The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

so.il.SKINSFAN wrote:Shanahan won't go anywhere where he can't hire his own staff. I hope they are all gone except Buges.

Even Buges deserves to go. He has done a subpar job of developing younger players lately.

I agree with most. Buges is the guy I want to stay. The rest can be shown the door.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

so.il.SKINSFAN wrote:Shanahan won't go anywhere where he can't hire his own staff. I hope they are all gone except Buges.

Even Buges deserves to go. He has done a subpar job of developing younger players lately.

Can I ask what you base that assessment of Bugel on? What younger players do you think he's had to work with, that another coach would have turned into better players than Bugel has? It might just be that he hasn't been given anything decent to work with? Montgomery, Reinhart, Williams, Robinson? I'm not sure there's any NFL talent in that list.

UK Skins Fan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

so.il.SKINSFAN wrote:Shanahan won't go anywhere where he can't hire his own staff. I hope they are all gone except Buges.

Even Buges deserves to go. He has done a subpar job of developing younger players lately.

Can I ask what you base that assessment of Bugel on? What younger players do you think he's had to work with, that another coach would have turned into better players than Bugel has? It might just be that he hasn't been given anything decent to work with? Montgomery, Reinhart, Williams, Robinson? I'm not sure there's any NFL talent in that list.

Well, obviously, a competent coach WOULD have had those 5th and 6th string players running at Pro Bowl levels...

From MY perspective, as bad as it was, I can't even imagine the disaster if we DIDN'T have Buges...

Fact is there are most likely a number of coaches and players that did their jobs as well or even better than expected - that being said the new guys coming will hopefully only keep those coaches and players that suit what they need to get this franchise to play better together - I don't care how a player or coach did at his job here - even if he exceeded all expectations - everyone should be evaluated on what they can offer to the success of this franchise going forward NOT because they played really well or did a fantastic job of coaching - this is about the plan for the success of this franchise and I hope we don't keep someone because they are a great coach or player

we are going to do things very differently here if we are to have any chance at success - the old way of running this franchise and bringing in the best coaches and players (the snyder/Cerrato method of managing) has not worked

CanesSkins26 wrote:

so.il.SKINSFAN wrote:Shanahan won't go anywhere where he can't hire his own staff. I hope they are all gone except Buges.

Even Buges deserves to go. He has done a subpar job of developing younger players lately.

I don't know about that ... I think it's hard to concentrate on developing younger players when you have to replace your entire line every two weeks. Three card monty is tough enough ... but five card monty? Heck, I'm impressed that he can even remember their names and what part of their bodies are broken. Buges ain't no spring chicken, ya know?

UK Skins Fan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

so.il.SKINSFAN wrote:Shanahan won't go anywhere where he can't hire his own staff. I hope they are all gone except Buges.

Even Buges deserves to go. He has done a subpar job of developing younger players lately.

Can I ask what you base that assessment of Bugel on? What younger players do you think he's had to work with, that another coach would have turned into better players than Bugel has? It might just be that he hasn't been given anything decent to work with? Montgomery, Reinhart, Williams, Robinson? I'm not sure there's any NFL talent in that list.

I look at a guy like Rinehart, a third round pick, that in his second year in the NFL isn't even serviceable. Buges has to be able to develop a guy like that into at least a competent starter. Sure, he's been given a lot of garbage to work with, but the few decent young players he's had have not developed.

Few decent players? You mention one underachieving draftee? Your assertions are groundless. Bugel may not be the right guy for the next HC's team, but that has nothing to do with his ability... but with his philosophy.

Bugel's history gives him plenty of credibility. The fact that Rinehart was a third round pick doesnt make him somehow magic. You can't coach intelligence. You can't coach heart. You can't coach hunger.

He managed to make Heyer, who was pure camp foder, into a servicable backup... Never mind the free agents and low round picks that he turned into potential hall of famers.

Countertrey wrote:Few decent players? You mention one underachieving draftee? Your assertions are groundless. Bugel may not be the right guy for the next HC's team, but that has nothing to do with his ability... but with his philosophy.

Bugel's history gives him plenty of credibility. The fact that Rinehart was a third round pick doesnt make him somehow magic. You can't coach intelligence. You can't coach heart. You can't coach hunger.

He managed to make Heyer, who was pure camp foder, into a servicable backup... Never mind the free agents and low round picks that he turned into potential hall of famers.

Two things...Heyer isn't even a serviceable backup (IMO) and Rinehart was coming around before he broke his leg. We'll see him next year on the line I'm betting.

Folks CLEARLY have no idea how rare true NFL caliber O line talent is...

I feel like the Home Run Staff for Shanahan is the big three from Houston... Kyle Gary and Alex and throw in Bob Slowik

CanesSkins26 wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

so.il.SKINSFAN wrote:Shanahan won't go anywhere where he can't hire his own staff. I hope they are all gone except Buges.

Even Buges deserves to go. He has done a subpar job of developing younger players lately.

Can I ask what you base that assessment of Bugel on? What younger players do you think he's had to work with, that another coach would have turned into better players than Bugel has? It might just be that he hasn't been given anything decent to work with? Montgomery, Reinhart, Williams, Robinson? I'm not sure there's any NFL talent in that list.

I look at a guy like Rinehart, a third round pick, that in his second year in the NFL isn't even serviceable. Buges has to be able to develop a guy like that into at least a competent starter. Sure, he's been given a lot of garbage to work with, but the few decent young players he's had have not developed.

Honest question: do you really think Bugel has been given a "few decent young players," people who had NFL talent but needed some quality coaching to get there?

Countertrey wrote:Folks CLEARLY have no idea how rare true NFL caliber O line talent is...

agreed but I think it's fairly safe to assume that the offensive line here next year will never be as bad as this group lately - I also think it's safe to think that we will not see the injury bug hit us as bad as it did AND that there will be both a lot of young guys as well as a lot better depth

I totally agree that putting a good offemsive line together is not an easy thing BUT the offensive line play here recently has been terrible and it would not be that hard to find players that can be better than that

the key here is going to be hopefully having a very good FO (GM & President) to manage things and for Snyder to fully support but not interfere with what they want to do

it will take time to get a very good offensive line but we certainly can do better than what we have now in a short time frame

SkinsJock wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Folks CLEARLY have no idea how rare true NFL caliber O line talent is...

agreed but I think it's fairly safe to assume that the offensive line here next year will never be as bad as this group lately - I also think it's safe to think that we will not see the injury bug hit us as bad as it did AND that there will be both a lot of young guys as well as a lot better depth

True... because there will undoubtedly be a concerted effort to rebuild this critical team component through the draft and through FA.

I totally agree that putting a good offemsive line together is not an easy thing BUT the offensive line play here recently has been terrible and it would not be that hard to find players that can be better than that

Also true... the issue here is that the individual who was posting faulted Buges... we both know that it was not Bugel's job to find the talent... his job was to prepare the "talent" he had on hand... My contention is, if Bugel couldn't do anything with this crew... no one could.

the key here is going to be hopefully having a very good FO (GM & President) to manage things and for Snyder to fully support but not interfere with what they want to do

it will take time to get a very good offensive line but we certainly can do better than what we have now in a short time frame

Absolutely agree.

I'm not sure Buges' philosophy and Shanahan's are the same. I expect Buges will retire.

Countertrey wrote:Folks CLEARLY have no idea how rare true NFL caliber O line talent is...

Rare enough that most NFL teams have at least 5 NFL caliber O-line starters, and many have one or two NFL starter quality backups?

Countertrey wrote:Folks CLEARLY have no idea how rare true NFL caliber O line talent is...

SkinsJock wrote:]I totally agree that putting a good offensive line together is not an easy thing BUT the offensive line play here recently has been terrible and it would not be that hard to find players that can be better than that

Countertrey wrote:]Also true... the issue here is that the individual who was posting faulted Buges... we both know that it was not Bugel's job to find the talent... his job was to prepare the "talent" he had on hand... My contention is, if Bugel couldn't do anything with this crew... no one could.

I agree - Buges did an incredible job with what he had - the fact that some were saying that the play calling was much better were not giving enough credit IMO to the main reason that was possible

I am not sure he'll want to continue on here OR even if the new regime will include him but he was one of the best offensive lin coaches I have seen and should be in the HOF someday

If Houston fire their staff and Gibbs became availible would you want Gibbs or Buges??

DEHog wrote:If Houston fire their staff and Gibbs became availible would you want Gibbs or Buges??

Gibbs!

DEHog wrote:If Houston fire their staff and Gibbs became availible would you want Gibbs or Buges??

Does it matter whom we want?

Alex Gibbs and Joe Bugel are great at what they do but they do things differently, I think in this for continuity of philosophy Alex Gibbs would be the right choice

SkinsHead56 wrote:Spending 40 mill in paid out money ensures we will not be switching to a 3-4 defense. I've seen it mentioned in numerous threads. It ain't gonna happen folks. I hope Blache & Danny Smith are holdovers for the next coach, they'd be dumb not to keep them both.

What does 40 mill have to do with anything? #1 AH is under contract to if the new HC decides to switch to a 3-4 AH will have to go along with it. Blache is not a bad DC but he's not that great either. I think the defense is playing better then they should be playing considering the scheme.

Can we atleast get a defensive scheme that allows the DL to go after the QB vs. sitting back taking up space. and Danny Smith? are you nuts? Our special teams has sucked since he's been here. I see other teams making kick off returns and punt returns for TD's and we barely get to the 25 or 30 yard line on kick offs. Punt returns we have ARE who downs the ball.

I can live with the defense staying the same, maybe. but the special teams needs a new mind set. New blocking scheme.

I'm not sure it's fair to judge Smith based on what's happened in Washington. One consequence of the lack of depth brought about by the Redskins top down approach to building the roster is the fact that our special teams players are very poor in comparison to other teams.

And anybody bringing in a 3-4 defence is not going to bring a scheme that sees the DL going after the QB. It's the exact opposite of how that defence works.

I instinctively don't like the 3-4 defence, and that prejudice isn't helped by the fact that our 3 best players this year at getting after the qb (Haynesworth, Orakpo and Carter) would be wasted in the 3-4 scheme.

I am not saying we should switch to a 3-4... but how would it waste our three best guys? Orakpo and Carter have experience at linebacker and Haynesworth has played DE before.

The 3-4 probably isn't for us (although all the elite teams seem to used it) but we'd be in relatively good position to adjust (even though we'd have Fletcher and McIntosh who would need to go.