I think Portis may be done

[mastdark81]

No RB, not ONE, can succeed when it is COMPLETELY predictable that you will run and when he does, he will run to the left because that is the ONLY place the coach "thinks" he can run.

Not only predictable in terms of a run play but even the direction of the play with a STACKED box of 8 defensive players. CP is a GREAT RB but come on, he is no superman.

How "little things" like a dysfunctional OL and no depth in it can hurt you eh?

I agree with this. I also agree that Clinton has lost a step and not as consistent to get up for games any longer. Never been a stickler for him not being able to hit a home run. I feel alot of that is just the other 10 guys blocking as well as Clinton not looking for it because...

Think about it, the majority of the time when you hit a hole and the guy is right there you will conform to getting lower and trying to get as much as yards as you can get. Clinton has a lot of practice with this and not use to holes and just darting through them lol. I haven't seen big holes consistently with our running game since the Dockery left the first time. When you have a line that can open and spread lanes you'll have more of an urgency to look for the home run. Right now he's just bracing to get what he can get.

But yes he's lost a step even so, and that is normal with the amount of carries he's had. What the coaching staff have to do is find a way to effectively use Clinton as well as the other backs to the best of their ability and they are not. We have no creativity with our running game. Look at other teams, when is the last time you seen a pitch or a fb dive or a fake fb handoff to the rb...no finesse at all. No runs hardly to the right. I gotta believe about 90% of our runs has been to the left or the middle.

[oneman56]

I love CP and still think he's a very productive RB. My biggest issue with him is that he seems to have terrible balance, he's always falling down or running into the backs of blockers. I agree with the above post form PulpExposure in that he's not worth the money he's paid by the Skins' but I disagree that he's done. He's just not what we want him to be anymore.

[skinsfan#33]

Portis is an elite back you cant expect him to get 50 yard runs when he doesnt touch the ball enough to establish himself by making those plays.

He can make DBs miss and Zorn should take the credit of Portis not getting done what he should be getting done. Are you guys forgetting through the first half of the season last year he would have been an MVP candidate I think ended top 5 in rushing and made the pro bowl.

He is an elite back I do not understand what you guys do not see in him.

If he can make DBs miss then why hasn't he in the five+ years with Skins. If you went back and looked at every play were he made a DB miss in the open field you wouldn't run out of fingers on one hand.

[Mursilis]

PulpExposure just plain nailed it with a well-reasoned, well-written post.
Good one, thanks!

Portis has unfortunately become the symbol of the 'skins, and why they remain in mediocrity - this team pays elite money for merely good performances.

[PulpExposure]

Not to totally pile on the guy, but the Post has an article about how Portis felt his time is coming.

"It's only a matter of time before I have a 200-yard game," Portis said. "It's only a matter of time before I have a 150-yard game. It's only a matter of time before I get two or three touchdowns. It's just the fact, when's it coming? I know it's coming. But when?"

Really? A 200 yard game?

The last time he had a 200 yard game was in 2003 for Denver.

How about a 150 yard game?

In his entire career as a Redskin, some 6 years and 74 games worth, he's had a grand total of THREE 150 yard games.

Maybe it is just a matter of time...because 200 and 150 yard games have been few and infrequent for him so far. Or, it may just be possible that the dude thinks he's better than he actually is...

[UK Skins Fan]

I think he does think he's better than he is. Unfortunately, so does Vinny, and so does Dan. To be fair, he's been a solid player for the Redskins, and may well take some team records with him when he's done, but he just hasn't been the player that he's been paid to be. I think part of that is the way he's been used, and part is the lack of stability around him. But mainly, it's about him being overpaid at a position that a good organisation doesn't need to overpay for.

[skins2357]

next yrs 1st rounder might need to be a RB

[skinsfan#33]

next yrs 1st rounder might need to be a RB

I wouldn't take a RB in the first round! Our first round pick should be the best player available between QB and OT, 2nd round - C or OG, 3rd - DE - (oops rthey already picked him), best available after that.

You can pick up a RB at the Quicky Mart if the OL is good in front of him and if not even Purple Jesus isn't going anywhere. Also, another thing that makes for a good running game is a good deep passing game - hence we need a QB.

[crazyhorse1]

CP is having issues mainly because of the defenses he plays against --- most (and by most, I mean all) Ds put 8 in the box against our offense. It kills the running game. The inabiilty of JC to throw 20+ pass plays has ABSOLUTELY KILLED our running game. It also doesn't hurt that defenses know that we can only run to one side.

And I may be wrong but didn't the OL have to make adjustments to the passing protection that had an effect on the running game? I believe I heard vetskin say that.

Campbell's one of the most accurate passers in the league from ten to twenty five yards. How long are we going to have to put it with these absurd assertions, invented to support a bias. Also, nobody puts eight in the box when the skins spread two receivers, ey's on the field, and there's the possibily of another receiver-- that's the look we are consistently showing when not in the redzone. We see eight in the box in the redzone and on sort yardage situations, when everyone in America knows Zorn is going to run Portis.

[markshark84]

CP is having issues mainly because of the defenses he plays against --- most (and by most, I mean all) Ds put 8 in the box against our offense. It kills the running game. The inabiilty of JC to throw 20+ pass plays has ABSOLUTELY KILLED our running game. It also doesn't hurt that defenses know that we can only run to one side.

And I may be wrong but didn't the OL have to make adjustments to the passing protection that had an effect on the running game? I believe I heard vetskin say that.

Campbell's one of the most accurate passers in the league from ten to twenty five yards. How long are we going to have to put it with these absurd assertions, invented to support a bias. Also, nobody puts eight in the box when the skins spread two receivers, ey's on the field, and there's the possibily of another receiver-- that's the look we are consistently showing when not in the redzone. We see eight in the box in the redzone and on sort yardage situations, when everyone in America knows Zorn is going to run Portis.

Crazy,
The 8 in the box defense is obvious after watching a couple games or perhaps a post game analysis. The 8 in the box thing has been a consistent defensive front this team has seen since the 7th week of 2008. I began to notice it after week 9 of 2008 and have been paying very close attention to it ever since. I would say that on average 8 are in the box on 70-80% of the defensive plays. Also, in your scenario: when you have 2 split receivers and a TE --- that is a perfect time to stack 8 against an offense like the skins -- perfect. Your safeties will cheat up on the TE, while providing support to the corners on quick inside slants. If the unexpected 2nd TE goes out for a pass, you either have a direct shot at the QB or the QB will throw it to one of the TEs (sound familar) and the safety will pick them up for a marginal gain. A time where you wouldn't see 8 would be where a slot receiver enters the game and either the defense has to go into a nickel package. But even then, some NFL defenses against the skins have stayed in their 4-3, had a safety cheat up (or OLB) and brought in the remaining LBs. Trust me, I could go on and on about this......for days.

And saying that JC is "one of the most accurate passers in the league" from 10-25 is certifiably insane. The statements you make are so definative, yet you provide ZERO basis for them. Off the top of my head, Peyton, Brees, Warner, Roethlesberger, Pennington, Ryan, Eli Manning, Cutler, Brady, and Sanchez are all more accurate.

[crazyhorse1]

When playing the lions, even if they know a run is coming, there should still be enough of a push to create a yard. That said

Teams do stack the box because they know there is nothing in the pass game that is consistent enough to put up a ton of points.

They know that

- They can single cover all receivers other than Moss, sometimes you can single cover him (corey webster)

- Campbell misses a lot of deep balls and there are no great (meaning great speed, great adjustments, great hands, great routes, i.e. Jennings, CJ, FItz.) downfield WR's on the team.


-They know that on at least one play out of three they will get extreme pressure on Campbell.

-They know that Moss drops passes or doesn't make tough catches most of the time.

-They know dumb plays and routes short of the first down marker will be run.

So why not stack the box? Like Ray said, spread it out, especially in the end zone. that will free up some space for portis, and possibly get someone open. Campbell is under pressure every play anyway and has done pretty good lately at avoiding sacks.

I agree with most of your points, but disagree on a couple. They stack the box because Zorn wants to run the ball in the end zone and won't quit trying it. Period. This year, I see very little evidence that Campbell can't pass in the end zone, none actually. Also, I don't know whether or not Campbell can throw the long ball-- either his receivers are covered and he overthrows out of caution or the DL is in his face. The successful long ball is usually a product of blown coverage or a receiver beating somebody, or somebody making a fantastic catch, or great pass protection-- that goes for every team in the league. I haven't seen the necessary factors that allow the long ball to be present for the skins. Only a blown coverage has shown up so far. Maybe I missed a bad pass or two when other things were right. Maybe it hasn't happened. Help me out.

[markshark84]

When playing the lions, even if they know a run is coming, there should still be enough of a push to create a yard. That said

Teams do stack the box because they know there is nothing in the pass game that is consistent enough to put up a ton of points.

They know that

- They can single cover all receivers other than Moss, sometimes you can single cover him (corey webster)

- Campbell misses a lot of deep balls and there are no great (meaning great speed, great adjustments, great hands, great routes, i.e. Jennings, CJ, FItz.) downfield WR's on the team.


-They know that on at least one play out of three they will get extreme pressure on Campbell.

-They know that Moss drops passes or doesn't make tough catches most of the time.

-They know dumb plays and routes short of the first down marker will be run.

So why not stack the box? Like Ray said, spread it out, especially in the end zone. that will free up some space for portis, and possibly get someone open. Campbell is under pressure every play anyway and has done pretty good lately at avoiding sacks.

I agree with most of your points, but disagree on a couple. They stack the box because Zorn wants to run the ball in the end zone and won't quit trying it. Period. This year, I see very little evidence that Campbell can't pass in the end zone, none actually. Also, I don't know whether or not Campbell can throw the long ball-- either his receivers are covered and he overthrows out of caution or the DL is in his face. The successful long ball is usually a product of blown coverage or a receiver beating somebody, or somebody making a fantastic catch, or great pass protection-- that goes for every team in the league. I haven't seen the necessary factors that allow the long ball to be present for the skins. Only a blown coverage has shown up so far. Maybe I missed a bad pass or two when other things were right. Maybe it hasn't happened. Help me out.

Here you go, (and this was only in ONE QUARTER):

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=301745

[crazyhorse1]

I was thinking this yesterday. I don't know if it's that he isn't getting blocking or what, but he looks slow. He cant break tackles anymore and he looks used up to me. Nothing against CP, but a back only has so long in this league. He does not appear to have 'it' anymore. Sorry CP, love ya man...

It's mostly the OL. Portis is nearing decline but not there noticably yet, to me. I do think he'll be done by the tenth game. He looks to me like his enthusiam is gone, however. I notice the Skin players never criticize the the OL or only mention stuff about "execution." There's no bitterness.

I think there's no bitterness because the whole team knows that the OL is hopelessly outclassed and knows that nothing can be done about it. This could be one of the worse OL's in Skin history. The best player on in is a slipping vet who used to be a star. The next best plays beside him and is only an average player. The others should not be in an NFL starting lineup. Casey's now even eratic with his hikes.

[crazyhorse1]

CP is having issues mainly because of the defenses he plays against --- most (and by most, I mean all) Ds put 8 in the box against our offense. It kills the running game. The inabiilty of JC to throw 20+ pass plays has ABSOLUTELY KILLED our running game. It also doesn't hurt that defenses know that we can only run to one side.

And I may be wrong but didn't the OL have to make adjustments to the passing protection that had an effect on the running game? I believe I heard vetskin say that.

Campbell's one of the most accurate passers in the league from ten to twenty five yards. How long are we going to have to put it with these absurd assertions, invented to support a bias. Also, nobody puts eight in the box when the skins spread two receivers, ey's on the field, and there's the possibily of another receiver-- that's the look we are consistently showing when not in the redzone. We see eight in the box in the redzone and on sort yardage situations, when everyone in America knows Zorn is going to run Portis.

Crazy,
The 8 in the box defense is obvious after watching a couple games or perhaps a post game analysis. The 8 in the box thing has been a consistent defensive front this team has seen since the 7th week of 2008. I began to notice it after week 9 of 2008 and have been paying very close attention to it ever since. I would say that on average 8 are in the box on 70-80% of the defensive plays. Also, in your scenario: when you have 2 split receivers and a TE --- that is a perfect time to stack 8 against an offense like the skins -- perfect. Your safeties will cheat up on the TE, while providing support to the corners on quick inside slants. If the unexpected 2nd TE goes out for a pass, you either have a direct shot at the QB or the QB will throw it to one of the TEs (sound familar) and the safety will pick them up for a marginal gain. A time where you wouldn't see 8 would be where a slot receiver enters the game and either the defense has to go into a nickel package. But even then, some NFL defenses against the skins have stayed in their 4-3, had a safety cheat up (or OLB) and brought in the remaining LBs. Trust me, I could go on and on about this......for days.

And saying that JC is "one of the most accurate passers in the league" from 10-25 is certifiably insane. The statements you make are so definative, yet you provide ZERO basis for them. Off the top of my head, Peyton, Brees, Warner, Roethlesberger, Pennington, Ryan, Eli Manning, Cutler, Brady, and Sanchez are all more accurate.

I concede the eight in the box point. You apparently have been more observant than I have in this matter. Thanks.

[crazyhorse1]

CP is having issues mainly because of the defenses he plays against --- most (and by most, I mean all) Ds put 8 in the box against our offense. It kills the running game. The inabiilty of JC to throw 20+ pass plays has ABSOLUTELY KILLED our running game. It also doesn't hurt that defenses know that we can only run to one side.

And I may be wrong but didn't the OL have to make adjustments to the passing protection that had an effect on the running game? I believe I heard vetskin say that.

Campbell's one of the most accurate passers in the league from ten to twenty five yards. How long are we going to have to put it with these absurd assertions, invented to support a bias. Also, nobody puts eight in the box when the skins spread two receivers, ey's on the field, and there's the possibily of another receiver-- that's the look we are consistently showing when not in the redzone. We see eight in the box in the redzone and on sort yardage situations, when everyone in America knows Zorn is going to run Portis.

Crazy,
The 8 in the box defense is obvious after watching a couple games or perhaps a post game analysis. The 8 in the box thing has been a consistent defensive front this team has seen since the 7th week of 2008. I began to notice it after week 9 of 2008 and have been paying very close attention to it ever since. I would say that on average 8 are in the box on 70-80% of the defensive plays. Also, in your scenario: when you have 2 split receivers and a TE --- that is a perfect time to stack 8 against an offense like the skins -- perfect. Your safeties will cheat up on the TE, while providing support to the corners on quick inside slants. If the unexpected 2nd TE goes out for a pass, you either have a direct shot at the QB or the QB will throw it to one of the TEs (sound familar) and the safety will pick them up for a marginal gain. A time where you wouldn't see 8 would be where a slot receiver enters the game and either the defense has to go into a nickel package. But even then, some NFL defenses against the skins have stayed in their 4-3, had a safety cheat up (or OLB) and brought in the remaining LBs. Trust me, I could go on and on about this......for days.

And saying that JC is "one of the most accurate passers in the league" from 10-25 is certifiably insane. The statements you make are so definative, yet you provide ZERO basis for them. Off the top of my head, Peyton, Brees, Warner, Roethlesberger, Pennington, Ryan, Eli Manning, Cutler, Brady, and Sanchez are all more accurate.

I concede the eight in the box point. You apparently have been more observant than I have in this matter. Thanks.

[crazyhorse1]

CP is having issues mainly because of the defenses he plays against --- most (and by most, I mean all) Ds put 8 in the box against our offense. It kills the running game. The inabiilty of JC to throw 20+ pass plays has ABSOLUTELY KILLED our running game. It also doesn't hurt that defenses know that we can only run to one side.

And I may be wrong but didn't the OL have to make adjustments to the passing protection that had an effect on the running game? I believe I heard vetskin say that.

Campbell's one of the most accurate passers in the league from ten to twenty five yards. How long are we going to have to put it with these absurd assertions, invented to support a bias. Also, nobody puts eight in the box when the skins spread two receivers, ey's on the field, and there's the possibily of another receiver-- that's the look we are consistently showing when not in the redzone. We see eight in the box in the redzone and on sort yardage situations, when everyone in America knows Zorn is going to run Portis.

Crazy,
The 8 in the box defense is obvious after watching a couple games or perhaps a post game analysis. The 8 in the box thing has been a consistent defensive front this team has seen since the 7th week of 2008. I began to notice it after week 9 of 2008 and have been paying very close attention to it ever since. I would say that on average 8 are in the box on 70-80% of the defensive plays. Also, in your scenario: when you have 2 split receivers and a TE --- that is a perfect time to stack 8 against an offense like the skins -- perfect. Your safeties will cheat up on the TE, while providing support to the corners on quick inside slants. If the unexpected 2nd TE goes out for a pass, you either have a direct shot at the QB or the QB will throw it to one of the TEs (sound familar) and the safety will pick them up for a marginal gain. A time where you wouldn't see 8 would be where a slot receiver enters the game and either the defense has to go into a nickel package. But even then, some NFL defenses against the skins have stayed in their 4-3, had a safety cheat up (or OLB) and brought in the remaining LBs. Trust me, I could go on and on about this......for days.

And saying that JC is "one of the most accurate passers in the league" from 10-25 is certifiably insane. The statements you make are so definative, yet you provide ZERO basis for them. Off the top of my head, Peyton, Brees, Warner, Roethlesberger, Pennington, Ryan, Eli Manning, Cutler, Brady, and Sanchez are all more accurate.

I concede the eight in the box point. You apparently have been more observant than I have in this matter. Thanks.

[markshark84]

CP is having issues mainly because of the defenses he plays against --- most (and by most, I mean all) Ds put 8 in the box against our offense. It kills the running game. The inabiilty of JC to throw 20+ pass plays has ABSOLUTELY KILLED our running game. It also doesn't hurt that defenses know that we can only run to one side.

And I may be wrong but didn't the OL have to make adjustments to the passing protection that had an effect on the running game? I believe I heard vetskin say that.

How long are we going to have to put it with these absurd assertions, invented to support a bias.

Bias? No. I loved JC in the first half of last season, before he crumbled. JC is my favorite starting QB in the NFL, because he is a skin -- plain and simple.

The only thing I have a problem with is either bad or underperforming players on the skins. And JC fits into that category. It's not a bias, it is a frustration with his inability to perform at the level he doesn't appear capable of.

If he plays well, I will say so. Trust me --- I have before. But he has to play well -- all around. He has yet to do that this season.

[RayNAustin]

The only bias around here is this refusal to even acknowledge photographic proof of Campbell completely ignoring open receivers while throwing to one's covered like a blanket ... all the while with outstanding protection from the oft maligned o-line.

Not only is the bias so obvious, but also shows that no amount of evidence is enough to overcome the pure denial of the facts.

We have definitive evidence of another QB who took the same group and doubled the production in 2007. Yet we STILL have the denial.

Right now, Campbell is not only taking the Redskins down, but he's taking another coach with him. And I don't know if its a case of Zorn simply not knowing when to fold a bad hand, or if its foolish stubbornness regarding his own inability to fix Jason Campbell, but he'd better get a clue real fast or plan on getting another job real soon.

[roybus14]

The only bias around here is this refusal to even acknowledge photographic proof of Campbell completely ignoring open receivers while throwing to one's covered like a blanket ... all the while with outstanding protection from the oft maligned o-line.

Not only is the bias so obvious, but also shows that no amount of evidence is enough to overcome the pure denial of the facts.

We have definitive evidence of another QB who took the same group and doubled the production in 2007. Yet we STILL have the denial.

Right now, Campbell is not only taking the Redskins down, but he's taking another coach with him. And I don't know if its a case of Zorn simply not knowing when to fold a bad hand, or if its foolish stubbornness regarding his own inability to fix Jason Campbell, but he'd better get a clue real fast or plan on getting another job real soon.

Ray-Ray,

This is about Clinton not Jason... Can a brotha hate that dude more than you?? )

Seriously though, Clinton is locked in here for at least the next two years because of the money. Unless the NFL goes to an uncapped year, we are stuck with "Bro-Sweet" for at least two years good or not.

[RayNAustin]

That's part of it though ....don't ya'll get it? Clinton has been the heart and soul of this offense, and Zorn has singled him out ... first, last year,and now this year with this ridiculous decision to sit him on 3rd downs. To a guy like Portis, it's an insult to do this, and it's also not good strategy.

Last year they road his butt into the ground, and when he comes off the field for a breather Zorn jumps all over him very visibly.

This year, he's been limited ... 12 carries last week against the Lions? On the goal line, on 3rd down, they run Betts straight ahead and he get's stuffed. Then they bring in Clinton, and run wide on 4th down. This is INSANE .. sets Portis up for failure, and the indignity of it cannot possibly escape EVERYONE ... can it?

Especially given the molly coddling treatment that Campbell gets, suggesting that he's the emperor golden child that cannot do any wrong.

Clinton isn't the type to call out teammates, and he can't control what Zorn does, so he suffers it all in silence, but you can see it in his body language and his spirit. The lights are on, but nobody is home. And I don't freakin blame him .... Campbell isn't qualified to wash his laundry.