The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Redskin in Canada wrote:You are a bunch of pessimists and negative fans.

And it is the first game of the season when the OL is still healthy and complete ...

Nothing like the -RECORD- to show the truth. It is only the first game of the season. I do not know whether to have hope or fear for the remaining 15 games of the season.

be interesting to here "the apologists" explain what we saw today and the realities that we are facing as a result of our great management team

I can hear it now "the players and coaches are responsible .... " but who gets those players and coaches for our team

we got troubles, right here - and it's spelled with a capital T

I did think that Haynesworth showed up to play but the problems look to be the offensive line, the QB, the game calling by Zorn and while the defense was on the field way too much today because of the ineptness of the offense they also had some issues they need to work on

I love that some think we have an easy game coming up - nobody is easy when you cannot score 21 points a game in today's NFL

The QB situation is almost hopeless as we do not have any options - we all had hoped that Campbell might be motivated to step up but I think we now know that this guy is just not going to make it

Skinsfan55 wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:92 did his part the rest of our D didn't Our O is in peril
no-huddle cld be the answer?


I wouldn't mind if Shanahan was brought in

I would.

Shanahan is a solid coach but he's old and set in his ways. The man is great, but he's lost a lot of his creativity and he's no longer an innovator.

I would like to avoid Cowher too, I don't believe his heart would be in the right place for a comeback.

Honestly, Russ Grim is at the top of my list. He's a guy who's got a bright star in the NFL, he's a proud former Redskin and he could make a big difference. He's a strong enough personality to lead the team, but smart enough to delegate responsibilities when needed (I don't see him calling plays or forcing personnel moves.) To me he seems like a really good candidate.

This post is COMPLETELY off topic, so I'll reply in the same manner...

You don't want the rat or the jaw because they are set in their collective ways...you'd rather have an ineffective, unimaginative coach in zorn? Screw that! I'd take old school over this crap!

Back on topic though, JC is a shart...Good luck to him wherever he's the backup QB.

wow, i bet CHI would trade Cutler for Campbell...haha

Campbell is slow and inaccurate (many years in, he's STILLl not on the same page with Moss). So was Mark Rypien. Fortunately, Rypien had good coaching and good personnel people to support him. Campbell has neither. Do you think ANYONE in the league is afraid of Campbell? I had Cowboy fans LAUGHING OUT LOUD at me that this guy is still QB. It's EMBARASSING!

I used to think Zorn was a good coach, but how on Earth can he have a) a QB who apparently has NOT been trained NOT to throw the ball after they have run over the line of scrimmage b) players like Landry who are obviously undisciplined (obvious late hit among things) c) a player like Randle El who apparently has NOT been coached to throw the ball away if the receiver is covered....

Then we have player personnel. Weak offensive line has been beat to death. Anybody wanna talk about our wonderful WR picks last year? Devin Thomas? Malcolm Kelly? Was there a third guy? Skinsfreak said this is the big breakout year for them? Hah! Tuck those receiver names away, they're bound to be very, very obscure trivia one day.

This team will not win until we get a change of ownership or Danny decides to get a real job, something he's qualified for, instead of playing with a football team as a hobby.

It would have been nice if moss could have actually gotten into a route but webster manhandled him all day. Thats why he had a little hissy fit and punched him. He also sat on that interception, he really needed to come back to it. Ever notice how Moss has big games and than games where he does absolutely nothing? Its because he can't even get off the line against half the corners in the league. Back to the topic, JC was far from sharp today, but nobody was open, and they didn't want to pass until the end of the game anyway. A game plan of heavy running against the Giants, that's smart.

What we saw of Campbell today is what we have seen all along. Now comes the excuses for him, as we have also seen all along. Is there anyone in the entire universe, except Jason Campbell, that doesn't know that this is a make-or-break years for him? If he did anything today, it was to add credibility to Cerranto and Snyders hunt for another quarterback.

I would rather see Todd Collins in than Campbell. If Brennan is smart, he will use this time to get ready to battle for the starting quarterback position next year. I seriously doubt that Campbell and Zorn will be here next year.

Moss clearly got handled but so did Kelly. JC did not have enough time to find the open receiver but honestly, I'm not sure if any of our receivers were open. I think the o-line did an OK job given the dline they went up against but our WR's didn't do what they were supposed to do. I would have liked to see us utilize a few more pick plays or drags across the field to open guys up. Maybe next time we play a fast dline we can roll JC out of the pocket to buy some time. Just my two cents.

[quote="frankcal20"]Moss clearly got handled but so did Kelly. JC did not have enough time to find the open receiver but honestly, I'm not sure if any of our receivers were open. I think the o-line did an OK job given the dline they went up against but our WR's didn't do what they were supposed to do. I would have liked to see us utilize a few more pick plays or drags across the field to open guys up. Maybe next time we play a fast dline we can roll JC out of the pocket to buy some time. Just my two cents.[/quote]

Not even worth that. Thanks!

Seriously - I don't know what your problem is and why you seem to feel the need to make personal attacks at me. I have an opinion. I did nor said anything about you at any time for you to feel so offended and feel the need to go after everything I post.

I can only chalk it up to being totally unhappy with a result of the game and being in 100% disagreement with everything I say.

Either way, I could care less. It's just annoying that you feel the need to do so.

JC did not have enough time to find the open receiver but honestly, I'm not sure if any of our receivers were open

The Giants got some pressure on JC but he had plenty of opportunities to make plays. Like when he overthrew JC by 10 yards on the deep route in the 2nd quarter. JC is just too slow making decisions and his release is still way too slow. On the fumble JC held the ball for way too long.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

JC did not have enough time to find the open receiver but honestly, I'm not sure if any of our receivers were open

The Giants got some pressure on JC but he had plenty of opportunities to make plays. Like when he overthrew JC by 10 yards on the deep route in the 2nd quarter. JC is just too slow making decisions and his release is still way too slow. On the fumble JC held the ball for way too long.

On the fumble, that was 100% on JC. As a QB, you've got to have a clock in your head. But b/c I was at home, I couldn't see everything that was happening. JC actually did not over throw Moss on that play. Moss turned in and JC through out. I think it was more about miss-communication than anything.

I listen to NFL radio all day at work and when I am in my car on my way to appointments. All of the NFL guys say that Campbell is a very good QB and given the time to make plays, he will.

Now, what I would like to see him do is get out of the pocket more when it collapses. Also, he needs to run to pick up the first downs more or gain some yards on plays. That'll keep LBR's closer to the L.O.S.

mweb08 wrote:JC made a horrible play on the fumble by not stepping up into the pocket. He also made a boneheaded play by throwing the pick after crossing the line of scrimmage, however, after the ball was thrown, the pick was really on Moss, and it was a great play by Webster.

So two really bad plays no doubt. Other than that he played quite well I thought. 19-26 for 211 yards is pretty good. And it's not like he got much help from the running game or Zorn, who continuously called ineffective running plays on 1st and 2nd downs in the second half especially, setting up 3rd and 5 or more. That's putting your QB and offense in a bad position to succeed.

Lets also consider that the Giants are one of the best defenses in the league, and have the best pass rushing front 4 in the league. There were a couple of key plays where Jason had absolutely no chance due to big pressure right up the middle. The play before the fake FG for instance. Jason had no share of the blame for them not getting in the end zone there until the fake. There was an ineffective running play, the WR screen to Moss that lost 2 yards, and a 3rd down play where the O-line let someone come free right up the middle.

Zorn needs to change up the play calling, that's the biggest problem imo.

It is misleading IMHO to cite Campbell's stats as a true reflection of his performance as a QB and the leader of the offense. There are no statistics for his ineptitude as a leader. The offense plays mostly uninspired and often not on the same page. There is no sense of urgency or timing with him in the poclet. This all falls on Campbell. He isn't just one player. He represents more than that (or at least he should).He seems to be nervous, wanting to avoid mistakes. This, of course, leads to mistakes....like not stepping into the pocket, but instead counting slowly to ten while standing there with the ball outstretched for anyone to swat away. We seem a QB and some tackling lessons away from being a playoff team.

mweb08 wrote:JC made a horrible play on the fumble by not stepping up into the pocket. He also made a boneheaded play by throwing the pick after crossing the line of scrimmage, however, after the ball was thrown, the pick was really on Moss, and it was a great play by Webster.

So two really bad plays no doubt. Other than that he played quite well I thought. 19-26 for 211 yards is pretty good. And it's not like he got much help from the running game or Zorn, who continuously called ineffective running plays on 1st and 2nd downs in the second half especially, setting up 3rd and 5 or more. That's putting your QB and offense in a bad position to succeed.

Lets also consider that the Giants are one of the best defenses in the league, and have the best pass rushing front 4 in the league. There were a couple of key plays where Jason had absolutely no chance due to big pressure right up the middle. The play before the fake FG for instance. Jason had no share of the blame for them not getting in the end zone there until the fake. There was an ineffective running play, the WR screen to Moss that lost 2 yards, and a 3rd down play where the O-line let someone come free right up the middle.

Zorn needs to change up the play calling, that's the biggest problem imo.

It is misleading IMHO to cite Campbell's stats as a true reflection of his performance as a QB and the leader of the offense. There are no statistics for his ineptitude as a leader. The offense plays mostly uninspired and often not on the same page. There is no sense of urgency or timing with him in the poclet. This all falls on Campbell. He isn't just one player. He represents more than that (or at least he should).He seems to be nervous, wanting to avoid mistakes. This, of course, leads to mistakes....like not stepping into the pocket, but instead counting slowly to ten while standing there with the ball outstretched for anyone to swat away. We seem a QB and some tackling lessons away from being a playoff team.

mweb08 wrote:JC made a horrible play on the fumble by not stepping up into the pocket. He also made a boneheaded play by throwing the pick after crossing the line of scrimmage, however, after the ball was thrown, the pick was really on Moss, and it was a great play by Webster.

So two really bad plays no doubt. Other than that he played quite well I thought. 19-26 for 211 yards is pretty good. And it's not like he got much help from the running game or Zorn, who continuously called ineffective running plays on 1st and 2nd downs in the second half especially, setting up 3rd and 5 or more. That's putting your QB and offense in a bad position to succeed.

Lets also consider that the Giants are one of the best defenses in the league, and have the best pass rushing front 4 in the league. There were a couple of key plays where Jason had absolutely no chance due to big pressure right up the middle. The play before the fake FG for instance. Jason had no share of the blame for them not getting in the end zone there until the fake. There was an ineffective running play, the WR screen to Moss that lost 2 yards, and a 3rd down play where the O-line let someone come free right up the middle.

Zorn needs to change up the play calling, that's the biggest problem imo.

It is misleading IMHO to cite Campbell's stats as a true reflection of his performance as a QB and the leader of the offense. There are no statistics for his ineptitude as a leader. The offense plays mostly uninspired and often not on the same page. There is no sense of urgency or timing with him in the poclet. This all falls on Campbell. He isn't just one player. He represents more than that (or at least he should).He seems to be nervous, wanting to avoid mistakes. This, of course, leads to mistakes....like not stepping into the pocket, but instead counting slowly to ten while standing there with the ball outstretched for anyone to swat away. We seem a QB and some tackling lessons away from being a playoff team.

Jason Campbell had a horrible game. That is obvious.
However I did see some positive things. JC did make some good reads on a few plays and made some good throws. His fumble and interception obviously were huge mistakes.
I do think that it was important for Campbell to get the mistakes out of the way early this year. Last year he was so afraid to make a mistake that he played far too conservative.

This year I hope he just learns from his mistakes and now can move forward. It is only game one. I am not a huge JC supporter but I did see some signs of hope to work with. If JC played this bad and we bearly lost. Then we should not be that far off.

HEROHAMO wrote: I do think that it was important for Campbell to get the mistakes out of the way early this year.

What makes you think that he has gotten the mistakes out of the way, or that he will release faster with better judgement, or that the OL will play better, or that the WRs will open up, or that ... never mind.

However ... we will play against weaker DLs and the Skins will win some games, enough to get us about 8 - 8 where we always thought they would be.

Unfortuately, it also looks as last place in this tough NFC East and no playoffs .... again where we always thought they would be.

Please do not overreact. It is not a disaster. It is just another mediocre season. Yep, right there where we thought they would be.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I'm just really worried about the future of the team.

I've been a front office supporter the last few years, I think Vinny's done a good job and Snyder is a pretty good NFL owner but they made a huge mistake IMO by not hiring Fassel.

Jim Fassel is a good coach but there was so much fan backlash against hiring him that Snyder had to quickly promote Zorn to HC and the staff was quickly patched together. Fassel to me looks like the perfect guy to give a second chance to. He's relatively young, has a pretty good track record and seems to have learned a lot from a previous position.

Belichick, Dungy, Carrol, Walsh, Levy and others were not immediate successes at coaching in the NFL and had even better success with their second or even third teams.

I agree with you re Fassel. I was originally anti-Fassel, but then I did some reading up on him, and changed my mind. That's all water under the bridge now though.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Boy, Jason Campbell really crapped the bed this afternoon.

I think that's a bit over the top. OK, JC wasn't that good (maybe a 4.5/10), and he made some huge errors with the pick and the fumble (Eli also had a pick and a fumble), but people are ignoring the fact he also made some decent plays. He completed 73%, and averaged just over 8yds/attempt - not bad against a solid defense. Plenty of QBs struggled yesterday. Delhomme continued last year's self-destruction down in Carolina, and Jay Cutler, who a lot of fans were praying for here in DC, was a disaster up in Chicago. Warner, Bulger, and Palmer (all veterans and former Pro-Bowlers) all struggled yesterday, so let's not hang JC after just one game. The whole team was sloppy. The run offense had one good play and was stuffed most of the rest of the game, and the pass defense was soft, letting Eli work those short and medium routes all day. Overall, it was a C- performance by the whole team, including JC, and hopefully they all step up next week against the Rams.

Mursilis wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Boy, Jason Campbell really crapped the bed this afternoon.

I think that's a bit over the top. OK, JC wasn't that good (maybe a 4.5/10), and he made some huge errors with the pick and the fumble (Eli also had a pick and a fumble), but people are ignoring the fact he also made some decent plays. He completed 73%, and averaged just over 8yds/attempt - not bad against a solid defense. Plenty of QBs struggled yesterday. Delhomme continued last year's self-destruction down in Carolina, and Jay Cutler, who a lot of fans were praying for here in DC, was a disaster up in Chicago. Warner, Bulger, and Palmer (all veterans and former Pro-Bowlers) all struggled yesterday, so let's not hang JC after just one game. The whole team was sloppy. The run offense had one good play and was stuffed most of the rest of the game, and the pass defense was soft, letting Eli work those short and medium routes all day. Overall, it was a C- performance by the whole team, including JC, and hopefully they all step up next week against the Rams.

QFT! Thank you, Mursilis, for your insightful post. I agree with your sentiment and do have hope that they will step it up next week vs the Rams.

I think the boneheaded WR option pass on the first drive really screwed the pooch for us. Its an NFC - East game and we're getting cute our first time with the ball? I thought that was a bad call that really set a bad tone right from the get-go.

First of all - WAKE UP - it's only one game - AND, it's a game that we really hoped we could win but deep down did not think we would

The bad news is that in my opinion the offense looked like it has not made anywhere near the improvement we needed. Nobody really thought we would have a good offense this season but we did expect an offense that could manage to be even a little bit more effective than last year, NOT

The giants defensive line and the offensive lines are really good but c'mon - the inability of our offense to even stay on the field, let alone even look like any sort of scoring offense resulted in their defense being on the field for a little over 23 minutes of the 60 minutes played. If the giants defense had been forced to be on the field for all that time AND in the first game of the season, like we did, we might have had some chance - not much of a chance really because apart from the fact that our offense could not give the D any decent time consuming drives, we do not seem to have made any changes to our inability to put points on the board offensively.

I agree that we did not look too bad and it was against a decent team BUT we also looked like the dire predictions for how well the offensive line might be able to run and pass block and Campbell's ability to be more effective, were true

We do not need to see Collins instead of Campbell, Collins is a very good back-up but he is not a starting QB - we really need Campbell, the HC and the offensive line to start playing and coaching like they can - I still think that our defense will be special this year



fortunately we have the opportunity in the next 7 games to be 6-2 (or 7-1 ) but this team needs to make a huge effort or we will almost certainly be a lot worse than the predicted 8-8 team we hoped for

The problem with JC, IMHO, are a few things:

1. He is playing as if he is afraid to take a chance. Afraid to audible out of something Zorn called. Afraid to be "Auburn" Jason.

2. His temperment is too laid back, especially after being disrespected in the off-season the way he was. There is a time to remain classy and calm and there is a time to get a little wild. I'd rather see Jason yelling at his teammates, yelling at Zorn because of his play calling, and taking more chances even if he makes a mistake than to see what I am seeing now because he has the arm and the legs to make big plays.

3. Thiesman made a great point on his show this morning when talking about Jason. He said that Jason appears to be trying so hard to do what Zorn wants him to that he has paralyzed himself because he's always thinking and analyzing the things he has to do for Zorn, instead of just going out and playing the game.

4. As much of a fuss the OC in Pittsburgh makes about Ben holding the ball to long, Mike Tomlin is not going to stop Ben from doing it. Why? Because Ben makes plays. Ben is not as mobile and athletic as Jason is but he has a pocket presence and a unique escapability that has enabled him to make big play after big play when the play has broken down. That is what Jason needs to do. Make plays. Use his legs to make plays.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Yall are wayyyyyy late, better late than never.

What a weak case to say "I told you so." Almost all the defense of JC was he had potential and to give him a chance and NFL QBs are so hard to find so you need to work with what you have. I've never seen anyone say he's the next Favre. You're smirking you didn't want to give him a chance? Well done, I'm impressed. NOT

roybus14 wrote:The problem with JC, IMHO, are a few things:

...

The problem with JC is he's just not NFL starting good. You can't study your way past your ability. He's got the arm, but that's it. He's not smart enough, quick enough or resourceful enough to be a starting NFL quarterback. To be an NFL quarterback you need to be able to read a D and make a decision, not just sit and wait for something to develop, he obviously can't. You need to be able to scramble and make things happen, he doesn't. He's not an NFL starting quarterback. He could be a decent backup, like TC, who can come in a game and not screw it up. That's his potential.

Exactly. The argument being thrown around that you either hate JC or think he's the greatest QB ever is just revisionist's history. Most people on this board took that tact that we don't know if he's good or not because there were a lot of things that weren't good on offense.