Kaz - I'm on board, Danny is a moron

[El Mexican]

What seems amazing is that EVERYONE on this board was absolutely sure convinced that the OLINE was priority number 1 this offseason.

Sadly, the FO never saw this problem and opted to bring in a few guys and arrange a patchwork solution.

It's absurd. But that's Vinny for ya.

Something is clearly wrong inside Redskins' HC and it seems there is no medium or short term solution to the problem.

[PulpExposure]

Now supposedly according to Vinny Cerrato on his radio show, Zorn is the "coach of the Redskins for the rest of this season and hopefully longer."

Baffled. Utterly baffled.

[SkinsJock]

What seems amazing is that EVERYONE on this board was absolutely sure convinced that the OLINE was priority number 1 this offseason. Sadly, the FO never saw this problem and opted to bring in a few guys and arrange a patchwork solution. It's absurd. But that's Vinny for ya.

Something is clearly wrong inside Redskins' HC and it seems there is no medium or short term solution to the problem.

To be fair - this team has had issues with both lines for some time - they decided to address the defensive line by taking Orakpo - fact is the talent of offensive linemen and specifically tackles was felt at the time to not be the best way to go - the team also acquired DE Jarmon who looks like he could be a very good player also.

There were many here that wanted more done to help the offensive line but this was apparently not possible and while the team was hoping/praying for a lot of things to be a little better for another year, this did not happen. Actually nothing that they had hoped & prayed for on the offensive side has worked out


The short term and long term outlook remains the same - Snyder will most likely get rid of both Zorn and Cerrato but, unfortunately, if he continues to be as involved with the team as he has been, we know what to expect - I really hope he stops meddling and turns the team over to some NFL savvy guys but I think his ego is such that he will continue to try and get things back on track here - Snyder needs to let go and I do not think he will do that

[old-timer]

So, greed comes when, at the expense of the reputation of a whole organization, saving a few millions owed in a contract to the head coach are more important than the collective ridicule and loss of discipline and morale of the entire Team.

Is it stupid not to sacrifice a few million, less than five, for a franchise worth over a BILLION dollars? You know the answer better than anybody else in this board.

That is why this owner represents: INCOMPETENCE, GREED and FAILURE.

I think you've got a point here which shows that Danny may be acting greedily - although you've been saying for a long time that Danny is greedy and this is the first instance I've seen where it could be justified. You can't call Danny greedy for charging folks $10 for a beer or whatever when every NFL owner does it - and if they're all greedy, I think that none of them are.

Danny's actions at this point bring to mind the saying 'never attribute to malice what can attributed to mere stupidity'. In this case, the stupidity of pride and disappointment that Danny is experiencing as yet another of this decisions has gone sour, and he is trying to punish Zorn out of spite by depriving him of his contract money. Danny threw tens of millions at a single player, I don't think it's greed that drives him, it's a childish ego.

If anyone is motivated by money, it's Zorn - he wants his contract payout. And I don't blame him, if I was in his position, I would do exactly the same. Zorn is still viable as a coach in this league, noone is going to blame him for taking the money from the league's village idiot of an owner.

[stacylee12]

With all due respect to and shared misery with my fellow fans, I am compelled to take this opportunity to not so much defend D Snyder's actions but his rights.

I own a business myself and I cringe at this concept of demanding he "sell the team"....... He is the one who came up with $800 million to buy the team and anyone who does that, in my opinion, within whatever limitations exist contractually with the NFL has every right to do what he wants.

AND I sincerely believe what he WANTS is to have a winning, respected and of course profitable franchise.

Last year, after we beat the Eagles during our great start, I remember seeing Snyder jumping up and down and giddy outside our locker room after the game. I was too (albeit in my living room ! Does anyone really, really, really think he is not doing everything he thinks is right for the team?

I am no more capable of raising $800 million as I am of running a football team though I as a fan have my observations and opinions and criticisms INCLUDING of the actions of the owner but honestly, I have no doubt of his intentions.

This Create a Winning Franchise business is not a given though if you read the message boards of all 32 teams across the league, you'd think all the solutions are out there, I don't know how these teams don't go undefeated every year! The NFL is VERY CAREFULLY DESIGNED to have us go 8-8.

When you do worse, there have been missteps, bad luck, wrong predictions...

When you do better, there have been smooth moves, good luck, accurate foresight...

And then there is the other team on the gridiron on Sunday!

Whether you call him a recalcitrant child or an uber fan, all I can say is I too very much hope The Danny gets what he wants, because I want it too.

Hail to the Redskins! And what the heck: Hail to the Chief!

edited cuz i hate typos

[DEHog]

I own a business myself and I cringe at this concept of demanding he "sell the team"....... He is the one who came up with $800 million to buy the team and anyone who does that, in my opinion, within whatever limitations exist contractually with the NFL has every right to do what he wants.

You won't get a argument from me...however customers have a right to not use your business forcing you to sell or move ( I don't see that happening here) As for the rest of the post I agree...The 80's spoiled this franchise...I for one don't expect a SB or even playoffs every year...I just like to see use play a meaniful game in late December every few years!!

[Irn-Bru]

I own a business myself and I cringe at this concept of demanding he "sell the team"....... He is the one who came up with $800 million to buy the team and anyone who does that, in my opinion, within whatever limitations exist contractually with the NFL has every right to do what he wants.

I agree with this, insofar as Snyder is within his rights. So, if he doesn't care at all what the fans think about him, sure, keep the team. But the fan base is fairly united in thinking that Snyder is the wrong man for this job, and chants to sell the team are just an expression of that sentiment. Snyder can do what he wants, of course, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.

Last year, after we beat the Eagles during our great start, I remember seeing Snyder jumping up and down and giddy outside our locker room after the game. I was too (albeit in my living room ! Does anyone really, really, really think he is not doing everything he thinks is right for the team?

I really do not think he is doing everything he thinks is right for the team. Snyder, in my view, has some personal issues that are conflicting with what should be his sole calling: a successful franchise. There have been stories of his own ego getting in the way of letting coaches do their job, personnel evaluators exercising authority, and players re-signing with the team.

(Snyder is the guy who would not put out the contracts to retain Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce, for example. In his controlling way he told them there was no way they'd get a better contract than the one he was offering. When they did, he didn't budge, but why? Because it wasn't worth the extra million to sign them, or because then he'd look weak?)

When someone whose expertise is not in football (and for whom ten years of micromanagement have borne out that fact) continues to do things his way, he cannot have the team's best interests at heart.

I have no doubt of his intentions.

I can understand this perspective. This is where I disagree with you: to me, Snyder's integrity is not beyond question and doubt. There are enough anecdotes of how he treats his employees, people who contract with him, coaches, staff, and players that I truly believe he is not a virtuous person. He intimidates people under him and undermines the authority of others. The Redskins 'spin' that we have often seen in news reports also makes me suspect that outright lies on his part are not out of the question.

[Redskin in Canada]

Hail to the Redskins! And what the heck: Hail to the Chief!

Only those who choose to deserve this owner should have him.

Daniel Snyder wants a Lombardi Trophy to satisfy his ego along the same lines that a crying child demands a toy kicking and screaming. Both of them seem to be defined by the same capricious and immature nature.

Yes, Stacey. You are right. This tream is HIS toy. He can cry, kick and screm all he wants. Please pay your share of emotion and commitment to this team before you leave the room please.

[DEHog]

I'm assuming you met Zorn and I was strongly against it as well...all that said...you think Zorn should walk away and leave 4 mil on the table.

I love how Zorn has played this he has exposed and finally proven what we have all suspected and he's going to leave with Danyy's $$$$

I'm not sure what the first sentence means. As for walking away with the money, obviously I respect his right to do that, but you pay for everything one way or another. If he's willing to sell his respect for $4m, then I guess we've assigned a dollar value to Zorn's respect.

You no what Kaz I have a new theory, in light of the “ Zorn is here for the rest of the year” statement. Not only do I think Zorn didn’t sell his respect for 4 mil I’d be willing to bet Snyder offered him more than that to resign and he said no..hence this statement.

You want to see what selling your respect looks like…

[El Mexican]

Now supposedly according to Vinny Cerrato on his radio show, Zorn is the "coach of the Redskins for the rest of this season and hopefully longer."

Baffled. Utterly baffled.

This is your typical "kiss of death".

Once the organization says this about the coach, they are implying that they have, in fact, considered firing Zorn. It's a stop gap solution until the end of the season.

[El Mexican]

What seems amazing is that EVERYONE on this board was absolutely sure convinced that the OLINE was priority number 1 this offseason. Sadly, the FO never saw this problem and opted to bring in a few guys and arrange a patchwork solution. It's absurd. But that's Vinny for ya.

Something is clearly wrong inside Redskins' HC and it seems there is no medium or short term solution to the problem.

To be fair - this team has had issues with both lines for some time - they decided to address the defensive line by taking Orakpo - fact is the talent of offensive linemen and specifically tackles was felt at the time to not be the best way to go - the team also acquired DE Jarmon who looks like he could be a very good player also.

There were many here that wanted more done to help the offensive line but this was apparently not possible and while the team was hoping/praying for a lot of things to be a little better for another year, this did not happen. Actually nothing that they had hoped & prayed for on the offensive side has worked out


The short term and long term outlook remains the same - Snyder will most likely get rid of both Zorn and Cerrato but, unfortunately, if he continues to be as involved with the team as he has been, we know what to expect - I really hope he stops meddling and turns the team over to some NFL savvy guys but I think his ego is such that he will continue to try and get things back on track here - Snyder needs to let go and I do not think he will do that

You are correct.

But you could argue that the Offense needed A LOT more help than the Defense at the end of last year.

That's what baffling.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I'm assuming you met Zorn and I was strongly against it as well...all that said...you think Zorn should walk away and leave 4 mil on the table.

I love how Zorn has played this he has exposed and finally proven what we have all suspected and he's going to leave with Danyy's $$$$

I'm not sure what the first sentence means. As for walking away with the money, obviously I respect his right to do that, but you pay for everything one way or another. If he's willing to sell his respect for $4m, then I guess we've assigned a dollar value to Zorn's respect.

Sorry I in now way see it as him selling his self respect in fact I think it takes more chacter to do what Zorn is doing...to resign would allow Danny to spin it anyway he likes.

No apology required, you're perfectly entitled to that view. It's just mine that when you are a leader you should act like one. When you accept your boss treating you with disrepect to the degree Snyder did when he actually hired someone to call plays on game day, your (Zorn's) credibility as a leader is destroyed. Zorn had done nothing to that point. To quit was to acknowledge Danny had emasculated him as a leader. To continue was to accept emasculation. If he did it for money, fine. As I said it just put a price on him. Danny removed Zorn's respect, Zorn had done nothing until he accpeted it. When he continued he accepted it.

[KazooSkinsFan]

As for walking away with the money, obviously I respect his right to do that, but you pay for everything one way or another. If he's willing to sell his respect for $4m, then I guess we've assigned a dollar value to Zorn's respect.

Give me a break.

If you're going to get totally hosed by Snyder like this, the least you can do is stick him for $6 million dollars.

Depends on your priority. I've never found sticking it to someone a way that leads to happiness. Ironic that when Danny is accused of greed when Zorn takes being publicly wench slapped by his boss it's spun as sticking it to Danny. Based on your argument Zorn is greedy.

[DEHog]

I'm assuming you met Zorn and I was strongly against it as well...all that said...you think Zorn should walk away and leave 4 mil on the table.

I love how Zorn has played this he has exposed and finally proven what we have all suspected and he's going to leave with Danyy's $$$$

I'm not sure what the first sentence means. As for walking away with the money, obviously I respect his right to do that, but you pay for everything one way or another. If he's willing to sell his respect for $4m, then I guess we've assigned a dollar value to Zorn's respect.

Sorry I in now way see it as him selling his self respect in fact I think it takes more chacter to do what Zorn is doing...to resign would allow Danny to spin it anyway he likes.

No apology required, you're perfectly entitled to that view. It's just mine that when you are a leader you should act like one. When you accept your boss treating you with disrepect to the degree Snyder did when he actually hired someone to call plays on game day, your (Zorn's) credibility as a leader is destroyed. Zorn had done nothing to that point. To quit was to acknowledge Danny had emasculated him as a leader. To continue was to accept emasculation. If he did it for money, fine. As I said it just put a price on him. Danny removed Zorn's respect, Zorn had done nothing until he accpeted it. When he continued he accepted it.

To your point, didn't Zorn really do that when he signed his contract...agreeing to do whatever the owners tells him to do??

[SkinsJock]

... you could argue that the Offense needed A LOT more help than the Defense at the end of last year.

That's what baffling.

oh yes! I totally agree - there were some here that were really hoping we could somehow find a way to address the offensive issues but .... hindsight is always 20/20 and this managment group has just not managed the team very well, so, while I and some others here were prepared to accept that we would have to hope that we could get by for a year and hope the D made up for some offensive issues ... who could see this bad an offense?

we need better depth and we have a group in charge here that just keep bringing in more talent and we suffer because it does not make us a better team
we have no plan and, even worse, no people that would know how to implement a plan if there even was one

[KazooSkinsFan]

To your point, didn't Zorn really do that when he signed his contract...agreeing to do whatever the owners tells him to do??

Out of curiosity, is that what you think of all employees of all businesses, they are "agreeing to do whatever the owners tell" them to do? He's agreeing to wash Danny's car? To be insulted by him? Your comment seems to be in a vacuum, I have a hard time thinking you really believe that about employees in general.

When you are hired for a role, you should be agreeing to fill that role and your employer should be agreeing to treat you with professional courtesy and ethics and support your filling that role. Not publicly destroying your ability to perform the role you filled. And Zorn should have quit when it was done to him.

My criticism of Danny was that it's bad business because it undercuts the credibility of his coach. And of Zorn that his credibility was destroyed by his boss. I'd have had no issue with Danny calling Zorn into his office and telling him to hire Lewis and let him call the plays. When he hired Lewis directly, or through Cerrato, and did it publicly, Zorn was through as coach and should have quit. If he's staying for the money, fine. But he can't have it both ways. He can't sell his dignity and still have his dignity.

[KazooSkinsFan]

You do not get the greedy part. Let me tell you where it comes in: If Zorn resigns, he is not owed the money for the remaining part of his contract. So, Snyder would save several millions if Zorn resigns or is forced to rsign.

Zorn, on the other hand, may be a poor play caller but he certainly discovered, or was told by Largent or others, about this maneuver

Please. There are two explanations.

1) Zorn sucks at play calling. Snyder thinks that we could win if we called better plays but being a bad manager bungles how he does it.

2) Danny after spending 150 million or whatever he did this year wants to squeeze a buck and save 4 a year by not firing the HC. And BTW he doesn't save the 4 because Zorn doesn't quit.

All the facts support option 1. I now oppose Danny because the facts do support that he's an inept failure driven owner and I not only find it not necessary but counter productive to follow accurate accusations with contrived ones. Only a liberal could select option two after even you admitted Zorn sucks at play calling because that fits your greed agenda. I realize most of the world are sheep and fall for that liberal logic. But doesn't it embarrass you to use such sad logic to someone with a critical mind? Do you only care what the majority sheep who might read this think? I care not what the sheep think and only appreciate what critical minds think on the rare occasions I meet them.

[DEHog]

To your point, didn't Zorn really do that when he signed his contract...agreeing to do whatever the owners tells him to do??

Out of curiosity, is that what you think of all employees of all businesses, they are "agreeing to do whatever the owners tell" them to do? He's agreeing to wash Danny's car? To be insulted by him? Your comment seems to be in a vacuum, I have a hard time thinking you really believe that about employees in general.

When you are hired for a role, you should be agreeing to fill that role and your employer should be agreeing to treat you with professional courtesy and ethics and support your filling that role. Not publicly destroying your ability to perform the role you filled. And Zorn should have quit when it was done to him.

My criticism of Danny was that it's bad business because it undercuts the credibility of his coach. And of Zorn that his credibility was destroyed by his boss. I'd have had no issue with Danny calling Zorn into his office and telling him to hire Lewis and let him call the plays. When he hired Lewis directly, or through Cerrato, and did it publicly, Zorn was through as coach and should have quit. If he's staying for the money, fine. But he can't have it both ways. He can't sell his dignity and still have his dignity.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion...my point was he agreed to do what the owner said in reguards to footballl decisions...I.E. shouldn't the HC decide who calls plays??? Why would any coach agree to allow the owner to decide who plays, calls plays etc...

[SnyderSucks]

With all due respect to and shared misery with my fellow fans, I am compelled to take this opportunity to not so much defend D Snyder's actions but his rights.

I own a business myself and I cringe at this concept of demanding he "sell the team"....... He is the one who came up with $800 million to buy the team and anyone who does that, in my opinion, within whatever limitations exist contractually with the NFL has every right to do what he wants.

I also own a business, but don't agree with the statement about selling the team. First, it's not a stand alone business, but a partnership in the NFL. Partners can expell members if they want. Second, it's not a commodity like milk or carpet where if one business is providing poor service, you can just go next door and buy the exact same thing from a better business. There is no other store selling the "Redskins" team, and for those who want to go to games, the nearest cities that offer a similar product are potentially a much longer drive.

Third, and this is the most important, the team is essentially supported by the government, making it somewhat a public good. The government grants the NFL an antitrust exemption - without it they would not be able to operate as they do and would probably make a lot less money. The antitrust excemption means that the taxpayers have some input about the way the NFL is run. Like all other things supported by the government, your taxes support the Redskins whether you want to or not. I can't take my antitrust exemption away from them no matter what I do. I wish I had an antitrust exemption and could collude with other businesses to monopolize the market and charge above market rates.

[Redskin in Canada]

Only a liberal could select option two after even you admitted Zorn sucks at play calling because that fits your greed agenda.

It took you a while until the facts smacked you in the face to acknowledge your mistake vis-a-vis the Giants a couple od seasons ago.

It took you almost forever to acknowledge that Dan Snyder is a moron.

It will take you a bit longer to see the EGO and GREEDY side of Snyder. Somewhere down the road we will find a new thread in which you acknowledge the old news. Fine. Better late as usual rather than never.

Politics, whether it is cazyhorse or yourself at one or the other extreme of the political spectrum has nothing to do with this.

[SnyderSucks]

Only a liberal could select option two after even you admitted Zorn sucks at play calling because that fits your greed agenda.

You say "Only a liberal" like it's an insult. That's like calling Rush Limbaugh and calling him a conservative and expecting him to feel insulted.

It also implies that there is something inherently bad with being a liberal, and in reverse, something inherently good in being conservative, which is ridiculous. You need to have people on different sides of issues or you wind up either with no change or too rapid changes, or bad changes. I think someone on hear has the tagline "If everyone thinks the same thing, then no one is thinking" applies. If there were no conservatives, we might end up with anticarbon legislation that would criple business, and if there were no liberals we'd probably be at war with Iran, North Korea, and others.

[CanesSkins26]

There were many here that wanted more done to help the offensive line but this was apparently not possible and while the team was hoping/praying for a lot of things to be a little better for another year, this did not happen. Actually nothing that they had hoped & prayed for on the offensive side has worked out

How was it "apparently not possible?" Michael Oher, the 23rd pick overall, is currently the starting right tackle for the Ravens.