wouldn't have even finished the year healthy behind out oline.

I disagree with this assumption. Yes, I know there were times when Campbell had absolutely no time in the pocket, but other times the sack was all on him. In addition to making quicker decisions, and getting the ball out faster, McNabb has pocket skills that Campbell has never shown. McNabb can scramble, and is hard to bring down, whereas JC would fold at the first sign of a rush, lose downfield focus, and often run into the arms of the rushers. Add to that McNabb's ability to actually slide at the end of a scramble, and he is less likely to take the beating that JC did.

McNabb does make us better for sure in many aspects, but mainly as a leader!. JC had superstar moments and also pee wee league moments, with McNabb there is much more trust. With that said, this season will be a settling in year with new coaches, personnel, etc. 2011 - 2012 season I think the sky's the limit and nothing short of a NFC Title, and a deep run in the playoffs would be a major setback.

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:If Jason Campbell had a killer instinct, we would have won 3-4 more games last year. McNabb (I still don't like him, but I'll get over it) definitely has that killer instinct, so that right there adds 3 wins to our team. He's also a much better QB than Campbell, so there's another win or two.

Shanahan will bring anywhere from 2-5 wins as an improvement over Zorn. I suspect our defense will be worse this year, and the o-line only marginally better, so subtract 1-2 wins on account of the holes we have.

By my calculations that puts us in the 9-7 or 10-6 range. If we can catch a few breaks, we'll take the division.

Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up. Yes, Shanahan and McNabb make us better. But we are still not better than the Giants or Cowboys, and arguably not the Eagles either. If McNabb had been here last year he wouldn't have even finished the year healthy behind out oline.

I disagree with this assumption. Yes, I know there were times when Campbell had absolutely no time in the pocket, but other times the sack was all on him. In addition to making quicker decisions, and getting the ball out faster, McNabb has pocket skills that Campbell has never shown. McNabb can scramble, and is hard to bring down, whereas JC would fold at the first sign of a rush, lose downfield focus, and often run into the arms of the rushers. Add to that McNabb's ability to actually slide at the end of a scramble, and he is less likely to take the beating that JC did.

Maybe you need to go back and watch the Eagles' last two games from last year when their offensive line was injured and struggling.

Unless we draft Okung and avoid the temptation to trade down, as well as find a monster RT, we'll be lucky to finish 7-9 or so, depending on the breaks. If we do get Okung and the monster RT, and everyone stays healthy, we'll have a shot at 10-6 or so. Unlike some on this board, I don't
have many illusions about Shany. It should be clear now to everyone that he's not a guy who will build through the draft, but will patch as he can for his whole tenure here. Actually though, even the best teams do it and that's OK with me, as long as he doesn't trade top draft choices for over-the-hill vets, which McNabb might or might not prove to be.
As for the acquisition of McNabb. It's a gamble, if Campbell is traded. Not a cause for general rejoicing. The Eagles know him very well. We are gambling that we know him better, which is not all that likely. I personally believe he's only an above-average player now, not a super-star. If we don't fix the OL, he won't help much. Nor will having Shany on the sidelines and Allen as GM help much either.

Deadskins wrote:brad7686, CanesSkins26, and Redskin in Canada, will continue to snipe and gripe until the Redskins win another SB...

At least we put our mouth where our views are instead hoping or wishing upon a star.

Prove us wrong!!! Win a SB and then call us out. In the meantime, put up or shut up.

We all thought that there was a PLAN to build up the team in 1 to 2 years. We were willing to take the bitter pill of a losing season as an investment in the future.

Instead, you have a bet to make it work NOW with a very INCOMPLETE team. Not wise. Very Danny Snyder if you ask me.

As the classic statement goes:

Everything must change so that everything stays the same.

Look it up in Google, a classic of the Italian literature.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Deadskins wrote:brad7686, CanesSkins26, and Redskin in Canada, will continue to snipe and gripe until the Redskins win another SB...

At least we put our mouth where our views are instead hoping or wishing upon a star.

Prove us wrong!!! Win a SB and then call us out. In the meantime, put up or shut up.

We all thought that there was a PLAN to build up the team in 1 to 2 years. We were willing to take the bitter pill of a losing season as an investment in the future.

Instead, you have a bet to make it work NOW with a very INCOMPLETE team. Not wise. Very Danny Snyder if you ask me.

As the classic statement goes:

Everything must change so that everything stays the same.

Look it up in Google, a classic of the Italian literature.

Walk and chew gum. Do them at the same time much?

crazyhorse1 wrote:Unless we draft Okung and avoid the temptation to trade down, as well as find a monster RT, we'll be lucky to finish 7-9 or so, depending on the breaks. If we do get Okung and the monster RT, and everyone stays healthy, we'll have a shot at 10-6 or so. Unlike some on this board, I don't
have many illusions about Shany. It should be clear now to everyone that he's not a guy who will build through the draft, but will patch as he can for his whole tenure here. Actually though, even the best teams do it and that's OK with me, as long as he doesn't trade top draft choices for over-the-hill vets, which McNabb might or might not prove to be.
As for the acquisition of McNabb. It's a gamble, if Campbell is traded. Not a cause for general rejoicing. The Eagles know him very well. We are gambling that we know him better, which is not all that likely. I personally believe he's only an above-average player now, not a super-star. If we don't fix the OL, he won't help much. Nor will having Shany on the sidelines and Allen as GM help much either.

Remember next year the FA class is going to be huge along with the draft.
This year I can live with 8-8 or better based on the players we have now.
There are still alot of guy's out there that will be drafted and subsequently
cut prior to the start of the season.

We have time to get the pieces together with the new leadership..

I like Shan the man and was impressed by his work ethic in Denver.
The thing thats going to work for us concerning the Eagles knowing Donovan is...

They don't know how Shany's son is going to call the offence and to
date we don't know about the "D".
Is it 4-3 or 3-4 or change - up look a 4-3 and switch to 3-4 or visa
versa. Thats this year next season it'll be another story.

Hail

bbatty wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I like the fact that Bruce and Mike will do the best they can to try and win as many games as possible this season - that seems obvious by what they have done. I also do not expect to much this season because of how bad that offense looked last season BUT I do expect that these guys can have a consistently competitive product on the field each week by the begining of the 2012 season and maybe even as quick as halfway through next season

I'm predicting that we're a lot better off than we would have been with Campbell as our starting QB no matter who we add to the offensive line

I agree with your analogy. The thing I would like to add is if everything was the same as last years team, only McNabb was the QB. What would the win loss difference be?
We lost how many games by less than a TD?
I would beg to differ that with McNabb some of those games wouldn't have even been close to a Loss.
So.... With the predictions of 8-8 this year is basically saying we're no better off than last year.
We now have a QB - He's got to be the best I've seen as a Redskin fan in the past 35 years.

I'm sorry but in the NFL there is no way that you can look at teams winning and losing like you described - there are many times that the better team loses games they should win and vice versa

we are an improved franchise but I don't think we'll be consistently good for another year or more - that's all I want to see - I'm tired of hoping we get lucky and win a game - I want a team that deserves to win because they play better than the other team each week, not because we got lucky

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Deadskins wrote:brad7686, CanesSkins26, and Redskin in Canada, will continue to snipe and gripe until the Redskins win another SB...

At least we put our mouth where our views are instead hoping or wishing upon a star.

Prove us wrong!!! Win a SB and then call us out. In the meantime, put up or shut up.

1. Hoping and wishing upon a Redskin (I'll leave the stars for you to worship ) is where my views are, so how does that make you different?
2. I'm too old and just one fan, so how can I win a SB?
3. You prove me right every time you post.
4. The SB is in February. It's pretty easy to say "don't call me out" in early April.
5. I'll never shut up. You should know that by now, RiC.

Most of our losses last year was because we could not score more than 17 pts. With this D, and this new O and the new coach we will be competitive again.

SkinsJock wrote:

bbatty wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I like the fact that Bruce and Mike will do the best they can to try and win as many games as possible this season - that seems obvious by what they have done. I also do not expect to much this season because of how bad that offense looked last season BUT I do expect that these guys can have a consistently competitive product on the field each week by the begining of the 2012 season and maybe even as quick as halfway through next season

I'm predicting that we're a lot better off than we would have been with Campbell as our starting QB no matter who we add to the offensive line

I agree with your analogy. The thing I would like to add is if everything was the same as last years team, only McNabb was the QB. What would the win loss difference be?
We lost how many games by less than a TD?
I would beg to differ that with McNabb some of those games wouldn't have even been close to a Loss.
So.... With the predictions of 8-8 this year is basically saying we're no better off than last year.
We now have a QB - He's got to be the best I've seen as a Redskin fan in the past 35 years.

I'm sorry but in the NFL there is no way that you can look at teams winning and losing like you described - there are many times that the better team loses games they should win and vice versa

we are an improved franchise but I don't think we'll be consistently good for another year or more - that's all I want to see - I'm tired of hoping we get lucky and win a game - I want a team that deserves to win because they play better than the other team each week, not because we got lucky

Why not? Do you mean like the drubbing we took from Detriot last year,
or maybe it was how we did against the Saints. Bottom line - McNabb is
a game changer, people defend differently against him than they do against Jason C.

I have nothing against JC at all, I like him, he just doesn't have the same type of attitude in games or with the other teamates.

You know I've watched the mantra over the years of bringin in new coaches, new players to be the fix all and got my hopes up.
This time there's a difference, not only a new coach with an attitude and a plan but a FRANCHISE QB..

Wow - I'll give em some time and don't expect a SB this year. McNabb has done well almost every year without alot of supporting cast.

Shan the man has also done well and has never had a "D" like we have, now we finally have the pieces coming together for one heck of a "O".

The "D" won't have to live on the field for 3 quarters and be drug out by the 4th.

Just my 2 cents worth. I'm excited about this one and won't be any more disappointed than I have been in the past if it don't work out. I can say
I have never seen the potential of what can be as I see now.

Hail

bbatty wrote:I'll give em some time and don't expect a SB this year.
McNabb has done well almost every year without alot of supporting cast.
Shan the man has also done well and has never had a "D" like we have, now we finally have the pieces coming together for one heck of a "O".

The "D" won't have to live on the field for 3 quarters and be drug out by the 4th.

Just my 2 cents worth. I'm excited about this one and won't be any more disappointed than I have been in the past if it don't work out.
I can say I have never seen the potential of what can be as I see now

it's all good it's just that many of us remember a group of guys that played together much better than we have seen in this town for a long time and a group of players that made you think they could and would win each week because they prepared and played better

we are looking forward to seeing that again here and these guys are doing a good job

it is going to take time but we appear to be on the right track

the Redskins' offensive line needs a lot of help

BTW - a belated welcome to the site

I'm agreeing with BBatty on dis one

crazyhorse1 wrote:Unless we draft Okung and avoid the temptation to trade down, as well as find a monster RT, we'll be lucky to finish 7-9 or so, depending on the breaks. If we do get Okung and the monster RT, and everyone stays healthy, we'll have a shot at 10-6 or so. Unlike some on this board, I don't
have many illusions about Shany. It should be clear now to everyone that he's not a guy who will build through the draft, but will patch as he can for his whole tenure here. Actually though, even the best teams do it and that's OK with me, as long as he doesn't trade top draft choices for over-the-hill vets, which McNabb might or might not prove to be.
As for the acquisition of McNabb. It's a gamble, if Campbell is traded. Not a cause for general rejoicing. The Eagles know him very well. We are gambling that we know him better, which is not all that likely. I personally believe he's only an above-average player now, not a super-star. If we don't fix the OL, he won't help much. Nor will having Shany on the sidelines and Allen as GM help much either.

Living in Philly the last 9 years I have to say that I would not put any stock in the idea that the Eagles know something about McNabb that everyone else does not. They have their plans which are to stay young and cheap. They would rather be right about their plan than do right by important players (Dawkins, Westbrook, McNabb, Vincent, etc.). I honestly think that if Reid had built the offense around McNabb's skills rather than his plan McNabb would have won a Super Bowl.

cleg wrote:Living in Philly the last 9 years I have to say that I would not put any stock in the idea that the Eagles know something about McNabb that everyone else does not. They have their plans which are to stay young and cheap. They would rather be right about their plan than do right by important players (Dawkins, Westbrook, McNabb, Vincent, etc.). I honestly think that if Reid had built the offense around McNabb's skills rather than his plan McNabb would have won a Super Bowl.

filly fans down here i know wanted andy fired years ago, same way up there cleg?

SkinsJock wrote:

bbatty wrote:I'll give em some time and don't expect a SB this year.
McNabb has done well almost every year without alot of supporting cast.
Shan the man has also done well and has never had a "D" like we have, now we finally have the pieces coming together for one heck of a "O".

The "D" won't have to live on the field for 3 quarters and be drug out by the 4th.

Just my 2 cents worth. I'm excited about this one and won't be any more disappointed than I have been in the past if it don't work out.
I can say I have never seen the potential of what can be as I see now

it's all good it's just that many of us remember a group of guys that played together much better than we have seen in this town for a long time and a group of players that made you think they could and would win each week because they prepared and played better

we are looking forward to seeing that again here and these guys are doing a good job

it is going to take time but we appear to be on the right track

the Redskins' offensive line needs a lot of help

BTW - a belated welcome to the site

Thanks - I've been a reader in the past and haven't ever posted on
this site until yesterday. Look forward to the future.

Hail

10-6 maybe 11-5 Here's why.

Last year, talent wise, the Redskins were an 8-8 team that suffered because of being poorly coached and poorly prepared resulting in a 4-12 season. Literally, Zorn ran a very weak program ... a soft training camp for two years, and in spite of personnel upgrades and a weaker schedule, the team regressed in 2009. Some of that was certainly due to an inordinate amount of injuries on the o-line, while a non-quantifiable amount was due to a looker room filled with back biting and players not confident in the coaches .... a questionable scheme and poor tactical decisions .. poor play calling and in game adjustments. The situation was a total disaster across the board. That coupled with a QB who, in spite of fairly decent to fairly good stats, has never become a play maker at any time in his entire career, with a history of poor point production. The results were a team that imploded completely.

Now, things are COMPLETELY different. I was not optimistic about major improvements offensively with the prospect of going into the season given the choice of Campbell and Grossman as the QBs. I expected that there would be reasonable improvement based on Shannahan and his system, but the lack of a top flight QB tempered that expectation to measurable improvement, but no dramatic leaps.

The addition of McNabb changes the entire dynamic. He's smart .. he's got excellent playmaking ability .. has spent his entire career in a WC system, and should be able to pick up Shannahan's system very quickly.

Talent wise, McNabb is a top 10 QB in the league, and has worked well with an historically weapon deficient offense in Philly that put the responsibility on his shoulders .. (aside from Westbrook), yet still excelled due to his ability to manufacture plays and points with marginal receiving talent.

With Shannahan, and his proven success at getting great production in the running game ... coupled with what I consider to be a very talented group of young receivers who will benefit greatly from McNabb .. two top flight TEs and Moss, who still can beat coverages deep, the only weak area is at OT, and I expect that before this offseason is over, that will be addressed sufficiently.

Let's keep something in mind here .. aside from all of the injuries along the line last year, the offensive scheme was horrific, with even poor defenses having success against them.

The fact that 90% of the action was within 10 yards of the LOS (and never changed until the Bingo guy came in), coupled with the fact that Campbell couldn't hit the broad side of a barn past 15 yards even when he had time, allowed defenses to play extremely aggressive with little fear of being burned for big plays. That placed even more pressure on a patchwork line, and may even have contributed to the injury issues. The Redskin offense simply didn't stretch defenses AT ALL. That also hurt the run game, the screen game, play action ... the defensive formula was rush one more than there were blockers, and cover the hot reads. Keep the safeties up, and don't worry about the deep stuff. This effectively allowed defenses to crowd the short and intermediate areas, treating the entire field as a virtual Red Zone.

We won't see any of those issues with a Shannahan offense, coupled with McNabb's proven, prolific ability to move, buy time and throw downfield, and a solid running game, defenses will have to play the entire field instead of 20 yards and in.

Look for the offense to post 20+ point average this year, and depending on how well the defense performs ... 10-6 to 12-4 ... so I'll optimistically predict 11-5, and a strong challenge for the NFC East title.

That's because the Shannahan/McNabb combo adds 3 wins to an 8-8 team. (Last year's 4-12 is not an accurate result for the level of talent .. and was due largely to an extremely poor coaching staff, lots of injuries, and a a lost locker room).

RayNAustin wrote:10-6 maybe 11-5 Here's why.

The biggest why not has to be the OL. No disrespect to Shanahan, but no one could turn that disaster around in one year. I'm hoping we get our sud OL at #4, Raback and Docks hold down Center and right guard. I think we're OK though at best with RG and RT is a big issue. We're probably a couple years from the playoffs because of the line. It's hard to win in the NFL when you can't pass or run block.