The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

brad7686 wrote:

riggofan wrote:I'll tell you one thing. Campbell sure as heck doesn't miss ey! Those guys are always on point for some reason.

That's because ey can actually catch a ball. He may fumble afterwards though, but he catches it.

Just FYI Chris ey has fumbled 8 times and only lost 3 of those fumbles now in his 6th year with 328 receptions. That's a lost fumble every two years. That's a little over 1 fumble every year. There is a lot of improvement we can talk about, but Chris ey is extremely low on that list.

cleg wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

cleg wrote:I had an epiphany yesterday which made it very clear in my mind that the problems with this team are not on the field but on the sideline with a coach who clearly is not up to the job.

Problem is, Campbell will be thrown out with Zorn and then what? Bill Cower or Mike Shanahan and who?

Sam Braford, Colt McCoy, or Jevon Snead. Take your pick.

Will they be available in the 10-15 pick range because that's about where we will end up with another 7-9, 8-8 season.

Tim Tebow would be a steal in the 2nd or 3rd round.. Dude has more heart and leadership skill than any of those other 3 QBs. Plus he has God on his side. He's been on dozens of missions around the world.

frankcal20 wrote:Why does it matter. We have a very good QB here. JC has the #12 QB rating. He's #7 in completion percentage and 14th in yards. 14th in yards per attempt. He's #3 in rushing at the QB position.

HE'S NOT AWFUL!!!!!

I don't know why we are talking about drafting a QB in the 1st round. That's just ridiculous in my opinion. Give the guy a break. He's good but going to get better with better play calling and better execution of the plays that are being called because at the end of the day, it's about beating the man in front of you. And we don't do that often.

Frank, you sound like a broken record. Come on. I agree that the playcalling was atrocious, but JC is no prize.

ChocolateMilk wrote:

cleg wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

cleg wrote:I had an epiphany yesterday which made it very clear in my mind that the problems with this team are not on the field but on the sideline with a coach who clearly is not up to the job.

Problem is, Campbell will be thrown out with Zorn and then what? Bill Cower or Mike Shanahan and who?

Sam Braford, Colt McCoy, or Jevon Snead. Take your pick.

Will they be available in the 10-15 pick range because that's about where we will end up with another 7-9, 8-8 season.

Tim Tebow would be a steal in the 2nd or 3rd round.. Dude has more heart and leadership skill than any of those other 3 QBs. Plus he has God on his side. He's been on dozens of missions around the world.

I love Tebow. He is a BORN leader. He will have to adjust his throwing motion, but I agree he would be a steal in the 2nd. He won't go to the 3rd IMHO. He may even be a first rounder. This team needs a born leader like Tebow that doesn't accept mediocrity.

ChocolateMilk wrote:

cleg wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

cleg wrote:I had an epiphany yesterday which made it very clear in my mind that the problems with this team are not on the field but on the sideline with a coach who clearly is not up to the job.

Problem is, Campbell will be thrown out with Zorn and then what? Bill Cower or Mike Shanahan and who?

Sam Braford, Colt McCoy, or Jevon Snead. Take your pick.

Will they be available in the 10-15 pick range because that's about where we will end up with another 7-9, 8-8 season.

Tim Tebow would be a steal in the 2nd or 3rd round.. Dude has more heart and leadership skill than any of those other 3 QBs. Plus he has God on his side. He's been on dozens of missions around the world.

That's the ticket. Draft God! He'd be hard to tackle!

markshark84 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Why does it matter. We have a very good QB here. JC has the #12 QB rating. He's #7 in completion percentage and 14th in yards. 14th in yards per attempt. He's #3 in rushing at the QB position.

HE'S NOT AWFUL!!!!!

I don't know why we are talking about drafting a QB in the 1st round. That's just ridiculous in my opinion. Give the guy a break. He's good but going to get better with better play calling and better execution of the plays that are being called because at the end of the day, it's about beating the man in front of you. And we don't do that often.

Frank, you sound like a broken record. Come on. I agree that the playcalling was atrocious, but JC is no prize.

I honestly believe it's more of a coach issue than a QB issue. If JC goes somewhere, we're going to be embarrassed.

riggofan wrote:I'll tell you one thing. Campbell sure as heck doesn't miss ey! Those guys are always on point for some reason.

ey is slower than our WRs, so balls that are behind him aren't as far behind when compared to the WR. And he is simply the best receiver on the team, by far!

But this was a good game by Campbell other than the first play of the game, the almost safety, the horrendous throw the Kelly in the end zone that the DB couldn't even get to, and throw to D Thomas that everyone says was dropped didn't need to be as hot or as low. Even with all that I still say he had a good game. And he is on the pace for another 8 TD year! True he had one droped (Sellers, but he missed three; Kelly twice and ey- the D Thomas was part WR part QB fault so that one is a wash).

But still, for him, he had a good day.

Caneskin,

I don't agree with your criticism of Jason Campbell's perceived lack of execution in yesterday's game.

Campbell is quoted in today' Washington Post saying Zorn does not allow him to change the play (audible) inside the red zone.

We see franchise QBs like Peyton Manning, Brady & Romo step up to the line, look out at the defensive scheme & change the play if they know the one that is called by their coach is going to fail.

Jason has the confidence to make plays, but he can't be perfect.

He will miss throws he "should" make, but yesterday he threw for 241 without a TD because of dropped passes and his coach.

On first down and goal Zorn should have had Jason take a shot in the end zone. Hit ey for a crossing pattern in the middle.

Tony Gonzalez has made a living running this route. It starts with getting a good push off the snap, fake like you are going to block, roll off & sneak past the pass rush ready to receive the pass.

Jason felt the pass rush and to my admiration stepped up into the pocket and found ey in the middle on the 50-yard line. Why can't that be called at the 8-yard line?

Zorn needs to stop playing it safe. Or the struggles of the offense will continue and we will keep calling for Jason's dismissal. Undeservedly so.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

riggofan wrote:I'll tell you one thing. Campbell sure as heck doesn't miss ey! Those guys are always on point for some reason.

That's because ey can actually catch a ball. He may fumble afterwards though, but he catches it.

Just FYI Chris ey has fumbled 8 times and only lost 3 of those fumbles now in his 6th year with 328 receptions. That's a lost fumble every two years. That's a little over 1 fumble every year. There is a lot of improvement we can talk about, but Chris ey is extremely low on that list.

He's fumbled a lot lately though. I'm not knockin the guy, but he does put in on the ground alot for a TE.

Campbell is not a franchise quarterback. Actually, I think all of these discussions are mute anyway as I do not believe that Campbell and Zorn will be here next year, regardless of what they do now. I think the dice have been cast and they came up snake-eyes.

From CBSSports.com

Redskins QB Jason Campbell suffered a sprained ankle in the second quarter Sunday against the Rams. "He gutted it out. I avoided calling plays that required him to roll out after the injury," Redskins coach Jim Zorn said. Campbell completed 23 of 35 passes for 242 yards against the Rams. He also rushed seven times for 28 yards. The Redskins scored just nine points against the Rams, but part of the problem for Washington failing to find the end zone could have been Campbell's injury.
(Updated 09/21/2009).

frankcal20 wrote:After falling on the sword last week and being the target for all the criticism, Campbell came out ready to play. He moved the ball very well yesterday and when a play needed to be made, he did it. Seeing JC rush the ball for 28 yards yesterday was a bright spot in our offense. I think out of his 7 runs, 4 or 5 were for 1st downs. Good job. He was 23-35 in passing completing 66% of his passes. That number should be higher since there were 3 or 4 drops in there that were sure big plays or TD's.

Given the lack of trust of your head coach, great job of keeping this team in the game and I would say that you should be complemented for your efforts. For this week, I think the skeptic's will be off your back.

Here come's the Lions.

Here here....or Hear Hear..... Nicely done Mr. JCam.

It would be more correct to say..."Looks out Lions, here we come with the Tomahawk Chop"

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think if he were turning the ball over. Throwing to the wrong player, etc then you loose trust but he seems to make good decisions.

The obsession with turnovers is absurd. Turnovers happen in the NFL

Yes they do, and that is the single best stat for predicting the outcome of games. Turnovers are game killers, so no, the obsession with them is definitely not absurd.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Why does it matter. We have a very good QB here. JC has the #12 QB rating. He's #7 in completion percentage and 14th in yards. 14th in yards per attempt. He's #3 in rushing at the QB position.

HE'S NOT AWFUL!!!!!

I don't know why we are talking about drafting a QB in the 1st round. That's just ridiculous in my opinion. Give the guy a break. He's good but going to get better with better play calling and better execution of the plays that are being called because at the end of the day, it's about beating the man in front of you. And we don't do that often.

Frank, you sound like a broken record. Come on. I agree that the playcalling was atrocious, but JC is no prize.

I honestly believe it's more of a coach issue than a QB issue. If JC goes somewhere, we're going to be embarrassed.

After yesterday, I can see your point, but I personally think that the issues this team has had on the offensive side under JC are consistent regardless of coach. I am fully confident we will not be embarrassed. We couldn't unload him for a 3rd round draft pick this summer. The FO was trying to give him away. Barring injury or roster issue, JC will not start for another team -- if he does not play well this season. Teams will not overlook the lack of points that come under his watch -- regardless of Zorn's horrendous playcalling -- and the fact that he has not improved on the issues that have hurt him over the past 4 years (as we have seen fumbling is still an issue, holding onto the ball, slow decision making, ability to move in the pocket, vocal leadership (and if you want to include sliding), etc.).

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think if he were turning the ball over. Throwing to the wrong player, etc then you loose trust but he seems to make good decisions.

The obsession with turnovers is absurd. Turnovers happen in the NFL

Yes they do, and that is the single best stat for predicting the outcome of games. Turnovers are game killers, so no, the obsession with them is definitely not absurd.

What exactly do the Skins do with turnovers? I know the answer isn't score 6 points with them...

Overall JC did a good job. No interceptions was key.
Now he has to hone in on the touchdowns in the red zone.
Either our receivers take it to the house before the red zone. Or we have a red zone package ready to go. I just want to see bigger targets to maximize the options for JC. Chris ey, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas are plenty big targets for JC.
SO Jim Zorn please insert the big targets in the red zone. Please it will help this offense. Please, Please oh please!
JC you can do it. You got it man. Lets do it baby oh yeah ! Come on Redskins brethren. Woooooo!

DEHog wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Given the lack of trust by your head coach

And who's fault is that?? I certainly cant blame Zorn for not trusting JC.

It's ironic...Zorn is coaching to not lose his job and it going to cost him his job.

I agree - it seemed to me that after the 6-2 start last year, Zorn realized the team was not that good and we probably should have been 4-4 - I think he started to coach a lot more defensively and that was when he started cutting back on the game plan for Campbell

Campbell might not b e a very good QB but the offensive game planning has been atrocious

If Zorn does not really step up big time here and I mean really change the game plan around, he might not even last a year - with this owner and his sidekick anything is possible

Champsturf wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think if he were turning the ball over. Throwing to the wrong player, etc then you loose trust but he seems to make good decisions.

The obsession with turnovers is absurd. Turnovers happen in the NFL

Yes they do, and that is the single best stat for predicting the outcome of games. Turnovers are game killers, so no, the obsession with them is definitely not absurd.

What exactly do the Skins do with turnovers? I know the answer isn't score 6 points with them...

Keep the other team from scoring.

Campbell is quoted in today' Washington Post saying Zorn does not allow him to change the play (audible) inside the red zone.

We see franchise QBs like Peyton Manning, Brady & Romo step up to the line, look out at the defensive scheme & change the play if they know the one that is called by their coach is going to fail.

The difference is that JC is nowhere close to being a franchise qb. He is an NFL backup.

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think if he were turning the ball over. Throwing to the wrong player, etc then you loose trust but he seems to make good decisions.

The obsession with turnovers is absurd. Turnovers happen in the NFL

Yes they do, and that is the single best stat for predicting the outcome of games. Turnovers are game killers, so no, the obsession with them is definitely not absurd.

Then explain to me why JC and his 6 int's only won 6 games last year? Kurt Warner threw 14 int's last year and his team made it to the Super Bowl. Big Ben had 15 and his team won the Super Bowl. Low int numbers are obviously desirable, but it does you no good when your qb becomes so concerned about not turning the ball over that he fails to take chances. Watch JC play and he never throws a ball unless his receiver is wide open. It's the play not to lose mentality that is killing this offense.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think if he were turning the ball over. Throwing to the wrong player, etc then you loose trust but he seems to make good decisions.

The obsession with turnovers is absurd. Turnovers happen in the NFL

Yes they do, and that is the single best stat for predicting the outcome of games. Turnovers are game killers, so no, the obsession with them is definitely not absurd.

Then explain to me why JC and his 6 int's only won 6 games last year? Kurt Warner threw 14 int's last year and his team made it to the Super Bowl. Big Ben had 15 and his team won the Super Bowl. Low int numbers are obviously desirable, but it does you no good when your qb becomes so concerned about not turning the ball over that he fails to take chances. Watch JC play and he never throws a ball unless his receiver is wide open. It's the play not to lose mentality that is killing this offense.

Well, if you look at those teams' records in the games in which the turnovers happened, you might see the correlation.
Also, INTs aren't the only type of turnover, and the team you're playing can make turnovers too.

PS It's funny you should mention the two SB teams. Warner threw a pretty costly pick in that game just before halftime, didn't he?