The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

frankcal20 wrote:I personally don't like this move. I have a feeling that he is going to go somewhere like SF or Houston and have a good few years. I wouldn't be shocked to see him in Jax either. Sure he's had a rough few years but he was injured. He's not injury prone. It's just he got hurt two years in a row. There were a lot of reports that said he had dropped weight and was in great shape. I just think that this team is aiming to get younger and this was the first step to do that.

Good luck Jon. I hope you find more success in the league.

I have the same fears also... But this isn't much different than if we had drafted a RT. I think that the team has been ready for some time to move on. They must feel pretty darned good about Heyer and Williams.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:I put Bridges there only because Williams is still way out of shape and everything I've read says they don't think Heyer is a starting player.

According to Williams he is now nearing his college weight and we're still a ways off from training camp. It's a bit unfair to say he's way out of shape and for him to lose the amount of weight that he has thus far says something about his mindset and work ethic.

I'm rooting for Williams as much as anybody. I really hope he comes in and can play well. It would be a steal to getting a quality starting guard off the street. I just didn't want to pencil him in as a starter until he actually shows something in practice.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4215277

Looks like Skins tried to talk him into retiring but he wanted to keep playing.

from PFT:

Skins Avoided $1 Million Roster Bonus By Cutting Jansen
Posted by Mike Florio on May 29, 2009, 2:06 p.m.
A league source tells us that, in addition to the $1.35 million base salary the Redskins won’t be paying to recently-cut tackle Jon Jansen, the team also is off the hook for a $1 million roster bonus.

The bonus would have been earned if Jansen had been on the roster as of July 1.

Jansen also was scheduled to earn a $150,000 workout bonus. Assuming he was on track to satisfy the required percentage of participation in offseason drills to trigger the payment, a grievance could be pursued, if the ‘Skins don’t pay him the money.

Jansen’s argument would be that he would have earned the bonus, that he substantially complied with his end of the bargain, and that he was prevented from getting to the goal by no action or fault of his own.

The move clears up a total of $2.35 million in cap space, but that amount will be offset by any bonus acceleration applicable to the final two years of his contract — 2010 and 2011.

I am getting confused here. Are people trying to pencil in Williams as a starter? If this is the case then this is a bigger gamble than Jon. If you are expecting him to make the team as a back up then yes I can see this. Who is our starter as of now? We really have none. OTAs are with pads off so who knows? Williams is still busy making weight and trying to get in playing shape. By playing shape I mean getting hit and technique and knowing the play book.

Kilmer72 wrote:I am getting confused here. Are people trying to pencil in Williams as a starter? If this is the case then this is a bigger gamble than Jon. If you are expecting him to make the team as a back up then yes I can see this. Who is our starter as of now? We really have none. OTAs are with pads off so who knows? Williams is still busy making weight and trying to get in playing shape. By playing shape I mean getting hit and technique and knowing the play book.

Heyer is the starter. I believe that they have faith that Williams will give him a strong run for the position in training camp.

SnyderSucks wrote:

lowtharofthehill wrote:yeah im a little shocked, I think it was supposed to cost us more to cut him than keep him. (Hopefully I am wrong about this)

It looks like cutting him will count $6.188 Million, while keeping him would have cost $3.413 million. So it eats an additional $2.775 million of the cap, if my numbers are right.

Jon's cap hit this was a little more than $5M while cutting him added almost $11M to the dead cap so the bottom line is this move cost just over $5.98M than it would to have kept him

SnyderSucks wrote:Got to wonder why they did this now. The only reason that makes any sense is if Jansen looked absolutely terrible. Even if Williams or Heyer looks fantastic, you keep Jansen for depth in case of injury during training camp.

They also have Bridges competing for the RT spot, if he loose out he'd be good depth with prior starting experience and he also plays Guard. With the two you mentioned that's three that's started in the past.

SnyderSucks wrote:They'll carry 9 or 10 linemen on the final roster. If you figure at least one player gets hurt during training camp, the only way this makes sense is if they have at least 11 players better than Jansen.

Not counting the Red Snapper they are now one lineman short of a dozen

SnyderSucks wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:It looks like cutting him will count $6.188 Million, while keeping him would have cost $3.413 million. So it eats an additional $2.775 million of the cap, if my numbers are right.

According to this, Jansen will cost just under $11 million in dead cap space this season.

Washington Post is reporting a cap hit of just over $6 million. $11 million makes no sense. When he signed in 2007, there was only a bonus of $5 million. They also bonused $4.25 Million last year. So there would be $3 million left from the originial bonus and $3.18 left on that. So $6.18 million. There is no scenario that shows total bonuses anywhere near $11 million - not sure where that number is coming from.

Might have something to do with the contract that you are speaking of was restructured last year

SnyderSucks wrote:So with that cut the O-Line is:

1st 2nd
Samuels Heyer
Dockery Rinehart
Rabach E. Williams (only other center on the roster)
Thomas Rinehart
Bridges M.Williams


So that's nine, with Batiste, Burley, Clark, Montgomery, and Riley fighting it out if they keep a tenth. Heyer, Bridges, and M.Williams battle it out for the starting RT. I put Bridges there only because Williams is still way out of shape and everything I've read says they don't think Heyer is a starting player.

We won't keep a 10th. W. Montgomery has played C. I read the the plan is to start Heyer at RT.

yupchagee wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:So with that cut the O-Line is:

1st 2nd
Samuels Heyer
Dockery Rinehart
Rabach E. Williams (only other center on the roster)
Thomas Rinehart
Bridges M.Williams


So that's nine, with Batiste, Burley, Clark, Montgomery, and Riley fighting it out if they keep a tenth. Heyer, Bridges, and M.Williams battle it out for the starting RT. I put Bridges there only because Williams is still way out of shape and everything I've read says they don't think Heyer is a starting player.

We won't keep a 10th. W. Montgomery has played C. I read the the plan is to start Heyer at RT.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bridges gets the spot, Heyer moves back to his original position as a backup to Chris and Williams backs up Bridges.

1niksder wrote:

Might have something to do with the contract that you are speaking of was restructured last year

But even with the restructure last year, he has only received a total of $9.25 million in bonuses, and they have already counted two years on the first bonus and one year on the second. The $6.18 million number has been reported in more than one place and fits right in with the reported contract.

The report that there is a roster bonus due July 1 and a workout bonus helps make sense of timing of this move.

Deadskins wrote:I don't see any reason to do that now, as opposed to at the end of training camp. And I think it's cheaper on the cap to keep him anyway.

to your point - I just heard on the radio (Pat Kirwin) that it actually will cost us more to cut him now than if we had waited - BUT that being said I feel that the coaches must know that he was not going to be able to be a big help at RT like the rumors that were spread around and many here thought.

Hopefully someone has an idea of who is going to play RT this year because I sure would not want to say we are a better team on the right side this year with Heyer, Bridges or Williams

Countertrey wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Wow! Maybe he requested it so he could try to hook on somewhere else.

I don't think so... this clearly indicates that it was a team decision...

"Though we have elected to move in another direction, we appreciate Jon’s commitment, leadership and dedication to the Redskins organization.”

Wow! I'm blown away. I can only imagine that the team is very impressed with Williams... or Heyer have made some sort of miraculous improvement.

From my experience here, I know that you're kidding - I just did not see any smiley faces

SnyderSucks wrote: ... the only way this makes sense is if they have at least 11 players better than Jansen.

now that is a reality check for many here who felt at least comfortable with our offensive line - especially as it looks right now

I am really hoping that someone has a plan to bring in someone for our offensive line like we did when we added Haynesworth to the # 4 ranked defense

these guys cannot be that stupid, can they

Levi Jones still available? it's a possibility but really, I like what Zorn said, he had Jon working at Tackle and Guard and Center and he just wanted to take that out of the mix to give the other younger guys reps. I hope he finds a home somewhere but if teams are willing to look at the tape of his last three years I'd be suprised if they would stay interested. Thank you Jon, your tenure here was very classy and we all appreciate it.

BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:Levi Jones still available? it's a possibility but really, I like what Zorn said, he had Jon working at Tackle and Guard and Center and he just wanted to take that out of the mix to give the other younger guys reps. I hope he finds a home somewhere but if teams are willing to look at the tape of his last three years I'd be suprised if they would stay interested. Thank you Jon, your tenure here was very classy and we all appreciate it.

If they look at his tape they'll see a RT that's still capable of starting when healthy. A desperate team like the Redskins will make a leap of faith if needed.

1niksder wrote:Jon's cap hit this was a little more than $5M while cutting him added almost $11M to the dead cap so the bottom line is this move cost just over $5.98M than it would to have kept him

I just can't get past this. How does this make sense?

If we had a lot of cap room to sign somebody to replace Jansen, I would understand, but we're up against the cap limit aren't we?

riggofan wrote:I just can't get past this. How does this make sense?
If we had a lot of cap room to sign somebody to replace Jansen, I would understand, but we're up against the cap limit aren't we?

1niksder knows these things a lot better than I but from what I remember, we have cut 3 of our top 10 recently in Taylor, Springs and now Jansen.
So, no. I do not think this has anything to do with cap issues.

Per Zorn's press conference, Snyder flew Jansen in on his private plane so that they could talk with him face to face about the release. Snyder gets a lot of credit for handling this the right way, in my book. It would have been much easier and cheaper to do it over the phone, or even just to tell his agent.

Jansen and his wife were flown in Snyder's plane from their Michigan offseason home to Redskins Park, where the 33-year-old lineman was offered the chance to retire as a Redskins player.

...

"My response was I would have hoped for a better chance at the OTAs and the minicamp and maybe some more reps," Jansen said in a telephone interview as he headed to the airport for the flight home. "I think that their mind was made up prior to that, and that's OK. I just wish it would have happened a little sooner. ... There would have been more jobs available, more money available."

The Redskins have three candidates to succeed Jansen at right tackle: third-year player Heyer and offseason signings Mike Williams and Jeremy Bridges.

Jansen, a second-round pick from Michigan in 1999, had two years remaining on a five-year, $23 million contract extension he signed in 2007. He said his agent has already heard from several teams.

"I'm not concerned about having a job," Jansen said. "I know I'll be able to land on my feet somewhere."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4215277

Sounds like Snyder flew him in, cut him, and then he had to get his own flight back home. The Danny Dumpster. The Snyder Smackdown.


I wish he had retired a Redskin. If he does get picked up, I hope it's by an AFC team.

He probably stays in our division.

Gibbs4Life wrote:He probably stays in our division.

Dallas will pick him up later today

SnyderSucks wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Might have something to do with the contract that you are speaking of was restructured last year

But even with the restructure last year, he has only received a total of $9.25 million in bonuses, and they have already counted two years on the first bonus and one year on the second. The $6.18 million number has been reported in more than one place and fits right in with the reported contract.

He got his money but when he signed his new deal but that money was spread out over the duration of the contract.

SnyderSucks wrote:The report that there is a roster bonus due July 1 and a workout bonus helps make sense of timing of this move.

I can debate this all day but I don't have time so I'll bail out all your sources, you can go with their numbers ($6.18M), if you want just remember what I posted earlier (without rounding off)....

This years cap hit was $5.016M, the Dead Cap is $10.998M that's $$5.982M more. If you take "your" $6.188M and subtract the cap savings for him not receiving this years bonus money (that wasn't part of the $10M guaranteed in 2007) or about $.150M (more likely $.172M) you're at right around $5.9M/$6.0M.

In other words your "sources" should be reporting reporting that Jansen adds a additional $6.188M to the cap (Really $5,98M), and you could call it accurate. I guessthree words take a long time when typing with one finger on each hand when you want to be the first to put the numbers out or yuo have a deadline

riggofan wrote:

1niksder wrote:Jon's cap hit this was a little more than $5M while cutting him added almost $11M to the dead cap so the bottom line is this move cost just over $5.98M than it would to have kept him

I just can't get past this. How does this make sense?

If we had a lot of cap room to sign somebody to replace Jansen, I would understand, but we're up against the cap limit aren't we?

They must think his replacement is already on the roster and with the extra $997,000 added to the cap this month it was just time.

I hear this was the first of Jim Zorn moves that might some on this board... I hope it's true

Going way back to the initial post, I'll keep the name. I'm still a Jansen Fan. If he stays in the division, I'll put that on hiatus until he doesn't and then he will hopefully take the deal to retire as a Redskin and I can take it off hold. He's given a lot to this organization through some pretty tough times, and for that I'm grateful.

I'm still trying to understand how, considering offensive line is one of our biggest weaknesses, cutting a leader on our offensive line is beneficial to us when camp rolls around. We now have even less depth and reliability and based on skimming through this thread regarding money, have screwed ourselves in that regard, too.

Another brilliant move.