The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

According to this mock draft here's Tebow:

45. Denver Broncos -- Tim Tebow, QB, Florida

nowhere near top 10... borderline top 10 QBs drafted.

VetSkinsFan wrote:According to this mock draft here's Tebow:

45. Denver Broncos -- Tim Tebow, QB, Florida

nowhere near top 10... borderline top 10 QBs drafted.

The Skins would be absolutely insane to draft Tebrow. He has no chance whatsoever of being an effective NFL quarterback and can only serve the Jags, which needs him to sell tickets for a couple of years before the bubble bursts. He's simply not a quality passer and he's not going to run over NFL players like he ran over collegians. To rationally think anyone but the Jags will take him early is to believe that someone will use him to make a deal with the Jags. He has nowhere near the potential at QB that Michael Vick had when he was drafted,

Gibbs4Life wrote:

Because the general manager of the Jax Jags monitors thehogs.net to see what we fans say will happen?

No but this thread now shows up on Google under Shanahan Tebow and it just adds the hint to the jags that if they want him they're gonna have to trade up into the top 3, which I don't want them to do.

They don't have to move up to three. They can just trade up to four with us so kansas city doesn't take him. Jaguars can give us all their 2010 draft picks so tim tebow won't go to kansas city, or for sure, cleveland. It would be a hard trade for us to make, considering tebow is john elway reincarnated, but a good trade nonetheless...

Why do y'all even play along?

Do you actually expect any of us to take you seriously Gibbs4Life?

Let's see... you have had us trading up to draft Suh, drafting Mark Ingram, and now drafting Tim Tebow.

You have also had us trading for Jay Cutler, trading (Jason Campbell) for Brandon Marshall and belly aching that we didn't get Mark Sanchez.

And if we were going to draft a QB, why wouldn't we take Sam Bradford? I mean I personally haven't seen a single draft board that doesn't have Bradford and Claussen ahead of Tebow... some have McCoy, Snead, Canfield and Pike ahead of him too... but we're going to draft Tebow at number four? Just because the Jags owner likes Tebow, doesn't mean they'll give up a bunch to get him IMO... if he falls to them at number ten MAYBE, but it could just all be posturing on Jacksonville's part. Teams tend to fawn over just about everyone except the guy they REALLY like.

I find it comical that in none of your 'suggestions' is there even mention of an offensive lineman. That doesn't mean we'll take one at number four, but we sure need one (IMO we should take Russell Okung or trade down for an extra pick and grab Bulaga). Why not be creative and talk about how 'smart' we'd be to draft a Maryland o-line product like Bruce Campbell and then lay out a scenario? At least then people wouldnt find your posts so far out. Perhaps the most comical part is how 'sure' you are each time. Attention seeking maybe?

For the record, the boy who cried wolf wasn't believed on his third crack.

Shanahan knows whats best for this team, he's scouting Tebow for good reason.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Shanahan knows whats best for this team, he's scouting Tebow for good reason.

Yeah, it's called due diligence. Just out of curiosity, what is it in Shanhan's comments that make you think he's doing more than answering a question about Tebow?

I mean, all I see is a guy answering a question like, 'Key Kyle, if you draft a guy like Tim Tebow, do you try and correct his mechanics?'

I don't see ANYTHING in his answer that leads me to believe that Shanahan's all hot to trot over the guy... in fact, he's basically saying that you have to live with his shortcomings and try to make what he does best work for your team.

How does that make him the fourth overall pick in the draft? We're talking about a top 5 pick here... whoever it is, is going to get PAID, so you want to try and pick someone that isn't such a reach.

The guy's an unproven NFL commodity. LOTS of great college players did squat in the big leagues. Kyle is smart enough to know that he's coming to Washington... the land of short-sighted ownership and short term coaching contracts - why on earth would they use their very first pick to draft such an unknown entity?

IMO, the only way Tebow makes it to Redskin Park is if it's later in the draft... no way we waste that number four pick on the guy. If he's still there at #5 in the 2nd round, we might pull the trigger... because that's a much better assessment of his draft value... but personally, I still don't see it with the holes we have to fill.

My comments aren't an indictment of the guy either - I actually really like him - he's a winner and a competitor, and guys like that are always great to have. But IMO, you don't spend a number four on 'intangibles'.

I fully expect you to have 'switched your favorite' to whoever lights it up at the Senior Bowl this weekend anyway. Oh and by the way, Tebow isn't exactly turning heads there.

I am not sure if we will draft Tebow? Heck I wont mind having him on our team.

However I am 99 percent sure that Jacksonville will draft Tim Tebow if we do not.

BossHog wrote: a single draft board that doesn't have Bradford and Claussen ahead of Tebow... some have McCoy, Snead, Canfield and Pike ahead of him too... but we're going to draft Tebow at number four?

Seriously, Pike is it for me.. especially over Tebow.. Bradford as well. Tebow is just too JC like to me. Same bush mechanics but Tebow has way better legs.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Shanahan knows whats best for this team, he's scouting Tebow for good reason.

Enough of this absurdity. Unless the jags draft him, Tebow will be lucky to go in the third round. As an NFL QB, he's strictly a project.

langleyparkjoe wrote:

BossHog wrote: a single draft board that doesn't have Bradford and Claussen ahead of Tebow... some have McCoy, Snead, Canfield and Pike ahead of him too... but we're going to draft Tebow at number four?

Seriously, Pike is it for me.. especially over Tebow.. Bradford as well. Tebow is just too JC like to me. Same bush mechanics but Tebow has way better legs.

I'm a big fan of Pike, as well. I like Jimmy Clausen, but I would much rather grab Okung at 4 and Pike in the second, if we are grabbing a QB.

If he's there in the 3rd round I wouldn't mind us taking him. Not because I think he's gonna lead us to the playoffs next year but because of all the things that people find wrong w/his game, the things that are never in question w/him is work ethic, determination, grit, etc...I admire that and this team could use some of it and if he doesn't work out at QB we could always use a good Fullback.


I guess the bottom line on him is he's a good football player w/a willingness and appetite to keep learning.

so.il.SKINSFAN wrote:If he's there in the 3rd round I wouldn't mind us taking him. Not because I think he's gonna lead us to the playoffs next year but because of all the things that people find wrong w/his game, the things that are never in question w/him is work ethic, determination, grit, etc...I admire that and this team could use some of it and if he doesn't work out at QB we could always use a good Fullback.


I guess the bottom line on him is he's a good football player w/a willingness and appetite to keep learning.

Except we used our 3rd round last year in the supplemental on Jarmon.

Pike is the white Jason Campbell

Gibbs4Life wrote:Pike is the white Jason Campbell

Brilliant analysis

It's still really early so this all will chance. There is a chance that no QB will be taken in the 1st half of the 1st round. In all reality, the consensus #1 QB is Bradford - even with his shoulder. After that, the thought is Claussen but he's a 3 year sit and learn kid - per Rich Gannon of NFL Serius Radio. After that, it's about who do you like. No one right now has set himself apart. But a lot of guys are saying that if you have the luxury to draft a QB to sit and learn, the best guy is Jake Locker.

Tebow is intriguing. He's got the longest delivery that most analysts have seen - ever. The other thing about him - which shocks me because of his size - is that he has a pretty weak arm. He also has only played in the spread and is not comfortable coming from under center - which he never did.

Tebow has about everything you'd want in a QB outside of mechanics. He's a firey personality, he's a leader and a great character guy. Most guys at this point are placing him as a 3rd round pick but expect him to go in the 2nd about midway or late because of the fact that he does have some upside and teams can use him around the goal line in certain packages.

That's just my quick analysis on the QB's.

But a lot of guys are saying that if you have the luxury to draft a QB to sit and learn, the best guy is Jake Locker.

Locker isn't in the draft. He decided to go back to Washington for his senior season. If he was in the draft he would be competing with Suh for the number one pick.

Sorry - I got him mixed up with Michael Kafka from Northwestern and John Skelton from Fordham. There are mixed reviews on where the value is for LeFevour. Some say 2nd round but others say as late as 5th - which I don't agree with. The kids a winner but very young body wise. (looks 15 yrs old in the face)

Gibbs4Life wrote:Pike is the white Jason Campbell

Awesome analysis.

So... can you answer my question?

Just out of curiosity, what is it in Shanahan's comments that make you think he's doing more than answering a question about Tebow?

I mean, all I see is a guy answering a question like, 'Key Kyle, if you draft a guy like Tim Tebow, do you try and correct his mechanics?'

I don't see ANYTHING in his answer that leads me to believe that Shanahan's all hot to trot over the guy... in fact, he's basically saying that you have to live with his shortcomings and try to make what he does best work for your team.

... because I'd really like to know how you leaped to the conclusion that:

Shanahan knows whats best for this team, he's scouting Tebow for good reason.

I've never seen Pike throw a ball over 30 mph.

I don't see ANYTHING in his answer that leads me to believe that Shanahan's all hot to trot over the guy

These are the clues...

#1. Mike Shanahan personally visited Florida and studied the spread offense, he also addressed the Gators and spoke to Tebow.

#2. Mike has a close relationship to Urban Meyer

#3. Mike and Kyle both list Gruden as "as good as it gets" in NFL, and Gruden says there is no doubt Tebow can play QB and thinks he's the best player in the draft.

#4. Zorn knows what Snyder's thinking and he was talking about 'intangibles' and how teams are always looking for guys with them.

Honestly, I have no clue who or how we will draft, but I know this...Shanahan knows what's best and if he thinks Tebow can win him a SB he'll draft him no.4 and the media, fans and Jason Reid's of the world can kiss the baby.

Gibbs4Life wrote:
Honestly, I have no clue who or how we will draft, but I know this...Shanahan knows what's best and if he thinks Tebow can win him a SB he'll draft him no.4 and the media, fans and Jason Reid's of the world can kiss the baby.

I'm getting a permanent brain freeze...


Oh, the pain.

They're going to talk to a lot of people... and probably hear 'how great' a lot of guys are... how does that show the Redskins are going to draft a guy, just because they scout a guy. I would hope that they 'scout' every guy expected to go on the first day of the draft... and have had others scout just about anybody else expected to get drafted.

I fail to see how that categorically means that Tebow is being targeted with the number four pick. It could just as easily mean that they like the guy and would take him with a later pick. It could just mean that they're posturing so that people think they like him when they like someone else. It could mean NOTHING. there's not a shred of FACT in any of your assertion - it's strictly (bad) conjecture.

I also have no idea why Shanahan having a close relationship with Urban Meyer has to do with drafting the guy FOURTH OVERALL. I'm sure Shanny has 'close' relationships with lots of people - he's been around a long time. I'm sure Mike respects Mayer's opinion as well, again, it doesn't mean that they're going to take Tebow fourth overall.

And the logic that Zorn knows what Snyder is thinking... are you kidding me? I don't know what part of that is the most bizarre... first of all, if Allen and Shanahan have what they say they have - autonomy - then it doesn't matter what Snyder thinks, and it certainly doesn't matter what Snyder thought BEFORE they got there... which is ALL that Zorn would be privy to. I won't even go into the fact that if Zorn knew what Snyder was thinking WHEN HE WAS HERE, it's doubtful that Sherm Lewis would have ever been called. So let me get this straight... the Redskins will draft Tebow 4th overall because Jim Zorn talked about the importance of intangibles, and he used to coach the Redskins - so he knows the way Dan Snyder thinks... so Zorm must have been alluding to specifically Tim Tebow and that Snyder and the Redskins would absolutely take him 4th overall. That's your contention here? That's one of the most silly 'arguments' I have ever seen.

I just don't see Shanhan and Allen making their first pick with the franchise, an incredible reach. Tebow isn't worth it - and he isn't worth the cash you have to lay out to try and wait to figure out if he was it takes. I have more faith in Allen and Shanahan's decision making than that. Choosing a blue chip tackle and filling the hole for the next decade is definitely a much smarter move. Considering that there will likely be a good candidate for such a thing at number four, I personally think Okung is a no-brainer. I think that ideally they would love to deal that pick and get more picks, but I think it will be tough to do on draft day. And you have to go into the draft expecting to have to make that pick.


I see nothing in your clues to 'convince' me that anything is afoot, but I guess since you're so sure - at least it will mean that you won't be picking every guy moving up a draft board over the next few months - to be the guy the Redskins are categorically taking at number four. You've established that you're sure it will be Tebow.

Personally I'd be excited to have Tebow leading this offense. I feel like we have the offensive coaches to establish a strong running game paired with some nasty wildcat feat. Tebow and from what I understand Shanahan is pretty good at developing QB's, mock drafts rate college QB's on how NFL ready they are now not by upside, Tim Tebow has more upside than any QB drafted since Peyton imo, because if he could replicate in the pros what he was in college he'd be legendary.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Personally I'd be excited to have Tebow leading this offense. I feel like we have the offensive coaches to establish a strong running game paired with some nasty wildcat feat. Tebow and from what I understand Shanahan is pretty good at developing QB's, mock drafts rate college QB's on how NFL ready they are now not by upside

I get that you like Tebow - do you not understand that I said I liked him too? That doesn't mean we're going to take him at number four.

I personally think these days EVERY aspect of a player is looked at before they're drafted - including their relative upside. It costs a lot of money to develop NFL talent - especially QBs taken in the first five picks. So it's one thing to draft a project - it's another thing entirely to draft one at number four overall.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Tim Tebow has more upside than any QB drafted since Peyton imo, because if he could replicate in the pros what he was in college he'd be legendary.

Ironically, they said the exact same thing about one of the biggest draft busts ever - Ryan Leaf.

You're right about that but keep in mind, these guys are getting paid. And the paycheck for the #4 vs the #64 are totally different. The #4 pick is not a development guy - it's a sure fire guy. A guy that you KNOW can come right in and produce for his position.

Some may say that the Raider's were crazy to take Janekowski in the 1st round but there are only a few good/great players on their team and he's one of them along with Leckler and Asemua (or however you spell their names).

I'm not saying take a kicker in the 1st round but you get my drift. Tebow is not NFL ready. His delivery is way too long and he over steps into each throw. They showed on NFL Networks Senior Bowl practice today that Tebow was asked to throw the ball with a cinder block in front of his foot so he couldn't step into the throws. That's just one of the many things that he's got to work on and more proof that he's not worthy of a first round pick. Some don't believe he's a 2nd round guy either.

All in all, he's a great guy who's a great leader and works very hard. He's extremely passionate in everything he does - football, religion, etc. But I can not say that he's ever going to be mentioned in the same breath as Peyton Manning who just may end up the best QB ever in the NFL before his career is over. Tebow needs to throw is first pass.