The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gibbs4Life wrote:wheres the guy we had in preseason, Rayner??

just what does that really have to do with this thread?

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:The fact is that the Saints are a better team and the "bad luck" that resulted had more to do with the talent on this team then it did with luck

If a professional kicker makes a 23 yard field goal they lost. I agree the Saints are a better team, I agree skill creates luck. But they weren't the better team yesterday and their win was luck. The ball hitting the Skin on a short punt was the result of a BAD play by the Saints, not a good one. The field goal was outside their control. The only one you could argue was the stripped INT, but they were lucky it wasn't a more seasoned back who picked off the ball.

Your point is generally true, but to apply it to yesterday isn't. We outplayed them and our bad/their good luck wasn't created by skill. Sorry. Not this time.

The punt was a bad play by us as well.
and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we ahead by 7 after the missed FG??

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

I don't think anyone thinks he is Drew Brees. Also, The Saints winning had little to do with Brees, and much more to do with Redskins Special Teams. What we did see is that Campbell played exponentially better that Tom Brady against the same defense with a much worse supporting cast.

Drew Brees sucked for years too. Nobody had a clue what the Saints were getting and if they say they did you know you're talking to a liar. Maybe we get the same deal from JC only in our case we keep him. That would be cool.

Have you checked Drew Brees'stats? I wouldn't say he's sucked for years. Was he setting new records? No, but a 200 yd/game average still isn't that bad considering those were LT's on fire years.

DEHog wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

Absurd to think that Brees was some special gifts to the Saint's gods on Sunday. If not for dumb luck, he would have been the losing quarterback. It was strictly no big deal that he hit a guy with no defender near him for the tying TD. That was Landry's bone headed play that tied the game up, not Brees' heroics. Board members here keep basing a QB's performance, good or bad, on what their teammates do or not do for him. It's childish and bad analysis. By the way, it's simply not true that Campbell's receivers were struggling to make catches. He made excellent throw after excellent throw all day, and many of them were great examples of hitting receivers in stride. I agree with Kaz, absolutely.
JC could be another Ripien if his protection holds up. He outplayed Brees all day. Brees had a lower QB rating than Campbell for the day for a perfectly good reason-- he played better. Subtract the two longs flat out girft TD's Brees was handed on a platter, and the fact that Campbell kicked his butt would be even more obvious. While you're at it, also consider the advantage Brees had in regard to offensive line and receivers, and the gap widens further.

Dumb luck....some of you need to face the facts
Kareem Moore FUMBLED

Kevin Barnes stood still on a punt return when his PR was telling him to get out of dodge. Shouldn't we coached that different.

We play for a FG when we could have taken a shot to close out the game
SS MISSES a 23 yard FG again coaching

JC throws an INT

Mike Sellers FUMBLED again knowing the rule shouldn't we coach to go after the fumble!!
It's not a coincidence that those plays went the way of the 11-0 team and not the 3-8 team...This game was a microcosm of our players, team, coaching staff and front office.

Stats are for fantasy and losers!!!

So Campbell great day was because he was good...
But Brees' was because of LL bone headed play..got it :up:
You only need to ask these questions
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Campbell do?
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Brees do??

DE - just want to clean up a few things on this post because they are not correct:

1. The replay clearly showed that Moore actually never intercepted the ball. That was shown on the replay and the commentators pointed that out on the replay.

2. Kevin Barnes did not just stand still. If you watch the play, he was blocking his player down field and when he was close enough to hear the call to get away, he broke down and attempted to get away. It had more to do with being in the right place at the wrong time. A 20 yd shank by the punter hits one of your players as he's attempting to get away. How quickly everything happened, there was not enough time for the player to locate the ball and get away from it.

3. Seller's was ruled down. And if you watch the replay, he did go after the ball along with the defender who made the tackle and breakup. The other Saint player thought the play was over as well. He just walked over, picked up the ball and handed to the ref. I think that you're being a bit hard on the player's - including NO because the whistle was being blown like crazy, the ref was pointing that the player was down and was very passionately doing so. Players are taught all growing up to play to the whistle - I'm just not a fan of this rule.

frankcal20 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

Absurd to think that Brees was some special gifts to the Saint's gods on Sunday. If not for dumb luck, he would have been the losing quarterback. It was strictly no big deal that he hit a guy with no defender near him for the tying TD. That was Landry's bone headed play that tied the game up, not Brees' heroics. Board members here keep basing a QB's performance, good or bad, on what their teammates do or not do for him. It's childish and bad analysis. By the way, it's simply not true that Campbell's receivers were struggling to make catches. He made excellent throw after excellent throw all day, and many of them were great examples of hitting receivers in stride. I agree with Kaz, absolutely.
JC could be another Ripien if his protection holds up. He outplayed Brees all day. Brees had a lower QB rating than Campbell for the day for a perfectly good reason-- he played better. Subtract the two longs flat out girft TD's Brees was handed on a platter, and the fact that Campbell kicked his butt would be even more obvious. While you're at it, also consider the advantage Brees had in regard to offensive line and receivers, and the gap widens further.

Dumb luck....some of you need to face the facts
Kareem Moore FUMBLED

Kevin Barnes stood still on a punt return when his PR was telling him to get out of dodge. Shouldn't we coached that different.

We play for a FG when we could have taken a shot to close out the game
SS MISSES a 23 yard FG again coaching

JC throws an INT

Mike Sellers FUMBLED again knowing the rule shouldn't we coach to go after the fumble!!
It's not a coincidence that those plays went the way of the 11-0 team and not the 3-8 team...This game was a microcosm of our players, team, coaching staff and front office.

Stats are for fantasy and losers!!!

So Campbell great day was because he was good...
But Brees' was because of LL bone headed play..got it
You only need to ask these questions
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Campbell do?
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Brees do??

DE - just want to clean up a few things on this post because they are not correct:

1. The replay clearly showed that Moore actually never intercepted the ball. That was shown on the replay and the commentators pointed that out on the replay.

OK how bout the fumble I mention did he fumble???

. Kevin Barnes did not just stand still. If you watch the play, he was blocking his player down field and when he was close enough to hear the call to get away, he broke down and attempted to get away. It had more to do with being in the right place at the wrong time. A 20 yd shank by the punter hits one of your players as he's attempting to get away. How quickly everything happened, there was not enough time for the player to locate the ball and get away from it.

Sometimes I wonder what game you're watching...he most certainly squaded to try and avoid the ball...what's easier to hit a still or moving objet.

3. Seller's was ruled down. And if you watch the replay, he did go after the ball along with the defender who made the tackle and breakup. The other Saint player thought the play was over as well. He just walked over, picked up the ball and handed to the ref. I think that you're being a bit hard on the player's - including NO because the whistle was being blown like crazy, the ref was pointing that the player was down and was very passionately doing so. Players are taught all growing up to play to the whistle - I'm just not a fan of this rule

My point is know the rule!! We also had a chance to snap the ball quickly an it would have been a moot point...So who knew....Hmmmm Sean Payton.

Frank spin it any way you want we get out coached and out played by a better team.
As I said in the GD thread it was a great game to be at I thanks the Skins for playing a great game but what you saw Sunday was the fine margin between winning and losing in the NFL.

I thought I was clear - The replay showed Moore squat down and then while he was moving, the ball hit his outside shoulder. If I have time today, I'll search online and provide you with a replay of the play.

Sure we had a chance to snap the ball quickly but with the current relaying of plays to the QB, nothing is going to happen quickly.

My thoughts on the game was that we were beat in two area's in the game - defense and special teams. Our defense and the special teams lost the game for us. I think the offense did enough to win the game. I think the defense didn't do a good job of protecting the lead at all - and that includes the coaches & players. To get beat on the same play twice in the game just on opposite sides of the field is ridiculous. The Saints even said that they knew that Landry was prone to biting on double moves is an embarrassment. We don't have to address ST's, we know why I feel that way.

And yes, Moore did get the ball stripped. He play's defense for a reason and not a running back or WR. Get down and let the offense do what they do.

frankcal20 wrote:I thought I was clear - The replay showed Moore squat down and then while he was moving, the ball hit his outside shoulder. If I have time today, I'll search online and provide you with a replay of the play.

Sure we had a chance to snap the ball quickly but with the current relaying of plays to the QB, nothing is going to happen quickly.

My thoughts on the game was that we were beat in two area's in the game - defense and special teams. Our defense and the special teams lost the game for us. I think the offense did enough to win the game. I think the defense didn't do a good job of protecting the lead at all - and that includes the coaches & players. To get beat on the same play twice in the game just on opposite sides of the field is ridiculous. The Saints even said that they knew that Landry was prone to biting on double moves is an embarrassment. We don't have to address ST's, we know why I feel that way.

And yes, Moore did get the ball stripped. He play's defense for a reason and not a running back or WR. Get down and let the offense do what they do.

I understand what your saying but one doesn't negate the other...The biggest reason we lost IMO was Coaching!

And see I think it's execution. It was pointed out on Playbook yesterday on NFL Network where they broke down the two double move plays - on the 2nd one, landry is not totally at fault. Smoot was supposed to trail the receiver but stayed way outside - by himself - so poorly executed by the defense. Also execution applies to the other double move and the FG. Coaches put them in position to make the play. Landry was in position, SS was in position but they failed to execute their jobs properly.

DEHog wrote:

The Saints winning had little to do with Brees

I stopped reading there...tell me you were kidding

The Saints won by luck and two inexplicable lapses on defense, not because of Brees. Landry burned Landry. Brees kept the Saints close with the help of excellent receivers and a great line, but he was outplayed by Campbell.

markshark84 wrote:Gary Player once said: "The harder I work, the luckier I get".

I believe that this quote is very true, and it has been true at least in my lifetime. The fact is that there are a ton of excuses skins fans can use for the outcome of the game, but there is a reason the Saints came out on top. They are a better team.

People can cry and give a list of all the "ifs" about the game, but IMHO, that is precisely what the losers do. They make excuses and attempt to divert the blame away from them by justifying an outcome. The fact is that the Saints are a better team and the "bad luck" that resulted had more to do with the talent on this team then it did with luck. Shuisham sucks, Sellers can't catch or hold onto the ball, JC can't finish games, our defense has consistently given up late drives to win games. These are all things that have happened before.

And as far as the JC vs. Brees thing. This entire arguement is idiotic. I loved the point made that JC had a better passing rating. Like that matters. Dumbest comment yet. How was JC on third down? How was he when the game was on the line? Did he put the team on his shoulders? Was he a leader? He's a QB, not a RB or WR. Stats don't tell 1/10th the story for a QB.

The fact is that JC had HIS BEST GAME AS A REDSKIN IN HIS 4 YEAR CAREER AND WE LOST!!!!!!!!! What does that tell you??? It tells me a whole lot. And if it doesn't tell you something, either you aren't listening or you refuse to.

We lost because of rotten luck, pure and simple. A kicker missed a FG that was from extra point distance-- for the first time in his career. If he kicked a hundred kicks from the same place tomorrow, he would make them all. JC had a better passing day than Brees did by actual calculation and in fact. Brees was Landry assisted; otherwise, his stats wouldn't have been even close to JC's. Get a life. You seem to be of the opinion that Brees was a better QB than Campbell Sunday because, his team, the No. I team (with the Colts) in football, beat ours, one of the worse teams.
Absurd.
Frankly, I didn't see Brees put his team on his back. He had great protection and dynamite receivers, as well as Landry, helping him all the way and still came up short, except for the kick, a fluke. By all rights, he should have lost.

It always amazes me how much some people ignore the entire rest of the team other than QB when it comes to wins and losses.

DEHog wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

Absurd to think that Brees was some special gifts to the Saint's gods on Sunday. If not for dumb luck, he would have been the losing quarterback. It was strictly no big deal that he hit a guy with no defender near him for the tying TD. That was Landry's bone headed play that tied the game up, not Brees' heroics. Board members here keep basing a QB's performance, good or bad, on what their teammates do or not do for him. It's childish and bad analysis. By the way, it's simply not true that Campbell's receivers were struggling to make catches. He made excellent throw after excellent throw all day, and many of them were great examples of hitting receivers in stride. I agree with Kaz, absolutely.
JC could be another Ripien if his protection holds up. He outplayed Brees all day. Brees had a lower QB rating than Campbell for the day for a perfectly good reason-- he played better. Subtract the two longs flat out girft TD's Brees was handed on a platter, and the fact that Campbell kicked his butt would be even more obvious. While you're at it, also consider the advantage Brees had in regard to offensive line and receivers, and the gap widens further.

Dumb luck....some of you need to face the facts
Kareem Moore FUMBLED

Kevin Barnes stood still on a punt return when his PR was telling him to get out of dodge. Shouldn't we coached that different.

We play for a FG when we could have taken a shot to close out the game
SS MISSES a 23 yard FG again coaching

JC throws an INT

Mike Sellers FUMBLED again knowing the rule shouldn't we coach to go after the fumble!!
It's not a coincidence that those plays went the way of the 11-0 team and not the 3-8 team...This game was a microcosm of our players, team, coaching staff and front office.

Stats are for fantasy and losers!!!

So Campbell great day was because he was good...
But Brees' was because of LL bone headed play..got it
You only need to ask these questions
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Campbell do?
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Brees do??

Brees accepted a gift fumble from Sellers. Before that, he accepted a gift TD from Landry. Great job, Brees.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

Absurd to think that Brees was some special gifts to the Saint's gods on Sunday. If not for dumb luck, he would have been the losing quarterback. It was strictly no big deal that he hit a guy with no defender near him for the tying TD. That was Landry's bone headed play that tied the game up, not Brees' heroics. Board members here keep basing a QB's performance, good or bad, on what their teammates do or not do for him. It's childish and bad analysis. By the way, it's simply not true that Campbell's receivers were struggling to make catches. He made excellent throw after excellent throw all day, and many of them were great examples of hitting receivers in stride. I agree with Kaz, absolutely.
JC could be another Ripien if his protection holds up. He outplayed Brees all day. Brees had a lower QB rating than Campbell for the day for a perfectly good reason-- he played better. Subtract the two longs flat out girft TD's Brees was handed on a platter, and the fact that Campbell kicked his butt would be even more obvious. While you're at it, also consider the advantage Brees had in regard to offensive line and receivers, and the gap widens further.

Dumb luck....some of you need to face the facts
Kareem Moore FUMBLED

Kevin Barnes stood still on a punt return when his PR was telling him to get out of dodge. Shouldn't we coached that different.

We play for a FG when we could have taken a shot to close out the game
SS MISSES a 23 yard FG again coaching

JC throws an INT

Mike Sellers FUMBLED again knowing the rule shouldn't we coach to go after the fumble!!
It's not a coincidence that those plays went the way of the 11-0 team and not the 3-8 team...This game was a microcosm of our players, team, coaching staff and front office.

Stats are for fantasy and losers!!!

So Campbell great day was because he was good...
But Brees' was because of LL bone headed play..got it
You only need to ask these questions
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Campbell do?
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Brees do??

Brees accepted a gift fumble from Sellers. Before that, he accepted a gift TD from Landry. Great job, Brees.

Not of the things I mentioned had anything to do with it??

Brees took the opportunity and converted it into a win.

Campbell took the opportunity... ummm... not so much...

Brees has "it". Campbell has a hidden dragon. It is what it is. Campbell is capable of creating a lead through the game plan. He does not seem, however, to have the ability to work in the clutch.

Is it Campbells fault that we lost? Absolutely not. The issue is, you'd like very much to know that your quarterback, given 2 minutes of time and needing 3 points, would offer you an even shot at engineering that score.

Campbell can manage a game plan.

But, do you really feel good about him running a 2 minute offense?

DEHog wrote:The punt was a bad play by us as well

How so? Guys running down the field aren't able to watch the ball, when it's short and they are running down to cover it and hits them how exactly can they avoid that? The reason teams don't kick short on purpose is it would be high probability of not hitting a player and then the other team gets great field posession over and over for the occasional recovery. The Saints didn't do it on purpose, it was a bad punt that worked out by fluke.

Regardless it doesn't counter my point that on that play good play didn't create luck, bad play by the Saints did regardless of whether we played it well or not.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:The punt was a bad play by us as well

How so? Guys running down the field aren't able to watch the ball, when it's short and they are running down to cover it and hits them how exactly can they avoid that? The reason teams don't kick short on purpose is it would be high probability of not hitting a player and then the other team gets great field posession over and over for the occasional recovery. The Saints didn't do it on purpose, it was a bad punt that worked out by fluke.

Regardless it doesn't counter my point that on that play good play didn't create luck, bad play by the Saints did regardless of whether we played it well or not.

I agree it was primarily the result of a poor play by the Saints. Just as the fumble by Moore on the Brees INT we made a mistake on the play…. IMO Randle El did a good job flying up and yelling poison or whatever the Skins word is they use. I have been taught and coach my players to choose a direction and run!! If you’re close to the sideline run out of bounds. My problem with Barnes is he stopped and squatted…your a lot smarter than us (I know because you remind us everyday ) so I ask you…wouldn’t there be less of a chance for the ball to hit a moving object than a still one??

Countertrey wrote:Brees took the opportunity and converted it into a win.

Campbell took the opportunity... ummm... not so much...

Brees has "it". Campbell has a hidden dragon. It is what it is. Campbell is capable of creating a lead through the game plan. He does not seem, however, to have the ability to work in the clutch.

Is it Campbells fault that we lost? Absolutely not. The issue is, you'd like very much to know that your quarterback, given 2 minutes of time and needing 3 points, would offer you an even shot at engineering that score.

Campbell can manage a game plan.

But, do you really feel good about him running a 2 minute offense?

That all I'm saying I agree CT...good post!

They won and we lost - no one play or player was responsible for the win OR the loss

in my opinion we do not have a group of players that can find a way to get it done - we can come close but we have to get "lucky" to win a game - sure the Saints were lucky but they feel that they will win each game because they believe in the team concept and we do not

we can be that type of team again if the people in charge know what they are doing - this starts with a GM with a plan, he assembles a coaching staff and together they find a group of players to execute the plays that are designed to suit what they are so talented at doing

Campbell could be a good QB who could help other players who also could help him - this is a team game - Suisham always makes that kick but we shouldn't need to just make a kick OR not fumble a ball at a bad time - good teams find a way to mitigate mistakes and we are not a good team

Countertrey wrote:But, do you really feel good about him running a 2 minute offense?

Absolutely not. He does not have the LEADERSHIP qualities needed as the QB of this team to inspire confidence among his peers, coaches and fans.

He does not even show conviction in his game. I am tired of the faces of disappointment in him, Zorn and his fellow players. They walk into a 2 minute drive without the determination and conviction that they WILL win the game, no matter what.

If there was an analogy to Shakespearean theater, they play more like actors in a grand tragedy than a heroic play. More Hamlet and his doubts than Henry the V and his tremendous leadership in St Crispian's day.

Two leaders. One tragic and full of doubt, the other heroic and full of conviction and determination.

This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

The difference..
Brees (and others) know they can..
Campbell thinks he can...

DEHog wrote:so I ask you…wouldn’t there be less of a chance for the ball to hit a moving object than a still one??

Certainly by probability because a moving object covers by definition more ground in the same period of time. But I'm not sure the point on this. How do you cover punts by not moving?

DEHog wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

The Saints winning had little to do with Brees

I stopped reading there...tell me you were kidding

I'm not. If Suisham makes a field goal that is made 99% of the time its over. That is your ball game. Nothing else mattered.

Really the 1:50 didn't matter??? It took Brees 33 sec put another 7 on the board and on a day where we had a fumble for a TD, a missed 23 yarder, a INT and another fumble in OT your 100% sure that "Nothing else mattered"??

First, yes a ten point lead with under 2 to go WOULD HAVE resulted in a win.
Second, there is no guarantee that the Saints score again in 33 secs! You don't think the Skins wouldn't have played a different D with a ten point lead vice a 7 point lead. Of course they would have.
Third, recovering an onside kick, when everyone knows its coming has a less than 10% success rate.

Swishy makes that FG - Skins win. No ifs, ands or buts!

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:so I ask you…wouldn’t there be less of a chance for the ball to hit a moving object than a still one??

Certainly by probability because a moving object covers by definition more ground in the same period of time. But I'm not sure the point on this. How do you cover punts by not moving?

Doesn't have to do with that it about what he did fter Randle El was yelling to get away.

quote="DEHog"]

brad7686 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

The Saints winning had little to do with Brees

I stopped reading there...tell me you were kidding

I'm not. If Suisham makes a field goal that is made 99% of the time its over. That is your ball game. Nothing else mattered.

Really the 1:50 didn't matter??? It took Brees 33 sec put another 7 on the board and on a day where we had a fumble for a TD, a missed 23 yarder, a INT and another fumble in OT your 100% sure that "Nothing else mattered"??[/quote]

First, yes a ten point lead with under 2 to go WOULD HAVE resulted in a win.

How do you know??

Second, there is no guarantee that the Saints score again in 33 secs! You don't think the Skins wouldn't have played a different D with a ten point lead vice a 7 point lead. Of course they would have.

How so...I would think they'd play to not allow a TD with only a 7 point lead...what would that have done with a 10 point lead??

Third, recovering an onside kick, when everyone knows its coming has a less than 10% success rate.

So what your saying is there was a chance??
What the pecentage on a punt hitting a player?
What the percentage on a fumble after a INT?
What the pecentage on a 23 yard FG?

Swishy makes that FG - Skins win. No ifs, ands or buts!

Most likely but there are plenty of IF ands and Buts!!

DEHog wrote:Dumb luck....some of you need to face the facts
Kareem Moore FUMBLED

No it was just poor officiating! Moore didn't have a pick. Brees didn't throw any INTs. After watching the replays severval times I'm 100% certain the ball hit the ground more than once and I'm convinced the refs new it was an inconpletion and were attempting to spot where the ball should be placed (watch the replay), but for some reason the just diecided to chuck the rule book and give the Saints the TD.

DEHog wrote:We play for a FG when we could have taken a shot to close out the game
SS MISSES a 23 yard FG again coaching

Are you trying to blame the Skins ex-kicker's miss on the coaches or the fact that Zorn went with the odds and went for the win by ensuring that we had an attempt at what was essentially a extra point attempt. Whitch by the way is a roughly 99% success rate.

How if you are saying, giving up an 99% chance of salting the game is bad coaching, then I know your just screwing with us.

DEHog wrote:Mike Sellers FUMBLED again knowing the rule shouldn't we coach to go after the fumble!!

I'm not certain if Sellers was down or not prior to the ball coming out, but what I am certain of is there is NO WAY that was conclusive evidence and the Umpire SHOULD NOT have overturned the ruling on the field.

You didn't mention the fact that after we went up 30-20 in the 4th we recovered the kickoff and the refs gave the ball to the Saints. Still have no idea why or how they got away with doing that!

On topic though. JC had one of his best games as a Skin. He did enough for us not to lose the game (not enough for us to win the game!). But I'm not about to overlook all of JCs short comings off of one game.

He slow in his deliveries, double clutches passes, takes too long to read defenses, and throws a horrendous deep ball.

His deep throws are just awful. They are flat and off target 90% of the time. He had his best day last Sunday throwing the deep ball and he must have thrown 8 or nine passes over 20 yards and only one was what I would say was a good pass. The one to ARE deep down the seam. He threw one to DT that was underthrown, but did draw a PI, he thre another that was underthrown and had it been on target DT scores. Same for one of the two he threw to Moss. The other one he threw to Moss was late and over thrown and again if he had hit in stride it would have been six.

There were a couple of other deep pases that I can't recall right now.

I can't see his down field accuracy ever getting much better and I doubt he will ever be quick at reading Defenses and he will never be clutch.

That said. There won't be that much available in the offseason in the QB tallent pool.