The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

PulpExposure wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:Just look at what he did to poor Greg Williams? A little bit of sour grapes and he's defensive coordinator in Jacksonville. Now he's unemployed!

I guess being the defensive coordinator of the Saints is pretty close to a state of unemployment...it's just a deferred state.

I have heard that, because of Williams, the Saints defense combined with their offense is going to make for a pretty good team down there in LA

I am not as anti Snyder, as an owner, as many here perceive and I certainly do not think of him as a bad owner. I think he made some mistakes early but am now willing to think these were more his ignorance of how to build a team. I think that Snyder thought that you could add a superstar (or a great talent) and it would make the team better - in most cases in the NFL, that will not translate into a better team and I think that is where Snyder is right now.

I agree that the Taylor acquisition did not work out but we were in a desperate bind - hindsight is 20/20 but we had to do something - while Taylor cost us dearly, the fact is that the defense was not the reason we were not as good a team as we all want here

I happen to think that Gibbs and time have helped Snyder see the light a little and I think that Cerrato has been given the opportunity to make this team better and if that works out then I will be the first to say I was wrong about Cerrato

Snyder is staying, that is reality and hopefully this year is a turning point for a lot of people within this franchise

Snyder will look very different if this team shows it just needs to keep our draft picks and add a free agent (or 2) without trading everything away
Cerrato will look different (especially to naysayers like me) if some of our recent acquisitions start to make this team better.
Zorn may show that he is a HC
Campbell may show that he is a capable QB

I still think we are an average team at best but if we can keep on the path and rebuild this offense to go along with the defense that we look like having here, we are not far away from being a contender each year, not just the mediocre team we have become under this leadership.

Snyder is not nearly as bad an owner as he is made out to be and he just needs to show a little more patience - we all have to hope for a lot of things to go right here this year

VetSkinsFan wrote:So because I see there are flaws in Gibbs, I'm ungrateful? If you'd pop your head out of your fourth point of contact, you'd see that what I have to say has merit.

If you say so it must be true.

I'm not going to argue with blind fanatics...

APOLOGISTS do not need to argue anything. Al they need to do is line up a long list of apologies sustainable or not and blame about anybody else, players, coaches even fellow fans, anybody else will do.

As long as the snake oil lasts, drink and enjoy!

Redskin in Canada wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:So because I see there are flaws in Gibbs, I'm ungrateful? If you'd pop your head out of your fourth point of contact, you'd see that what I have to say has merit.

If you say so it must be true.

I'm not going to argue with blind fanatics...

APOLOGISTS do not need to argue anything. Al they need to do is line up a long list of apologies sustainable or not and blame about anybody else, players, coaches even fellow fans, anybody else will do.

As long as the snake oil lasts, drink and enjoy!

I've never been an apologist for JC, the FO, or the owner, OR JOE JACKSON GIBBS. I call it like I see it. As an offensive guy, his offense was subpar the second go around. That's not hard to see. If Gibbs has Dannyboi wrapped around his finger as some people suggest, why couldn't Gibbs get consistant in FOUR YEARS? riddle me that, oh righteous one...

I've always felt that Joe Gibbs was in bed with Danny just a smudge too much for my liking. I feel that he brought about some change but also solidified some things that need changing. WHen Gibbs arrival I thought we would be done with Vinny and this stupid FO structure, I prayed we would go to a more traditional structure backed by Danny's big pockets. Sadly, Joe embraced Danny's ways because he had been out of the game for so long.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I've always felt that Joe Gibbs was in bed with Danny just a smudge too much for my liking. I feel that he brought about some change but also solidified some things that need changing. WHen Gibbs arrival I thought we would be done with Vinny and this stupid FO structure, I prayed we would go to a more traditional structure backed by Danny's big pockets. Sadly, Joe embraced Danny's ways because he had been out of the game for so long.

It sounds like you're becoming an apologist to me

I feel priveleged to have been able to witness him as a HC. I feel that with the proper backing, he would have had even more success here. Joe was rusty when it came to todays NFL. The things that made him legendary didn't change with time but the nuances of the game did. IMO Joe had idiots backing him up... If Joe had a good GM backing him and an owner who could leave NFL busines to NFL minds, he would have been put into a position to succeed further. My problem with Danny right now is that he's out to prove to the world he isn't an idiot.

IF Danny takes his hand out of the jar, he proves his detractors right especially if it results in success. But he's so frickin arrogant and spiteful that he won't take his hand out of the jar. He's going to keep doing his thing until he strikes gold, just so he can say "I told you so!". He wants to have the last laugh and its at our expense. To me, that's not an owner who loves the team or is grateful to the fans. That's an owner that charges money to watch a team practice.... He's a jerk, I can't stand him but I do give him credit for changing however grudgingly it may be...

I enjoy the fact that this stuff eats at his soul...because for those of his who love this team, his stupid actions eat at us. I don't Snyder loves or appreciates me anymore than I think Micrsoft loves me for buying a Xbox. He cares about my money and to him, I flip the bird.

Fios wrote:

Countertrey wrote:I just don't know how to take seriously someone who's last name is "Sucks".

There are plenty here whom express their profound displeasure with Snyder. None have elected to make it their personna.

That said, it appears to me that Snyder has made significant strides in managing his aggressive pursuit of the big name. No longer is he pursuing the has been's of the league. When he procures a name now, it is generally a player in his prime... Jason Taylor can be explained by the panic that occured when 2 DE's went down immediately at the opening of camp.

Your shots at players such as Orakpo, and Thomas, who give no reason to really be concerned regarding injury, are really a significant reach.

Sucks is a statement of fact, not a name. It will change when he changes or we get a new owner.

I'm as excited about Orakpo as anyone, and am really rooting for him. That said, he does have an injury history - he suffered knee injuries in each of the two years he was a starter. Read a draft scouting report and the first line when the get to the negatives is going to be "questions about durability." or something similar.

Thomas gives no reason for concern? Are you kidding? He missed huge amounts of the preseason last year, which contributed to his terrible year. This year the same injury has already re-appeared and caused him to miss time after practicing once.

I agree that spending big on younger free agents is better than spending big on older free agents. But spending that big on any player can cause problems. We spent so much on a couple of guys that they can only offer veteran minimum and are missing out on several available players that could help the team. Also, the last time they spent a bunch of money - the Archuletta, Lloyd, Randle-El class - it was for young players and it hurt team chemistry because others were jealous of the contracts. We've already got one player publicly unhappy with his contract, and a QB who has been publicly undermined. How many others are quietly unhappy?

If they play to the level that deserves to get paid, then they will get paid. Rock was unhappy with his contract, wanting 3M a year for a safe, but non-explosive return man. It's not always about what they want..market value has a finger in the pot.

And actually, SnyderSucks would be a statement of opinion. You can throw out factoids to support your opinion, but it's just that, opinion. It may even be a popular opinion, but so was the opinion that the world was flat at one time...

Far be it from me to defend DS but you have no way of knowing that players are "jealous" of other player’s contracts. I'd argue to the contrary...I think most players are happy for other players who get big contracts, save for the players that are playing at a high level i.e… Champ Bailey and he exercise his right to FA and got a nice contract.

Redskin in Canada wrote:From the COMPLETE DISARRAY left behind by Spurrier to two Post-Season appearances with what can be called a TEAM for the first time during the ownership of this clown and with the tremendous disadvantage of disastrous recruitment???

You mean the disastrous recruitment that he and his coaching staff primarily were responsible for?

Mark Brunell: Gibbs pick.
Brandon Lloyd: Al Saunders pick.
Adam Archuleta: Gregg Williams pick.

Letting Antonio Pierce go? Gregg Williams choice.

PulpExposure wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:From the COMPLETE DISARRAY left behind by Spurrier to two Post-Season appearances with what can be called a TEAM for the first time during the ownership of this clown and with the tremendous disadvantage of disastrous recruitment???

You mean the disastrous recruitment that he and his coaching staff primarily were responsible for?

Mark Brunell: Gibbs pick.
Brandon Lloyd: Al Saunders pick.
Adam Archuleta: Gregg Williams pick.

Letting Antonio Pierce go? Gregg Williams choice.

MB....he was just too old but it's a gamble, Kurt is old and still had some left in the tank. I was never high on MB but eh, I dunno.

Lloyd, entirely Gibbs fault. Coulda been more productive here, he got blacklisted.

Adam, LMAO yeah that was terrible. LOL

AP, another mistake.

Joe Gibbs was the HC and Team President.

Dan Snyder stepped back and let Gibbs make the calls. It is very apparent that Snyder was willing to give Gibbs whatever he needed to win. Gibbs admitted as much several times throughout his tenure, and even when announcing his retirement.

If Gibbs felt he needed a GM, Gibbs could have gotten one at anytime. It would seem to me that he didn't want or feel like he needed one.

Gibbs was allowed to pick his coordinators, his coaches, his players; anything he wanted. I truly believe that if Gibbs had marched into Snyders office and said "Vinny ain't cuttin' it" Snyder would have been on the phone less than a heartbeat later telling Cerrato to pack his bags.

Don't think so? He fired him for Marty, why wouldn't he for Gibbs?

DEHog wrote:Far be it from me to defend DS but you have no way of knowing that players are "jealous" of other player’s contracts. I'd argue to the contrary...I think most players are happy for other players who get big contracts, save for the players that are playing at a high level i.e… Champ Bailey and he exercise his right to FA and got a nice contract.

I don't have any knowledge of current players being jealous, but there is lots of evidence of it happening in the past. There were numerous stories after the season of Lloyd, Archuletta, and Randle El, when they let Pierce and Smoot go. The players in the locker room felt that Snyder would pay big for players on other teams, but not pay the players on his own team. The post mortem on that season was that the locker room chemistry from the previous season had been destroyed and that the players didn't buy into Saunders system. He signed Haynesworth to a massive contract while failing to offer our "best" DE from last year even a modest one. Evans was no world beater, but better than anyone else on the roster last season.

Not saying that it will happen, just concerned because that is what happened the last time he did this.

Bob 0119 wrote:He fired him for Marty, why wouldn't he for Gibbs?

Actually Marty fired him, himself, and The Danny hired him back after he fired Marty.

SnyderSucks wrote:

DEHog wrote:Far be it from me to defend DS but you have no way of knowing that players are "jealous" of other player’s contracts. I'd argue to the contrary...I think most players are happy for other players who get big contracts, save for the players that are playing at a high level i.e… Champ Bailey and he exercise his right to FA and got a nice contract.

I don't have any knowledge of current players being jealous, but there is lots of evidence of it happening in the past. There were numerous stories after the season of Lloyd, Archuletta, and Randle El, when they let Pierce and Smoot go. The players in the locker room felt that Snyder would pay big for players on other teams, but not pay the players on his own team. The post mortem on that season was that the locker room chemistry from the previous season had been destroyed and that the players didn't buy into Saunders system. He signed Haynesworth to a massive contract while failing to offer our "best" DE from last year even a modest one. Evans was no world beater, but better than anyone else on the roster last season.

Not saying that it will happen, just concerned because that is what happened the last time he did this.

Sorry SS, but Evans is in no way better than Carter.

COuld you illustrate a few of these 'numerous stories' and show us some of the 'lots of evidence' that you have? I was out of the country for some of that time...enlighten me.

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:He fired him for Marty, why wouldn't he for Gibbs?

Actually Marty fired him, himself, and The Danny hired him back after he fired Marty.

So how does this contradict my hypothesis that Gibbs could have made Cerrato go away if he wanted to?

Bob 0119 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:He fired him for Marty, why wouldn't he for Gibbs?

Actually Marty fired him, himself, and The Danny hired him back after he fired Marty.

So how does this contradict my hypothesis that Gibbs could have made Cerrato go away if he wanted to?

He def could have but wouldn't have. Gibbs was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO freaking grateful to Danny that he wouldn't do that. Gibbs felt that the structure was fine and he liked it, but that doesn't mean it was a good thing. He'd been out of the game for so long that he was looking for as much help as he could get.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:He fired him for Marty, why wouldn't he for Gibbs?

Actually Marty fired him, himself, and The Danny hired him back after he fired Marty.

So how does this contradict my hypothesis that Gibbs could have made Cerrato go away if he wanted to?

He def could have but wouldn't have. Gibbs was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO freaking grateful to Danny that he wouldn't do that. Gibbs felt that the structure was fine and he liked it, but that doesn't mean it was a good thing. He'd been out of the game for so long that he was looking for as much help as he could get.

I guess maybe you're right, I mean Gibbs had been crawling around Redskins park for years trying to get his old coaching job back that when he finally got it, he wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize it.

Let's say you're right, that he didn't want to get rid of Cerrato because he "needed all the help he could get."

He didn't exactly go out of his way to recruit anyone or even discuss bringing in anyone who could've remotely threatend Cerrato for the position.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

DEHog wrote:Far be it from me to defend DS but you have no way of knowing that players are "jealous" of other player’s contracts. I'd argue to the contrary...I think most players are happy for other players who get big contracts, save for the players that are playing at a high level i.e… Champ Bailey and he exercise his right to FA and got a nice contract.

I don't have any knowledge of current players being jealous, but there is lots of evidence of it happening in the past. There were numerous stories after the season of Lloyd, Archuletta, and Randle El, when they let Pierce and Smoot go. The players in the locker room felt that Snyder would pay big for players on other teams, but not pay the players on his own team. The post mortem on that season was that the locker room chemistry from the previous season had been destroyed and that the players didn't buy into Saunders system. He signed Haynesworth to a massive contract while failing to offer our "best" DE from last year even a modest one. Evans was no world beater, but better than anyone else on the roster last season.

Not saying that it will happen, just concerned because that is what happened the last time he did this.

Sorry SS, but Evans is in no way better than Carter.

COuld you illustrate a few of these 'numerous stories' and show us some of the 'lots of evidence' that you have? I was out of the country for some of that time...enlighten me.

Carter might be more talented than Evans but their productions was very similar last season. Carter started 14 games and played in 16, recording 37 tackles and 4 sacks. In 11 starts, Evans had 3.5 sacks and 33 tackles.

DEHog wrote:Sorry SS, but Evans is in no way better than Carter.

COuld you illustrate a few of these 'numerous stories' and show us some of the 'lots of evidence' that you have? I was out of the country for some of that time...enlighten me.

I put "best" in quotes because I don't really think best either. He did have more sacks last year and plays the run better. Good depth guy and spot starter who wasn't even offered a medium contract.

The Post did a series of article at the time. You have to go into the archives to see them now, and pay. Also lots of mentions on the Redskins Insider Blog that don't appear to be in the archive. There were also articles later when they failed to re-sign Dockery prior to free agency and lost him to that big contract in Buffalo. Here are a couple:

Archives:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonp ... rt=560&id=

Story about Chemistry:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonp ... ed+in+.+.+.

Story about Saunders offense:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonp ... e+Believed

SnyderSucks wrote:There were also articles later when they failed to re-sign Dockery prior to free agency and lost him to that big contract in Buffalo.

It would have been idiotic to match that contract. Not matching it was a very good move by the FO.

SnyderSucks wrote:

DEHog wrote:Sorry SS, but Evans is in no way better than Carter.

COuld you illustrate a few of these 'numerous stories' and show us some of the 'lots of evidence' that you have? I was out of the country for some of that time...enlighten me.

I put "best" in quotes because I don't really think best either. He did have more sacks last year and plays the run better. Good depth guy and spot starter who wasn't even offered a medium contract.

The Post did a series of article at the time. You have to go into the archives to see them now, and pay. Also lots of mentions on the Redskins Insider Blog that don't appear to be in the archive. There were also articles later when they failed to re-sign Dockery prior to free agency and lost him to that big contract in Buffalo. Here are a couple:

Archives:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonp ... rt=560&id=

Story about Chemistry:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonp ... ed+in+.+.+.

Story about Saunders offense:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonp ... e+Believed

Articles from over two years ago that seem to be less flattering to Gibbs than Snyder (though because it was JLC, you know he's gonna get his dig in on Snyder at every opportunity)?

Are you secretly JLC?

I ask because it's starting to come together for me now.

I firmly believe JLC says something disparaging about Daniel Snyder at every opportunity.

JLC: "I'll have the number three....with a coke"

Drive Up Window box: "Will there be anything else?"

JLC: "Yeah, Dan Snyder sucks."

See, it's starting to make sense to me now.

JLC: "Can I use my press credential as a form of Student ID?"

Movie Theatre Box Office: "Uh, no sir, it's for college students only."

JLC: "That's just another example of a bad move by the front office."

I'd be willing to bet I can even tell you how he answers his phone at the Post

JLC: "Washington Post, Redskins Insider Desk, Jason LaCanfora speaking and Dan Snyder sucks."

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think I'm right!

Historically, Snyder is pretty awful. He has been promising lately, however. He's signing guys that will immediately make the team more formidable, so he's actually doing his job now. That's more than I can say for Davis and Ford...

dongarisano wrote:Historically, Snyder is pretty awful. He has been promising lately, however. He's signing guys that will immediately make the team more formidable, so he's actually doing his job now. That's more than I can say for Davis and Ford...

That's part of the problem.

DEHog wrote:

Are you secretly JLC?

Nope, although I might have to start answering the phone in the manner you suggest!

If I had JLC's job, I would probably already have been fired for using the blog to organize Anti-Snyder rallys at Redskins Park.