The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

QB in the first; with JC in the game, it wouldn't matter how good our OL is. OL in the second and fourth. After that point, best player available is generally the theme.

A safety would be the craziest pick. We need to focus on the problem, which is the offense.

Seriously? A safety??

If one of the top-shelf QB's is their in round one take the guy. You can draft three offensive lineman in the next three rounds (2, 4, and 5). Remember, their will be no salary cap so we can probably get a very good interior OL through free agency.

We won Super Bowls with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien.

Kyle Orton is QB for the best team in the NFL.

Draft linemen.

FireVinny wrote:We won Super Bowls with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien.

Kyle Orton is QB for the best team in the NFL.

Draft linemen.

Ok. Which linemen do you want to draft?

The OL in this year's draft other than Ok. State's Russell Okung don't carry as high of a draft grade as say Jake Locker, Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen or say Colt McCoy. This draft doesn't have a Jake Long. If one of these big time QB's is available take him. Look at how the Falcons, Jets, and Ravens have improved by taking a QB in round one in the past two seasons.

I agree that the draft is thin at O-Line, but if Williams or Okung are there I think you have to take one. If not, there's a lot of D-Line talent this year.

Tebow isn't the answer. I like Sam Bradford (if he comes out), but I don't like Colt McCoy.

Bradford, Clausen and Locker each have a year of eligibility left. Bradford will probably come out, unless he decides that his injury cost him a shot at the national championship. I think Clausen and Locker with stay in so they can be the top QB next year rather than 4th or 5th this year.

The Ravens and Falcons scored big on their QB picks because they have two of the best O-Lines in football.

FireVinny wrote:We won Super Bowls with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien.

Kyle Orton is QB for the best team in the NFL.

Draft linemen.

All three of the QBs you mentioned are better than Soup and Soup will be mmm, mmm, gone!

If Jon Gruden come here next season, mark it down we will take a QB in round 1.

Also, if you like Joe Flacco, you gotta like Tony Pike... who we can probably get in the 2nd.

FireVinny wrote:I agree that the draft is thin at O-Line, but if Williams or Okung are there I think you have to take one. If not, there's a lot of D-Line talent this year.

Tebow isn't the answer. I like Sam Bradford (if he comes out), but I don't like Colt McCoy.

I would rather have Bradford, Locker, McCoy, or Claussen over Okung. He is solid but he is better run blocking and struggles at times against speed rushers. He isn't on the level of a Jake Long. If a true franchise-type tackle was available it would make sense to draft that type of player. However, that player clearly isn't available in the upcoming draft.

FireVinny wrote:Bradford, Clausen and Locker each have a year of eligibility left. Bradford will probably come out, unless he decides that his injury cost him a shot at the national championship. I think Clausen and Locker with stay in so they can be the top QB next year rather than 4th or 5th this year.

The Ravens and Falcons scored big on their QB picks because they have two of the best O-Lines in football.

I disagree. Given what happened to Bradford with his injury, I think that Claussen and Locker are both likely to come out. In addition, Weis might be out at ND after this season and if that happens there is no way that Claussen stays.

FireVinny wrote:
The Ravens and Falcons scored big on their QB picks because they have two of the best O-Lines in football.

But no one would have said that before they got their QBs! IN 2007 Baltimore had a middle of the road running game and a horrendous passing game and Atlanta had a terrible run game and a not very good passing game. Six teams gave up more sacks than the 07 Falcons and only ten teams gave up more than the 07 Crows. In 08 only 4 teams were sacked less than the Ravens and the Falcons went from terrible to averagein pass pro and went from horrendous to #2 run game (Balt #4).

Did they completely revamp their OL? No! Sure they made some changes but the biggest change came at the QB spot!

A QB is just that important! Peyton Manning's sack% is always one the the best in the NFL and he has had changes to the OL and right now (and in 08) his OL can't run block to save their lives. You put Peyton behind our OL and our sacks drop dramatically. You put JC in Indy and he gets killed behind their line too.

Am I saying our OL problems are just created by JC's bad play at QB? No. but they are certainly made A LOT WORSE! Peyton wouldn't be sacked a third of the times JC is and we would be undefeated.

Actually... the reason they might all come out is to take advantage of the lack of rookie pay scale. I think that's silly, because I think the salary cap is dead for good, but they might do it anyway.

But seriously, you want to start a rookie QB with this O-line? That's murder!

FireVinny wrote:Actually... the reason they might all come out is to take advantage of the lack of rookie pay scale. I think that's silly, because I think the salary cap is dead for good, but they might do it anyway.

But seriously, you want to start a rookie QB with this O-line? That's murder!

Just because you draft a qb in the first round doesn't mean you can't address oline later in the draft. We should be able to draft olinemen in those rounds and there is also free agency, which is probably better since I don't trust Vinny's ability to draft offensive linemen.

FireVinny wrote:Actually... the reason they might all come out is to take advantage of the lack of rookie pay scale. I think that's silly, because I think the salary cap is dead for good, but they might do it anyway.

But seriously, you want to start a rookie QB with this O-line? That's murder!

Even if the cap goes away, there is still likely to be a wage scale. The likelihood of a lockout is another factor in players coming out early. Let's see, I can come out in 2010 and earn a couple million, or I can play a year for free, then get locked out in 2011, then come in for $500,000 in 2012? Not a tough decision.

In 2007, the Ravens had 3 members of their current line -- two were rookies and one was a second year player, and none were starters. Now they start 2 first rounders ('07 and '09), a second rounder ('06), a free agent pick-up (Birk) and a freak of nature supplemental draft pick (Gaither -- also drafted in '07).

The difference for the Falcons is smaller, but their left side, Baker and Bradshaw, are an '08 1st (that's who they got with the pick they traded us two 2nd rounders for) and an '07 2nd.

I'm not saying we don't need a QB... I'd just rather take a lineman in the first and Tony Pike in the 2nd (and pray that we sign Marcus McNeill).

FireVinny wrote:Also, if you like Joe Flacco, you gotta like Tony Pike... who we can probably get in the 2nd.

I've been talking Tony Pike for a while here, but QBs go notoriously quick in the draft. You can't count on a quality QB being around in the second round. And yes, I am aware of the exceptions including Tom Brady, BUT I am making this statement based on the fact that we have the WORST GM in football....

If the QB is first round quality. They will go in the first round. The QB position is drafted differently than any other position in football.

FireVinny wrote:In 2007, the Ravens had 3 members of their current line -- two were rookies and one was a second year player, and none were starters. Now they start 2 first rounders ('07 and '09), a second rounder ('06), a free agent pick-up (Birk) and a freak of nature supplemental draft pick (Gaither -- also drafted in '07).

The difference for the Falcons is smaller, but their left side, Baker and Bradshaw, are an '08 1st (that's who they got with the pick they traded us two 2nd rounders for) and an '07 2nd.

I'm not saying we don't need a QB... I'd just rather take a lineman in the first and Tony Pike in the 2nd (and pray that we sign Marcus McNeill).

So the Ravens added no one to there OL between 07 and 08. That is what you just said. No I'll grant you their young players got better, but the added no one.

But the Falcons added one player in 08 that wasn't on ther OL in 07.

If you are correct, neithe rOL was revamped between 07 and 08. The Falcon added one guy and the Ravens added no one.

Him what player did both teams change that dramatically impacted there OL? The QB!

See how it all works together.

Look, I'm going to admit that I don't understand what happened to the Falcons overnight last year that can't be attributed to the QB... but they at least had the courtesy to draft him a 1st round left tackle.

But you can't claim that the Ravens haven't completely revamped their line over two years. They had 2 first day draft picks move into their starting line-up in '08 and added another first rounder and a six-time all-pro this year. Last year they improved in their line play, but they were all run and not spectacular. This year their line has really come together.

Lets look at it the other way though -- what happens when you draft a first round QB and don't upgrade your o-line? Hello Matt Stafford, JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn.

FireVinny wrote:Look, I'm going to admit that I don't understand what happened to the Falcons overnight last year that can't be attributed to the QB... but they at least had the courtesy to draft him a 1st round left tackle.

But you can't claim that the Ravens haven't completely revamped their line over two years. They had 2 first day draft picks move into their starting line-up in '08 and added another first rounder and a six-time all-pro this year. Last year they improved in their line play, but they were all run and not spectacular. This year their line has really come together.

Lets look at it the other way though -- what happens when you draft a first round QB and don't upgrade your o-line? Hello Matt Stafford, JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn.

Russell and Quinn have problems that go far beyond their offensive lines.

Ah, splendid. It's NEVER too early to start a draft thread in Redskins Land! Lol. Let the offseason commence

CanesSkins26 wrote:Russell and Quinn have problems that go far beyond their offensive lines.

What, that they aren't very talented? Watch out for McCoy and Clausen, then... because they aren't either. Bradford is, but he's not getting past the St. Louis pick.

All I've seen of Locker was that USC game, which I have to admit was impressive. So maybe Locker makes sense if he slips to us (I'm assuming we'll be somewhere around the 10th pick at 5-11). I'm not yet sold, but I might be eventually. As of right now, I think Okung or Williams makes more sense at 10 if they're there, or maybe Greg Hardy if they aren't.

FireVinny wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Russell and Quinn have problems that go far beyond their offensive lines.

What, that they aren't very talented? Watch out for McCoy and Clausen, then... because they aren't either. Bradford is, but he's not getting past the St. Louis pick.

All I've seen of Locker was that USC game, which I have to admit was impressive. So maybe Locker makes sense if he slips to us (I'm assuming we'll be somewhere around the 10th pick at 5-11). I'm not yet sold, but I might be eventually. As of right now, I think Okung or Williams makes more sense at 10 if they're there, or maybe Greg Hardy if they aren't.

I agree with you in that Clausen is not a good pick. I am not sure about McCoy. There have been mixed reviews about him, but I don't see a glaring deficiency in his game. But regardless, there are Locker, Bradford, Pike, Snead (which I am not high on after watching a couple of his games), and LeFevour that would be solid picks --- except for Snead who I don't generally like because he tends to make a lot of mistakes.

All in all, I think that we will be in the 6-7 range of the draft behind STL, OAK, DET, CLE, KC, TBAY. Out of those teams, only STL and potentially CLE are looking for a QB. OAK has invested in Russell, DET in Stafford, KC is Cassell, TBAY in Freeman. CLE may even say that they have invested in Quinn. So, who knows, maybe we will be behind only STL in the draft for a QB. Now, that doesn't count for trade ups, but it places us in a good position to draft a quality QB.

There are quality OL in the second round. Jansen was a second round pick and we are learning now what a mistake it was to cut him. I still shake my head at the way we treated a true blood redskin.