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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:16 am
by SkinsJock
KazooSkinsFan wrote:riggofan wrote:Yeah I was wondering about this too. If the deal is that we get can a bunch of quality FAs like Sproles and Peppers because Snyder has the money, and, with the uncapped year it won't hurt us in the future, then this stuff is ok with me.
Is that the case?
Are you proposing we sign them for one year? Most players want multi-year deals and while this year's salary won't "hurt" us with the cap, future year salaries would.
c'mon Kaz - don't go spoiling the fun with reality
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:03 pm
by Irn-Bru
Mississippi Hog wrote:I have a great idea. Since Snyder has the money, we should restructure all of our current high priced contracts so that they are front-loaded for next year. If we could pay most of the $$$ in the contract this year, with no cap, our cap values in the following years will be extremely low, leaving room to sign more big names to regular contracts. This will clear out the salary cap doom we are currently in. Thoughts?
Pay an NFL player 80% of the money up front, and you're going to get less than 20% of his best effort going forward.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:05 pm
by Irn-Bru
If the Skins picked up Sproles, I have this feeling that he would just be Trung Candidate II for us. Not that I think Portis has a great chance of being a quality starter next year . . . but targeting Sproles as your Plan A isn't a great idea in any case, IMO.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:13 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Irn-Bru wrote:Mississippi Hog wrote:I have a great idea. Since Snyder has the money, we should restructure all of our current high priced contracts so that they are front-loaded for next year. If we could pay most of the $$$ in the contract this year, with no cap, our cap values in the following years will be extremely low, leaving room to sign more big names to regular contracts. This will clear out the salary cap doom we are currently in. Thoughts?
Pay an NFL player 80% of the money up front, and you're going to get less than 20% of his best effort going forward.
Also since there is no collective bargaining agreement, we don't know how cap will be calculated. Teams have clearly used signing bonuses to circumvent the cap. Not us of course, but I've heard
some teams have done that.
Anyway, my point is we don't know how they'll calculate the cap hit for long term deals, so assuming it'll be like the old system could be risky.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:14 pm
by SkinsJock
I had heard that at this time Shanahan is looking/hoping that Portis is going to be "the man" here - at least for the near term
I'm not sure how Shanahan feels about Betts abilities to help here
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:50 pm
by crazyhorse1
Countertrey wrote:CH... you note that Peppers wants to play LB in a 3-4, then at the bottom, line him up a a LB in a 4-3. Sorry... I sure don't see him there in a 4-3...
I meant to put a question mark after Peppers' name in the 4-3 but failed to do it. While I'm at it, I should also be putting one by Alexander's name as well.
Rethinking the whole business, here's an idea for the 3-4.
Peppers Haynesworth Orakpo
Rocky Alexander Fletcher Carter
I am extremely dubious that Orakpo can be best used as an LB. I think he's a liability at LB and poetentially one of finest pass rushers in history at DE. Actually, I don't like the 3-4 at all for next year and don't think its the wave of the future. It either gives away too much bulk on the DL for the sake of an extra LB in the middle who is either too heavy to be a coverage guy or too light to be effective in run support. In other words, the extra LB has to function as a displaced lineman working with poor field position or a displaced CB working with poor field position. With the passage of time, teams will learn to take advantage of that.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:12 pm
by aswas71788
VetSkinsFan wrote:NEWSKINSFAN119 wrote:PMG12569 wrote:NEWSKINSFAN119 wrote:The reason Peppers wants to play 3/4 OLB is because as an rush LB his value goes up and he can demand coin similar to guys like Demarcus Ware. I don't think he is worth signing he's 30 and giving him a mega deal just sets franchise back a couple years. Sproles would be an even bigger mistake way too small to deserve the money he is asking for. If we want a special teams demon we can try a guy like Marcus Mason he is pretty fast and cheap.
Really Marcus Mason compared to Darren Sproles....really?
I'm not saying he is Darren Sproles I am just saying that if we really need a punt/kick returner with some adequate speed Mason is servicable why pay a guy starting money to be a third down back/special teams guy
What has Mason done to be compared to Sproles?
What has Sproles done to deserve the type of money he is demanding?
crazy
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:43 pm
by mdk98w
Crazyhorse is CRAZY.
Rethinking the whole business, here's an idea for the 3-4.
Peppers Haynesworth Orakpo
Rocky Alexander Fletcher Carter
?????????
orakpo and peppers- they are not big enough to be sole 3-4 DE. you need big guys to do that.. also why would you move alexander to LB (i know they are talking about moving him to that mix but im sure its not as a full time MLB) he already plays the line. bigger and better suited to be a DL/DE in a 3-4 defence. Plus Haynesworth doesnt want to be NT 100% the time. who is going to spell him when hes tired???
I am on the side of not getting Peppers and Sproles. Just too many needs elsewere. (OL OL OL) Same ol Same ol Redskins. Old and washed up BIG free agents looking for the payday.
Why Peppers? we have Orakpo and Carter
Why Sproles? we have Aldrige (just as fast and something to prove) not looking for that BIG paycheck to retire with. what is Sproles going to do if we dont have an OL?
All of you that want QB/RB/WR/DE...... your going to get the same result as last yr. Great defense.... BAD very BAD Offense.. without a better OL 2010/2011 record 4-12. AT BEST
GO SKINS!!! BORN AND RAISED TO BLEED BURGUNDY AND GOLD!!!
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:14 pm
by mdk98w
crazyhorse1 wrote:Countertrey wrote:CH... you note that Peppers wants to play LB in a 3-4, then at the bottom, line him up a a LB in a 4-3. Sorry... I sure don't see him there in a 4-3...
I meant to put a question mark after Peppers' name in the 4-3 but failed to do it. While I'm at it, I should also be putting one by Alexander's name as well.
Rethinking the whole business, here's an idea for the 3-4.
Peppers Haynesworth Orakpo
Rocky Alexander Fletcher Carter
I am extremely dubious that Orakpo can be best used as an LB. I think he's a liability at LB and poetentially one of finest pass rushers in history at DE. Actually, I don't like the 3-4 at all for next year and don't think its the wave of the future. It either gives away too much bulk on the DL for the sake of an extra LB in the middle who is either too heavy to be a coverage guy or too light to be effective in run support. In other words, the extra LB has to function as a displaced lineman working with poor field position or a displaced CB working with poor field position. With the passage of time, teams will learn to take advantage of that.
THIS WOULD WORK MUCH BETTER
Daniels Haynesworth Carter
Rock Blades Fletcher Orakpo
THEN NEXT PLAY
Jarmon Mongomery or Griffen Haynesworth
Rock Blades Fletcher Orakpo
THEN NEXT PLAY 4-3
Carter Golsten Haynesworth Orakpo/Jarmon
Rock Fletcher Orakpo/Wilson
THEN NEXT PLAY 3-4
Daniels Haynesworth Orakpo
Alexander Blades Fletcher Rock
The sky is the limit. BUT WHAT DO WE DO WITH OL!!!
THAT SHOULD BE OUR #1 CONCERN. NOT PEPPERS AND SPROLES.
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:03 am
by chiefhog44
Irn-Bru wrote:Mississippi Hog wrote:I have a great idea. Since Snyder has the money, we should restructure all of our current high priced contracts so that they are front-loaded for next year. If we could pay most of the $$$ in the contract this year, with no cap, our cap values in the following years will be extremely low, leaving room to sign more big names to regular contracts. This will clear out the salary cap doom we are currently in. Thoughts?
Pay an NFL player 80% of the money up front, and you're going to get less than 20% of his best effort going forward.
Like the draft values chart, I'm sure there is some sort of formula that teams use that is pretty close to these numbers
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:26 am
by crazyhorse1
mdk98w wrote:crazyhorse1 wrote:Countertrey wrote:CH... you note that Peppers wants to play LB in a 3-4, then at the bottom, line him up a a LB in a 4-3. Sorry... I sure don't see him there in a 4-3...
I meant to put a question mark after Peppers' name in the 4-3 but failed to do it. While I'm at it, I should also be putting one by Alexander's name as well.
Rethinking the whole business, here's an idea for the 3-4.
Peppers Haynesworth Orakpo
Rocky Alexander Fletcher Carter
I am extremely dubious that Orakpo can be best used as an LB. I think he's a liability at LB and poetentially one of finest pass rushers in history at DE. Actually, I don't like the 3-4 at all for next year and don't think its the wave of the future. It either gives away too much bulk on the DL for the sake of an extra LB in the middle who is either too heavy to be a coverage guy or too light to be effective in run support. In other words, the extra LB has to function as a displaced lineman working with poor field position or a displaced CB working with poor field position. With the passage of time, teams will learn to take advantage of that.
THIS WOULD WORK MUCH BETTER
Daniels Haynesworth Carter
Rock Blades Fletcher Orakpo
THEN NEXT PLAY
Jarmon Mongomery or Griffen Haynesworth
Rock Blades Fletcher Orakpo
THEN NEXT PLAY 4-3
Carter Golsten Haynesworth Orakpo/Jarmon
Rock Fletcher Orakpo/Wilson
THEN NEXT PLAY 3-4
Daniels Haynesworth Orakpo
Alexander Blades Fletcher Rock
The sky is the limit. BUT WHAT DO WE DO WITH OL!!!
THAT SHOULD BE OUR #1 CONCERN. NOT PEPPERS AND SPROLES.
That's my larger point. Why expend money and energry to try to install a
3-4 when no decent sense can be made in regard to present players fitting into it. There are blatant weaknesses in any 3-4 we can put together at present.
We simply don't have three linemen to use for an adequate front three. We have one-- Haynesworth, who doesn't want to play it. All of the others who are quality players are too small (Daniels is not a quality player) and two of the linebackers will be playing out of natural positions unless one of them is named Blades, who should not be first string. Don't criticize me for putting Orakpo at DE. There's nobody else to put there. I know that he is theoretically too small, but also know he'd out perform Daniels there by a ton. He weights 268, twenty-two pounds lighter than Daniels but much much better, faster and easily capable of putting on ten more pounds of muscle.
Nevertheless it's a mess. We need to concentrate on the OL and stay in the 4-3 and grab a linebacker from the FA list.
Re: crazy
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:57 am
by crazyhorse1
mdk98w wrote:Crazyhorse is CRAZY.
Rethinking the whole business, here's an idea for the 3-4.
Peppers Haynesworth Orakpo
Rocky Alexander Fletcher Carter
?????????
orakpo and peppers- they are not big enough to be sole 3-4 DE. you need big guys to do that.. also why would you move alexander to LB (i know they are talking about moving him to that mix but im sure its not as a full time MLB) he already plays the line. bigger and better suited to be a DL/DE in a 3-4 defence. Plus Haynesworth doesnt want to be NT 100% the time. who is going to spell him when hes tired???
Calling me "Crazy" might or might not be an interesting thing to do, but your post does have interesting weaknesses. Who are the two big guys on our squad who are good enough to play first string on our front line? Have you dreamed them into existence? How about Jarman and Daniels and Griffin and Alexander. Two are unproven and the other two proved they were too old last year, Remember those long drives we couldn't stop? I moved Alexander to linebacker because the Skins are going to use him as a linebacker-- that made him elgible. Further, I put Haynesworth at NT because NT is an important position, Al would be good at it, and we don't have anyone else of quality who could do the job. Crazy, huh. Also, I think it is "interesting" you think Haynesworth won't play where he's told to play and instead of doing it will give back the 100 million; and, second, that you think he won't have to play NT because we don't have anyone to spell him when he's tired. I won't call you Crazy, but those ideas are kind of wierd.
I am on the side of not getting Peppers and Sproles. Just too many needs elsewere. (OL OL OL) Same ol Same ol Redskins. Old and washed up BIG free agents looking for the payday.
Why Peppers? we have Orakpo and Carter
Why Sproles? we have Aldrige (just as fast and something to prove) not looking for that BIG paycheck to retire with. what is Sproles going to do if we dont have an OL?
All of you that want QB/RB/WR/DE...... your going to get the same result as last yr. Great defense.... BAD very BAD Offense.. without a better OL 2010/2011 record 4-12. AT BEST
GO SKINS!!! BORN AND RAISED TO BLEED BURGUNDY AND GOLD!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:07 am
by Paralis
I don't get why switching to the 3-4 bewilders so many people. I mean, don't get me wrong; I'm not a fan of the idea. Getting Orakpo and Jarmon last year should have been the foundation for a great 4-3 DE rotation. But the only thing the Skins are missing are ILBs--Fletcher, McIntosh and Blades are all smaller and better suited to having 2 DTs up front.
But the 2009 Skins in a 3-4 would have a rotation of Daniels, Golston, Jarmon, and Alexander at DE. Haynesworth and Monty at NT. Griffin would play inside and out. Orakpo, Carter, and Wilson at OLB, and Fletcher, McIntosh and Blades at ILB.
It's not perfect, but it doesn't involve anybody doing anything wildly different than they've already been asked to. We'd need better depth at nose and better depth at ILB, but with Dansby and Adalius Thomas likely to be on the market, it's not like there aren't options. And either (Thomas would take some careful evaluation; it's still not clear exactly why he couldn't fit into Belichick's system) would make more sense than paying a fortune to a guy like Peppers, who is likely to want an impossible amount of money to play a position he's never played before.
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:46 am
by langleyparkjoe
I am soooooooooooooo down for getting Sproles its ridiculous. Yea I know he isn't a everydown back but soooo what??? I'd love to see that little guy tear up the NFC Beast with his speed. Wouldn't that be awesome?? Peppers.. not so much, I think we can keep our DL the way it is
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:24 pm
by Jeremy81
I'd rather have dansby and thomas jones than peppers and sproles
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:36 pm
by VetSkinsFan
Jeremy81 wrote:I'd rather have dansby and thomas jones than peppers and sproles
Let's remember that Thomas Jones benefitted from one of the best lines in football last year.
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:17 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
langleyparkjoe wrote:I am soooooooooooooo down for getting Sproles its ridiculous. Yea I know he isn't a everydown back but soooo what??? I'd love to see that little guy tear up the NFC Beast with his speed. Wouldn't that be awesome?? Peppers.. not so much, I think we can keep our DL the way it is
I'd be way cool if Peppers would sign a one year contract though in an uncapped year...
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:08 pm
by chiefhog44
I'd love to see Dansby.
Guys, if you are not understanding this, I will give it to you again. The switch to the 3-4 is not based on this years players. It's based on the future. The 3-4 defense allows for much more flexability and blitz packages. Much better to suit a pass happy league. Shannahan confirmed this by going around the league and watching teams last year. Sit back and relax. It's the best thing you could do.
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:43 pm
by everydayAskinsday
Im also hoping for Dansby .. but of all the players rumored to be on the Redskins radar his name hasnt come up much.. I know he supposedly had mentioned the Redskins on his list of teams he wouldnt mind playing for but I dont know that means much..
I keep hearing the Giants in connection with him and I'm really hoping thats not the case.. I also hope we DO NOT sign sproles.. I just dont see him making a huge difference for us.. only way im ok with signing him is if its on the cheap which it wont be
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:36 pm
by Gibbs4Life
After Sproles...Peppers is the prize
All other names (after Sproles) on the FA list fade away when you see a 5 time pro bowl DE who can play LB.
3-4 line Haynesworth Daniels Jarmon
LB RAK Rocky Fletch Peppers Carter
Make no mistake Peppers is the Prize...after Sproles
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:02 pm
by Jeremy81
VetSkinsFan wrote:Jeremy81 wrote:I'd rather have dansby and thomas jones than peppers and sproles
Let's remember that Thomas Jones benefitted from one of the best lines in football last year.
last year...he's rushed for over 1100 yards the last five years. (while sharing time each of those five years)
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:45 pm
by Gibbs4Life
Sproles fits more with what we need than Jones
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:22 pm
by VetSkinsFan
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:00 am
by SkinsJock
Peppers is only going where the money leads him - he could care less about the scheme - this guy wants his 'payday'
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:20 am
by SkinsJock
This thread is OVER
Sproles is staying in San Diego and Peppers is going to be a Bear
Lovie Smith is going to get Peppers and if that doen't help that team, big time, Lovie will not be the Bears coach in 2011