The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:22 pm**

Schottenheimer spent 1 season here, because Steve Spurrier wasn't ready to commit to being an NFL coach.

If I recall a majority of fans were supportive of Snyder's subsequent firing & then hiring of both men.

And that was a disaster.

Snyder signs the paychecks folks. Do you think he would have overruled Joe Gibbs' decision to go after Brandon Lloyd and hire Al Saunders?

No way.

Snyder still giggles like a schoolgirl when speaking about Joe.

In hindsight everybody's vision is 20-20.

I read something telling about the organization in the WP yesterday about how we seem to go after players that don't fit the system we have in place.

If Greg Blache prefers to have "a disciplined, by-the-numbers style") than why did we sign Haynesworth for so much money?

AH marches to his own drum... needs a breather every now & again.

He picks his angles while in pursuit of the QB. He has never been a pocket pass rusher.

This organization on all levels is making the game harder than it needs to be.

Penalties, poor execution, bad play calling has definitely increased the miserable atmosphere around the DC area.

I challenge the Skins' to start playing with some pride.

If you don't love what you are doing, take a seat and let someone else get the chance to be a hero.

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:18 pm**

Gametime33 wrote:I read something telling about the organization in the WP yesterday about how we seem to go after players that don't fit the system we have in place.

That's a creation of the constant turnover -- "Norv guys" trying to play for Marty, Marty guys trying to play for OBC, OBC guys trying to play for Gibbs, etc.

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:22 pm**

RedskinsFreak wrote:
Gametime33 wrote:I read something telling about the organization in the WP yesterday about how we seem to go after players that don't fit the system we have in place.

That's a creation of the constant turnover -- "Norv guys" trying to play for Marty, Marty guys trying to play for OBC, OBC guys trying to play for Gibbs, etc.

Sounds like a system, to me... :wink:

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:38 pm**

The Lions are who we thought they were.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_N1OjGhIFc

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:17 am**

RayNAustin wrote:
grampi wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:Next up was Marty Schottenheimer, who actually made a plan to build the team. His idea was to get rid of the high priced veterans and build through the draft. He was fired after ONE season. Do you know what Marty did next? He built the Chargers into a powerhouse!!! He had like 5 excellent drafts in a row!

This is the problem with Dan Snyder. He believes he can build a winning team by acquiring a bunch of high priced players instead of doing it the right way (like all other good teams do it) by building through the draft. This mindset of his has been proven not to work for over a decade now and you'd think he'd get the message, but he never does. This team will be nothing more than a scum-sucking basement dweller until we get a new owner. SNYDER NEEDS TO GO!!!!!!

He's not going anywhere. So why even discuss it? He owns the frickin team.

I would normally agree with the building through the draft philosophy IF there was any reason to believe the Redskins could actually draft players of high calibre consistently.

Look ... we had 2 #1 picks in 2005 ... we used them on Campbell and Rogers, who in my opinion are barely worth a 2nd for both of them, and it set back this team for the past 4 years.

Kelly and Thomas last year? Thomas looks to be a complete bust, and Kelly isn't likely to remain healthy if he even starts performing at a respectable level.

How can you build a team by spending 2 #1's, and 3 #2's on Campbell, Rogers, Kelly and Thomas?

Snyder's not going anywhere until his poor decisions start hitting him where it hurts him....in his wallet! If fans stop going to the games as a sign of protest, we could get rid of him.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:09 am**

grampi wrote:Snyder's not going anywhere until his poor decisions start hitting him where it hurts him....in his wallet! If fans stop going to the games as a sign of protest, we could get rid of him.

Oh! Not that easy grampi.

Snyder is a MASTER of re-packaging and marketing. MARK these words:

All the Danno needs to do is:

1. Get a BIG name Head Coach to come here. (Hey! Shanahan, Five mil a year good enough for ya? )

and

2. Sign a QB with some potential (the bigger the name, the better, Brett for zillionth retirement return anybody? )

You will witness a HUGE STAMPEDE of naive and "hope is eternal" fans going back to FedEx, watching on TV, Cheering their lungs out and swearing that Dan Snyder may not be perfect but ... he is a fan, he is learning, he loves the team, and he spends whatever money is needed to succeed ... :shock:

Surprise, surprise, ... IT WILL WORK every time the same way snake oil, kool aid and lollipops do.

Yep. We ARE as fans who we thought WE are.

Give most of the guys a win on Sunday against the Bucs and they will begin to have expectations. ROTFALMAO

You will begin to see statements like

" ... the team is on the right track ... "

" ... Zorn has changed, he is now instilling discipline and calling the right plays ... "

" ... I always knew Jason was the solution ... "

Never mind that NOTHING would have changed in substance. We still have an awful OL, anemic offense, poor execution on defense, poor discipline from the HC, bad play calliing, no depth, etc ... It does NOT matter !!!

If the Romans could be fed panem et circenses (bread and circus) WHY would we Skins want anything else but more of the same ??? OK, I concede: no bread but what a circus !!! (no referneces to Bozos or clowns please, SkinsJock) :wink:

We would have to have convictions and a firm determination to DENOUNCE and make ACCOUNTABLE the owner for running this racket as a fraud operation or money laundering cartel.

Let's face it guys. He knows we are loyal and until he manages to destroy the fan base and the corporate owners of club seats see as a liability such investments, we are doomed.

The Washington Redskins are the MAIN source of revenue for Dan Snyder. The Team subsidizes other of his money losing operations. EVEN if he wanted to get rid of the Team, he COULD NOT. It is his only ticket to some kind of financial stability. My 2 cents

BUT We can start a campaign for him to hire a competent GM and give up control or ...

we will continue to ridicule him every time we can in every appearance, in every forum, in the media, everywhere. He resents ridicule almost as much as his financial losses. :twisted:

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:19 pm**

I choose panic!!!! AAAAHHHH!!!!!!!

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:49 pm**

2. Sign a QB with some potential (the bigger the name, the better, Brett for zillionth retirement return anybody? )

If Favre wears burgundy and gold, I will boycott the skins that year.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:23 pm**

grampi wrote:
Snyder's not going anywhere until his poor decisions start hitting him where it hurts him....in his wallet! If fans stop going to the games as a sign of protest, we could get rid of him.

Translation: He ain't going anywhere. And if that actually happened, all that would result is for them to move to another city. But the Redskin faithful will not abandon the team, nor do I think they should.

Better that we all pray and hope that mathematics comes into the picture in another form ... that the statistical odds suggest that given enough time and money, Snyder eventually will stumble upon a winning combination of players and coaches.

And let's keep in mind something here ... Gibbs did not turn this ship around. He was behind the draft choices like Rogers and Campbell, and trading picks for players that were never used like TJ Ducket, and letting Pierce go, and Harris go etc. I don't think you can blame these types of errors on Snyder.

Snyder did, in essence admit he needed help by convincing Gibbs to return. He thought he could recreate the magic of old with Joe Gibbs. Unfortunately, Snyder, like so many others still believe that it was Gibbs 1 who engineered the Redskins way back. Not so. Gibbs coached a team that was primarily built by Bobby Beathard. And absent of Beathard's genius at finding huge talent in late round draft picks, Joe Gibbs may never have gotten any closer to a Lombardi trophy than did Norvel Turner.

Not bashing Gibbs here at all ... he was a great coach. But you have to have great players ... and you have to be able to find those great players not just in the early rounds but in the late rounds too. And with Free Agency (something Beathard didn't have to contend with back then) you now have to find great players on the cheap ... and you have to continue finding them year in and year out. Not many guys around that can do that ... the Bobby Beathard's of the world are few and far between.

But you absolutely must hit on your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders. You screw these up and it will set you back for 2-3 years. So, just saying we need a GM is not the complete answer. And contrary to many opinions here ... you cannot afford to wet-nurse a player (QB) for several years ... like we're coddled Jason Campbell for way too long, while other teams have snatched QBs off the college field and put them on the NFL field immediately, with success.

When it comes to offensive talent, you absolutely need a top rate QB first. Then you build your offense around him. And you do it with a combination of early and late picks.

The Redskins, unfortunately, haven't been all that great with the early picks ... and that was Gibbs ... not Snyder.

Just going back to 2004 thru 2007, engineered by Gibbs, there were as many poor personnel decisions as there were good ones, leaving the team in a net/net stand still, which you can prove simply by the team's overall record.

And the Redskins, like everyone else, need a little bit of good fortune in the draft. No matter how careful, or how conventional your draft wisdom is ... there is an element of luck involved. Just ask the Browns ... they've decided to go back to Anderson (6th rounder) and sit Brady Quinn (1st rounder).

If you're lucky, you pick Jay Cutler with the 11th overall pick, instead of Young (3rd) or Leinart (10th). And you pick Brandon Marshall with a 4th round pick Denver got from the Skins ...

In 2005 we get Carlos Rogers (9th) and the Cowboys get Demarcus Ware (11th) and the Chargers get Shawne Merriman (12th).

It gets uglier ... we pick Manual White (FB) in the 4th rd, while Cowboys pick Marion Barber and the Giants pick Brandon Jacobs.

In the 5th round we pick Robert McCune and in the 6th Jared Newberry, while Derrick Anderson was picked in the 6th (who in my opinion is better than Campbell that cost a 1st and a 2nd.)

This was all Gibbs ... not Snyder. Can you imagine what would have been had we taken Merriman or Ware instead of Rogers ...?

We picked Landry 6th overall in 2007, and Adrian Peterson was picked 7th. I'm sorry, as good as Landry might be, I'd take AP.

But 2008 .... we have 3 2nd round picks ... we take Thomas, Kelly and Davis .... Eagles take DesSean Jackson, Dallas takes Martellus Bennett, and NYG take Manningham in the 3rd round.

Year after year, it's the same story. 2004 - 2007 it was Gibbs ... now it's Cerrato/Snyder/Zorn. I don't see any major difference in results.

The 2008 draft was mediocre bordering on a bust, trading out of the 1st round and picking Kelly, Thomas and Davis in the 2nd. Could have traded up, with Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco available. The exceptions, depending on how Rinehart works out are him, and Horton (steal in the 6th) and Brennan who will not likely ever get a chance in this dysfunctional organization.

Early picks were not very good ... but we (miraculously) picked up good talent in the late rounds this time. Overall though ... we blew it with the 3 2nd round picks.

Each time you blow 1st and 2nd round picks, you back yourself up so far ... you eventually wind up losing to the Lions, and continue mistaking Jason Campbell for a QB.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:08 pm**

I hate to agree on everything someone says, especially on such a long post but you are pretty damn close. The best qb we've had the last 20 yrs was picked in the 6th rd-Mark Rypien.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:31 pm**

collins1 wrote:I hate to agree on everything someone says, especially on such a long post but you are pretty damn close. The best qb we've had the last 20 yrs was picked in the 6th rd-Mark Rypien.

No worries ... stick around long enough and you'll learn to disagree with most of what I say, like everyone else. :lol:

Welcome!

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:56 pm**

Yes, Mark Rypien is a great example. On the surface, Jason Campbell is a far better athlete ... but Rypien, as clumsy as he could be at times was extremely good at dissecting defenses, and he had a great long ball. If there was a receiver open, Rypien would almost always make the play. He rarely missed.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:09 pm**

I'm here in NC. Maybe some of you guys up around DC can stir up a reporter that can actually have the youknowwhats to ask Zorn if he would ever be willing to swallow his pride and put in another qb.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:15 pm**

RAY lets not insult Rypien with JC comparsions...lol

Rypien had one of the greatest years ever by a QB in 1991...His deep ball in 1991 was only rivaled by Warners 1999 deep ball.....He was that good

Campbell is a bottom 5 qb in td prroduction once crossing the 50

Ironically if people remember correctly..IN 1993 when Gibbs left PETTIBON instituted a WEST COAST OFFENSE with Rod Dowhower as the OC
horrific idea

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:26 pm**

MEZZSKIN wrote:RAY lets not insult Rypien with JC comparsions...lol

Rypien had one of the greatest years ever by a QB in 1991...His deep ball in 1991 was only rivaled by Warners 1999 deep ball.....He was that good

Campbell is a bottom 5 qb in td prroduction once crossing the 50

Ironically if people remember correctly..IN 1993 when Gibbs left PETTIBON instituted a WEST COAST OFFENSE with Rod Dowhower as the OC
horrific idea

It's one of those ... this what a good QB looks like ... and what a bad one looks like comparisons.

Everyone talks about potential, and completion % (as if 65 % is some kind of super hero accomplishment when you throw 4 yard passes), but blame the lack of points on everything but the QB.

Campbell gets those yards and completions ALL BY HIMSELF, but when it comes time to score, nobody catches, nobody blocks, nobody runs and nobody calls decent plays.

It's a conspiracy to make Jason look bad I tell ya. That's it, it's a conspiracy. They don't want Jason to score points, so Portis just falls down, and Sellers drops passes, and nobody will let Jason's inner dragon out of the cage!!!

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:59 am**

RayNAustin wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:Don't press the panic button? Are you kidding me?

NOW you're talking my language, BAM, I'm with you!

Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, hysteriaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Now let's run in circles grabbing our head and screaming like our hair's on fire until we get tired.

Panic, Panic, PANIC!!!

I'm going to stop now, I'm hyperventilating. How are you doing, Ray?

Zzzzzzz

Plumb tuckered yourself out did you there, big guy? I told you that you needed to train more in pre-season. You can't hit the ground running in game 1 in full hysteria mode without proper preparation. It's just week 3 and you're already worn out. It's a long season, my friend, and a lot of panic left to go.

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:29 pm**

RayNAustin wrote:
grampi wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:Next up was Marty Schottenheimer, who actually made a plan to build the team. His idea was to get rid of the high priced veterans and build through the draft. He was fired after ONE season. Do you know what Marty did next? He built the Chargers into a powerhouse!!! He had like 5 excellent drafts in a row!

This is the problem with Dan Snyder. He believes he can build a winning team by acquiring a bunch of high priced players instead of doing it the right way (like all other good teams do it) by building through the draft. This mindset of his has been proven not to work for over a decade now and you'd think he'd get the message, but he never does. This team will be nothing more than a scum-sucking basement dweller until we get a new owner. SNYDER NEEDS TO GO!!!!!!

He's not going anywhere. So why even discuss it? He owns the frickin team.

I would normally agree with the building through the draft philosophy IF there was any reason to believe the Redskins could actually draft players of high calibre consistently.

Look ... we had 2 #1 picks in 2005 ... we used them on Campbell and Rogers, who in my opinion are barely worth a 2nd for both of them, and it set back this team for the past 4 years.

Kelly and Thomas last year? Thomas looks to be a complete bust, and Kelly isn't likely to remain healthy if he even starts performing at a respectable level.

How can you build a team by spending 2 #1's, and 3 #2's on Campbell, Rogers, Kelly and Thomas?

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:36 pm**

cleg wrote:Cut the kid a break. Read his first sentence that he has been a fan since Heath Shuler was drafted. This poor soul has never seen the Redskins as a winner in his approximate 20 years on the planet. Don't kill off his youthfull optimism, misguided as it may be. We should all gather round this young man and support him.

Optimism and skins fandom shall never coexist as long as Snyder owns the team. We will be made to pay for the first Gibbs tenure with this hellish ownership regime.

The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Panic if you want, but....

With Snyders butt buddy Cerato doing the drafting, I guess s

Re: cut the kid a break