The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gibbs4Life wrote:No mas Peppers , No mas Sproles...


Feed ME

Peppers hasn't signed any where yet. But he isn't going to even visit with the Skins. He has done a big flip-flop from last year and is now saying he does not want to talk to any 3-4 teams.

Just as well, if you ask me.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Babin looks like a hidden Gem, I wasn't even aware he existed.

Clifton is a necessity because we have no intention of drafting Okung.

I remember Babin switching from DE (in Houston?) to a 3-4 OLB. So I'm assuming that he is where he fits with the Skins after playing some 4-3 DE again last season in Philly.

I like the way that these guys are handling things - more signs that we will add players that help the team but we are not just going to add stars anymore - Jason Taylor was a great addition but just like Archuletta he was not used correctly

this is a team game not fantasy football and the guys in charge now aren't just adding players, they are looking for the right players that will suit what the long term plan is and players that make the other players around them better

sounds like a good way to re-build your franchise

Seriously though....I am all for being conservative, but this is ridiculous. I guarantee you that Mr. Danny is not happy with all of these big names going elsewhere. Heck, I would take a small signing....Larry Foote, Tony Pashos, Artis Hicks, Ryan Clark, anybody!

Dunno why but I got this vision of the owner tied to a chair, trying to get his hands free to grab the cheque book, while Allen and Shanahan look at their football trading cards and say 'peppers? .. nope ' ....'dansby? ... nope' ...

A kind of 'cold turkey' experience I guess

riggofan wrote:I know we're all used to Redskins March madness, but I was pretty happy to wake up and not have a bunch of Redskins Insider text messages on my phone saying we paid tons of money to a bunch of big names.

Seriously, I am extremely encouraged by our moves and non-moves over the last two days. From the players we cut to the players we haven't signed. The biggest thing it says to me is that Shanahan and Bruce Allen are in control right now. Not the Dan!

It also says that nothing yet has been done to strengthen the worse team in the conference and that possibilities have been diminished.

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know why everyone is saying "I, for one, am happy" as if that's a minority opinion. Haven't we all been complaining for years about the typical March FA push and draft pick giveaway?! I think most Skins fans are happy with the way the Redskins have handled this off season so far.

They haven't done zip, haven't even looked interested. Let's face it, if we don't hit the FA market hard this year, we get creamed when the season rolls around.

SkinsJock wrote:I like the way that these guys are handling things - more signs that we will add players that help the team but we are not just going to add stars anymore - Jason Taylor was a great addition but just like Archuletta he was not used correctly

this is a team game not fantasy football and the guys in charge now aren't just adding players, they are looking for the right players that will suit what the long term plan is and players that make the other players around them better

sounds like a good way to re-build your franchise

There is no evidence that what you are saying is true. They should have already decided what players among FA's they want (it was a long off-season) and should be in the process of acquiring them. They have been beaten so far, they are behind and looking bad.

Bash the creator of the thread thats original Why not articulate why you think this wasn't an epic dissapointment for the first day of free agency...

Oooh we signed our own average players! We're converting a 300 pounder to LB! And we aren't interested in Peppers! Yay! Oh and we released a ton of guys to clear cap to do nothing! Hip Hip...

The giants got better today. Us not so much

Wow.... You guys have a serious addiction. Even when you know it's bad for you, you keep going back to it. Truly an addiction.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Wow.... You guys have a serious addiction. Even when you know it's bad for you, you keep going back to it. Truly an addiction.

Can't agree more. I personally find this refreshing.

crazyhorse1 wrote:There is no evidence that what you are saying is true. They should have already decided what players among FA's they want (it was a long off-season) and should be in the process of acquiring them. They have been beaten so far, they are behind and looking bad.

To borrow a phrase from a certain poster, there's zero evidence that what you are saying is true.

To use a recent comparison, compare March 2005 with March 2006. Which one do you think was better for the Skins? And if you think the Archuleta/Lloyd/Randle El acquisitions were better than doing nothing...

...

...why?

Several of the big contracts being passed around today are going to look terrible in hindsight (Burleson's the most obvious candidate, but not the only one). I'm glad it's not the Skins making those mistakes this time around. What remains to be seen, of course, is whether it's a one-year aberration (like 2005 ended up being) or a genuinely sensible approach to roster construction.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Wow.... You guys have a serious addiction. Even when you know it's bad for you, you keep going back to it. Truly an addiction.

Its not my fault Snyder sold me the junk man! He said it would be good for us and said its gonna solve all our problems....lol I bet you Snyder had to have a FA intervention before this season i feel like i need one

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know why everyone is saying "I, for one, am happy" as if that's a minority opinion. Haven't we all been complaining for years about the typical March FA push and draft pick giveaway?! I think most Skins fans are happy with the way the Redskins have handled this off season so far.

They haven't done zip, haven't even looked interested. Let's face it, if we don't hit the FA market hard this year, we get creamed when the season rolls around.

Which of the players out there do you wish we had signed? And for each of the players that you name, do you agree that we should have outbid the team that signed them?

We haven't landed a big name, but I think we will see some moves before the draft.

So we are so conditioned that we can't stand it when we don't go out and sign a high profile FA??? It's a known fact that you can't build a winner via FA...this is what building via the draft looks like....We need to understand that we are in full rebuilding mode and it may take a few years.

DEHog wrote:So we are so conditioned that we can't stand it when we don't go out and sign a high profile FA??? It's a known fact that you can't build a winner via FA...this is what building via the draft looks like....We need to understand that we are in full rebuilding mode and it may take a few years.

Even moreso because the only real names on the market won't be serviceable in 3-4 years. It's entirely incompatible for the Skins to be big players in this year's free agency and to build for the future.

I still haven't figured out which of these posters, bemoaning the lack of action in FA, is secretly Vinny Cerrato.

I'm leaning more towards the ones who are talking about how much Allen sucks as a negotiator for not offering enough money to land these big-namers.

The "uncapped" season is temporary folks.

markshark84 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Wow.... You guys have a serious addiction. Even when you know it's bad for you, you keep going back to it. Truly an addiction.

Can't agree more. I personally find this refreshing.

Is there a 12 step program for this

When has this franchise EVER won with flashy names? THAT'S what Allen is bringing back, and personally, I can't wait. A bunch of blue collar workers. I am SOOOOOO glad we didn't sign Peppers. Dansby would have been nice, but many others can fit the bill until we can draft a LB. Build it through the draft.

Nice work Bruce, keep it up.

Irn-Bru wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know why everyone is saying "I, for one, am happy" as if that's a minority opinion. Haven't we all been complaining for years about the typical March FA push and draft pick giveaway?! I think most Skins fans are happy with the way the Redskins have handled this off season so far.

They haven't done zip, haven't even looked interested. Let's face it, if we don't hit the FA market hard this year, we get creamed when the season rolls around.

Which of the players out there do you wish we had signed? And for each of the players that you name, do you agree that we should have outbid the team that signed them?

We haven't landed a big name, but I think we will see some moves before the draft.

Acquiring Taylor, Dansby, and Rolle would have would have solved our relatively minor needs in one fell swoop and left us free to stock up on young talent for the OL in the draft. We could have afforded each. We need to draft OL for the first two rounds now and can't realistically hope to get good prospects at RB, FS, and LB in rounds 4-7. Our minor needs now can not now be met. Losing Dansby is a big deal. We don't have an LB for the 3-4 who is excellent and probably can't land one.
If we draft a QB in the first round, we will add only one superior OL prospect and things will be a mess. Even with Hicks and Pashos (maybe), both questionable as starters, our OL line still looks terrible. Take a look:

2nd round pick, Dockery (average), Rabach (below average), Hicks (a back up-below average), Pashos (marginal starter).

The above OL will not be competitive.

Remaining needs on offense not likely filled by draft: RB

Remaining needs on D unlikely to be met by draft. In order: DE. LB, FS

I'd like to believe that Allen and Shanhan have some masterly plan in mind that will surprise me, but I don't. Neither or them have a rep for a keen eye for talent or building a team personnel-wise. I think they're a couple of duds at this, that Allen is a lightweight and Shanahan is a great on-field coach but can't build a team.

I also think that they will blow the draft. Months ago I expressed my reservations about both of them and so far see no sign at all that I was wrong. On the contrary, they show every sign of justifying my worse fears.

It's already clear that they're trying to round up older, second rate offensive lineman to fill holes. That won't work. I'm not impressed, but rather depressed by this, even while amused that some on this board think the old guys will function as extra coaches and lockerroom leaders rather than fight to keep their jobs by every stratagem imaginable.

It looks like Bradford is going to be gone before we pick. If we don't respond to that by picking Okung and pick for OL in the second round, I'll probably go a little nuts.

crazyhorse1 wrote:I'd like to believe that Allen and Shanhan have some masterly plan in mind that will surprise me, but I don't. Neither or them have a rep for a keen eye for talent or building a team personnel-wise. I think they're a couple of duds at this, that Allen is a lightweight and Shanahan is a great on-field coach but can't build a team.

I also think that they will blow the draft. Months ago I expressed my reservations about both of them and so far see no sign at all that I was wrong. On the contrary, they show every sign of justifying my worse fears.

I'm glad somebody's buying long on the apocalypse so the rest of us can keep our heads.

But really, if Shanahan's got a lousy rep for finding talent, who exactly was putting together those Broncos teams that built his resume? Hint: it wasn't Ted Sundquist.

Consider the 2008 Denver Broncos, featuring starting QB, WR1, WR2, TE, LT, LG, RG, RT drafted by Denver and one Mike Shanahan. Only exceptions being RB (they didn't really have a starter) and WR3, Brandon Stokely.

Or the 2005 AFC runners-up Broncos, featuring 13/22 starting players drafted by the Broncos, as well as 2 UDFAs (Rod Smith and Matt Lepsis) who had spent their entire careers with the team.

If Shanahan doesn't have a keen eye for talent, that leaves maybe 5 men in the NFL who do. And since none of them are available, I guess we'll just all have to grit our teeth and make do.

But his thirst for power and a confidence in his own coaching brilliance led him make bad player decisions, ultimately fracturing relationships inside the Denver front office. He won only one playoff game in the 10 years after the last Super Bowl, helped get the team fined twice for salary cap violations, then was fired after an 8-8 season in 2008.

Shanahan often evaluated players by watching tapes of their highlights, a system employed by some in the league who believe that if you see a player at his best then he can be coached up to that ability.

"It has worked for him. I think he has confidence in it," said Lombardi, the NFL Network analyst.

But many league executives say the approach can become intoxicating to a coach who is confident in his ability to coach the player to that level and has the ultimate authority to choose that player.

"He didn't listen to his scouts," said one NFL general manager, who asked not to be identified because he didn't want to publicly criticize another team executive.

Another executive, who also did not want his name used because he might have to deal with Shanahan again, said that Shanahan let his coaching emotions get in the way, "overrating" the players he had brought in both on offense and defense.

"He makes some interesting decisions," the executive said. "But he can overcome them with his coaching."

Others who know him say that while he built strong offenses, he felt compelled to make quick fixes on the defense, that he ignored character and lured too many troublesome players to Denver.

The general manager in name for much of Shanahan's time in Denver was Ted Sundquist, a former military intelligence officer, who negotiated contracts and fielded calls from the other general managers around the league. Nonetheless none of those executives believed Sundquist had the ultimate power over any transaction. Everything, no matter, how insignificant, needed Shanahan's approval.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010602487_4.html?sid=ST2010010700047

Shanahan is a great coach, no doubt. However, player evaluation has never been his strength.

Unnamed executives offering generalized and anonymous insults... not that impressive.

Shanahan made some boneheaded moves with FAs, and that's the thing to watch out for. The Mike Myers/Courtney Brown/Gerard Warren acquisition stands out.

But it's easy to forget that up until that last year with Slowik, the Broncos' defenses were actually pretty good. Ian Gold, Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Darrent Williams, Dominique Foxworth, Trevor Pryce, Reggie Hayward were all impact players drafted and developed by the Shanahan Broncos. I don't think that's a bad list at all.

Shanahan has the rep he has because he didn't win. But if you stack up his drafts vs. Belichick's, it's *at worst* a draw. The trouble is that in the NFL, nobody gives you credit for being the fourth-best team in the conference, and what Shanahan was never able to do on defense was field a team that could stop the Colts.

Which makes them... basically the same as everybody else in football over the last decade.

chiefhog44 wrote:When has this franchise EVER won with flashy names? THAT'S what Allen is bringing back, and personally, I can't wait. A bunch of blue collar workers. I am SOOOOOO glad we didn't sign Peppers. Dansby would have been nice, but many others can fit the bill until we can draft a LB. Build it through the draft.

Nice work Bruce, keep it up.

Teams these day are built by drafts, acquiring FA's, and trades. All three tactics need to be applied. Besides, Dansby is not a flashy name, nor is Taylor, nor Clifton. All three would have filled a definite need of ours. I would also argue that Rolle is not a flashy name either, not in the NFL.

Ask New Orleans if they won the Superbowl with blue collar workers. Your notion that "blue collar" workers are better than players who are well known is absurd. "Blue collar" workers who are good players become known almost immediately. We need players who are good enough to be known or are already known.

Also absurd is your notion that there are "many others" who can fill the bill as well as Dansby. He could have allowed us a painless transition to the 3-4 (assuming we can find a decent NT and a better DE than we currently have, which is problematic). Your idea that we can draft a linebacker as good as Dansby in the draft (rounds four thru seven) doesn't even warrant a rebuttal, and any decision to draft an LB in rounds one and two is just as bad, since we need OL worse than even a linebacker.

Face it, we have to acquire players by every conceivable means if we hope to be competitive even in the long haul. Next year, I think, will be another disaster and we'll be calling for Allen's head. He was a horrible choice, one of Danny's worse. It was made, in fact, because Danny couldn't resist his name. The irony is, of course, that Allen is the last person we know who ought to refuse to acquire players with a flashy name.

Shanny isn't doing it all by himself, he stated that although he has veto power he wants it to be a group team effort with him and Bruce.

The man hasn't even been here 4 months and people are complaining. Jeeezus