R.I.P. to the King of Pop.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:35 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:I think it would be a tough decision from the perspective that attorney fees could be astronomical and the potential damage to the future career could be costly as well... meaning if he didn't offer a settlement and went the distance in a long, drawn out trial, would this have ultimately cost him $20 million anyway?

Attorney fees would be high, but not anywhere close to that high. Even in a highly technical case (which a criminal defense/statutory rape case is not), such as a patent case, attorneys fees and expert fees routinely run 1.5 million per side. That's a far cry from the 20 million settlement. When you talk 20 million, you're not talking personal criminal defense; you're instead talking more about the complicated, fraud-on-the-government, bet-the-company type litigation.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:48 pm

So apparently One of the kids thAt MJ alledegdly felt up said that it was a scam. I beleive it was the case from 1993. No confirmation on that yet.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:22 pm

<been out all day>

I realize that the amount was quite excessive, but has anything MJ done really been normal?

I also realize you're a lawyer CT (and I still like you, anyway ROTFALMAO

) but that's just my take on it. Yes, your theory is as plausible (or maybe even moreso) than mine, but I am not going to have my last thoughts of MJ negative on something that was never proven without a doubt. Call it blind optimism or whatever else, but he's getting an "*" in my memories. With the abuse and turmoil in his life, we'll never know what was in his head.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:45 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:I also realize you're a lawyer CT (and I still like you, anyway )

Time for your medication, my friend!

(1) You called me CT; and
(2) You like a lawyer.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:44 am

PulpExposure wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:I also realize you're a lawyer CT (and I still like you, anyway )

Time for your medication, my friend!

NOOOOO! That's what killed Little Michael! O:)

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:45 am

PulpExposure wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:I also realize you're a lawyer CT (and I still like you, anyway )

Time for your medication, my friend!

(1) You called me CT; and
(2) You like a lawyer.

damn it, you know what I meant... -drinking

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:56 pm

1: I am not a lawyer.

2:

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:08 pm

I feel like a part of my youth is now dead. In fact that is exactly what happened for many Americans probably most. Who does not have a memory of Michael Jackson? I mean everyone does.

I try to remember the positive Michael Jackson. The younger one. I reserve judgement on him since he did so much good before all the scandals.
Michael Jackson gave hundreds of millions to charitys over the years.

My biggest and most special moment was in 1987. I was in 1st or second grade. In this year Ronald Reagen made a special annoucement to all the schools in America. So all the Schools in America gathered in an assembly in the morning to watch Ronald Reagen make an annoucement and speak to all of America and the rest of the world. Then after that a performance of We are the world. With Michael Jackson and many other celebrities sang We are the world together with our elemantary and all the other schools across America. That was one moment that I will never forget.
For a few minutes I felt like I was connected to the whole entire planet. I could actually feel all the people across the world. That was a very special feeling I will never forget. Michael Jackson helped make that happen.

Michael Jackson also lit up an otherwise drab living room a couple times when I was a kid. I did not have cable television when I grew up. I came from a poor neighborhood or barrio. Gangs and drugs were all around me. Michael Jackson was a positive light for most of his life. I just say Thank You Michael Jackson for the good he did do.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:44 pm

tcwest10 wrote:I still have the poster. My mother never let me put it up on the wall, and it's still unwrapped in the sleeve.
As for the other 'entertainer', I'm a father of five. 'nuff said.

I used to go to a friend's house just to see her poster on his bedroom wall. :lol:

As far as the moon walker is concerned, rest in peace for the good causes that he supported but I knew a hell of a lot of other less popular but better people serving in the US and abroad that received no acknlowledgement whatsoever while sacrificing their lives for much better causes.

Entertainment popularity stardom mean nothing to me.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:27 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
tcwest10 wrote:I still have the poster. My mother never let me put it up on the wall, and it's still unwrapped in the sleeve.
As for the other 'entertainer', I'm a father of five. 'nuff said.

I used to go to a friend's house just to see her poster on his bedroom wall.

As far as the moon walker is concerned, rest in peace for the good causes that he supported but I knew a hell of a lot of other less popular but better people serving in the US and abroad that received no acknlowledgement whatsoever while sacrificing their lives for much better causes.

Entertainment popularity stardom mean nothing to me.

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say, but couldn't... I'm in your debt.

I knew one or two such men... and know that some wore the red Maple Leaf.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:31 pm

Why do people trivialize one person or subject by bringing a comparable subject into comparison. Want to talk about them? Start a new thread. Don't trivialize Farrah or Michael for what they've done or been through. We've established he's no saint, but the man's passed on. At least give that respect.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:13 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:Why do people trivialize one person or subject by bringing a comparable subject into comparison. Want to talk about them? Start a new thread. Don't trivialize Farrah or Michael for what they've done or been through. We've established he's no saint, but the man's passed on. At least give that respect.

Are you serious? Proportion, my man. Proportion.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:10 am

Countertrey wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:Why do people trivialize one person or subject by bringing a comparable subject into comparison. Want to talk about them? Start a new thread. Don't trivialize Farrah or Michael for what they've done or been through. We've established he's no saint, but the man's passed on. At least give that respect.

Are you serious? Proportion, my man. Proportion.

You should know I wouldn't take away from these unrecognized heroes, but take it to their own thread, which they more than deserve.

Why do they have to be brought in to a discussion and debate about an entertainer, one of the most influential entertainers of the late 20th century? Why can't a thread entitled R.I.P. to the King of Pop be just that, about the King of Pop?

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:05 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
tcwest10 wrote:I still have the poster. My mother never let me put it up on the wall, and it's still unwrapped in the sleeve.
As for the other 'entertainer', I'm a father of five. 'nuff said.

I used to go to a friend's house just to see her poster on his bedroom wall.

As far as the moon walker is concerned, rest in peace for the good causes that he supported but I knew a hell of a lot of other less popular but better people serving in the US and abroad that received no acknlowledgement whatsoever while sacrificing their lives for much better causes.

Entertainment popularity stardom mean nothing to me.

Who are you to say whats a better cause? That is such a ridiculous statement. Michael gave his time and money to many causes. He wrote songs about changing the world. Many of his hits are aimed towards helping mankind.

Below are a list of Charities and causes Michael Jackson has donated his time and money too.

# AIDS Project L.A.
# American Cancer Society
# Angel Food
# Big Brothers of Greater Los Angeles
# BMI Foundation, Inc.
# Brotherhood Crusade
# Brothman Burn Center
# Camp Ronald McDonald
# Childhelp U.S.A.
# Children's Institute International
# Cities and Schools Scholarship Fund
# Community Youth Sports & Arts Foundation
# Congressional Black Caucus (CBC)
# Dakar Foundation
# Dreamstreet Kids
# Dreams Come True Charity
# Elizabeth Taylor Aids Foundation
# Juvenile Diabetes Foundation
# Love Match
# Make-A-Wish Foundation
# Minority Aids Project
# Motown Museum
# NAACP
# National Rainbow Coalition
# Rotary Club of Australia
# Society of Singers
# Starlight Foundation
# The Carter Center's Atlanta Project
# The Sickle Cell Research Foundation
# Transafrica
# United Negro College Fund (UNCF)
# United Negro College Fund Ladder's of Hope
# Volunteers of America
# Watts Summer Festival
# Wish Granting
# YMCA - 28th Street/Crenshaw

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:16 am

Read my post again before you open your big keyboards once more.
:idea:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:29 pm

HEROHAMO wrote:Who are you to say whats a better cause? That is such a ridiculous statement.

Surely we can agree that some causes are better than others, right? I don't think it's beyond my reach to evaluate (to some degree) what good an organization is doing in the world. And so also are RiC and you capable of making those kinds of judgments.

MJ did contribute to many causes, but he got / gets plenty of credit for it (and made a hell of a lot of money in the process). I think RiC is just pointing out that some people make greater sacrifices, without any of the credit and/or money that others might enjoy in the process.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:33 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:I think RiC is just pointing out that some people make greater sacrifices, without any of the credit and/or money that others might enjoy in the process.

But with all do respect, while true, that's not what this thread is about. A human being has died and this thread is about giving respect for the loss of a great icon. No one is saying military soldiers that give up their lives is any less important or heroic, but this thread is about the recognition of MJ's death. If RiC isn't phased by the death of an entertainer, fine, but don't bring soldiers into it and attempt to make others feel inferior because they morn the death of a music legend. There is a time and a place to give respect for all kinds of heroism, but making a comparison like that when people are morning one death seems untimely and disingenuous, to me anyway. I guess we can't morn any death because a soldier lost his life and his contributions are greater. We all love and respect what are military does for our freedoms, but a loss of any life is a loss period... and people have the right to morn without being forced to draw heroism comparisons. Just saying...

I was never a huge MJ fan and never bought his albums, although like most, I'm very familiar with his music due to radio and MTV. But I recognize his huge and unmatched accomplishments, as well as the incredible influences he's had on the music industry even to date. Last week MJ wasn't even a thought. Now that he's dead, it's very sad and it's touched many millions of people far and wide. My two daughters, aged 5 and 7, didn't even know who MJ was before this past weekend, yet they listened to his music all weekend long, the videos played on VH1 and MTV, and you could see the enthusiasm in these girls listening to his music. It's hard to describe, but my girls immediately grasped the power of MJ's music. They danced all weekend long and are now in love with the guy. It was surreal to watch, to be honest.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:37 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I think RiC is just pointing out that some people make greater sacrifices, without any of the credit and/or money that others might enjoy in the process.

But with all do respect, while true, that's not what this thread is about. A human being has died and this thread is about giving respect for the loss of a great icon. No one is saying military soldiers that give up their lives is any less important or heroic, but this thread is about the recognition of MJ's death.

Thank you,

The thread creator.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:53 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:But with all do respect, while true, that's not what this thread is about. A human being has died and this thread is about giving respect for the loss of a great icon. No one is saying military soldiers that give up their lives is any less important or heroic, but this thread is about the recognition of MJ's death. If RiC isn't phased by the death of an entertainer, fine, but don't bring soldiers into it and attempt to make others feel inferior because they morn the death of a music legend. There is a time and a place to give respect for all kinds of heroism, but making a comparison like that when people are morning one death seems untimely and disingenuous, to me anyway. I guess we can't morn any death because a soldier lost his life and his contributions are greater. We all love and respect what are military does for our freedoms, but a loss of any life is a loss period... and people have the right to morn without being forced to draw heroism comparisons. Just saying...

While I can't speak for RiC, I did not have soldiers in mind, nor do I think that's who he was talking about. So I don't think it was the trump card of appealing to soldiers to belittle anyone else.

Is there room, in a thread dedicated to a pop star, to voice the idea that status brought about by entertainment—and especially by celebrity-charity work—is overrated? I think so; actually, it strikes me as apropos in this case. Of course, others disagree with that view. And that's OK with me: to each his own.

Edit: Or, as CT put it: "Proportion, my man. Proportion."

But I recognize his huge and unmatched accomplishments, as well as the incredible influences he's had on the music industry even to date. Last week MJ wasn't even a thought. Now that he's dead, it's very sad and it's touched many millions of people far and wide. My two daughters, aged 5 and 7, didn't even know who MJ was before this past weekend, yet they listened to his music all weekend long, the videos played on VH1 and MTV, and you could see the enthusiasm in these girls listening to his music. It's hard to describe, but my girls immediately grasped the power of MJ's music. They danced all weekend long and are now in love with the guy. It was surreal to watch, to be honest.

I didn't intend to get in the way of reflections like this—I have no problem with them—so I'll step back once again.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:40 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:But with all do respect, while true, that's not what this thread is about. A human being has died and this thread is about giving respect for the loss of a great icon. No one is saying military soldiers that give up their lives is any less important or heroic, but this thread is about the recognition of MJ's death. If RiC isn't phased by the death of an entertainer, fine, but don't bring soldiers into it and attempt to make others feel inferior because they morn the death of a music legend. There is a time and a place to give respect for all kinds of heroism, but making a comparison like that when people are morning one death seems untimely and disingenuous, to me anyway. I guess we can't morn any death because a soldier lost his life and his contributions are greater. We all love and respect what are military does for our freedoms, but a loss of any life is a loss period... and people have the right to morn without being forced to draw heroism comparisons. Just saying...

While I can't speak for RiC, I did not have soldiers in mind, nor do I think that's who he was talking about. So I don't think it was the trump card of appealing to soldiers to belittle anyone else.

Is there room, in a thread dedicated to a pop star, to voice the idea that status brought about by entertainment—and especially by celebrity-charity work—is overrated? I think so; actually, it strikes me as apropos in this case. Of course, others disagree with that view. And that's OK with me: to each his own.

Well... I used the word soldier because that's how I interpreted his post when he said... "people serving in the US and abroad that received no acknlowledgement whatsoever while sacrificing their lives for much better causes." I think CT also interpreted it that way when he said... "I knew one or two such men... and know that some wore the red Maple Leaf."

While I agree with both, I just don't think it has a place in this thread. I believe that VetSkinsFan is/was in the military and even he was somewhat appalled by RiC's remarks in this thread, as was the thread creator. A human being has died, why belittle it by trivializing his lifes work?

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:16 pm

Once again, my original post speaks for my views on this matter.

Note that while recognition is given there to the causes he supported, worldwide public notoriety in the entertainment industry does not make better people than many others, not only in the military, who make enormous sacrifices with no reward, recognition or economic benefit whatsoever.

The critocism is not pointed at Michael Jackson. The criticism is pointed at a world society which has its values and priorities screwed up big time to plece greater recognition on fame and entertainment than much higher sacrifices and service. This is an axiologic aberration.

But you guys are the moderators. You decide among yourselves whether this material belongs in this thread or not. Whatever the outcome, I have nothing else to say on this subject.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:04 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:The critocism is not pointed at Michael Jackson. The criticism is pointed at a world society which has its values and priorities screwed up big time to plece greater recognition on fame and entertainment than much higher sacrifices and service. This is an axiologic aberration.

No one here has said that, whatsoever. Military deaths are reported and widely recognized all the time and places like Arlington Cemetery draw numerous visitors every year. However, just a few days ago, a hugely popular and probably the most recognized musician on the planet has passed away - and folks have the right to mourn that individual without being belittled because someone like you allege their values are screwed up because they want to mourn this individual... at this time. While I agree with you about this to a degree, save that argument for another day, not while folks are in mourning.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I have nothing else to say on this subject.

Thank you. I believe folks have the right to post their thoughts on the matter without being criticized or belittled for recognizing the significance of this particular tragic death.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:43 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:hile I agree with both, I just don't think it has a place in this thread. I believe that VetSkinsFan is/was in the military and even he was somewhat appalled by RiC's remarks in this thread, as was the thread creator. A human being has died, why belittle it by trivializing his lifes work?

Redskin in Canada wrote:But you guys are the moderators. You decide among yourselves whether this material belongs in this thread or not. Whatever the outcome, I have nothing else to say on this subject.

I need to take a mod moment and state clearly that no rules have been broken and that this is NOT an official 'moderator' discussion just because several staff members are involved. In times past people have assumed that the participation of several mods means that the book is being thrown at someone—this is not the case.

The mods at THN take their role seriously and we always strive to make it very clear when we are acting in an official capacity.

All comments within the rules are always welcome, including criticisms, and also criticisms of criticisms. (And so on.)

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:26 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
tcwest10 wrote:I still have the poster. My mother never let me put it up on the wall, and it's still unwrapped in the sleeve.
As for the other 'entertainer', I'm a father of five. 'nuff said.

I used to go to a friend's house just to see her poster on his bedroom wall.

As far as the moon walker is concerned, rest in peace for the good causes that he supported but I knew a hell of a lot of other less popular but better people serving in the US and abroad that received no acknlowledgement whatsoever while sacrificing their lives for much better causes.

Entertainment popularity stardom mean nothing to me.

Your post is clearly understood.

You say to have known a hell of a lot of better people who were part of better causes.

What place does that have in a R.I.P to the King of Pop thread?

Would you say something like that at your own familiy members funeral or eulogy? No of course not.

For your information my best friend is serving in Iraq as we speak. My cousin died in Afghanistan. He died from friendly fire not the enemy.

How in the world does that take away from what Michael Jackson did for mankind?

Michael Jackson gave hundreds of millions of dollars. You want to compare that to one man giving his life for his country?

Lets say just one of those dollars Michael gave helped feed just one starving child? That helped save one life.

Lets just say one of Michaels songs inspired one person to change his life for the better? That helped saved one life.

Lets just say one scholarship that Michael helped make possible helped take one teenager to college to better that kids life? That helped better one persons life?

Lets just one dollar that Michael gave helped an HIV positive person live one more day. That helped one man.

Your statements are just plain stupid. You failed to give this thread real thought. Do your research before actually making comparisons about one mans good deeds to another mans.

You clearly have not done your homework.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:49 pm

HEROHAMO wrote:You clearly have not done your homework.

If you only knew some of the work I am involved in and the experiences I have had on the field, you would not write that.

But to each its own values and I appreciate your sentiment to grieve for arguably the most popular singer in modern times. Peace brother.