Fans of the Detroit Lions:

[SkinsJock]

I am a Redskins fan and I do think that we can beat the Lions - I also am very glad that Dan Snyder is our owner but I am probably only just behind Redskin in Canada in my lack of respect for how he and his stupid sidekick manage this team - unlike the Lions fans that can complain about how their FO managed their team, we cannot complain about our FO because we do not have one

HAIL

[KazooSkinsFan]

Detroit sucks. So do we.

...Have you any argument against that opinion, Vet?

An argument based in reality? Not potential or paper?

That's what I thought so.

We are 1-1, Detroit is 0-2. We have gone 9-9 since the beginning of last season, Detroit is 0-18. Sorry to rain on your parade with facts, but posting the idea we are Detroit is just so devoid of even a basic knowledge of the NFL the idea is worthy of no more then dismissal and mocking. You seriously need something more useful to spend your time on if you watch the NFL and come to this conclusion.

[SkinsJock]

.. Right now we are a 6 point favorite ... let's see which way that goes by the end of the week.

well that is really a 9 point deal if you think that they generally give the home team 3
that shows a little more confidence in our team than I would have expected BUT it also shows that the oddsmakers have little regard for the Lions too

[VetSkinsFan]

.. Right now we are a 6 point favorite ... let's see which way that goes by the end of the week.

well that is really a 9 point deal if you think that they generally give the home team 3
that shows a little more confidence in our team than I would have expected BUT it also shows that the oddsmakers have little regard for the Lions too

We play in Detriot.

[Deadskins]

.. Right now we are a 6 point favorite ... let's see which way that goes by the end of the week.

well that is really a 9 point deal if you think that they generally give the home team 3
that shows a little more confidence in our team than I would have expected BUT it also shows that the oddsmakers have little regard for the Lions too

We play in Detriot.

Correct, so adding the 3 points that oddsmakers generally give to the home team to the 6 points we are favored by, makes a 9 point spread.

[VetSkinsFan]

.. Right now we are a 6 point favorite ... let's see which way that goes by the end of the week.

well that is really a 9 point deal if you think that they generally give the home team 3
that shows a little more confidence in our team than I would have expected BUT it also shows that the oddsmakers have little regard for the Lions too

We play in Detriot.

Correct, so adding the 3 points that oddsmakers generally give to the home team to the 6 points we are favored by, makes a 9 point spread.

okay, I had a moment...sorry.

[El Mexican]

.. Right now we are a 6 point favorite ... let's see which way that goes by the end of the week.

well that is really a 9 point deal if you think that they generally give the home team 3
that shows a little more confidence in our team than I would have expected BUT it also shows that the oddsmakers have little regard for the Lions too

We play in Detriot.

Correct, so adding the 3 points that oddsmakers generally give to the home team to the 6 points we are favored by, makes a 9 point spread.

okay, I had a moment...sorry.

I'm talking about this season.

What I've seen so far does not convince me at all we are heading in the right direction.

You can line-up your stats against my opinion all day, but the reality is we have not played good at all.

Our record is adequate, we have been barely better than the pathetic Rams and that's about the only positive I can see.

My pessimism stems directly from what I've seen on the field this year.

[BearSkins]

Watched the Detroit game on Sunday and, while they aren't as bad as they are made out by stupid media hacks and while they hung with the Yikes for quite a while on Sun, the Skins should be more than capable of administering a sound whipping. Stafford just isn't ready for this level quite yet - too many 'college' plays still in him.

This is presuming the Skins can turn FGs into TDs of course.

[TincoSkin]

there are detroit fans?

[Deadskins]

.. Right now we are a 6 point favorite ... let's see which way that goes by the end of the week.

well that is really a 9 point deal if you think that they generally give the home team 3
that shows a little more confidence in our team than I would have expected BUT it also shows that the oddsmakers have little regard for the Lions too

We play in Detriot.

Correct, so adding the 3 points that oddsmakers generally give to the home team to the 6 points we are favored by, makes a 9 point spread.

okay, I had a moment...sorry.

I'm talking about this season.

What I've seen so far does not convince me at all we are heading in the right direction.

You can line-up your stats against my opinion all day, but the reality is we have not played good at all.

Our record is adequate, we have been barely better than the pathetic Rams and that's about the only positive I can see.

My pessimism stems directly from what I've seen on the field this year.

And you quoted that series of posts, why?

[PulpExposure]

This is presuming the Skins can turn FGs into TDs of course.

You're presuming quite a bit...

[SkinsJock]

This is presuming the Skins can turn FGs into TDs of course.

You're presuming quite a bit...

^^^^ what he said - BearSkins, you may not have heard this yet but this offense was in the Red Zone 5 times and came away with 3 FGs - and this against the Rams D

[KazooSkinsFan]

there are detroit fans?

Sort of. My father and I switched to the Skins when we first moved to the DC area in the 70s, the rest of the family are still "fans." My family in Michigan don't mention them other then it's cool they are on TV on Thanksgiving. Mostly they follow Michigan. Also the Tigers, Wings and Pistons. They will watch the Lions when they are on and it's convenient.

They are impressed the Lions are actually bad right now even for the Lions. They think Ford is a useless sack who could care less about winning games and if we accidentally do he'll gut the roster to slash costs. They think Millen's tenure was proof they actually don't want to win. My brother if you make him pick his favorite team will still say the Lions, but he mostly follows the Falcons or other teams since he lived in Atlanta quite a while. Actually he mostly watches college football and college hockey.

As for me, I considered them my second favorite team until they screwed Barry Sanders, the best thing that's happened to them in my lifetime, now I don't follow them at all. My brother agreed that was just a classless act and they should have let him go as well, but it's not like he cares that much. I did grow up there, my family is still largely there. I consider my family pretty typical of Lions fans.

[SkinsJock]

I cannot imagine being a fan like that - the thing is there are a lot of teams with fans who are only really there for the team when the team is doing well - I live in New England and when I first moved there from Annapolis and went to a sports bar, there was a sign in the bar that said "If you want to watch the Patriots, find another bar" - a lot of fans in New England grew up as Giants fans and a lot of their sons and daughters followed that team and some still do. That bar is now a Patriots bar and the Giants fans get a small TV to watch their games A lot of the fans in New England (maybe other places) are only for the "local" team if it is doing well - there were never as many Red Sox fans as there are now that they won a WS, although all AL East fans (outside of NY) love their own team and any team who is playing (hopefully beating) the Yankees

We have a great group of fans and we love this team


I just hope that we are not the first team to lose to the Lions

[KazooSkinsFan]

I cannot imagine being a fan like that - the thing is there are a lot of teams with fans who are only really there for the team when the team is doing well

That is so not what I said, try reading it again. If you need some help, the Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons sucked major portions of my life and the fans and I both remained with them. Michigan was 3-9 last year and not a dent. I actually described pretty clearly why they don't follow the Lions and it's not because they aren't "doing well." You need another hint, Snyder wants to win and personally I've suffered through a lot of years of sucking to mediocrity and still spend 350 to watch each and every game in HD every year. So why don't they follow the Lions, Jock? Same reason I don't. What is it?

[SkinsJock]

no worries Kazoo - I understand they don't like the way the team is managed/owned

that might apply in your scenario for Michigan but it is not the point I was making - Redskins fans' opinions of the owner of the team will not change - I'd venture to suggest that many Lions fans that do not like the Ford family will suddenly like them if that franchise wins a Super Bowl
Redskins fans opinions of the owner will not change - I don't want Snyder to not own the team, I kind of like him as an owner. I just cannot stand the fact that we do not have a proper FO.

my opinion of Steinbrenner affects how I feel about the Yankees - I like and respect a lot of Yankee players but I root for any team that is playing against the Yankees ONLY because I cannot stand Steinbrenner - despite the media trying to portray Snyder as trying to "buy a trophy" that is not going to affect my opinion that Snyder is a good person and a good owner of this team - he just needs to get some NFL people in here to manage it is all

New England's fans and the media are terribly biased by how the team is doing not by who owns the team - they will turn around on Kraft in a heartbeat if this team goes back to what it was 20 years ago

[KazooSkinsFan]

I'd venture to suggest that many Lions fans that do not like the Ford family will suddenly like them if that franchise wins a Super Bowl

This is a pointless statement. To win he would have to stop running the team to lose, which is what Lions fans want. If he did that, they would be happy without the Super Bowl, so of course they would be happy with it. You're not getting the Ford (doesn't care) versus Snyder (personal dislike) thing yet, are you?

[SkinsJock]

No - I kind of like Snyder and I'm happy to say that while I drive a foreign built car and would buy a GM product before I'd buy a Ford product, I have a deal of respect for the Ford family and their heritage

so that's it in a nutshell

must say though I like the Buckeyes record against the Wolverines the past 5 years, I cannot stand the Pistons, and have always felt the Red Wings were good but not great - I guess the baseball team is okay but I liked them better in the 70's

[KazooSkinsFan]

No - I kind of like Snyder and I'm happy to say that while I drive a foreign built car and would buy a GM product before I'd buy a Ford product, I have a deal of respect for the Ford family and their heritage

so that's it in a nutshell

must say though I like the Buckeyes record against the Wolverines the past 5 years, I cannot stand the Pistons, and have always felt the Red Wings were good but not great - I guess the baseball team is okay but I liked them better in the 70's

I never buy Detroit cars, I only buy foreign. I want the US auto industry to die and I think Michigan clinging to the industry destroyed by unions and both their own State as well as the Federal Government is making their economy worse, not better.

As for the Wings, I'll take the 4 Cups we won over the last 12 seasons, you can take the "good, not great." Yes, the last 5 years the Wolverines have not done well against the Buckeyes, but we're well ahead in all time record and we owned Cooper, who was the coach before Tressel. These things go in streaks for sure. Rich is going to own the conservative Tressel starting in a year or two, you watch.

The Tigers are still my "favorite" if I have to pick a baseball team, but after being obsessed with playing and following baseball in the 70s as a kid they had completely lost me by 94 after the endless strikes and lockouts and I haven't come back. I did watch 3 or 4 innings of them in the world series a couple years ago, by far the most I'd watched in years. I follow the Pistons, but I'm more of a college basketball fan, which works living in the Triangle of North Carolina. That doesn't change whether they are good or not. I don't really watch them on TV, I go to a game once in awhile.

I'm also a Maryland (BS) and VT (MS) as well as Michigan (MBA) alum and I love college football, I go to a couple of those games a year too. Mostly I like Pro and College Football and Pro and College Hockey, though college hockey is very hard to follow other then game summaries here. I used to go to a lot of games when I lived in the north though.

[PulpExposure]

As for the Wings, I'll take the 4 Cups we won over the last 12 seasons, you can take the "good, not great."

Seriously, I can't understand why someone could say this. The Wings are pretty much a model franchise in sports, and the greatest dynasty of this era in all sports.

[SkinsJock]

As for the Wings, I'll take the 4 Cups we won over the last 12 seasons, you can take the "good, not great."

Seriously, I can't understand why someone could say this. The Wings are pretty much a model franchise in sports, and the greatest dynasty of this era in all sports.

maybe to get a rise out of the old Kazoo - and it worked

I'm just an Aussie that has no regard for anything to do with the NHL except for the fantastic Washington Capitals

we are talking about fans and I just do not understand some fans of other franchises being as fickle as they seem to me

[1niksder]

Can you give us any pointers on how to build institutionally with some kind of order, structure and logic?

Your truly,
El Mex.

The Lions got rid of every department head they had, on the field and off. Pretty much no one was spared from the QB to the guy that was in charge of off loading trucks.

The Owner was the only one safe.

Do you want to go down that road?

[El Mexican]

Can you give us any pointers on how to build institutionally with some kind of order, structure and logic?

Your truly,
El Mex.

The Lions got rid of every department head they had, on the field and off. Pretty much no one was spared from the QB to the guy that was in charge of off loading trucks.

The Owner was the only one safe.

Do you want to go down that road?

If it works, yes.

We did something similar when Spurrier left and Gibbs II came in. We did the same thing when Marty got here.

It's not like that this franchise is afraid of change.

When things are not working out, why not change direction?

From what I've seen so far, we won't suddenly transform into the great Packers, 49' rs or even the respectable Seahawks that ran the WCO with success. Campbell won't turn into anytime soon into Young, Montana, Favre, Hasselbeck, etc.

So I ask you again, why wallow in mediocrity?

[Deadskins]

Because going the route you propose might get even worse results.

[KazooSkinsFan]

maybe to get a rise out of the old Kazoo - and it worked

I just you can have the "good, not great" but I'll take the 4 Cups. If I respond that's getting a "rise" out of me? Sure jock, let's go with that.