Pasquarelli on Campbell

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:17 am

I have some thoughts on this, as well...

Snout · Post by **Snout** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:51 am

While I don't think Campbell will ever be a Hall of Fame quarterback, I am convinced that we should keep him. Why? Because we have so many other needs right now, changing the quarterback is not going to change the end result. We need to rebuild. We need depth. It would be a major setback to waste -- yes, waste -- a high draft pick on a quarterback. Why? Because we have too many other needs. Because even if we found a great one, he would never develop, never succeed. We are not one quarterback away from greatness. We are about 11 new starters away from greatness. A good team can go far with a mediocre quarterback like Theismann, Williams, Rypien . . . or Campbell. Let's get our priorities straight.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:12 am

Yeah, on one hand I still believe that Campbell has some talent. I stand by what I said earlier... but on the other hand...

I am reading Joe Theismann's autobiography (from 1987, my old man has a lot of old sports books that I've been reading lately) and there was an anecdote from Joe's sophomore year at Notre Dame. He was in his 3rd college game as an undersized sophomore and he threw a pick-six. He trotted back to the sidelines and told his coach "Don't worry about it, I'll get it all back." I can't imagine Campbell ever having that kind of confidence in his own abilities.

He's obviously not a long term solution, but it might be a good idea to keep him for one more year.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:52 am

Countertrey wrote:I have some thoughts on this, as well...

Well written. Itsums it all well. Fair, balanced and objective.

How did you expect to find these qualities in a Pastabelly piece? :shock:

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:03 am

He trotted back to the sidelines and told his coach "Don't worry about it, I'll get it all back." I can't imagine Campbell ever having that kind of confidence in his own abilities.

That, sir, is the difference between Medium, and "IT".

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:14 am

Skinsfan55 wrote:Yeah, on one hand I still believe that Campbell has some talent. I stand by what I said earlier... but on the other hand...

I am reading Joe Theismann's autobiography (from 1987, my old man has a lot of old sports books that I've been reading lately) and there was an anecdote from Joe's sophomore year at Notre Dame. He was in his 3rd college game as an undersized sophomore and he threw a pick-six. He trotted back to the sidelines and told his coach "Don't worry about it, I'll get it all back." I can't imagine Campbell ever having that kind of confidence in his own abilities.

He's obviously not a long term solution, but it might be a good idea to keep him for one more year.

To be fair, it's a lot easier to excel in college than it is in the NFL. I understand what you're getting at, but it's a little bit different here.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:32 am

We don't know what's said on the sidelines. Just because he's not jumping around, making a fool of himself or pouting like Jay Cutler after every mistake, then he doesn't have any internal drive?

That's just 100% wrong. The kid made it to the NFL. There is so much hard work he's done his whole life to fine tune his talent to get to this level. That's drive that gets you there. So I can't think that he's just ok with mediocrity.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:16 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I don't see a team willing to trade for him because most around the league expect both to part ways. With that being said, if there is a chance to sign him to a short term deal - 3 years or whatnot, that would allow him a chance to get some better film and allow Washington to bring in a young QB who can learn the nuances of the NFL before being thrown to the wolves while this line is being rebuilt.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that the Skins are going to extend JC's contract. The idea of that is absurd. The Skins have made clear that JC is not in their future plans and no matter what happens with the cap, he is either gone as a free agent or will be cut by the team. JC has had his chance and failed, he's done in DC. That should be clear to everyone at this point.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:21 pm

"Great" QB's are few and far between. There are only like 5 in the NFL now out of 32 teams and they say that right now is the age of the NFL QB - more very good QB's than ever.

I don't know how you define "great", but there are way more than 5 very good qb's in the NFL....Peyton, Rivers, Big Ben, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, McNabb, Romo, etc. Ryan and Flacco are also on their way to being very good NFL qb's.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:01 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see JC have more success with another team.

I agree with most of you though that he doesn't seem likely to be anything more than just an okay QB.

spudstr04 · Post by **spudstr04** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:11 pm

USAFSkinFan wrote:He's a heck of a guy, but he just doesn't have "it"

I don't know if "it" is talent level or personality or leadership skills or thick skin or arrogance or what, but there's always been something missing...

Maybe it's possible to be too nice to be an NFL QB...

Kinda like how Jim Zorn is too nice to be a head coach in the NFL

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:22 pm

Lenny's a genious !!!! :roll:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:06 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
"Great" QB's are few and far between. There are only like 5 in the NFL now out of 32 teams and they say that right now is the age of the NFL QB - more very good QB's than ever.

I don't know how you define "great", but there are way more than 5 very good qb's in the NFL....Peyton, Rivers, Big Ben, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, McNabb, Romo, etc.

That's seven QBs, and Romo shouldn't be on there. That takes us to six; I'd add Warner to the list which would bring us back up to seven. Perhaps Favre goes on there, too, even considering his age. So that's seven, maybe eight QBs who would qualify as very good. Is that "way more" than 5?

Besides, it wouldn't take a very rigorous definition of "great" to get rid of McNabb and Rogers, as well as other potential QBs whom you didn't list but who are inconsistent even if skilled (Palmer, Delhomme).

Anyway, I don't see how what you're saying differs from frankcal's point. Actually what you said seems to support his statement. And I agree with him: there are very few great QBs in the league at any given time.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:06 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:I don't see a team willing to trade for him because most around the league expect both to part ways. With that being said, if there is a chance to sign him to a short term deal - 3 years or whatnot, that would allow him a chance to get some better film and allow Washington to bring in a young QB who can learn the nuances of the NFL before being thrown to the wolves while this line is being rebuilt.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that the Skins are going to extend JC's contract. The idea of that is absurd. The Skins have made clear that JC is not in their future plans and no matter what happens with the cap, he is either gone as a free agent or will be cut by the team. JC has had his chance and failed, he's done in DC. That should be clear to everyone at this point.

We can't say that because we do not have the new GM or Coach running the show. If Vinny is still running the show and D. Snyder is still meddling in things he knows nothing about - football, the yes, JC will be 100% gone but they showed their hand that they want anything but Jason Campbell.

But if a GM like Bill Parcells comes in here and says that JC will be the QB and whoever he brings in as the coach say's that JC will be the QB, then JC's the QB. If it's an uncapped year, JC has another year to play here and if I know this team, like I think I do, they will want high compensation for JC. I don't see them giving him away for like a 6th round pick.

All I'm saying is it's way too early for anyone to make assumptions about what's going to happen to this team until we first see if there are going to be changes made in the front office or NOT!!!!

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:40 pm

Well maybe 'great' is too much but whatever, we need a very good NFL QB and while Campbell may be a good back-up I just don't think he's worth keeping - IF Campbell had at least showed anything this year I would feel a bit different.

Campbell has not shown anything on the field OR as a leader here this year - this team needs a good QB (Campbell is definetly not that) and we need a leader at QB not someone who has potential

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:46 pm

frankcal20 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:I don't see a team willing to trade for him because most around the league expect both to part ways. With that being said, if there is a chance to sign him to a short term deal - 3 years or whatnot, that would allow him a chance to get some better film and allow Washington to bring in a young QB who can learn the nuances of the NFL before being thrown to the wolves while this line is being rebuilt.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that the Skins are going to extend JC's contract. The idea of that is absurd. The Skins have made clear that JC is not in their future plans and no matter what happens with the cap, he is either gone as a free agent or will be cut by the team. JC has had his chance and failed, he's done in DC. That should be clear to everyone at this point.

We can't say that because we do not have the new GM or Coach running the show. If Vinny is still running the show and D. Snyder is still meddling in things he knows nothing about - football, the yes, JC will be 100% gone but they showed their hand that they want anything but Jason Campbell.

But if a GM like Bill Parcells comes in here and says that JC will be the QB and whoever he brings in as the coach say's that JC will be the QB, then JC's the QB. If it's an uncapped year, JC has another year to play here and if I know this team, like I think I do, they will want high compensation for JC. I don't see them giving him away for like a 6th round pick.

All I'm saying is it's way too early for anyone to make assumptions about what's going to happen to this team until we first see if there are going to be changes made in the front office or NOT!!!!

It doesn't matter who is in the front office. JC is done here no matter what. No new GM or coach is going to want to be saddled with such a poor qb. It's a recipe for failure, plain and simple. Unless we hire another unqualified coach, I just don't see any scenario under which JC remains with the Skins.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:00 pm

As I mentioned, I'm going to wait until a GM is here and see what happens with the Players Agreement.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:31 pm

You know something - Campbell kind of reminds me of this 'team' right now - lots of talent but just cannot find a way to get it done :wink:

maybe he will do well with another team but the problem is we do not need a QB that is good on another team, we need a QB that can help make this team better and Campbell is not that QB - he's got 7 games left and I hope he shows that "inner dragon" thing or he will not even get a decent trade deal for us

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:46 pm

For a strech of eight games Jason Campbell showed us he could be a winner. In actuality it was six games I remember vividly. In the first half of the 2008 season right before the Pittsburg game.

I am sure we all remember. Jason Campbell had not thrown an interception in seven games. In the first outing against the Cowboys he looked great. Took chances, was confident and was winning us football games.

Then the Pittsburg game happened. JC got sacked numerous times and intercepted many times. Ever since then I have not seen that winning QB again. Even in our last win. We see flashes of what could be. Well its been four years now and he is running out of time. Even if he does a mediocre job it may not save his job. He is going to have to be spectacular and get us to the playoffs. While I wont hold my breath. I do hope in the back of my mind that somehow he pulls it out.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:04 pm

Sorry HH - while Campbell has not been the main reason our offense is so bad he also was certainly not the main reason we went 6-2 at the begining of last year, or even that we went 2-6 to finish

while it was helpful that he did not make too many mistakes the guy just was not and has not made me feel like he's a good NFL QB - he's way too slow and I don't think he can read defenses - he has no idea pre-snap what is going on back there or who is likely to be open

It's not all on Campbell but he certainly has not done much to help the team either, unfortunately :shock:

it would be great if he could have a decent last 7 games here because I do not think Snyder wants him back and I doubt the new coach is going to need him either

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:47 pm

That's a strong assumption being that no coach or new GM has been hired.

...Here is a little gripe I have. Is it too much to ask to give the guy a break based off of what has happened here. You can't look at this with blinder's on. I feel like some on here just have the expectations that the QB must be a top QB in the NFL. This QB - like Ramsey has been hung out to dry. Even though it's different, it's not that different. Fan's got on Ramsey back in the day because he took sacks but we all know that OBC didn't ever put in protection schemes that could help any QB. JC's not been in an offense to ever feel comfortable. They say it takes 3 years to fully install an offense. For all the parts to start to work. Well, we are 1 1/2 years in and everyone is ready to tie them up and burn them at the stake. They are just not "Playing Football." It's a lot more than that. The talent level is pretty even in the NFL so the whole team has to be nearly perfect for things to work. I will admit that JC's performance has been less than spectacular but I think it's very easy and probably be pretty common for him to make mistakes based on the amount of change this team has had. And I'm not talking about just the offensive scheme. I'm talking about lack of an offensive line - although we go into the season looking good - it never lasts long. There are so many moving parts to this team that any player is going to struggle on the offensive side of the ball. The only thing that's stayed the same is Joe Gibbs' running game.

On that note, I'm not sold on CP. I've been saying for two years now that he's on the downside of his career and although he's played hurt, I don't think he's been the best RB on this team or the guy who gave us the best chance to win. I've always thought that Betts and Cartright as a combo could stack up against any defense and be productive. They don't have blazing speed or game changing ability but they are both hard workers who will fight for every opportunity to make a play. If you look at their stat's, I think they both are somewhere around 4 yds per carry career wise.

I look at Clinton's history with this team. He's not a bruising back. He's not going to hit one - ever. In the 4 or 5 years he's been here, he's had 2 long run. One, against TB where it was his first play as a Redskin and the other just this season. I don't ever really remember him being a large factor in a game like the combo of Betts and Rock where this past weekend.

In closing, I think that the ownership & Coaches commitment to him as our sole RB has been one of the main reason's that this offense has been ineffective. Add in the lack of a consistently healthy offensive line, there is no way ANY qb could be successful in our offenses we've had here.

I don't expect anyone to agree but you have to see where I would/could come to this opinion.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:47 pm

Oh! yet another thread about the future of Campbell ... :roll:

WHY EVEN BOTHER ???? OUR OPINIONS DO NOT COUNT.

Guys, the Front Office, i.e., Dan Snyder, already made it clear through VARIOUS past signals that he does not want Jason back as a starter. Darn, he did not even want him to start this season if he had been able to pull a deal somewhere for Cutler, Sanchez or whoever else was available with a bit of an upgrade. :wink:

Jason will not be the starter next year. GUARANTEED.

With so many holes at several positions plus lack of depth, I certainly do not know how the acquisition of a new QB could possibly work out but who says we need an OL, right. :lol:

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:06 pm

..Here is a little gripe I have. Is it too much to ask to give the guy a break based off of what has happened here. You can't look at this with blinder's on. I feel like some on here just have the expectations that the QB must be a top QB in the NFL. This QB - like Ramsey has been hung out to dry. Even though it's different, it's not that different. Fan's got on Ramsey back in the day because he took sacks but we all know that OBC didn't ever put in protection schemes that could help any QB. JC's not been in an offense to ever feel comfortable. They say it takes 3 years to fully install an offense. For all the parts to start to work. Well, we are 1 1/2 years in and everyone is ready to tie them up and burn them at the stake. They are just not "Playing Football." It's a lot more than that. The talent level is pretty even in the NFL so the whole team has to be nearly perfect for things to work. I will admit that JC's performance has been less than spectacular but I think it's very easy and probably be pretty common for him to make mistakes based on the amount of change this team has had. And I'm not talking about just the offensive scheme. I'm talking about lack of an offensive line - although we go into the season looking good - it never lasts long. There are so many moving parts to this team that any player is going to struggle on the offensive side of the ball. The only thing that's stayed the same is Joe Gibbs' running game.

You can make excuses all you want, but the bottom line is that JC lacks the ability to be a good NFL player. He has a solid arm, decent mobility, and good size for an NFL qb, but that's it. JC has a slow release, is terrible at reading defenses and finding open receivers, doesn't usually put enough touch on short passes, has trouble consistently hitting his receivers in stride, is unable (or unwilling) to throw the ball until after his receivers have made their break, and throws a horrendous deep ball. He simply has too many weaknesses to overcome.

People make the excuse that he doesn't fit in a WCO and that he would excel in a vertical passing attack. How would he do that if he struggles throwing the ball downfield?

The bottom line is that JC simply isn't a starter in the NFL. The ability just isn't there. Gibbs made a mistake in drafting JC and it's time to move on.

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:15 pm

frankcal20 wrote:That's a strong assumption being that no coach or new GM has been hired.

...Here is a little gripe I have. Is it too much to ask to give the guy a break based off of what has happened here. You can't look at this with blinder's on. I feel like some on here just have the expectations that the QB must be a top QB in the NFL. This QB - like Ramsey has been hung out to dry. Even though it's different, it's not that different. Fan's got on Ramsey back in the day because he took sacks but we all know that OBC didn't ever put in protection schemes that could help any QB. JC's not been in an offense to ever feel comfortable. They say it takes 3 years to fully install an offense. For all the parts to start to work. Well, we are 1 1/2 years in and everyone is ready to tie them up and burn them at the stake. They are just not "Playing Football." It's a lot more than that. The talent level is pretty even in the NFL so the whole team has to be nearly perfect for things to work. I will admit that JC's performance has been less than spectacular but I think it's very easy and probably be pretty common for him to make mistakes based on the amount of change this team has had. And I'm not talking about just the offensive scheme. I'm talking about lack of an offensive line - although we go into the season looking good - it never lasts long. There are so many moving parts to this team that any player is going to struggle on the offensive side of the ball. The only thing that's stayed the same is Joe Gibbs' running game.

On that note, I'm not sold on CP. I've been saying for two years now that he's on the downside of his career and although he's played hurt, I don't think he's been the best RB on this team or the guy who gave us the best chance to win. I've always thought that Betts and Cartright as a combo could stack up against any defense and be productive. They don't have blazing speed or game changing ability but they are both hard workers who will fight for every opportunity to make a play. If you look at their stat's, I think they both are somewhere around 4 yds per carry career wise.

I look at Clinton's history with this team. He's not a bruising back. He's not going to hit one - ever. In the 4 or 5 years he's been here, he's had 2 long run. One, against TB where it was his first play as a Redskin and the other just this season. I don't ever really remember him being a large factor in a game like the combo of Betts and Rock where this past weekend.

In closing, I think that the ownership & Coaches commitment to him as our sole RB has been one of the main reason's that this offense has been ineffective. Add in the lack of a consistently healthy offensive line, there is no way ANY qb could be successful in our offenses we've had here.

I don't expect anyone to agree but you have to see where I would/could come to this opinion.

Right on Frank. I could not agree more. J. Campbell may not be the long term answer but he is not the reason this team stinks. The lack of an offensive line, poor coaching, poor management, poor offensive style and a lack of football people is the problem.

As for CP - I think he is almost done as well. He should also consider not playing thr rest of the year since he has had the concussion. No point in risking his future for a team headed no where.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:46 pm

You can make excuses all you want, but the bottom line is that JC lacks the ability to be a good NFL player. He has a solid arm, decent mobility, and good size for an NFL qb, but that's it.

See I feel that is still to be determine...

JC has a slow release, is terrible at reading defenses and finding open receivers, doesn't usually put enough touch on short passes, has trouble consistently hitting his receivers in stride, is unable (or unwilling) to throw the ball until after his receivers have made their break, and throws a horrendous deep ball.

Do you know the plays that are being called? Do you know the route progressions? Do you know what it feels like to have a 300 lb DT or 280 lb DE breathing down your neck? You might be like JC thinking, get the ball out of your hands to avoid the sack - yet again.

He simply has too many weaknesses to overcome.

Most NFL Talent Evaluators dissagree.

People make the excuse that he doesn't fit in a WCO and that he would excel in a vertical passing attack. How would he do that if he struggles throwing the ball downfield?

The bottom line is that JC simply isn't a starter in the NFL. The ability just isn't there. Gibbs made a mistake in drafting JC and it's time to move on.

Many NFL minds would disagree with you. I personally thing that he has all the tools it takes to be a good NFL QB. Not a great QB but good. Given the right system, a coaching staff that stays the same for 3 years and the right offensive line, I think he could be an effective passer. But that's where we disagree and that's ok. You and I have been going back and forth on this all season and I really do hope that he's successful in his NFL tenure. I'm a pretty prideful guy and think that I can see talent when I see it. I think he's got it but if you don't, you are entitled to your own opinion.