Post Game Discussion - Skins/Cowboys

BeeGee · Post by **BeeGee** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:41 am

The Skins are setup for failure. When your organization is constantly in disarray and your team is as prone to injury as are the Skins, you need talent and/or depth to get by. Washington has little/no talent and aside from the d-line, no depth. You can count their truly talented players a single hand that has a broken thumb: Haynesworth, Orakpo, Fletcher, and Cool

ey. That's it. Other than that, the roster is riddled with underachievers like the entire defensive backfield, a bunch of boneheads that yap after every play during the first few posessions, then spend the rest of the game doing nothing to back up all their smack. Landry is obviously a guy that just doesn't get it and guys like Smoot and Deangelo Hall just aren't nearly good enough to cash the checks they write with their mouths. Shanahan should gut this team like a November turkey and rebuild it around the aformentioned talented players, because that's the only way FedEx will rock again. Losing 17-0 to the Cowboys on the 100th anniversary of the league's greatest rivalry oughta be the last straw.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:52 am

Where have you been - we are going to be seeing major changes here - last night's game was certainly not even close to "the last straw" - Snyder has been looking at getting this team back into consistent playoff contention for most of this season - changes will be happening here

btw - The pukes do not look like they are ready to beat a good team yet - if Jerrah keeps Phillips as he indicated he would on TV last night, you guys are going to continue to be almost but not quite - go sort out your own problems :lol:

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:06 am

Last night's game was no surprise. What's to talk about? The Skins were swept by the entire division and the offense averaged the third lowest points per game in the league. This team needs some serious personnel changes.

ChrisHanburger · Post by **ChrisHanburger** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:42 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:Anyone who still thinks that the only reason LL was ineffective was because he playing out of position is kidding themselves. This guy stinks, and we would be smart to try and get anything for him in the offseason. The fact that he let the slowest TE in the league burn him for an 80 yard play sealed it for me. I hope to never see him in a Skins uniform after this season.

He got burnt, but Witten is hardly the slowest TE in the league. We have enough to complain about, don't go making up gradeschool stories...

and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

Landry certainly looks badly coached. But some players are uncoachable. His technique is horrible all around. He never wraps on a tackle. Never tries to strip the receiver. He goes for the highlight reel hit every time and gets burned because of it. I wonder what a real expert would see in his footwork? He got burned by Witten not because of speed, but because, as far as I could tell, he overplayed him at the line, got turned around and tripped up. That's high school level stuff. I'm sure he's been coached about all that for 10+ years. Some players just don't want to hear it.

That said, I think we have a perfect storm of inadequate player selection (skills and ATTITUDE) by the FO and coaches who can't fix the problems they're given. Maybe a better defensive backfield coach (more strong willed, teaching, fundamentals kinda guy) could get by the MASSIVE egos the skins have in their D backfield, but it sure don't look like it.

Last night, I told the other folks at my house (who just got back from watching their team clinch yet another AFC East title), that I was watching last night just so I could have "remember-when" stories for the time when the Skins are back in their glory. One of them said "You'll have plenty of those!" and they all bust out laughing....Stupid Pats Fans....Stupid Happy Pats Fans....AARRRRRGGGGHHHHH :evil:

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am

and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

Were Hall's issues in Atlanta and Oakland also coaching related? Rogers had issues when GW was still the DC here. At some point you have to stop blaming the coaches and put it on the players. I doubt that Gray or Blache tell Landry to get beat on double fakes, tackle like a jackass, and take terrible angles to the ball/ballcarrier. I also doubt that they tell Rogers to celebrate every time he gets beat but gets lucky because the receiver dropped the ball.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:32 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:I also doubt that they are they tell Rogers to celebrate every time he gets beat but gets lucky because the receiver dropped the ball.

I'l be sending you my dry cleaning bill, because I just spit coffee all over myself.

ROTFALMAO

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:35 am

Hall does the same thing.

gibbsfan · Post by **gibbsfan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:59 am

the biggest thing this franchise needs to do is change the culture and the way they do buisness. everybody should be held accountable..

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:11 pm

It's tough to be a fan like us, watching this game, I felt like I had more fire in me than the team did. It looked like the team just didn't give a care about anything, they just suited up and played "medium". It's like a fairweather team, they only get emotional and play their best when they are winning.... Give them adversity and they flop around like a bunch of losers going thru the motions, laughing all the way to the bank. Why can't we do this. Why is it that if a fan does this he/she gets called out and verbally flogged, but when the team does it it is called "rebuilding" year. Screw this bunch, I can't even look up into the ownership to be proud of. We used to have a good defense to draw pride in, Blache destroyed it. We always had a D we can count on. There is nothing to be proud of in this team, we need to look at each other and draw pride from one another and say, LIVE, BREATHE and BLEED burgundy and gold. Change is in the horizon, let us hope that it isn't a mirage....

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:19 pm

dlc wrote:I don't think QB is a high priority, but I wouldn't spend anymore money to keep JC. Someone who can play ball control and actually hit a deep ball here and there would be good.

Agreed. As much as the experts that hail JC's toughness and grit over the past few weeks (in the face of inhuman pressure), they forget how average he is the rest of the time.

JC likely will demand lots more money to stay, and if the Skins give in, it will only continue the vicious cycle of overpaying players.

Good luck in your next city Campbell. I'm sorry it didn't work out in DC for ya. - TRO

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:23 pm

Sir_Monk wrote:
Manchester_Redskin wrote:
We may beat the bolts next week, they will be resting a few of their starters..

I don't see Norv letting that happen.

I can see Norv resting his guys. After all, all the Bolts need to do is score 14-17 points, and they can coast the rest of the game.

Ladanian, Rivers, Gates, et. al: Enjoy the three quarters of rest next week!!

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:24 pm

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Good luck in your next city Campbell. I'm sorry it didn't work out in DC for ya. - TRO

I hear that the Skins will make a MODEST offer. He is not expected to accept and he will test the market.

Good luck to him but his INACCURACY, SLOW EXECUTION and basically lack of FIELD VISION and LEADERSHIP do not match anywhere near his personal toughness and courage.

Nice guy. Not a starter NFL QB.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:33 pm

PAPDOG67 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:Anyone who still thinks that the only reason LL was ineffective was because he playing out of position is kidding themselves. This guy stinks, and we would be smart to try and get anything for him in the offseason. The fact that he let the slowest TE in the league burn him for an 80 yard play sealed it for me. I hope to never see him in a Skins uniform after this season.

He got burnt, but Witten is hardly the slowest TE in the league. We have enough to complain about, don't go making up gradeschool stories...

and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

If your sticking up for LL than you need to watch the games more closely. Witten's catches this season rarely go for more than 10 yards and there's a reason for that.......because he runs like he has a piano on his back. If you're a safety and you can't cover a TE who doesn't run very well, its time to find another job. Don't talk to me about coaching, he was in man coverage and got toasted. That's not coaching.

Perhaps someone has just taken away his markers. Did you ever think of that?? :lol:

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:38 pm

Actually, I do want to discuss something important.

I was watching the postgame show on COMCAST, and during D. Hall's "Just-one-question-cause-I-gotta-roll" segment, I noticed that his shape up was tight!!!

He has the best barber, hands down.

If anyone knows where he gets his shape-up done (if in the area), please share that info with everyone else.

Thanks.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:52 pm

I can certainly understand that many here do not like Landry's behaviour or the way he plays his position. I am hoping that he shows the new guys coming in here that he's adaptable and coachable, because if someone gets this guy to play anywhere near to what he's capable of and channels that aggression in the right way, Landry will be a force on an NFL field for many years - like a lot of NFL players with a lot of natural ability that are not coached and disciplined and do not use it correctly this guy is not playing the position as well as he can

this team is about to undergo a lot of changes but I hope the guys coming in will decide that Landry can help this team and himself with the correct coaching and discipline

the play that Witten made last night was exceptional but I have seen flashes of brilliance from Landry as well and hope that we will continue to see that in B&G next year

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:05 pm

Man I just feel cheated that I spent time watching that game. I could have read a book or something. I could have spent time clipping my toenails. blah.

I think the worse thing about this mess is that we're so deep in the hole, its really hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel. For example, we'll probably spend the next couple years trying to fix the offensive line. By the time they fix it, our d-line will probably be old and injured and we'll have a new mess. You get my point.

Aside from maybe Matt Millen, I don't think I've ever seen an NFL exec who was more deserving of getting canned than Cerrato.

PAPDOG67 · Post by **PAPDOG67** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:25 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I can certainly understand that many here do not like Landry's behaviour or the way he plays his position. I am hoping that he shows the new guys coming in here that he's adaptable and coachable, because if someone gets this guy to play anywhere near to what he's capable of and channels that aggression in the right way, Landry will be a force on an NFL field for many years - like a lot of NFL players with a lot of natural ability that are not coached and disciplined and do not use it correctly this guy is not playing the position as well as he can

this team is about to undergo a lot of changes but I hope the guys coming in will decide that Landry can help this team and himself with the correct coaching and discipline

the play that Witten made last night was exceptional but I have seen flashes of brilliance from Landry as well and hope that we will continue to see that in B&G next year

Don't kid yourself. The guys is as over rated as they come. I will take Reed Doughty over him any day of the week. The guy just does his job and makes tackles. If LL hasn't learned to play the NFL game yet he never will. He's just not that good.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:38 pm

PAPDOG67 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:Anyone who still thinks that the only reason LL was ineffective was because he playing out of position is kidding themselves. This guy stinks, and we would be smart to try and get anything for him in the offseason. The fact that he let the slowest TE in the league burn him for an 80 yard play sealed it for me. I hope to never see him in a Skins uniform after this season.

He got burnt, but Witten is hardly the slowest TE in the league. We have enough to complain about, don't go making up gradeschool stories...

and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

If your sticking up for LL than you need to watch the games more closely. Witten's catches this season rarely go for more than 10 yards and there's a reason for that.......because he runs like he has a piano on his back. If you're a safety and you can't cover a TE who doesn't run very well, its time to find another job. Don't talk to me about coaching, he was in man coverage and got toasted. That's not coaching.

One play doesn't define a career. and if you've noticed, I've not defended Landry in the past month or so...even I have called for his benching. As for his skill, that's coming in question. I just don't want to lose his athleticism and find out that we have subpar coaches.

And as for Witten, it could possibly be, just possibly, that Witten is Romo's favorite target so he gets more attention. That would hinder the YAC. Nah, that's blasphemy.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:41 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

Were Hall's issues in Atlanta and Oakland also coaching related? Rogers had issues when GW was still the DC here. At some point you have to stop blaming the coaches and put it on the players. I doubt that Gray or Blache tell Landry to get beat on double fakes, tackle like a jackass, and take terrible angles to the ball/ballcarrier. I also doubt that they tell Rogers to celebrate every time he gets beat but gets lucky because the receiver dropped the ball.

Hmmm...the common denominator is.... JERRY GRAY, SECONDARY COACH!!!! Maybe the coaches we have aren't very good? Nah, that can't be it. Look at our trophy case. That would be a ludicrous statement, b/c it's FULL of trophies from the past 15 years....isn't it :hmm:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:58 pm

I agree that the players have to take some of the blame but I also feel that the coaches have to take some of the heat for allowing mistakes and bad play to continue game after game AND, even more important, for being involved with a defensive scheme and defensive game planning that leaves a lot to be desired - this defense might be very good statistically but it sucks when you see opposing teams taking the ball downfield to get the winning score in the 4th quarter

the secret to NFL football is being able to run the ball when you want to and being able to get the ball back from the other team when you really need to - now we have not been very good at either for a long while and while the root cause of that has been the management here the coaches bear a lot of responsibility too - more so than the players IMHO

we have some very talented players here that have not been used properly and I'm looking for some new young guys to come in here that will not accept the low standard of NFL playing and coaching that we have seen these last 2 games

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:06 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

Were Hall's issues in Atlanta and Oakland also coaching related? Rogers had issues when GW was still the DC here. At some point you have to stop blaming the coaches and put it on the players. I doubt that Gray or Blache tell Landry to get beat on double fakes, tackle like a jackass, and take terrible angles to the ball/ballcarrier. I also doubt that they tell Rogers to celebrate every time he gets beat but gets lucky because the receiver dropped the ball.

Hmmm...the common denominator is.... JERRY GRAY, SECONDARY COACH!!!! Maybe the coaches we have aren't very good? Nah, that can't be it. Look at our trophy case. That would be a ludicrous statement, b/c it's FULL of trophies from the past 15 years....isn't it

I'm not going to argue that the coaches are good because they aren't. I'm on record as saying that I want every coach fired after the season. However, I think that the issues with Hall, Rogers, and LL go far beyond the coaches. To me, these are three players that don't take their jobs seriously and aren't winning players. Winning players don't celebrate big hits when they are being shutout at home and dont repeatedly make the same stupid mistakes that we see these three make on a regular basis. Maybe there is still some hope for Hall and Rogers, but imo LL is a joke of an NFL player.

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:19 pm

If the Redskins hired coach Ryan I honestly think we go at least 7-9.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:21 pm

Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:28 pm

JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

It needed to take a SUPER HUMAN effort to lose the fan base.

We have to give credit Danny at least for that "achievement". Let's give credit where credit is due. :lol:

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:45 pm

JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

The CAPS are not so slowly taking over as DC's team at the moment. Their is actual excitement around that team. DC will always be a football town first, but with the Skins this bad I think that many people just don't care anymore. For example, in the past I never would have turned down free tix to a Skins-Cowboys game, but I simply had no motivation to go to that game last night. Hopefully they turn this around because I really think that they are starting to lose fans, some permanently.