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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:24 pm
by Jake
VetSkinsFan wrote:Skeletor wrote:Why should we be upset about "losing" our third round pick. Wouldn't we have used it to draft a player?
Isn't that what we just did? You can argue about whether it's too high or not, but we didn't just lose a pick. We used a pick (something we tend not to do).
And the silver lining, some tangible news in the middle of the July football doldrums..
That 3rd round pick is a nice spot to pick up an interior offensive lineman.
Which we wouldn't have been able to use until NEXT YEAR anyway so why not address a need this time around.
From all of what I have been reading they did the right thing by taking a chance on this guy. Either way, the pick was going to be used anyways so why not.
Hell, Jarmon's younger than ME. We added depth and youth.
Obviously there was no offensive lineman available in the supplemental draft and if there was, was not good enough to get drafted so I don't know what the complaints are about.
I guarantee you if we got an o-lineman today, people would be complaining that we didn't go for a defensive lineman. I'm echoing CLL's sentiment when I type that.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:28 pm
by fredp45
Jake -- I ain't impressed, all NFL players are younger than me...
I like this pick, I'm still upset we didn't give up a 5th rounder for Jared Gaither a few years back... The Ravens got a solid RT for a lousy 5th rounder.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:12 pm
by Kentucky_Jarmon_Fan
I am a season ticket holder at UK and obviously a huge Jarmon fan.
I just want to let you guys know that you drafted an incredible person. He's smart, extremely active in the community, a great student, and a hard worker. We UK fans are going to miss him but are extremely happy that he got drafted and gets an opportunity to play in the NFL.
Most UK fans think, while Jarmon made a mistake, that he really stepped up and made a mature decision to own up to it and even have a press conference and face the media. His story was sad and I even cried during the PC.
You're getting a great player and a an even better person in your organization.
Best of luck.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:17 pm
by Fios
Kentucky_Jarmon_Fan wrote:I am a season ticket holder at UK and obviously a huge Jarmon fan.
I just want to let you guys know that you drafted an incredible person. He's smart, extremely active in the community, a great student, and a hard worker. We UK fans are going to miss him but are extremely happy that he got drafted and gets an opportunity to play in the NFL.
Most UK fans think, while Jarmon made a mistake, that he really stepped up and made a mature decision to own up to it and even have a press conference and face the media. His story was sad and I even cried during the PC.
You're getting a great player and a an even better person in your organization.
Best of luck.
Thanks for stopping by and weighing in
... glad to hear he owned up to any potential character issues, I'm excited to see what he can do for the Redskins, I really like the pick.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:48 pm
by Wahoo McDaniels
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Solid pick. Good to see us trying to compete with the winning formula of the Giants. Let's keep bolstering this defensive line and get this pass rush where it needs to be.
I'm sure that next years 1st and possibly 2nd round will go to the offense.
Agreed. I really like this kid. I grew up in Kentucky and have followed UK sports as a result. I was really impressed by his press conference in which he owned up to the mistake. Oh yeah, and the kid can play football.
Look at it this way. It was inevitable that we were going to use the 3rd round pick for too long and likely that we would probably use it on a bust like Trung Canidate, Chad Morton, John Hall or Matt Bowen.
Jarmon has already produced as much as this group...and he hasn't even made it onto the field yet!
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:55 pm
by SkinsFreak
Chris Luva Luva wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:We also have Wilson and Orakpo who can and probably will see time on the defensive line.
Buzzbee is an end, btw. That doesn't count Jackson who looked pretty good last year and all the other bodies we've picked up this off-season.
Orakpo...at the moment is a LB.
Wilson, isn't he too light to play DE full-time?
Buzzbee, dude he's not starting for anyboy. C'mon now.
This is solid DEPTH. They appear to be addressing d-line moreso than o-line, big deal. Let's not forget that we get Edwin Williams, Will Montgomery, the Guard from last year. Mike Williams, Heyer.
We have bodies.
Just as you disqualiied D lineman, you can't be sure that all those o-lineman will make it, either. I simply want to focus next year's draft on the offense, particularly the line...and with this 3rd coming form the '10 draft, the offense has already lost a good pick to the defense.
That #4 rated defense didn't and doesn't need as much help as the offense, but we continue to bolster it. I know defense wins championships, but there's a little * there that says the offense has to have a pulse.
To be quite honest with you, I think it was smart to pick on the d this offseason.
I think that the oline will be fine and will an improved passing attack it'll equate to less wear/tear and less mileage.
I have to agree with you, Chris. The coaches are well aware of what they have right now and what positions are of concern. So this pick tells me quite a few things. They've now been through all the OTA's, mini-camps and an entire offseason and have evaluated all positions. If they felt any doubt or concern at this point with regard to the o-line, they'd be drafting or signing o-line guys. So I give the benefit of the doubt to the coaching staff. They've already brought in several players to compete and to bolster the o-line and must fell good about what they've seen. Otherwise, they'd be going after o-line players.
This pick also tells me that Orakpo must be looking pretty good at LB thus far. On passing downs, the prospect of Jarmon rushing the passer from the DE position and Orakpo also rushing off the edge, similar to what Marcus Washington did, along with Haynesworth pushing up the middle and Carter on the other side... that sounds like a pass rush to be reckoned with. The FO has taken a d-line from last year, which was a position of weakness, and quickly upgraded that unit to a position of strength and potentially a core of dominance.
This pick also tells me the FO is looking forward and planning for the future. They'll have a player in place when the day arrives that Daniels, Wynn and even Carter, eventually, are gone. As CLL said earlier in this thread, this move by our FO is similar to the effective and strategic approach the Giants have used to make their d-line, and their entire defense, a dominating unit. More proof our FO is taking a new approach, and a solid approach at that.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:22 pm
by Gibbs4Life
Don't forget Rob Jackson.
I like the move. We continue to stack our defense, Snyder mentioned in a press conf. that there are more ways to win a championship than having a great QB, and the best of which is a dominate D. This guy was rated the best d lineman in the supplemental. I love that we started this offseason with Albert and then just continued to solidify the D and now the Dline doesn't look weak at all. Next year 1st and 2nd rounders go on Olineman and we're stacked.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:23 am
by VetSkinsFan
I'm not saying I don't like what they did, but in the context of the 'skins, we sputtered in the 2nd 1/2 of the year. One of the reasons is the O-line, all above 30, appeared to not perform as they did the first half of the season.
I know I have been a proponent of watching to see how the FO's plan unfolds, and I hope I am wrong, but it just seems as if the FO is still focused on the D, which was our strength.
many of us were upset after JT didn't work out for us and we were without production and a 2nd round pick. I just hope this is not a repeat. And I supported picking JT up under the circumstances we had, so there's no need to defend that initiall reasoning...I was on board with reservation at the time.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:30 am
by langleyparkjoe
I know this is very dumb of me but what exactly is a supplemental draft?
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:23 am
by Jake
VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm not saying I don't like what they did, but in the context of the 'skins, we sputtered in the 2nd 1/2 of the year. One of the reasons is the O-line, all above 30, appeared to not perform as they did the first half of the season.
I know I have been a proponent of watching to see how the FO's plan unfolds, and I hope I am wrong, but it just seems as if the FO is still focused on the D, which was our strength.
We need a pass rush as well and obviously the only offensive lineman available in the supplemental draft wasn't good enough to be drafted or even signed at this point.
The offensive line woes of the second half of last year have nothing to do with the supplemental draft from yesterday. The team saw the opportunity to address a need for the second time in the same offseason and people think they've ignored another big need on the other side of the ball.
They're not, though. I'm sure if they thought there was a free agent offensive lineman available that was talented enough to be on the team he would have been here by now.
People keep saying "get younger on o-line because our o-line is old" and they do that by getting young players the past couple of seasons and now people are saying that we don't have any depth on the o-line because they're all so young and raw. Well, that's part of the maturation process and learning curve to becoming a successful o-lineman. It takes a period of time.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:58 am
by VetSkinsFan
The only point that I am tryin to make is that we could have used that 3rd rounder for an interior lineman in the 2010 draft...where many people believe above average interior lineman can be found.
I am NOT trying to say we should have instead burnt that 3rd round in the supplemental draft on an offensive lineman INSTEAD OF the defensive lineman we drafted. I am saying we should have SAVED the 3rd round for hte 2010 draft to address possibly the offensive line.
I will say that I know nothing about this guy Jarmon and maybe he will pan out. As of right now, I continue to feel that we have more pressing needs than another DE.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:18 pm
by Countertrey
I'm good with this pick. Keeping in mind that, while I'd love to see us magically find more players to bolster the O-line, I also know that a dominant defense makes for a better offense.
We are watching the construction of what may become one of the feared defenses of the league.
I predict a tremendous improvement on the + side of turnovers, as well as a substantial improvement in overall field position, and a resulting increase in the number of quality offensive opportunities. That will turn into points, even if the offense does not improve much.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:42 pm
by Jake
VetSkinsFan wrote:The only point that I am tryin to make is that we could have used that 3rd rounder for an interior lineman in the 2010 draft...where many people believe above average interior lineman can be found.
I am NOT trying to say we should have instead burnt that 3rd round in the supplemental draft on an offensive lineman INSTEAD OF the defensive lineman we drafted. I am saying we should have SAVED the 3rd round for hte 2010 draft to address possibly the offensive line.
I will say that I know nothing about this guy Jarmon and maybe he will pan out. As of right now, I continue to feel that we have more pressing needs than another DE.
Understood. And my point is that we would still have to wait a whole year to get that lineman you want so why not help out in an important area THIS season?
Apparently Jarmon would have gone in the second round... maybe first next year if we didn't get him now so in draft terms, we got a steal.
The Redskins reportedly beat five teams to the punch by using a third-round claim on Kentucky DE Jeremy Jarmon in the supplemental draft.
According to NFL Insider Adam Schefter, the Eagles, Bucs, Saints, Lions and Patriots all put in fourth-round claims. The Redskins did their homework and had Jarmon's value pegged accurately.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... FL&id=5481
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:48 pm
by Deadskins
Jake wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:The only point that I am tryin to make is that we could have used that 3rd rounder for an interior lineman in the 2010 draft...where many people believe above average interior lineman can be found.
I am NOT trying to say we should have instead burnt that 3rd round in the supplemental draft on an offensive lineman INSTEAD OF the defensive lineman we drafted. I am saying we should have SAVED the 3rd round for hte 2010 draft to address possibly the offensive line.
I will say that I know nothing about this guy Jarmon and maybe he will pan out. As of right now, I continue to feel that we have more pressing needs than another DE.
Understood. And my point is that we would still have to wait a whole year to get that lineman you want so why not help out in an important area THIS season?
Apparently Jarmon would have gone in the second round... maybe first next year if we didn't get him now so in draft terms, we got a steal.
The Redskins reportedly beat five teams to the punch by using a third-round claim on Kentucky DE Jeremy Jarmon in the supplemental draft.
According to NFL Insider Adam Schefter, the Eagles, Bucs, Saints, Lions and Patriots all put in fourth-round claims. The Redskins did their homework and had Jarmon's value pegged accurately.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... FL&id=5481
And there are other ways of aquiring offensive talent next year other than just the draft.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:53 pm
by TincoSkin
Countertrey wrote:I'm good with this pick. Keeping in mind that, while I'd love to see us magically find more players to bolster the O-line, I also know that a dominant defense makes for a better offense.
We are watching the construction of what may become one of the feared defenses of the league.
I predict a tremendous improvement on the + side of turnovers, as well as a substantial improvement in overall field position, and a resulting increase in the number of quality offensive opportunities. That will turn into points, even if the offense does not improve much.
very true. i couldnt agree more. in addition, if we can keep this D squad together for a couple years and build a more robust O in the meantime, we will be scary in two years and even better in zorns forth year as head coach.
a lot of coaches when they take over an organization have a three four or five year plan to bring the team to a superbowl. maybe zorn spent his first year grooming JC, making sure he protects the ball and plays sound fundementals and relying on what he inherited. this year he is building a D that is superbowl worthy and next year we will address all of the holes in our O like a line and a prototypical wide out.
hear me well. zorn is in part two of his three year building plan. we are playoff bound with the D we have created. after next years offseason we will have created an O to go with our D. personally i cant wait!
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:11 pm
by Cappster
At least the Skins addressed one of the needs most of us have been belly aching about for years and that is the defensive line. They obviously worked hard this off season to bring in guys that should help get to the quarterback and provide depth.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:39 pm
by redskins14ru
Jake wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:The only point that I am tryin to make is that we could have used that 3rd rounder for an interior lineman in the 2010 draft...where many people believe above average interior lineman can be found.
I am NOT trying to say we should have instead burnt that 3rd round in the supplemental draft on an offensive lineman INSTEAD OF the defensive lineman we drafted. I am saying we should have SAVED the 3rd round for hte 2010 draft to address possibly the offensive line.
I will say that I know nothing about this guy Jarmon and maybe he will pan out. As of right now, I continue to feel that we have more pressing needs than another DE.
Understood. And my point is that we would still have to wait a whole year to get that lineman you want so why not help out in an important area THIS season?
Apparently Jarmon would have gone in the second round... maybe first next year if we didn't get him now so in draft terms, we got a steal.
The Redskins reportedly beat five teams to the punch by using a third-round claim on Kentucky DE Jeremy Jarmon in the supplemental draft.
According to NFL Insider Adam Schefter, the Eagles, Bucs, Saints, Lions and Patriots all put in fourth-round claims. The Redskins did their homework and had Jarmon's value pegged accurately.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... _main.aspx?
sport=NFL&id=5481
They not only picked someone up he has great size and and will get in there well with Rob Jackson to insure the end of the D line for a few years
here another link
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/f ... ref=si_nfl
There are alot of articles out about this pick not much to say about the injury or the suspension.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:04 pm
by redskins14ru
VetSkinsFan wrote:
The only point that I am tryin to make is that we could have used that 3rd rounder for an interior lineman in the 2010 draft...where many people believe above average interior lineman can be found.
I am NOT trying to say we should have instead burnt that 3rd round in the supplemental draft on an offensive lineman INSTEAD OF the defensive lineman we drafted. I am saying we should have SAVED the 3rd round for hte 2010 draft to address possibly the offensive line.
I will say that I know nothing about this guy Jarmon and maybe he will pan out. As of right now, I continue to feel that we have more pressing needs than another DE.
2010 will be the year to get an Olineman in the 2nd round or the 4th. Given that Danny and Vinny are indeed incharge of the 1rst round pick. Right now the skins are have been building a defense Greg Blache is solid.
I have read too much since the second half of the season stating...."Zorns the problem in DC" or things like "JC is not getting it done" and as VEt stated the oline is thin and needs revamped...... I personally think that a third round olineman in 2010 is not the answer.
I think we all agreed so long as we did get Cutler in the off season that apparently he was the answer to the offense, and thats with the olineman we currently have. I know that this is Daniel Snyders show but I would have to agree that in order to ride this thing out and to properly assess the offense, wheather it be a new quaterback a coach or an olineman thats going to impact the team in a huge way. We have to roll the dice and give the current group of guys the chance to get back out there next year and see what happens. That puts an awful lot on the shoulders of the Wideouts and we all know # 26 will be show up. Either way the skins have a solid defense for a few years.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:17 pm
by Irn-Bru
langleyparkjoe wrote:I know this is very dumb of me but what exactly is a supplemental draft?
I didn't know either until I looked it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft# ... ntal_DraftSupplemental Draft
In late summer, the NFL also holds a Supplemental Draft to accommodate players who did not enter the regular draft because they thought they still had academic eligibility to play college football. Draft order is determined by a weighted system that is divided into three groupings. First come the teams that had six or fewer wins last season, followed by non-playoff teams that had more than six wins, followed by the 12 playoff teams. In the supplemental draft, a team is not required to use any picks. Instead, if a team wants a player in the supplemental draft, they submit a "bid" to the Commissioner with the round they would pick that player. If no other team places a bid on that player at an earlier spot, the team is awarded the player and has to give up an equivalent pick in the following year's draft. (For example, FS Paul Oliver was taken by the San Diego Chargers in the fourth round of the Supplemental Draft in 2007; thus, in the 2008 NFL Draft, the Chargers forfeited a fourth-round pick.)
The 1985 Supplemental Draft was particularly controversial. Bernie Kosar of the University of Miami earned his academic degree a year early but did not enter the regular draft that year. Rather than finish his eligibility at Miami, he entered into talks with his favorite team, the Cleveland Browns. They advised Kosar to delay his professional eligibility until after the regular draft. They then traded for the right to choose first in the Supplemental Draft. This angered many clubs, notably the Minnesota Vikings and New York Giants, who had expressed interest in choosing him in that season's regular draft. Many of today's Supplemental Draft rules aim at preventing a recurrence of this incident.
As of 2007, players who enter the Supplemental Draft usually are graded as players who should be drafted at a later round, or who have college eligibility problems (poor academic or discipline issues). Only 38 players have been taken since the NFL instituted the Supplemental Draft in 1977.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:51 pm
by SkinsFreak
Cappster wrote:At least the Skins addressed one of the needs most of us have been belly aching about for years and that is the defensive line. They obviously worked hard this off season to bring in guys that should help get to the quarterback and provide depth.
I agree, Cappster. Getting Jarmon upgrades a pass rush that ranked
last in the NFC in 2008 with only 24 sacks. I specifically remember last years draft when many around here bitched to no end about not addressing the d-line. We've done that this year. Who's to say we won't do that with the o-line next year?
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:53 pm
by redskins14ru
your right I believe cambell will have a good year, and that leaves plenty of oppurtunity to draft a lineman in the first round.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:10 pm
by Warmother
I love the pick. You can never have to many linemen. Next year if we had drafted Jarmon on the third round and an O-lineman on the second we would all have been thrilled.
Well we get our third rounder a year early now.
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:27 am
by redskins14ru
yup my thoughts exactly warmother, I coud not agree more. I am also hopeful that it is not fletchers last season.... not to bring up depth at linebacker or anything or how to replace fletcher one day, Jarmom is noted as a sure tacker and gets after the ball carrier. I'm optimistc he will do well hail to the skins ... man i love this board
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:56 pm
by SkinsFreak
Jake wrote:Apparently Jarmon would have gone in the second round... maybe first next year if we didn't get him now so in draft terms, we got a steal.
The Redskins reportedly beat five teams to the punch by using a third-round claim on Kentucky DE Jeremy Jarmon in the supplemental draft.
According to NFL Insider Adam Schefter, the Eagles, Bucs, Saints, Lions and Patriots all put in fourth-round claims. The Redskins did their homework and had Jarmon's value pegged accurately.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... FL&id=5481
I recalled you had said this. Well, even our boy
Len Pastabelly, over at that 4-letter network, also reported that NFL scouts thought Jarmon would most likely go in the 2nd round of next years draft. So I agree, we may have gotten a steal in landing Jarmon.
In his three college seasons, Jarmon posted 130 tackles, 30 tackles for losses, 17½ sacks, four forced fumbles and four recoveries. An honorable mention All-SEC player last season, Jarmon recorded 13 sacks in 2007, but dropped off to just 4½ sacks in 2008. He started 31 games at Kentucky, and, on the plus side, Jarmon has already graduated with a degree in political science.
Many scouts agree that Jarmon probably would have been a second-round prospect next April had he played his final season for the Wildcats. He likely will be a situational player this season, learning from fellow rookie Orakpo and veteran ends Phillip Daniels and Andre Carter.
And folks shouldn't forget, Jarmon played in the SEC against some of the best OT's, QB's and RB's in college football. Although Jarmon only produced 4.5 sacks last year, many college football experts familiar with Kentucky football said Jarmon was double-teamed and consistently game-planned for as a legitimate threat, primarily due to his sophomore campaign in which Jarmon recorded 13 sacks... in the SEC.
And as
Rich Tandler points out, the selection of Jarmon is succession planning and forward thinking on the part of the Redskins brain trust, something they've been criticized for in the past.
Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:54 am
by ChocolateMilk
I think this was actually a very good pick up for our team. People on this board always complain about the incompetency of our FO and when they go and do something intellegent like this, they complain even more. I don't get it. We basically got one of the better DEs for next years draft a year early for only a 3rd rounder. How can you not be happy about that?